Lessons learned in the transition from in-person to online from The Girl Gang

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TRANSCRIPTION WITH SPEAKERS
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[00:00] SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Canada's podcast.
[00:05] SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Canada's podcast. I'm your host, Celine Williams.
[00:09] SPEAKER_00: And today, my guests are Katie Conliffe and Jenny Shaw, the co-owners of the Girl Gang Canada,
[00:15] SPEAKER_00: which is an online collective of small women-owned Canadian businesses.
[00:19] SPEAKER_00: The Girl Gang was founded in 2018, and since then has grown to 100 female entrepreneurs and business owners from across the country.
[00:27] SPEAKER_00: Katie and Jenny, welcome.
[00:28] SPEAKER_01: Hello.
[00:30] SPEAKER_00: I'm very excited to talk to you. I think your business idea is super cool.
[00:34] SPEAKER_00: And of course, I want to start with the, you know, how did this come together? What's the story behind how Girl Gang was founded and where you are at now?
[00:46] SPEAKER_01: So, I'm Katie. I started with a, I still have an act shop, so I own another business on the side where I do custom signs.
[00:56] SPEAKER_01: That started when I was in college, and there was, bought the first home, was pregnant, in school, and made everyone Christmas gifts.
[01:10] SPEAKER_01: And it kind of spun into, can you make me this? Can you make me this? And a Facebook account was started, a business account.
[01:18] SPEAKER_01: And that was about eight years ago. I started selling after that into a local shop in Sarnia, and learned my first business struggles.
[01:32] SPEAKER_01: So I was selling in the store on consignment, which was all brand new to me.
[01:39] SPEAKER_01: About eight months in, I wasn't getting payment from the shop.
[01:44] SPEAKER_01: So a group of us didn't get paid things happen like that. Big, big lesson learned there.
[01:54] SPEAKER_01: And we kind of grouped together and started our own little consignment shop. That was transparent and integral.
[02:04] SPEAKER_01: And we just didn't want those things to happen and teach people, like there is more behind business than, you know, just selling and you got to look out for yourself and protect yourself.
[02:15] SPEAKER_01: And that's kind of how it all started.
[02:19] SPEAKER_00: Cool. Jenny, do you want to share a little bit of your story as well?
[02:23] SPEAKER_01: Sure. Katie and I are really good friends. We've been good friends since high school.
[02:31] SPEAKER_01: And I was falling along when she launched, it was your local girl gang when they first launched and when that happened, like, avid supporter, you know, always in the shop because it was the coolest shop in Sarnia.
[02:46] SPEAKER_01: And because my background is in content management, digital marketing and more predominantly so in social media management.
[02:55] SPEAKER_01: And I think you guys were alive for like a year. You had been running the business for about a year where I stepped in and I was like, look, I can help.
[03:05] SPEAKER_01: So stepped in fully as a partner just over a year ago, right around when COVID hit and locally with my background, I was like, hey, let's make this digital.
[03:18] SPEAKER_01: We did some business shifts and decided to go nationwide and hit, you know, like an online marketplace rather than just in store, which happened about the same time where we had to close the store because of the pandemic.
[03:34] SPEAKER_01: So yeah, since then, you know, taking it from like a small local consignment based shop to an online digital marketplace that supports vendors from across Canada has been kind of a really cool experience and we're just growing and learning a lot along the way.
[03:57] SPEAKER_00: So I'm curious the the I have so many questions. I think a lot of people who listen to this can really relate to having a bricks and mortar store restaurant business, whatever it is of some sort that often out of necessity in the past year has had to shift online, even if they were sort of thinking about doing it at some point in the future.
[04:23] SPEAKER_00: So I'm curious for the two of you because you have different perspectives on it, right?
[04:31] SPEAKER_00: You know, Katie, your background is really more with the bricks and mortar and Jenny and yours is really more online.
[04:37] SPEAKER_00: What what are the challenges or what have been the challenges or lessons on either side of that?
[04:42] SPEAKER_00: So, you know, in not I mean, yes, in the past year, primarily because of the pandemic, but sort of in general, what are what have been your challenges or lessons in that in those spaces.
[04:55] SPEAKER_01: The shift in sales, like 100% we sold a lot of clothing in store, which you can try on and look at and touch, whereas when we went online, it kind of flipped what we were selling and it was like, okay, wait a minute.
[05:11] SPEAKER_01: Now we have to figure it a way to support clothing and maintain sales there that aren't there anymore because people can't have access to that.
[05:23] SPEAKER_01: Right.
[05:25] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think definitely learning what works on each side of things.
[05:32] SPEAKER_01: So like when you get foot traffic in a brick and mortar shop, you got people that are, it's tangible, right?
[05:38] SPEAKER_01: Like you're picking up products, you're smelling stuff, you're trying on stuff, you can browse.
[05:43] SPEAKER_01: And Katie and I always say like the person that's coming in the store for a $20 item is going to walk away with $100 worth of merch because they're like, oh my gosh, like this is an experience.
[05:54] SPEAKER_01: This is, I love the store and what Katie's done with the physical store has been truly amazing, like making it, making it that experience.
[06:05] SPEAKER_01: So when we went digital, we're like, well, how do we support that experience?
[06:08] SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, building an e-commerce platform, first of all, was a learning curve, like right off the bat.
[06:15] SPEAKER_01: We went Shopify and that was that for the platform we wanted to build.
[06:19] SPEAKER_01: That was something that we probably shouldn't have done. We probably should have shifted newcomers.
[06:26] SPEAKER_01: And you know, didn't do our, well, like I didn't do my due diligence there. I was just like, yeah, Shopify, this is cool.
[06:34] SPEAKER_01: This looks easy and effortless to put together, which it is. And I think for a small brand, Shopify is an amazing platform and can support a small vendor.
[06:42] SPEAKER_01: But we learned, I think within six months that like navigation, when you're supporting over 100 brands is like, you need to customize that.
[06:52] SPEAKER_01: And you need to make sure that you have an expert building that website that can support, you know, how the customers journey through that online experience, because it is so much different than the brick and mortar experience.
[07:05] SPEAKER_01: So I think that was like a huge shift going from like brick and mortar to e-commerce to like replicate the experience while still like showcasing, you know, a thousand.
[07:20] SPEAKER_01: And then also like capturing those customers when you have the online store or sorry, the physical store.
[07:31] SPEAKER_01: You got people returning because of whatever reason, but like, how do you get them to return to your store when you're online is huge and making sure that you have like a system is in place to do that.
[07:43] SPEAKER_01: So like building a really strong email list, like what are you, what incentives are you offering to make people say, yeah, like I want to sign up for your deals and offers and.
[07:53] SPEAKER_01: So I think those are like two of the biggest learning curves that we experienced and still experience today, like we're constantly making adjustments to our website.
[08:05] SPEAKER_01: I'm never pleased with it. I'm always like, let's change that, but I'm a strategist at heart. So it's, I'm always changing my mind.
[08:16] SPEAKER_01: Our cards online, you can see people add, you know, 16 things and then take away 10, whereas in store, you're buying all 16 things.
[08:26] SPEAKER_01: You're like, oh, not questioning it, you know, you're here, you're there, you're now is like you're buying it, you know.
[08:32] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I would imagine that the, and I don't know, I'm not making assumption about your in store return policy, but I imagine the fact that people are unsure about returns when they're buying online and they're unsure how complex, how complex it could be because sometimes it's really complicated.
[08:49] SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it not, sometimes people have returned policies, sometimes they don't. I would imagine that that has a significantly different.
[08:59] SPEAKER_00: Customer like experience to be thought through entirely online versus in store.
[09:05] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, our shipping has been like, we're like, whoa, because we have hurt like a free pick up location with the pandemic. We're like, okay, we're online.
[09:17] SPEAKER_01: Like we need to have the people who are strong customer based, which is our local city, Sarnia, Ontario.
[09:24] SPEAKER_01: Like they need to be able to pick it up like instantly, but then setting it up online, we're like, what do we do.
[09:31] SPEAKER_01: So it's been, and there's so many things to think about that we just like online retention tactics, like, you know, abandoned cart checkouts and like re-targeting being like, hey, like we saw you see, we saw you take a peek at that.
[09:44] SPEAKER_01: Like these are some other things, you know, just like there's just a lot to think about, which we had no experience in when we shifted, but it's been cool. Like we've we're getting there.
[09:57] SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
[09:58] SPEAKER_01: Thanks.
[09:59] SPEAKER_00: I think that's always the case, right? Like it's like you're figuring it out. It doesn't have to, it's not about being perfect, right?
[10:09] SPEAKER_00: No one is doing this perfectly. It's just doing their best and figuring it out.
[10:15] SPEAKER_01: And everything changes so quickly. You just have to be adaptable.
[10:18] SPEAKER_00: Yeah. Yeah. I think that's a really good point.
[10:23] SPEAKER_00: Okay. So I want to take a step back for a second and ask this question. So Jenny, you mentioned that your background was in sort of digital marketing.
[10:29] SPEAKER_00: Um, we're, and Katie, it sounds like you've been entrepreneurial, whether it was your primary thing for a long time.
[10:37] SPEAKER_00: So did either of you or both of you always think at some point, I want to own a business and I want to be an entrepreneur and already you're like shaking your head, you're like, no.
[10:47] SPEAKER_00: So can you tell me a little bit about what got you to that point or what made you decide like to or take the plunge?
[10:54] SPEAKER_00: Because sometimes it's not so much deciding as being like, this is, this is my opportunity.
[10:59] SPEAKER_01: I think it's exciting. A little bit. It is kind of excited, unknown and then learning about like business.
[11:07] SPEAKER_01: There's so much to learn. There is not a day that goes by. Then I'm like, oh, okay.
[11:12] SPEAKER_01: Okay. And grow and grow on top of that and grow on top of that. It is a different world.
[11:18] SPEAKER_01: I'm totally, but it is a really interesting one.
[11:23] SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
[11:25] SPEAKER_01: Yeah. Just like from starting from making something to creating an Instagram and then making a sale is like a base.
[11:35] SPEAKER_01: And then it's like, okay, now I have overhead. Now I need marketing. Now I need this. Now I need an accountant. Now I need you know, and it's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
[11:43] SPEAKER_01: And learning all of that. And then it's nice to have the first business and having kind of as a learning experience and then girl gang and being like, hey, I've kind of, you know, polish my area and this.
[11:56] SPEAKER_01: And so that's helpful. And then creating something larger than what began yet sucked into it.
[12:05] Speaker UNKNOWN: Yeah.
[12:07] SPEAKER_01: You do. I think you get sucked into the entrepreneurial journey and then you figure out whether or not it's right for you. I've never been the nine to five.
[12:17] SPEAKER_01: Like I've never saw myself in an office. I, I started in the, well, Katie and I actually both started in the food service industry as servers bartenders.
[12:28] SPEAKER_01: And then I went to school for nutrition. And when I left school got pregnant. And I think Katie, you actually have a very similar story, but got pregnant. And while I was pregnant, I had just left the food service industry. And I was like, what do I do right now.
[12:44] SPEAKER_01: So I started a blog which turned into content management and product promotion and loved it. Like I loved writing. I loved, I loved promoting small brands. Like I've always been kind of connected to the food industry, which for my content agency.
[13:04] SPEAKER_01: It's, it's like wellness and food brands and apps for some reason. But and from there shifted into content management. I was like, oh, this is for me.
[13:17] SPEAKER_01: Like I could, I don't think I could, I mean, I would go back to not running a business. If that's what life had in store for me. Like if something happened and I had to give up my business, I would go back into like the marketing industry.
[13:31] SPEAKER_01: But I work for an agency, but I, it wouldn't be by choice. It would kind of be like, ah, this is what you have to do. Like this is the next step for you. I love running my own business. It is hard. It is so hard.
[13:49] SPEAKER_01: And I love like partnering with my best friend to run the Girl Gang Canada, which is also hard. But I don't know if I'd have it any other way. No, I don't think that night. But it is.
[14:08] SPEAKER_00: Are there unique challenges I'm guessing there are, but how do you balance being best friends and running a business? Like how does that work? Cause I would imagine that sometimes it's uniquely extra challenging.
[14:24] SPEAKER_01: Um, I think because we both have families and kids is literally like, it's no, hey, what's up? How are you? How is it? It's like, hey, I have two seconds. Like what do you need?
[14:36] SPEAKER_01: And we understand that on that level, which is great because we actually like live in separate worlds. Like she's digital arm and chop. And if we need to talk to each other, we talk to each other, but we only have like a minute.
[14:48] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we have separate strengths. And I think that building any partnership is like you get really got to pull out what your strengths are and say, okay, this is what we're doing. But just like from a business, some strategy point of view, when we first kicked this off, my husband's also involved in like the financial side of things. But when we, he's, he's a really good like analyst. But when we kicked it off, we all the three of us sat down and said,
[15:18] SPEAKER_01: these are what each individual roles are. And they overlap sometimes. But if they overlap, like it's all an agreement, like we're not going to fight and argue about it. We're just going to like be, we're going to put our business hats on and say, okay, this isn't personal. It's business. And like, let's just let's work this out. And I think the three of us are all pretty adaptable. You know, like we try our hardest to make sure that we're like on each other.
[15:47] SPEAKER_01: So there's page and like looking at it from all angles, whatever the problem might be and say, okay, like let's come up with the solution. So I think that being having your own lane as a partner is important.
[16:00] SPEAKER_01: Yeah. And trusting each other, like I just trust that what Jenny's doing is the best way. And she trust that what I'm doing is the best way to. And then if we have questions, we like talk it out.
[16:10] SPEAKER_01: I'm sure we'll have like in the future. We like have a different answer for now. It's it's perfect.
[16:19] SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
[16:20] SPEAKER_00: I think that's a really important point, though, is we don't always think about I think it's really easy for business partners to be like, well, we think and do the exact same thing. So we get along so easily.
[16:31] SPEAKER_00: Let's just partner together and it's going to be easy because we are the exact same.
[16:37] SPEAKER_00: And I think your point is really valid that that it's really I see this when I work with teams that that diversity that actually having different strengths is the most important thing in order for for any team to be effective.
[16:53] SPEAKER_00: And that's that's what I'm hearing inside what you're saying is like that matters. And Katie to what you said trusting each other, right? Like you have to at the end of the day, even if you weren't like best friends and you didn't like each other, if you trusted each other because you knew that the other person cared as much as you do or whatever the case may be, then that's I think really important as well.
[17:16] SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
[17:20] SPEAKER_00: So I am curious as you continue to grow the girl gang across Canada and think about the future of what you all are working on. What does that like what do you have up your sleeves? What are you thinking about?
[17:31] SPEAKER_01: We're the limits here.
[17:36] SPEAKER_01: We just had a pop up shop over the first day.
[17:41] SPEAKER_01: So it's like new goals.
[17:43] SPEAKER_01: We just spent the weekend hashing out a new strategy.
[17:47] SPEAKER_01: But I think like one of our primary focuses for the future is having our own line.
[17:55] SPEAKER_01: So we're just thinking like what do what do what do you have like what Katie said the whole person. I know we were talking about that earlier, but he's like what do we what is a woman having her purse? I'm like nail file like this that like we're just like let's do a really cool, edgy girl gang line where people are like, yeah, I need I need one of those.
[18:16] SPEAKER_01: And how are we supporting and building our vendors helping them grow. And I think another thing is just kind of like what impact we want to have in the community and what.
[18:33] SPEAKER_01: What like nonprofits and stuff we want to be affiliated with because there's so many of them out there, but you know, you can't.
[18:42] SPEAKER_01: Unfortunately, you can't support them all because there's just too many, but what one's really aligned with like our message and how can we better support our community is like going to be huge focus for the end of 2021.
[18:56] SPEAKER_01: I don't know if I'm missing anything Katie.
[18:59] SPEAKER_01: There's a there's so many.
[19:00] SPEAKER_01: I get creative. I'm like, I want it all.
[19:05] SPEAKER_01: I want to put on everything, but we'll get there. And one of the big things like when it first started, I really, really wanted franchise stores.
[19:16] SPEAKER_01: So that these products are in actual physical stores across Canada, but that's a longer term goal, but that would be so cool.
[19:25] SPEAKER_01: Or an app to find this near you are the closest like, you know, girl gang certify shop or whatever, you know what I mean.
[19:36] SPEAKER_01: So those are definitely goals that we've got to get through this year and get our store open is like.
[19:43] SPEAKER_01: I've been talking a lot about it like earlier as mentioned that that experience of in store versus online.
[19:50] SPEAKER_01: So we've been talking a lot about how to make the in store experience, complement the online experience and what kind of technologies we can bring into the store that to make it just like.
[20:00] SPEAKER_01: Like a really cool place to hang out where people from even we live on a border city.
[20:07] SPEAKER_01: So we're like, oh, how can we get Americans talking about that little shop in Canada, little shop across the border that has like all of these really cool things where you can just go in and like.
[20:18] SPEAKER_01: Instagram were these store and just be like, yes, I need to shop there like yes, I need to like go even if it's just like a visit like how are we supporting.
[20:25] SPEAKER_01: You know consumers who just like want to check out the store so.
[20:33] SPEAKER_01: Yeah trying to figure all that out is learning curve but.
[20:38] SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's it's such a strange year to be trying to figure some of these pieces out.
[20:46] SPEAKER_00: I'd imagine given who knows when things are going to open again at this point who knows when people are going to be able to be back in like it's.
[20:53] SPEAKER_00: Just a really strange time and I fully appreciate that because that's a really specific challenge for bricks and mortars.
[21:03] SPEAKER_01: You bricks order where is the economy going to be sitting at when we do open yeah also it's a lot of.
[21:13] SPEAKER_00: Up in the air yeah like yeah.
[21:17] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I get I totally appreciate that.
[21:21] SPEAKER_00: I want to ask this question because you mentioned something about the vendor the vendors I don't know why I was saying that such in such a strange way the vendors that are in store on platform.
[21:31] SPEAKER_00: How do you how have you thus far.
[21:34] SPEAKER_00: Found the the the the people that are on your platform were in your store like how has this come together really curious about that because I would imagine that.
[21:45] SPEAKER_00: Creating that community and collective is not simply as easy as going like hey are you a woman who or female identifying person who owns a business come jump on our I'm guessing it's not quite that easy.
[22:00] SPEAKER_01: We've been lucky because we so we have a member application form on our website.
[22:07] SPEAKER_01: And a lot of times we just get applications rolling in like I say we get way to few every week.
[22:17] SPEAKER_01: We have to vet them so one of our major requirements is you have to have a business license because a lot of times we get people who are just doing crafts and we can't support that on the store because we have to have consistent products for.
[22:33] SPEAKER_01: Yes, I think our social media is growing pretty fast and we tend to get a lot of our.
[22:43] SPEAKER_01: We have a lot of our vendors sharing our platform like if they're calling out a new stock is they'll share in their stories and a lot of vendors follow other vendors and in the it's just like a huge community so I think our name kind of gets out there by tapping into other audiences.
[23:00] SPEAKER_01: But other than that we are working on kind of growing a little bit faster which would require us to find vendors as well and Instagram is like where it's at you know just searching hashtags and kind of figuring out what what niche.
[23:22] SPEAKER_01: Like areas in our online shop we need to fill and what's trending so like finding trending products whether it's like you know ceramic I don't know pop holders or something like that like trying to figure out where you know what tick talk is saying for like small businesses and being like okay like we can fit that niche.
[23:45] SPEAKER_01: But yeah we've been lucky we've been lucky that people are just applying.
[23:50] SPEAKER_00: That's awesome I think that's a that's a and it's and I'm not remotely surprised that something like Instagram is big for the girl gang because it's such a just a visual component when there's products involved right like it's like it's a really wonderful space to get to play in.
[24:07] SPEAKER_00: Before we wrap this up I'd love to ask this question which is fully selfish for the audience if you had to give a piece of advice to yourself 10 years ago or five years ago I don't you know whenever you sort of were starting your whether it's career entrepreneurial journey what would you go back and tell yourself.
[24:27] SPEAKER_01: If there is a fear tablet because that is the most reward you will get like doing a podcast I remember the first one I was sweating.
[24:39] SPEAKER_01: I was sweating.
[24:40] SPEAKER_01: I do this and and then I got over I did it and I was like that wasn't bad it was good it was good right like it it's all these little fears you have in yourself and it's like just.
[24:51] SPEAKER_01: Tackle it go for it what's the worst that could happen it sucks you lose you learn something from it like those fears are your stepping stones to success.
[25:02] SPEAKER_01: Yeah that's a good one.
[25:07] SPEAKER_01: I'm okay so personally I would say like.
[25:13] SPEAKER_01: Imposter syndrome is pretty real and it kind of aligns with what Katie saying like you know you're constantly judging yourself based off of what other people are doing like that's not going to get you far at all and I've been trying to like master like when really recognizing when imposter syndrome is like kicking and and being like okay no today's just like you know those are in intrusive thoughts like you'll get that out of your head in the day or so.
[25:43] SPEAKER_01: But in terms of like building a business I would say do the investment upfront don't like nickel and dime your and this is just from like you know being like I'll just do it myself and then spending 150 hours on a project where it's like you know what I could have just dropped a thousand dollars and got that done fast and like buy an expert.
[26:06] SPEAKER_01: And I see this problem a lot just like with my other business but it's worth it like investing in your logo investing in your brand investing in a strategy or having like a business coach is one where where we see like a lot of small businesses be like I just can't get it and like higher business coach because they will help you get it or like you know a marketing strategist or a marketing team behind you social media manager I think like investing and like you know what I'm saying is like a lot of things like that.
[26:36] SPEAKER_01: Like that in your investment by being like okay I've talked to a lot of businesses and I've talked to a lot of like marketing managers or strategists or whatever and like this is who I align with the most and like really making sure that you're not just like being like yeah I just want the cheapest one.
[26:51] SPEAKER_01: I think is an important thing off the bat and I know it's hard saying this for a lot of small businesses that don't have the capital behind them but it's I just that's like one of my biggest things if I could go back and just say you know I'm not going to do it.
[27:06] SPEAKER_01: I'm going to invest $15,000 in my brand and that's a business investment because I know I'll get the return back that's what I would do.
[27:15] SPEAKER_00: Yeah I appreciate that.
[27:18] SPEAKER_00: Thank you both for joining me today for all of our listeners and viewers you can the links will be in the show notes but you can also find the girl gang online at the girl gang dot CA.
[27:29] SPEAKER_00: I appreciate your time it was lovely chatting with you.
[27:33] SPEAKER_01: You too.