Why the Lightning Network is key to scaling bitcoin trading

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[00:00] SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Canada's podcast.
[00:05] SPEAKER_00: This is Angela Fae from Canada's podcast.
[00:08] SPEAKER_00: Today we are speaking with Sean Anstey, founder and CEO of LQWD
[00:12] SPEAKER_00: pronounced liquid.
[00:13] SPEAKER_00: The first publicly traded, purpose-built Bitcoin company that's focused on solutions
[00:17] SPEAKER_00: that power the growth of the Bitcoin Lightning network.
[00:20] SPEAKER_00: Let's get straight into speaking with Sean.
[00:22] SPEAKER_01: I don't know if you know a little bit about myself, a little background.
[00:24] SPEAKER_01: I'll talk more of the tech side.
[00:25] SPEAKER_01: And certainly my background, I mean tech for home appliances, the mid to late late 90s.
[00:30] SPEAKER_01: And being an internet technology is and worked on, we've found it a company then and we
[00:34] SPEAKER_01: survived the dot com.
[00:34] SPEAKER_01: We came out the other stuff much younger and all those experiences I've made us who we
[00:38] SPEAKER_01: are today.
[00:39] SPEAKER_01: But I've been involved in crypto and Bitcoin since 2012.
[00:42] SPEAKER_01: So I'm not new to the space, not into tech.
[00:45] SPEAKER_01: And my other company is called Big Digital Assets, B-I-G-G on the CSE.
[00:50] SPEAKER_01: It owns netcoins.ca, which is one of Canada's largest crypto exchanges and is the first publicly
[00:58] SPEAKER_01: public company that has a license.
[01:01] SPEAKER_01: So it's actually a regulated entity, which is big music in the last week.
[01:04] SPEAKER_01: So it's the first in Canada.
[01:06] SPEAKER_01: In the public markets like that, and last spring we had about a billion dollar market cap.
[01:10] Speaker UNKNOWN: 
[01:11] SPEAKER_00: Congratulations on that.
[01:12] SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
[01:12] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's been great and the team's done well.
[01:14] SPEAKER_01: But I've been there as a larger shoulder in a director.
[01:16] SPEAKER_01: I'm not running operations.
[01:17] SPEAKER_01: I'm not part of the I'm not an officer.
[01:19] SPEAKER_01: The company I did the netcoins acquisition 2019.
[01:22] SPEAKER_01: And combined with our compliance off that was so we created this, you know, compliance
[01:26] SPEAKER_01: first exchange and living it out with that kind of vision.
[01:28] SPEAKER_01: But since fall of 2019, I'm working on a liquid and really focused on the next phase
[01:33] SPEAKER_01: for Bitcoin, which is the Bitcoin lightning now.
[01:37] SPEAKER_01: And why it's important is, well, you want to get to understand why Bitcoin is important,
[01:41] SPEAKER_01: why it matters, even though there's all kinds of crypto.
[01:44] SPEAKER_01: And then we, you know, Bitcoin, the lightning network with this is the next layer to it,
[01:49] SPEAKER_01: who solves some of Bitcoin's issues in terms of scalability and takes it from say seven transactions
[01:55] SPEAKER_01: a second into the millions of transactions a second and really just changes the dynamics.
[02:00] SPEAKER_01: But I think one of the things I like to get into a little bit sometimes is talk about our
[02:05] SPEAKER_01: company philosophies.
[02:07] SPEAKER_01: Why Bitcoin?
[02:07] SPEAKER_01: Why the space?
[02:08] SPEAKER_01: What does that mean?
[02:09] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but your frat boys are all mining crypto in their dorms and we're all excited.
[02:13] SPEAKER_01: No, it's, you know, that's the, that's the nonsense part of it.
[02:17] SPEAKER_01: But and I've given some of these talks before and I was actually down at UCLA on a panel
[02:21] SPEAKER_01: that give it, we talk about, we're talking about Bitcoin and crypto.
[02:24] SPEAKER_01: And one of the questions that you really have to ask is, excuse me, very fundamental.
[02:30] SPEAKER_01: Why does Bitcoin?
[02:32] SPEAKER_01: And of course, you get your usual answers.
[02:34] SPEAKER_01: Oh, it's a payment network, it's value store, it's money, digital money for the digital age.
[02:39] SPEAKER_01: It is all of those things, but actually, it is answers are incorrect.
[02:43] SPEAKER_01: What it actually is that it's very core is a trust protocol and it solves a
[02:49] SPEAKER_01: communicative problem of how do you trust on the internet without a third party intermediary.
[02:53] SPEAKER_01: And then now we're handles trust.
[02:55] SPEAKER_01: When you think of it as a trust protocol, first, you can start to, you can start to wrap your
[03:00] SPEAKER_01: head around where it's going to go.
[03:01] SPEAKER_01: Now, here's the important thing and you get this or the privilege of timing in an industry,
[03:05] SPEAKER_01: you have some depth of knowledge in the industry.
[03:08] SPEAKER_01: The internet is made up of seven technology layers and they call this the OSI
[03:12] SPEAKER_01: technology stack, OSI standing for a big long name.
[03:15] SPEAKER_01: Nobody cares about what it represents is quite literally the plumbing of the internet.
[03:19] SPEAKER_01: It's how the internet works.
[03:21] SPEAKER_01: And you've layer one which is the jack in the wall, layer sevens, the websites and all
[03:25] SPEAKER_01: the stuff in between which is developed over time that makes the internet functions today.
[03:29] SPEAKER_01: Bitcoin comes in there as layer eight to the seven layer stack, the trust protocol that we tried
[03:34] SPEAKER_01: to do in the 90s and failed.
[03:36] SPEAKER_01: That's what Bitcoin solved.
[03:37] SPEAKER_01: Now, when you see it as trust first, money and payments is just the first use case,
[03:41] SPEAKER_01: like email is a first use case in the 90s.
[03:44] SPEAKER_01: It's going to be so much more as we change the dynamics of trust online.
[03:48] SPEAKER_01: And does the version one of the internet to democratize knowledge and communication,
[03:51] SPEAKER_01: this new phase in the internet, which is a continuation of the revolution.
[03:54] SPEAKER_01: The internet is going to help democratize finance, but also change,
[04:00] SPEAKER_01: see it changing the ability to reduce corruption around the world,
[04:03] SPEAKER_01: by creating transparency at scale for many different applications beyond money.
[04:07] SPEAKER_01: We can't even imagine that.
[04:09] SPEAKER_01: So we're really just setting the table for these things.
[04:11] SPEAKER_01: I have over the next 20, 30 years that have the world blue chef.
[04:14] SPEAKER_01: And ultimately, we as a company myself and some of those things are working on,
[04:19] SPEAKER_01: and we talk about this.
[04:20] SPEAKER_01: I have a co-author of a book that's coming up, both Trust and the Rise of Bitcoin.
[04:24] SPEAKER_01: And one of the things we talk about is, there's intellectual imperialism.
[04:28] SPEAKER_01: So why do we have corrupt countries around the world?
[04:30] SPEAKER_01: But how these countries that know your whole entire life, they're still the same mess that they've
[04:33] SPEAKER_01: been in for 40 years as long as you live.
[04:36] SPEAKER_01: And part of the issue is,
[04:38] SPEAKER_01: there's lack of transparency.
[04:40] SPEAKER_01: They don't hold on to the best and brightest.
[04:42] SPEAKER_01: And we have this thing, you know,
[04:43] SPEAKER_01: called intellectual imperialism, where we actually strip mine their best and brightest by
[04:47] SPEAKER_01: offering them a better life in Canada, in the United States, better jobs, better pay.
[04:51] SPEAKER_01: They can get ahead because it's a less corrupt
[04:53] SPEAKER_01: countries where you can actually found a business and do things.
[04:57] SPEAKER_01: And so you take their best and brightest out of these nations,
[05:00] SPEAKER_01: and you leave them with their third rate management,
[05:02] SPEAKER_01: their third rate leaders, and their systems are just
[05:05] SPEAKER_01: archaic and forever-mired and corruption.
[05:07] SPEAKER_01: So now the hope is,
[05:10] SPEAKER_01: as the internet's changed knowledge in these countries here,
[05:13] SPEAKER_01: now you have this enhancement of trust, a trust layer,
[05:16] SPEAKER_01: that can over time reduce the kleptocracies and create better voting records and
[05:20] SPEAKER_01: better records for ownership of land and all kinds of things that
[05:24] SPEAKER_01: these corrupt nations are, there's a lot of theft and all these things going on there.
[05:28] SPEAKER_01: And if you can move a country up the corruption index,
[05:31] SPEAKER_01: meaning there's less, as a less corrupt, you have less reason for people to leave.
[05:35] SPEAKER_01: And if you can allow them to retain their best and brightest,
[05:38] SPEAKER_01: you can, over the period of 30 years, plant the seeds that they will stand on 30 years,
[05:42] SPEAKER_01: that will ultimately change entire nations well-being and bring them up the
[05:46] SPEAKER_01: the whole new level of prosperity and what have you.
[05:49] SPEAKER_01: And so, part of this gets down to the sort of looking at the Transparency.org,
[05:53] SPEAKER_01: that their corruption index, the top 10 countries are typical Canada, Finland, etc.
[05:57] SPEAKER_01: They're all like the scores of 90-91, down the bottom, deadlasses,
[06:01] SPEAKER_01: Somalia, and the score of eight, and in between there, you've got
[06:02] SPEAKER_01: African nations, and it's typically in European around the bottom third.
[06:07] SPEAKER_01: And it's no surprise, but ultimately they have been on broken systems.
[06:11] SPEAKER_01: And this is where we know the hope is that we'll see this more over time and
[06:14] SPEAKER_01: then really change the structure of it.
[06:15] SPEAKER_00: I love that analogy, as far as the trust protocol, money and finances,
[06:21] SPEAKER_00: really just the first use case.
[06:24] SPEAKER_01: Correct.
[06:24] SPEAKER_00: Is that why liquid is really focusing on the monetary network?
[06:29] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
[06:30] SPEAKER_01: For sure.
[06:30] SPEAKER_01: So, certainly remittances, reducing costs for infriccion for payments,
[06:35] SPEAKER_01: the ability to create the rail effectively,
[06:37] SPEAKER_01: you're looking at new financial infrastructure, new rails that are open,
[06:41] SPEAKER_01: they call open architecture, really just an extension of the internet.
[06:44] SPEAKER_01: And so, just as back in the day, you'd have private networks for people to try
[06:47] SPEAKER_01: to get on and communicate with, eventually everybody morphed to the internet
[06:50] SPEAKER_01: because it was just so much easier.
[06:51] SPEAKER_01: And so, the same thing is happening now on the payment level where you could try
[06:55] SPEAKER_01: to connect to some companies' private network if they allow you to,
[06:58] SPEAKER_01: or you could just use the open lightning network and everybody's happy because it's easy to use.
[07:03] SPEAKER_00: Well, and let's just talk about that for a second.
[07:05] SPEAKER_00: I understand I have a very basic knowledge to crypto currencies.
[07:10] SPEAKER_01: Right.
[07:10] SPEAKER_00: I've got a little bit of investment personally, but and I understand Bitcoin.
[07:16] SPEAKER_00: Where some of my confusion gets into the mix,
[07:19] SPEAKER_00: shown is I've seen this rise of hundreds of crypto currencies.
[07:25] SPEAKER_00: I saw a map the other day that had logos of all these different cryptocurrencies that are evolving.
[07:29] SPEAKER_00: Why the focus on Bitcoin specifically and or and what is the role of all of these
[07:36] SPEAKER_00: myriad of other cryptocurrency?
[07:39] SPEAKER_01: The big question is the first and the anchor of the industry.
[07:42] SPEAKER_01: It's like the reserve currency of the industry.
[07:44] SPEAKER_01: I mean, it had this weird kind of birth where no foundation established it.
[07:48] SPEAKER_01: It just kind of morphed onto itself.
[07:51] SPEAKER_01: And so there's really no central head to it.
[07:53] SPEAKER_01: It is truly decentralized where a lot of these other
[07:55] SPEAKER_01: there may be tokens for very specific projects.
[07:57] SPEAKER_01: They may be a smart contract network where they try and
[08:00] SPEAKER_01: to establish something within or sometimes they're just simply clones and they're just simply
[08:04] SPEAKER_01: pump and dumps and they're trying to take money out of the market.
[08:06] SPEAKER_01: Mo I would say 95% of the crypto out there is probably along those lines.
[08:10] SPEAKER_01: Some of them are just science experiments with people are trying things and that's great.
[08:13] SPEAKER_01: You might see that technology bleed back into the
[08:16] SPEAKER_01: warmer chair project projects like Ethereum or Bitcoin.
[08:19] SPEAKER_01: But ultimately Bitcoin is the purest one and it's the one that represents
[08:23] SPEAKER_01: native digital currency for the internet age.
[08:26] SPEAKER_01: And it has the brand and has all the decentralization and all those things.
[08:30] SPEAKER_01: And the lighting network is the key to scaling it up.
[08:33] SPEAKER_01: Because it's such a well-known source code,
[08:35] SPEAKER_01: anybody can take it and fork it and make their own type of projects and start them.
[08:39] SPEAKER_01: Adjust for when you'll see some interesting project maybe very
[08:41] SPEAKER_01: specific and what would be currencies, but they may be addressing certain issues.
[08:44] SPEAKER_01: Potentially there's Lincoln ban these other protocols that are trying to take
[08:47] SPEAKER_01: outside data and validate it so it could be used within other networks.
[08:51] SPEAKER_01: And there's interesting things like that whether they're successful or not we don't know,
[08:54] SPEAKER_01: but those are libiallic at those.
[08:56] SPEAKER_01: You want to see legitimate tech projects have a shot at going far whether they see it or not
[09:02] SPEAKER_01: is nothing and then it's nice to see regulation stepping in and law enforcement kick in,
[09:08] SPEAKER_01: especially with all the ICOs in the past and all those things and going after these groups
[09:11] SPEAKER_01: that it's not a free ride.
[09:14] SPEAKER_00: So can I just touch on the safety and security?
[09:17] SPEAKER_00: I know Big has another company blockchain intelligence.
[09:20] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I was a wild ride for sure.
[09:22] SPEAKER_01: The company works with law enforcement all over the world.
[09:25] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I've been all over the world meeting regulators and training all the site
[09:29] SPEAKER_01: at least and stuff.
[09:30] SPEAKER_00: Well, I guess my question for you is related to this safety and security.
[09:34] SPEAKER_00: There's this and I'm going to pick on headlines only because
[09:38] SPEAKER_00: people get caught up in headlines which are absolutely.
[09:40] SPEAKER_00: Standing I think you might see a headline where cryptocurrency is really just enabling the dark web
[09:48] SPEAKER_00: or it's in bad behavior.
[09:51] SPEAKER_00: But the reality is that's just a small portion of what's happening in the blockchain world.
[09:58] SPEAKER_00: One of my goals is to dispel safety concerns for the average entrepreneur, a small business
[10:03] SPEAKER_00: owner and get into cryptocurrencies.
[10:05] SPEAKER_00: Sean, your thoughts on what is the first step that somebody really needs to take to
[10:11] SPEAKER_00: to get into this new decentralized finance system and why is it so important
[10:19] SPEAKER_00: considering the headlines that are scaring us.
[10:23] SPEAKER_01: And that's a broad way.
[10:24] SPEAKER_01: So some of the headlines are related to the central, some of the defy stuff,
[10:27] SPEAKER_01: decentralized finance that are really cutting edge and the may have problems in the code,
[10:31] SPEAKER_01: the may have effects.
[10:32] SPEAKER_01: And then when we get back to just say Bitcoin, which is what I think people should focus on
[10:37] SPEAKER_01: if they're new to this space is focus on Bitcoin.
[10:38] SPEAKER_01: It's the one and it's the reserve is the first and everything is based on that and it had that
[10:44] SPEAKER_01: the way that it came into being is very unique and on the our impossible to duplicate.
[10:50] SPEAKER_01: So we look at Bitcoin.
[10:52] SPEAKER_01: So if somebody's going into space, I would say you can go to netcoins.ca, open them account,
[10:55] SPEAKER_01: buy a little bit of Bitcoin, get your get into it slowly, read a lot about it,
[11:00] SPEAKER_01: try to understand what it is, try to stay away from all the, there's a lot of hype and people
[11:04] SPEAKER_01: say you should buy this coin or that coin or this thing or that thing.
[11:07] SPEAKER_01: And really that's been just focused on really where they'll just understand Bitcoin first.
[11:13] SPEAKER_01: And then from there everything else you can look at Ethereum and go like other things,
[11:16] SPEAKER_01: but really it's Bitcoin.
[11:17] SPEAKER_01: And the one I have a theory, I like Ethereum, it's a very interesting project.
[11:20] SPEAKER_01: It's made the whole crypto and the public blockchain space come alive.
[11:24] SPEAKER_01: I really think it's in some respects it reminds me of that net state.
[11:28] SPEAKER_01: Because net scaped the non navigator with the browser came out and suddenly the internet went
[11:32] SPEAKER_01: from being this command line thing to like you could see it was cool and it just kicked off the whole
[11:36] SPEAKER_01: space. Ultimately they died at the death of a thousand cuts and the technology got bled into
[11:41] SPEAKER_01: all the other projects and what have you.
[11:43] SPEAKER_01: But that may be the fate for Ethereum, I don't know, but focus on just focus on Bitcoin and
[11:48] SPEAKER_01: learning about that first before they get anything else.
[11:50] SPEAKER_01: And then the rest of it is a bit of the Wild West for sure and there's the good about the ugly
[11:54] SPEAKER_01: with it, but the technology moves at a blinding pace.
[11:57] SPEAKER_01: You mentioned Darkwave and all the scary stuff.
[11:59] SPEAKER_01: I have spent a lot of time on the Darkwave working for blockchain intelligence group and working
[12:02] SPEAKER_01: in Homeland Security and other federal agencies and spend a lot of time in Washington DC.
[12:07] SPEAKER_01: The Darkwave is actually it's a clever name, but ultimately it's called the Torna work,
[12:12] SPEAKER_01: which is actually funded by the US Navy and it's a US government project.
[12:17] SPEAKER_01: Much like the internet started off as part of the US government became open source.
[12:20] SPEAKER_01: The Darkwave is just a way for people to try to communicate with someone with an
[12:25] SPEAKER_01: anonymity and of course people think they have bad people do bad things when they think they
[12:29] SPEAKER_01: can get away with it. And so you see that you've seen a lot of the drug sales and proliferation
[12:33] SPEAKER_01: of all these kinds of things that happen on the Darkwave. Now Bitcoin's usage in it,
[12:38] SPEAKER_01: it just happens to be that Bitcoin is very convenient for making payment around the world.
[12:42] SPEAKER_01: Right. It's super, it solves a huge problem and criminals are typically in the business of
[12:47] SPEAKER_01: either going to make a lot of money, they're going to go to jail or they're going to get shot and
[12:50] SPEAKER_01: killed. Not a lot of choices. And so they're always over an edge. And back in the 90s, they were once
[12:56] SPEAKER_01: the internet hit a certain inflection point like the early 90s, they got onto it right away.
[13:00] SPEAKER_01: And people were like, oh, that internet, it's all full of hackers and crackers and criminals and
[13:04] SPEAKER_01: it's drug dealers and it's terrible. We don't want anything to do with the internet. And of course
[13:08] SPEAKER_01: the banks didn't want anything to do with the internet. They're like, if you had a bank,
[13:11] SPEAKER_01: it's really tough to get a bank account if you're an internet company. And if you had a visa,
[13:15] SPEAKER_01: you took visa number over the internet and you plugged it into your terminal and visa found out
[13:19] SPEAKER_01: they take your terminal away. Right. Now it's like most of their business runs over the internet
[13:22] SPEAKER_01: including the backbone and everything, a bunch of other stuff. The criminals were just the first
[13:25] SPEAKER_01: embrace the internet because it was and ultimately as law enforcement got a hand in law that
[13:29] SPEAKER_01: technology matured became more and more mainstream. It's yes, the element's still there, but ultimately
[13:34] SPEAKER_01: there's a lot of great uses that came out of it. The same thing's happening for Bitcoin,
[13:37] SPEAKER_01: needs to shake off that reputation. This company's like blockchain intelligence group and
[13:41] SPEAKER_01: others that are working law enforcement and law enforcement has got a much better handle on it.
[13:45] SPEAKER_01: It's also become a much smaller percentage of the general overall transaction growth that is
[13:49] SPEAKER_01: climbed drastically and will continue to contrastically and Bitcoin, particularly through the Bitcoin
[13:54] SPEAKER_01: Lightning Network, which is seeing a massive growth. Back to the Lightning Network itself. What
[13:59] SPEAKER_01: is the Lightning Network? The Lightning Network that call it a layer to solution. What does that mean?
[14:05] SPEAKER_01: So you scale the internet up with multiple layers of technology. Bitcoin is falling the same
[14:09] SPEAKER_01: philosophy where there's the base layer, which is really secure. You get your wallet, you buy
[14:15] SPEAKER_01: your Bitcoin, it might take a few minutes for the transaction to complete layer to solution,
[14:20] SPEAKER_01: the Lightning Network solution that runs on top of it and interacts with the layer one,
[14:25] SPEAKER_01: solves Bitcoin speed problems. Now you have the ability to do millions of transactions a second
[14:30] SPEAKER_01: and you inherit some of the security from the base layer and it's great for small purchases and
[14:36] SPEAKER_01: rapid purchases and micro purchases and all kinds of things are coming out of it. So how does it work?
[14:40] SPEAKER_01: It works very similar to how the internet works. So what you have is you have a series of
[14:43] SPEAKER_01: it's a mesh network like the internet. You have a series of nodes. Nodes are simply computers,
[14:49] SPEAKER_01: servers. And with almost servers, you're running the Lightning Network software, which is open source
[14:53] SPEAKER_01: and anyone can use it and be able to fork it. It's part and parcel of the internet.
[14:58] SPEAKER_01: And within you run that software of the Lightning Network and you open up with a call payment
[15:02] SPEAKER_01: channel with other people all over the world. And so you have all these routing nodes,
[15:06] SPEAKER_01: all running on nodes, connecting to other nodes, opening payment channels to payment channels.
[15:11] SPEAKER_01: And you may send a transaction and might go through eight or nine hops until it reached
[15:15] SPEAKER_01: its final destination and eventually and that's where it's passed off to. There's similar to when
[15:20] SPEAKER_01: you go and look up Google.com, you may actually go through Shah or tell us and another half it does
[15:24] SPEAKER_01: a hop speed where he actually gets to their servers and back to you. A similar in concept, of course,
[15:29] SPEAKER_01: a few little differences. But ultimately, this is based upon the scaling solution, how the internet
[15:34] SPEAKER_01: is built. And it's come a long way. And certainly over the last year, you see a massive growth in
[15:39] SPEAKER_01: the chart. You're seeing this hockey step curve in terms of Bitcoin available on the network. I think
[15:42] SPEAKER_01: there's about 143 million in capacity and climbing really rapidly and nodes and payment channels. And
[15:47] SPEAKER_01: the whole ecosystem is really starting to blossom forward and liquid our opportunity in the spaces.
[15:54] SPEAKER_01: Leveraging the capital markets to get as much Bitcoin as we can create routing nodes,
[15:59] SPEAKER_01: participate within this network and make sure that we help transactions go from point A to point B.
[16:04] SPEAKER_01: We don't know where they are. We just sit in the middle and make sure it's passed on to the next
[16:07] SPEAKER_01: layer. And in exchange for that, we earn micro fees off of it. So we're looking for high volume.
[16:14] SPEAKER_01: And we get micro fees in Bitcoin that the network is automatically designed to pay out and
[16:17] SPEAKER_01: based upon what we set for our fee rates. So this is how we earn our money.
[16:22] SPEAKER_01: As our base layer, we're going to continue to branch into other things, but that's the lightning
[16:26] SPEAKER_01: network in a nutshell. And I hope that makes sense. To me, I just want to do the analogy that sometimes
[16:32] SPEAKER_00: standing more traditional currencies. So if we were talking fiat currency currencies, what would
[16:37] SPEAKER_01: be the equivalent of liquid space? That's a good question. I don't think there is any equivalent,
[16:43] SPEAKER_01: but if we have two, you can say there's four of Steelers and there's Correspondent Banks.
[16:47] SPEAKER_01: And when you do a wire transfer and ETF or whatever, make it days to go, but it may go from bank to
[16:53] SPEAKER_01: bank until it finally gets to its final destination, you don't even know what happens behind the
[16:58] SPEAKER_01: things with Swift network. And sometimes they don't even know what else where it is.
[17:02] SPEAKER_01: But ultimately, we would be sitting in the middle of saying, okay, we've got liquidity and we have
[17:07] SPEAKER_01: connectivity to these other providers. And we can make sure that the payment is then passed over
[17:11] SPEAKER_01: to where it needs to go. And they're the ones that are sending it. We're not sitting there trying
[17:15] SPEAKER_01: to do the K way, CNN on this transaction. We're just simply a network provider. It's actually more
[17:19] SPEAKER_01: like if you had to go, we call ourselves an LSP or a lightning network service provider. So we
[17:24] SPEAKER_01: would be like almost like an internet service provider would make it very easy to get on the
[17:27] SPEAKER_01: lightning now, we're getting a bunch and all the stuff happening and all that we cover all the
[17:31] SPEAKER_01: magic. The stuff going on between those between the individuals that are happening all that we
[17:34] SPEAKER_01: just make sure that the wires are working the way it is and we take our fees for that. Did I also see
[17:39] SPEAKER_00: someone in researching more about liquid that you also part of your goal is you actually purchase
[17:45] SPEAKER_01: Bitcoin. So you're there's equity. There's two reasons for that. So first off,
[17:49] SPEAKER_01: Bigtable Livers and Bitcoin, we really for the reason state of prior, we really feel it's
[17:53] SPEAKER_01: the future of the internet and native digital currency and its value will continue to be unlocked.
[17:58] SPEAKER_01: And we can get into the value on the internet. I love to talk about the value of Bitcoin. And why
[18:02] SPEAKER_01: where we see the value of Bitcoin? But ultimately we have this on our balance sheet because we believe
[18:06] SPEAKER_01: in the value in its future value. But here's the big one. In order to run lightning network
[18:12] SPEAKER_01: nodes and channels and connect to other channels, if you're going to open a channel, it is a
[18:17] SPEAKER_01: technical requirement of the network. You must have Bitcoin on that channel in order for it to
[18:21] SPEAKER_01: function. There's no Bitcoin on that channel. It won't function with the rest of the network. So
[18:24] SPEAKER_01: the more channels we have, the more nodes, and we start to run the bigger footprint we have,
[18:29] SPEAKER_01: the more Bitcoin we can put to work, the more Bitcoin we can put to work, the bigger footprint,
[18:33] SPEAKER_01: the more fees we can earn. So it's not hard to parcel, right? Just for Q and Ossity say,
[18:40] SPEAKER_00: how do you operate based here in Vancouver? But do you have physical works in more?
[18:45] SPEAKER_01: With... Do you have an office in Vancouver? We do, but we really are virtual team. We've
[18:48] SPEAKER_01: people working all over the world, the company. And we really could be on a laptop and a mobile
[18:54] SPEAKER_01: and work from anywhere. So it is decentralized in that sense. So we do plan to open an office
[18:58] SPEAKER_01: in San Francisco. We spend a lot of time down there with BIDG in terms of being in that ecosystem.
[19:05] SPEAKER_01: We know that Vancouver may be our home base, but we have to act and think and work like a
[19:10] SPEAKER_01: Silicon Valley company. That's where the tech centralers. And so we'll be down there soon. I
[19:14] SPEAKER_01: expect to be in LA in a few weeks, but certainly getting a business development point of
[19:19] SPEAKER_01: presence down there and continue to leverage our context that we have already from our time working
[19:23] SPEAKER_00: in the industry and establishing footprint there. So what is your thoughts on the smaller currencies
[19:31] SPEAKER_00: that are coming up and getting more? And I could... The OpenEXO... EXO economy, they have EXO tokens,
[19:40] SPEAKER_00: we have seeds, which is really about regenerative land purposes. There are sort of social purposes.
[19:47] SPEAKER_00: Social tokens, social coins, and social tokens. What how can they... I suspect that they will rise
[19:55] SPEAKER_00: in popularity because they're cosrelated. But how will they integrate with the bigger players,
[20:03] SPEAKER_01: the more mainstream... I think that's where those tokens will be able to convert them on
[20:09] SPEAKER_01: exchanges. And eventually, maybe they might get enough traction while people want to take them
[20:14] SPEAKER_01: as direct payment, whether they're city token or what have you. They have a long ways to go for that.
[20:19] SPEAKER_01: And there are some considerations. Certainly, we work with regulators and we hear what's going on
[20:24] SPEAKER_01: down there. They're truly decentralized or some of the token holders in position of a control block,
[20:31] SPEAKER_01: which meaning they actually are the control entity behind it. And so are these actually securities
[20:37] SPEAKER_01: or are they actually true utility tokens? And so there's a lot of unanswered questions that are
[20:41] SPEAKER_01: in that space. And we'll get answered, and certainly it's pushing the boundary for regulations,
[20:44] SPEAKER_01: and it needs to, and the regulation, which will always run behind technology because technology
[20:49] SPEAKER_01: moves so fast, we'll need to catch up and start to address it. But in terms of where some of these
[20:53] SPEAKER_01: things are going, I think they're speculative for sure. And I'm a calculated risk taker. So I'm
[20:58] SPEAKER_01: not... There's some place for speculation, and people's part, if you can stomach it and you
[21:02] SPEAKER_01: control the risk. But personally, I think if you're new to the space, you should just look at
[21:05] SPEAKER_01: Bitcoin and try to understand the fundamentals of the industry first. And it's easy to get caught up
[21:09] SPEAKER_01: in some of these things. But that doesn't mean they don't have value or won't have value. But I
[21:13] SPEAKER_01: wouldn't classify them as currency because they don't necessarily fit the true definition of the
[21:18] SPEAKER_01: may better fit the definition of a security, of course. Great. That's what Bitcoin's weird because
[21:24] SPEAKER_01: it's not... It's come along as a true currency and true trust protocol. Ethereum was used. It's
[21:30] SPEAKER_01: the iso method and it was classified as not a security, I believe. But some of these others,
[21:34] SPEAKER_01: for sure, and they're going to be... I've seen utility tokens, but it seems to me from what I've
[21:39] SPEAKER_01: seen, there's very few true utility tokens. Because if you have the idea that it may go
[21:44] SPEAKER_01: from value or if it has voting rights or any of these things, then it immediately fails the how
[21:48] SPEAKER_01: we test and regularly look at it and be like, no, it's definitely a security. If there's...
[21:53] SPEAKER_01: depending on how it is issued and who it is issued to. Now, what we like to see and we hope to
[21:56] SPEAKER_01: continue to see is that there'll be more mechanisms for people to do actual securities
[22:01] SPEAKER_01: issuance using the whole ICO concept was flawed because it was just the Wild West and fraudsters
[22:07] SPEAKER_01: took advantage of it and the hype in the market. But the underlying architecture of being able to
[22:12] SPEAKER_01: issue and have a zero-day settlement is certainly mild ahead from where the stock market is right now,
[22:17] SPEAKER_01: where you have a three to five-day settlement and you know, even necessarily no home to share when
[22:22] SPEAKER_01: it's... When it was the whole back office that happens behind the scenes, you're... Meanwhile,
[22:25] SPEAKER_01: you can hit a button in the crypto and it's immediate settlement and you can see the markets in real time.
[22:30] SPEAKER_00: And that's where it's all going to go. That's an interesting segue because in my list of
[22:34] SPEAKER_00: questions, I have you. If you become a public-viewed trader company, that is no easy feat from my
[22:40] SPEAKER_00: company. How does a tech company like yours who are specifically in the crypto space that is
[22:48] SPEAKER_00: facing scrutiny? What can you share a little bit about the process of becoming a pro?
[22:54] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the process. So being a public company, there's advantages and disadvantages. You can say
[22:57] SPEAKER_01: private and raise money through VCs that are advantageous. There's also disadvantage through that as
[23:02] SPEAKER_01: well. So it's really... It's a mark... Dealing on the public market is certainly the venture exchange.
[23:06] SPEAKER_01: It's something that we've had success with in the past and we've got a good team around there.
[23:10] SPEAKER_01: It's quite familiar with Navigating and so we have a good opportunity to get chance to be successful.
[23:14] SPEAKER_01: Again, no forward-looking statement. It's not going to guarantee that, but certainly we feel confident
[23:19] SPEAKER_01: where we're going. That said, there's a lot of capital markets that are out there. There's a lot of
[23:23] SPEAKER_01: capital that we can be tapped into and if you approach it in the right way, you can raise it.
[23:26] SPEAKER_01: With a good team and a good vision, there's money willing to back it. We'll have you. But what is the
[23:31] SPEAKER_01: process? The process of a process, certainly, you build your business, you build your business,
[23:35] SPEAKER_01: you build your opportunity. Now we are working within a really big trend. So we're not within this
[23:39] SPEAKER_01: small little... Our opportunity is as a massive scale. So we've got this big ocean of replying
[23:43] SPEAKER_01: within the space we've carved out our niche that we have that has this massive growth potential
[23:49] SPEAKER_01: all over it and that's really what people are backing us with. Plus, they're backing the team that's
[23:52] SPEAKER_01: got some track record. If you're going to go public, though, I keep telling us to other startups
[23:57] SPEAKER_01: that we talked to because as a public company, we'll certainly look for acquisitions and then
[24:02] SPEAKER_01: as the former executive chairman of BIGG, we bought netcoins together with my CFL Kim Evans.
[24:07] SPEAKER_01: So I adore her. She's an amazing person and we've got that transaction going in the public markets.
[24:11] SPEAKER_01: But if you want to buy private companies, you just think you have to be able to get an audit.
[24:16] SPEAKER_01: Auditing and all of this aspect is very important. We come to you and say, hey, we really like to do
[24:20] SPEAKER_01: and we want to join us. We have the cap or we can... If you can't get audit in your book,
[24:24] SPEAKER_01: share a mass, you're not going to be able to go public and you can't retain an audit,
[24:27] SPEAKER_01: can't go public. It's certainly something that's always on our minds. We want to make sure auditors
[24:30] SPEAKER_01: are happy and we have good record keeping and what have you. So that's a big component of it and
[24:34] SPEAKER_01: then certainly having good structure to the public vehicle. It could be done as a reverse takeover,
[24:39] SPEAKER_01: it could be done as a direct listing as they call it, but either way you want to have good
[24:42] SPEAKER_01: backers behind you and you want to know who's so willing to share this and what your market is.
[24:47] SPEAKER_01: So you can maintain some control of your destiny. When and at a macro level, decentralized
[24:52] SPEAKER_00: finance as a concept is really about taking trading out of the control of those who have
[25:00] SPEAKER_00: control now, which is really banks and governments, etc. So I just wonder, is becoming public
[25:06] SPEAKER_00: and traded sort of counterintuitive to becoming decentralized? Yeah, I wouldn't discount
[25:12] SPEAKER_01: in traditional capital markets. They will morph and change and adapt some of this technology and
[25:16] SPEAKER_01: become stronger, but there is some legitimacy that comes with it. And certainly at liquid,
[25:21] SPEAKER_01: absolutely embrace that and maybe draw on our experiences of BIDG where that's become the first
[25:26] SPEAKER_01: public trade regulated crypto exchanging in Canada and one of the biggest. So same mindset that
[25:32] SPEAKER_01: we're sort of running from the regulators, we need to work with them and go forward.
[25:37] SPEAKER_00: So could you put an estimated timeframe on this hybrid digital capital markets and digital?
[25:44] SPEAKER_01: That's a good question. You want to see some of the major exchanges in Canada. I don't know
[25:48] SPEAKER_01: whether I was some of the project heard the CAC is working on a tokenized share offerings.
[25:51] SPEAKER_01: Maybe the TSX is doing the same. I don't know. I think they will be pushed by other crypto
[25:56] SPEAKER_01: exchanges that are going to get into the space as well and be able to tokenize offerings. If
[26:01] SPEAKER_01: they don't keep up, competitions, going to wake them up and force them to move quicker.
[26:06] SPEAKER_01: There is the back office that of course in terms of how the shares are transferred and what
[26:09] SPEAKER_01: have that need to be done and a bunch of it's a big undertaking, but it needs to be pushed that way.
[26:14] SPEAKER_01: It's probably another three to five years out until that actually we really see it, but
[26:18] SPEAKER_01: I believe the next sort of 24, 36 months or a real revolutionary phase where it's going to really
[26:23] SPEAKER_01: wake up. Exciting. This is the thing, right? I give this talk to some bankers, as well as in New
[26:28] SPEAKER_01: York. And we talked about Bitcoin and we talked about the payments and banking and all the
[26:32] SPEAKER_01: kind of stuff. And I was like, what do you think your biggest threat is? And they're like, let's say
[26:36] SPEAKER_01: I'm out on compliance and regulators like wrong. Completely. We already saw that. We have more
[26:42] SPEAKER_01: clarity on what's going on here with analytics and all the stuff we have here on an open network.
[26:47] SPEAKER_01: Your biggest risk is in action because how long do you think it's going to be until Silicon
[26:51] SPEAKER_01: Valley wakes up and realize that they can get into banking too. And they have mobile phones,
[26:56] SPEAKER_01: access to everybody around the world, the Android iPhone and these massive companies are going to
[27:02] SPEAKER_01: look at and realize that Bitcoin is effectively the monetary trust now. We're letting it into banking
[27:06] SPEAKER_01: as well. And so when you look at it from that perspective and more and so here,
[27:11] SPEAKER_01: I'm like from a bank, you have customers, you have bankers who understand banking, you have
[27:15] SPEAKER_01: capital, it's your currently in a pool position. But the sands are ery roading away just like the sands
[27:21] SPEAKER_01: are ery roading away for seers and came out and all the other ones will Amazon and the internet
[27:24] SPEAKER_01: came along and destroyed their business models. And your threat is you're not, you shouldn't be
[27:29] SPEAKER_01: worried about other banks. You should be worried about Silicon Valley and the tightest of
[27:33] SPEAKER_01: tech coming through your industry and as they will do it and they are already working on it. And
[27:40] SPEAKER_01: armies of developers of the best and brightest backed by massive amounts of capital and this army
[27:46] SPEAKER_01: of developers, I know this firsthand because they're guys like myself, they are born and bred
[27:50] SPEAKER_01: into a culture of disruption. We'll have nothing more than to take a 600 year old banking
[27:54] SPEAKER_01: industry in Wall Street, turning on a set. And they are coming for you.
[27:58] SPEAKER_00: I love it. I just want to reiterate something really important that you said is the regulators
[28:06] SPEAKER_00: and the advisors and the policy makers are, I'll call them our friends. So they should not really
[28:12] SPEAKER_00: be threatened by this. They should be excited about this. Yes. Perhaps their individual jobs will
[28:19] SPEAKER_00: change and morph. But to me, policy is what legs behind and makes sense of what's happening in
[28:27] SPEAKER_00: the big picture. Right? What's happening in the population, they try and make sense of it.
[28:33] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely. I think they do their best. There's a lot of new tech coming out them.
[28:37] SPEAKER_01: There's conflicting things that are going on and maybe some of them are trying to protect the
[28:41] SPEAKER_01: traditional banking interests and they're not. Some of this stuff you even see in government in
[28:44] SPEAKER_01: terms of we're going to regulate it and the new laws that we're trying to be passed in terms of
[28:47] SPEAKER_01: how they're going through talking about. We heard this back in the early 2000s and they were like,
[28:51] SPEAKER_01: oh, the internet is evil and bad. And we even heard the senators and we should ban the internet
[28:55] SPEAKER_01: and we should tax it and we should do this all bluster. All went away. That came and went and
[29:00] SPEAKER_01: this is the same thing. It's amazing how there's so many similarities between what's going on,
[29:05] SPEAKER_01: the Bitcoin and the crypto space and the internet. Back then, it wasn't smurfing on and it's very
[29:09] SPEAKER_01: simple is because this is just a continuation of the revolution of the internet. It's just the next
[29:13] SPEAKER_00: phase. There's a lot of uptake in cryptocurrencies with starting with companies and then of course
[29:20] SPEAKER_00: nations. Both are seeing some nations completely ban cryptocurrencies and Bitcoin. And then we are
[29:28] SPEAKER_00: seeing other countries actually adopt it and decide, no, that's their now their main
[29:35] SPEAKER_01: form of. Yeah, Salvador is taking it on and others will do it. Salvador right?
[29:40] SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's a really a move and certainly getting into it because it is the next sort of reserve
[29:45] SPEAKER_01: currency and it is the native currency for the internet. How powerful is that? And so you look at China
[29:50] SPEAKER_01: and they're sending, trying to back their central bank digital currencies and they're trying to
[29:54] SPEAKER_01: circle the wagons and I think they've really made a misstep here and they've chased all their
[29:58] SPEAKER_01: Bitcoin miners out to tax us and all over in America. It's just winning by default and because
[30:03] SPEAKER_01: it's in the United States and the Western nations are open more and more and it's definitely
[30:08] SPEAKER_01: missed up I think in the future. You'll see a federal banks and they'll have to have Bitcoin as a
[30:12] SPEAKER_01: reserve currency for this new age and you just look at how the generations that are coming up,
[30:18] SPEAKER_01: everything is digital. They don't care about printed money per se and it gets down to also big
[30:23] SPEAKER_01: white Bitcoin as value, too. Where I see the value in Bitcoin and that gets down to that
[30:27] SPEAKER_01: original thing that you're talking about, oh, Bitcoin is layer 8 to the 7 layer OSI stack.
[30:31] SPEAKER_01: So when you just I draw the simple analogy in my mind going, well, back in 1998, I think it was
[30:35] SPEAKER_01: 1999, there was estimates that the internet was worth about $180 billion. That's what it would
[30:40] SPEAKER_01: take Microsoft and yeah, we know these big companies to rebuild the internet. And if fast forwarded
[30:44] SPEAKER_01: about 2004 in Google's public and they're like, oh, it's worth $34 trillion if you think it
[30:49] SPEAKER_01: by 2010 or like, oh, it's worth $20 trillion or massive amount and now it's an unfathomable number
[30:56] SPEAKER_01: with the internet's worth. And that's just the original seven layers of technology. What is the 8th
[31:00] SPEAKER_01: there? The layer that does trust? What's that worth? Right now we're saying it's worth 600 billion?
[31:04] SPEAKER_01: That's it. Some people are just going to revolutionize the entire internet and it happened right away.
[31:08] SPEAKER_01: But certainly as its value is unlocked, it has potential to really hit an astronomical numbers
[31:14] SPEAKER_01: because it represents a fundamental change to how the world will work. And so this is where we look
[31:19] SPEAKER_01: at terms of value or I look at terms of. And in Western cultures in particular or progressive
[31:25] SPEAKER_00: economies, one of the key metrics of wealth has been real estate. So there was a quote on one of
[31:34] SPEAKER_00: one of your business pages that your goal, the quid's goal is to build a strong brand and then
[31:39] SPEAKER_00: capture valuable land in the highly sought after digital payments industry. Correct.
[31:45] SPEAKER_00: You and I know the analogy is digital not physical land, but what do you mean by that?
[31:51] SPEAKER_01: So when we talked about the nodes and the channels and the payment channels, we want to make that
[31:54] SPEAKER_01: footprint as big as possible. We went off connectivity to as many people as possible and sitting
[31:59] SPEAKER_01: in the middle of that and be able to route and handle as much traffic and transaction volume as
[32:04] SPEAKER_01: possible and earn as much fees off of that possible. And once you've established relationships,
[32:08] SPEAKER_01: and unless you really messed it up, it's you're not going to lose those relationships and
[32:11] SPEAKER_01: they become very valuable over time as you hit an inflection point and you start to move forward.
[32:15] SPEAKER_01: And that's where we were saying it'll never be as easy to establish routes and payment channels as
[32:19] SPEAKER_01: it is now in two, three years from now, more mages are in there and then you can have a well-heeled
[32:24] SPEAKER_01: companies moving in. They become much more difficult for a startup there. So we're at a great time.
[32:28] SPEAKER_01: We've got ourselves offered in place to be able to raise more capital and start to really plant
[32:33] SPEAKER_01: our flag at the right time. We'd be want to be early, not too early. And I like to plant spaces
[32:39] SPEAKER_01: that are it's not bleeding eggs, but it's still not quite understood by the public and you're
[32:44] SPEAKER_01: building into this way because you can either be early on time, whatever that means, or you can,
[32:50] SPEAKER_01: but you can't be late. If you're late, you're finished. So it's just not, first start, it's not
[32:56] SPEAKER_01: going to happen because you don't have the capital to buy your way out of the beginning. You can just
[33:06] SPEAKER_00: have a massive urban center. The future is moving to one quality places with super fast access to
[33:22] SPEAKER_00: nature, WHO. You can work for a global company anywhere in the world and still be based in decentralized
[33:31] SPEAKER_00: location. When it comes to the physicality of land, how can we leverage cryptocurrencies in land
[33:40] SPEAKER_00: asset value? Where do you see that going in the next slide? Is land asset value in terms of
[33:46] SPEAKER_01: being able to have land deeds and everything is registered properly on an immutable ledger,
[33:50] SPEAKER_01: especially not so much in Canada, but also more in corrupt nations where you can't have that
[33:54] SPEAKER_01: taken away from you. You can have that sense of ownership, which is important. I think that's
[33:58] SPEAKER_01: one of the first things that are not done on private blockchains that the government can shut down,
[34:02] SPEAKER_01: but actually have markers put into the public blockchain, i.e. Bitcoin. That is backed by
[34:09] SPEAKER_01: world computers that you can't turn off. Nobody can deny that it ever happens. I think that's one part
[34:14] SPEAKER_01: of it. The current season payments, the Canadian dollar, people will be able to do peer-to-peer
[34:20] SPEAKER_01: instant payments using these networks. We're the lightning that represents data markers for Fiat
[34:25] SPEAKER_01: currency on off on other sides where people take Bitcoin natively as they choose. It'll
[34:29] SPEAKER_01: certainly work on that. Maybe you will have, and like you said, people living together is your
[34:32] SPEAKER_01: life-minders that you tribe. You're worth your tribe, and within that, maybe the tribes will have
[34:37] SPEAKER_01: their own tokens and stuff like that down the line. I don't know, but are they just simply embrace
[34:42] SPEAKER_01: the main networks and then it would have you. It definitely plays into it and plays into
[34:46] SPEAKER_01: distributed payments, distributed effectively. They're good at the bout of Bitcoin, and now what
[34:51] SPEAKER_01: you're going to have is you are your own bank. That's good, because now you have complete control.
[34:56] SPEAKER_01: For a lot of people who are unbanked, there's 3 billion people around the world that have
[34:59] SPEAKER_01: unbank or underbanked, and don't even have a bank account. This represents the first time they
[35:03] SPEAKER_01: can actually get access to financial services, which is mind blowing for us to be not a
[35:08] SPEAKER_01: magic can't have financial services, but many people around the world don't have financial services,
[35:11] SPEAKER_01: and you'll never yield for ever to be married and poverty. That's very exciting. Of course,
[35:16] SPEAKER_01: there's the responsibility that comes with running everything on your own bank. If you lose
[35:20] SPEAKER_01: your crypto, there's no insurance and you're on your own. This really is, of course, that's where
[35:25] SPEAKER_01: some people would be more comfortable to use custodial services. There's that
[35:29] SPEAKER_01: comfortably there, and you'll see a hybrid. I like your analogy. I want to come back and finish off
[35:33] SPEAKER_00: a little bit with transacting with Bitcoin using the Lightning Network, which is really liquid's
[35:39] SPEAKER_00: mandate. It was five dog points on your website, which is leveraging the network infrastructure
[35:44] SPEAKER_00: to send payments globally and suddenly and cheaply. You're creating new payment infrastructure for
[35:49] SPEAKER_00: your business, harnessing your ability to leverage streaming and micro payments,
[35:53] SPEAKER_00: controlling your own payment rails, and scalability to use worldwide.
[35:58] SPEAKER_00: Can we talk a little bit shown about a use case if you are a small business or you're a startup
[36:05] SPEAKER_01: today? Companies are signing up. They want to use the Lightning Network. They want to take
[36:10] SPEAKER_01: crypto and Bitcoin as a payment. Yes. Our system there, you hit a button. You get a Lightning
[36:15] SPEAKER_01: Network node in the channel and we help provide some liquidity and you have the ability then to
[36:19] SPEAKER_01: create invoices, receive payments immediately on the network with instant settlement. You're
[36:23] SPEAKER_01: off and you're full control of this. It's actually quite simple. But some of the aspect that we're
[36:28] SPEAKER_01: doing, because we're an LSP, we're actually working with other wallet providers and other
[36:31] SPEAKER_01: to put out ensure that they have liquidity for their clients. Some of these actually are engaged with
[36:36] SPEAKER_01: creating things for podcasters of all things. As a good example, where podcasters can be paid on
[36:40] SPEAKER_01: a period-to-peer basis and the technologies being built in for the first time ever,
[36:45] SPEAKER_01: where you can be paid on a streaming basis and you can be paid in real time.
[36:49] SPEAKER_01: Yes. The money can literally stream in real time for whatever portion you use and it represents
[36:53] SPEAKER_01: these markers. It does represent and you're not beholden to the credit card companies and the
[36:58] SPEAKER_01: fees and what have you. So you have this ability to take payments. From our perspective,
[37:02] SPEAKER_01: we have companies that they sign up. They said one the other day talked to. They signed up,
[37:07] SPEAKER_01: boom, they're ready to go. They can take Bitcoin payments. We abstract away all the complications.
[37:12] SPEAKER_01: We connect them to the rest of the Lightning Network and now they can actually receive payments
[37:16] SPEAKER_01: for their customers and they can take, we have an API system built into our platform which
[37:20] SPEAKER_01: will be getting into more detail very soon in a public way. They can integrate that API into
[37:26] SPEAKER_01: the rest of their system and so they can computationally deal with the Lightning Network
[37:30] SPEAKER_01: but that even having to use our interface is just the interfaces there if they need it. That's
[37:37] SPEAKER_01: growing at our app trend. It's very exciting as we have a great team and a big opportunity in
[37:44] SPEAKER_00: front of us to. When I'm going back to the actual first step, if we're launching a startup,
[37:48] SPEAKER_00: I want to accept monetary currencies, maybe Canadian dollars, US dollars, maybe Australian dollars
[37:55] SPEAKER_00: and yes, I want to accept Bitcoin, seeds, tokens. These are the tokens that I want to be able to
[38:01] SPEAKER_00: receive for payment for services. Do we call you and say, can you help us that?
[38:07] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you call us for the Bitcoin component. You'd say, okay, we want to be able to take Bitcoin.
[38:12] SPEAKER_01: We want to, especially if we want to take Bitcoin over Lightning Network as everybody,
[38:15] SPEAKER_01: like in El Salvador, we've got Lightning Network wallets and people are doing remittances
[38:18] SPEAKER_01: and we're shipping overseas or whatever it may be and that's what we fit in there.
[38:22] SPEAKER_01: Here's your infrastructure, here's your play, here's everything you have, here's a monthly fee
[38:26] SPEAKER_01: and we take some on the transaction side for helping grow payments but ultimately,
[38:30] SPEAKER_01: we make it very easy and it's very low cost and we are a volume company. We're looking for volume,
[38:37] SPEAKER_01: not looking for markup and we're not a credit card company, we're two and a half, three percent off
[38:40] SPEAKER_01: of everything. It's designed for high volume and so that's what we would fit in there and thus
[38:45] SPEAKER_00: there we plan right now. So what would a fair analogy be like a PayPal equivalent?
[38:51] SPEAKER_01: Yes, so in the sense that PayPal, but you're in charge and we provide all the backend rails for
[38:56] SPEAKER_01: it. So we're more like this company called Plad where they provide all this new banking infrastructure
[39:00] SPEAKER_01: that other companies use. So ultimately, you're responsible for your KYC and AMO because that's
[39:05] SPEAKER_01: what your company does. We don't get in the middle of that. We're just there providing you that
[39:08] SPEAKER_01: connectivity and the ease of use of the network and making a very pointy pointy shoot and then
[39:13] SPEAKER_01: when you get on it works and so we make our money off of that, we make it easy for you.
[39:19] SPEAKER_00: For listeners, what what actions can they take from today?
[39:23] SPEAKER_01: In terms of using it, keep an eye on Lightning Network, it's going to be party, future,
[39:26] SPEAKER_01: it's going to be used for payments, but it also be used for anti spam security, all kinds of
[39:30] SPEAKER_01: communications, like many aspects of the Lightning Network. You can't get away from it and it's
[39:35] SPEAKER_01: certainly part of what the new generation wants and it's morphing around the world at a very
[39:39] SPEAKER_01: increasing rate. So whether you deal with it today or sometime, you're going to have to, it's going
[39:43] SPEAKER_01: to cross your path and it's coming like a freight train, you can't avoid it. So it's like trying to
[39:47] SPEAKER_01: not use the internet back in the late 90s eventually you had to and so that's that and if your
[39:54] SPEAKER_01: entrepreneurs and you're out there hats off to you, I know what it's like and there's good days
[39:58] SPEAKER_00: and bad days and you just keep going forward. Is there any additional sort of comment you want to
[40:03] SPEAKER_01: throw in there about Canada? Great in terms of regulation and where we're going to Canada sitting
[40:08] SPEAKER_01: in that space here. So we do have we have a fairly progressive, certainly with the IGG getting
[40:13] SPEAKER_01: restricted dealer license that's definitely a big step forward. I do think we have a tendency to
[40:17] SPEAKER_01: look at what's going on in the United States, the SEC and the regulators have a big hole and we're
[40:21] SPEAKER_01: a small fish in that pond where some of the progressive regulations are. I would look at Japan.
[40:26] SPEAKER_01: Japan is always being about a year and a half ahead in the space. The legitimate white
[40:29] SPEAKER_01: Bitcoin, I mean, a few years back, Japan and their big economy in the world. So seeing what they're
[40:33] SPEAKER_01: doing and so they put some thought into it. Some of these stuff that we we need to look at is
[40:38] SPEAKER_01: I'm going to move the way the FSA and England and Great Britain. They tend to take a risk-based
[40:42] SPEAKER_01: approach. After the 08 financial crisis they had the United States, they may blank at laws where
[40:48] SPEAKER_01: the FSA simply made the hedge fund to register. So they got an idea what each business was doing.
[40:53] SPEAKER_01: They're able to take a risk-based approach. And I think in the case of Bitcoin and crypto and
[40:58] SPEAKER_01: these types of and then technology which is so broad and moving so fast and blanket regulation
[41:03] SPEAKER_01: probably won't work from a practical standpoint. It's not pragmatic. If it can't be a blanket
[41:09] SPEAKER_00: regulation are there opportunities for provinces or cities to put themselves out there?
[41:16] SPEAKER_01: Possibly it could do token offerings for like bonds or municipal bonds or what have you. I don't know
[41:21] SPEAKER_01: how that plays out in terms of some of the market structure. You stuff that market participants
[41:24] SPEAKER_01: willing to buy in and then manage that stuff and then you get into custody and who's going to
[41:30] SPEAKER_01: custom- you know the custodial services that are so important because in certain funds can buy
[41:33] SPEAKER_01: certain things unless it's done a correct way and even if they want to and they like the project
[41:38] SPEAKER_01: like we can't buy it because it's not there's no way to custody this stuff. And effectively you're
[41:42] SPEAKER_01: talking with all these layers of financial services that I mean build up over time and regulation
[41:46] SPEAKER_01: built up over a fair amount. I think yes there's this stuff in 1933 and 34 from the different acts
[41:50] SPEAKER_01: that came out but there's different little nuances that are there and of course the United States
[41:55] SPEAKER_01: you've got and federal regulators and state regulators and and what have you but did it eventually
[41:59] SPEAKER_01: work itself out? Sean how do we connect with your post podcast? If you want to start accepting Bitcoin
[42:04] SPEAKER_01: over the Bitcoin Lightning that way that's what we deal with and mail to micro payments all kind of
[42:09] SPEAKER_01: reach out to us and we can help you out with the financial rails and then you can integrate it into
[42:13] SPEAKER_01: your into your system. For the products and services on the liquid website and we'll be putting
[42:18] SPEAKER_01: links on the where people can sign up for our platform. Perfect awesome okay thanks for your time
[42:22] SPEAKER_01: today. Thank you very much Angela.