Saher Ghattas

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[00:00] SPEAKER_00: It's Edmonton's Podcast on the Canada's Podcast Network.
[00:10] SPEAKER_00: Hello, this is Mario Toneguzi coming to you today with Edmonton's Podcast,
[00:15] SPEAKER_00: a member of Canada's Podcast Network, where we talk to the entrepreneurs who are making it happen
[00:21] SPEAKER_00: here in the city of Edmonton, Alberta. Christian Menna is a well-known restaurateur and former
[00:28] SPEAKER_00: lead singer of 90s Latin Pop, Punk Band Maracuja. He also starred on Broadway,
[00:35] SPEAKER_00: touring as Roger Inrent, alongside Neil Patrick Harris. He's a partner in Sabore,
[00:42] SPEAKER_00: Bodega Tapas and Wine bars and Urbano Pizza. Welcome to the show Christian and thanks for
[00:48] SPEAKER_00: taking the time today to be here with our listeners. Thanks Mario, thanks for having me.
[00:52] SPEAKER_00: First of all, tell me just a little bit about yourself, where you're from, and what your business
[00:57] SPEAKER_01: is all about. I'm a Chilean ancestry. I was born in Santiago de Chile. I immigrated to Canada in
[01:06] SPEAKER_01: 1974. I arrived by way of Argentina. So I lived in Buenos Aires for a year and then we came to Edmonton
[01:14] SPEAKER_01: in 1974. I remember that specifically because I was four years old and I arrived in November,
[01:19] SPEAKER_01: November 13th and I walked off the plane tarmac with a little pair of shorts and a t-shirt. It was
[01:25] SPEAKER_01: freezing. It's embedded in my mind. We own a few restaurants. The Bodega series. There are three of
[01:33] SPEAKER_01: those and their tapas restaurants focusing on traditional Spanish tapas with a bit of a Portuguese
[01:40] SPEAKER_01: influence. And we own Sabore, which is primarily a seafood restaurant. All the restaurants were
[01:46] SPEAKER_01: actually a product of mine and Lino's. I want to say imagination, but kind of forced that we went
[01:51] SPEAKER_01: back packing through Europe when we were 20 years old and we always wanted to have a European
[01:57] SPEAKER_01: style restaurant in Edmonton. We thought it would be fun to do that. And it worked out for us.
[02:03] SPEAKER_01: Lino is Lino Alavera. I was the chef at all the restaurants or the executive chef. And he's been my
[02:08] SPEAKER_01: best friend since we were eight. And he's my business partner. Did you need financing to start?
[02:14] SPEAKER_01: The financing we had to start was a lot of of our families. So Lino is brother and
[02:20] SPEAKER_01: I put in some money in my parents and my sister put in some money. I put my house on the line.
[02:24] SPEAKER_01: And then I had some savings in the head a little bit of savings and we managed to work it out.
[02:29] SPEAKER_00: How has the restaurant business been up in Edmonton these days considering obviously the economy
[02:34] SPEAKER_00: that we've gone through tough times here in the province in the last couple of years?
[02:40] SPEAKER_01: You know, it's an interesting scenario because for us and again I speak only for us.
[02:46] SPEAKER_01: Suburra, let's talk about Suburra first and foremost. We have just gone on our tenth year and people
[02:52] SPEAKER_01: call this the best kept secret in Edmonton for the first four or five years. And you know,
[02:57] SPEAKER_01: typically we were one of those overnight successes that took a decade to happen sort of thing.
[03:02] SPEAKER_01: So for the last two or three years for us, it's kind of become critical mass in the sense that
[03:06] SPEAKER_01: we are, we've become very popular. People know who we are. And the type of cuisine that we serve,
[03:13] SPEAKER_01: you know, seafood and Spanish and Portuguese style cuisine has become also very popular at the same
[03:18] SPEAKER_01: time. So for us, we've been very lucky in the last little while that things are going,
[03:24] SPEAKER_01: things are going quite well. That being said, of course, you know, inflation, the changes in
[03:29] SPEAKER_01: government policy, all that sort of thing, play into your margins. But by the same token,
[03:37] SPEAKER_01: you know, I'm not one that likes to complain. I just like to move forward.
[03:40] SPEAKER_00: What is your long-term vision for your company and growth plans?
[03:46] SPEAKER_01: You know what? I think we are focusing right now primarily on the bodegas, which is the top,
[03:50] SPEAKER_01: which is the top as bar portion of our restaurant group. Suburra is really kind of this
[03:57] SPEAKER_01: juggernaut in the sense that it started off as ADC and can now hold 250. So you can imagine we've
[04:03] SPEAKER_01: just expanded, expanded on it. It's just become bigger due to demand. But bodega is bodega,
[04:09] SPEAKER_01: which is the top as bar. It really is the model that we have been able to replicate. We've done it
[04:16] SPEAKER_01: three times. We're in the process of starting off fourth right now. And I think that is the
[04:20] SPEAKER_01: direction that we're going to focus on in the future. Definitely. Our model is working very, very
[04:25] SPEAKER_00: well for it. When you look at doing business in Edmonton, what are some of the advantages and
[04:30] SPEAKER_00: disadvantages of being an entrepreneur in Edmonton?
[04:34] SPEAKER_01: Well, I think the advantages are that people here love to eat. And I mean, that's the best way
[04:38] SPEAKER_01: possible. I think that Alberta in general is, regardless of lots of things, there's still tons
[04:46] SPEAKER_01: of opportunity here. I mean, it really is a fantastic province. And the people of Alberta,
[04:51] SPEAKER_01: in my experience, regardless of what part of Alberta you're in are just giving, loving people.
[04:57] SPEAKER_01: So that's always an advantage. If you have what people want, they will embrace you. If you treat
[05:02] SPEAKER_01: them correctly and treat them with respect and give them value, they will embrace you.
[05:06] SPEAKER_01: The disadvantages are, you know, there is no real disadvantage right up to now. I think right now
[05:15] SPEAKER_01: we're in a bit of an economic downturn. It's funny to me because we started in an economic downturn.
[05:24] SPEAKER_01: Like we were supposed to, suburb was supposed to open 2008 during this booming economy. And it
[05:29] SPEAKER_01: opened at the end of 2008 during the beginning of the recession. So for us, for us, it's kind of
[05:36] SPEAKER_00: a little bit cyclical in that sense. We do some of our best work outside the office. For yourself,
[05:41] SPEAKER_00: personally, is there a place in Edmonton you like to go or near where you either live or work?
[05:47] SPEAKER_00: Some place where you like to recharge, get inspired, think about your business?
[05:51] SPEAKER_01: I know it's funny to say this, but for me, when I try to recharge, I like to play soccer
[05:56] SPEAKER_01: and I'm a huge soccer fan. So I play soccer. I try to play at least once a week, even if it's for an hour.
[06:01] SPEAKER_01: And I try to include my daughter, who is my oldest daughter, who also loves to play the sport. So that's
[06:05] SPEAKER_01: been very fun. I used to be a musician, so I try to sit myself in front of my piano and in front of
[06:12] SPEAKER_01: something and just play or listen or try to write to music. And then during summer, I like to go
[06:17] SPEAKER_01: to the park. Even if it's for 15, 20 minutes a day, I like to sit with my back up against the tree.
[06:22] SPEAKER_01: That sounds cliche, but it really is something that helps you along. I think it's funny, because people
[06:28] SPEAKER_01: always say, oh, how can you live in Alberta? There's so much winter. And I said, Alberta is such a great
[06:33] SPEAKER_01: place. If we didn't have this winter, everyone would live here. That's why it's a certain type of
[06:37] SPEAKER_01: person that can live here, right? But those are some of the things that I do.
[06:42] SPEAKER_00: Hypothetical question for you. Imagine you were to start all over again and you just move to Edmonton,
[06:48] SPEAKER_00: but you don't know anybody. What would you do knowing what you do know now in terms of starting
[06:55] SPEAKER_01: a new business? When we started, I had never been in business before. I had been primarily a musician
[07:02] SPEAKER_01: and actor. Lino had owned a restaurant on the few restaurants on the coast and Portugal. And I
[07:09] SPEAKER_01: had a small investment in those restaurants. We had both worked in the restaurant industry
[07:13] SPEAKER_01: in some format or other. From the time we were 15, I was an actor in the singer, what actor singer
[07:19] SPEAKER_01: doesn't work in a restaurant. It's kind of like they go hand in hand. And Lino had worked,
[07:24] SPEAKER_01: started off as front of the house and eventually moved to the kitchen.
[07:29] SPEAKER_01: So we had some experience, but not a lot. Honestly, and this is speaking 100% honestly, if I
[07:36] SPEAKER_01: knew then what I know now, I would have gone into some form of program, like a business administration
[07:41] SPEAKER_01: program or something like that just to get more of an education. It doesn't mean that you can't do it
[07:45] SPEAKER_01: if you don't have that, but I think it makes things easier to be quite honest with you.
[07:48] SPEAKER_00: What's the first hour of your day look like when you get up in the morning? Do you have a specific
[07:53] SPEAKER_01: ritual routine or... I wake up first thing in the morning. The first thing I do is reach over for my
[07:58] SPEAKER_01: phone. The first thing I do is check our bank accounts. The next thing I do is check our online
[08:03] SPEAKER_01: reviews. And the next thing I do is check out I'm a huge rail Madrid Ben. So I check out all the
[08:09] SPEAKER_01: news articles, according to Real Madrid, which is soccer. Then I get up, have a cup of coffee,
[08:15] SPEAKER_01: and I try to do some weight training for at least half hour. And then I drive my kids to school.
[08:22] SPEAKER_00: That's my morning. Do you think entrepreneurs have to be weird or unique in a positive way,
[08:28] SPEAKER_01: or just wired differently? That's an interesting question, because I want to say that I think if you're
[08:34] SPEAKER_01: an entrepreneur, I think the primary thing at the very least at the beginning is you have to be a
[08:41] SPEAKER_01: risk taker. It's great to be pragmatic and be able to weigh things out, but I think that when you're
[08:45] SPEAKER_01: an entrepreneur, you have to be willing to take some risks and also have some self-belief that you
[08:50] SPEAKER_01: can kind of push through everything, because there are going to be times that are going to be
[08:54] SPEAKER_01: ridiculously hard times where you're going to doubt yourself. I mean, that's everyone, but I think
[08:59] SPEAKER_01: is an entrepreneur. And I find that when I look at my life before getting into business and now being
[09:06] SPEAKER_01: in business, I think the one constant in both those is the idea of taking risks, because I mean,
[09:13] SPEAKER_01: really, when you're an actor and a singer, you're kind of putting it all out there. And when you're
[09:17] SPEAKER_00: an entrepreneur, you're doing the same thing, right? Is there any book you're reading right now?
[09:23] SPEAKER_01: I can't remember the title, but it's a book about leadership. I'm reading it because it's
[09:27] SPEAKER_01: something that I think that, you know, when you have an ex-amount of employees, you always try to,
[09:31] SPEAKER_01: if we try to improve that portion of yourself, because I'm a 49-year-old man who is brought up in
[09:38] SPEAKER_01: one of the worst neighborhoods in Edmonton. I think it's taught me a lot about how to relate to
[09:44] SPEAKER_01: people and how to get along with pretty much anyone in any situation, but I think our climate has
[09:52] SPEAKER_01: changed specifically in the last 15 to 20 years. So lots of things that seemed normal to me back then,
[09:58] SPEAKER_01: the way that you addressed or were addressed, all that has changed is it's a totally different
[10:03] SPEAKER_01: rule book and you really need to understand the landscape that you're dealing with. So I,
[10:09] SPEAKER_01: in that, from that point of view, the point of you have leadership and trying to inspire
[10:12] SPEAKER_01: employees to do things, employees do things for a lot of different reasons now than they did when I was
[10:17] SPEAKER_01: young and when I was their age, so I need to be able to understand that. So I'm trying to constantly
[10:22] SPEAKER_01: observe, trying to constantly read articles, you know, I don't want to quote the millennial thing,
[10:27] SPEAKER_01: but they really do speak a different language than I do. So I try to stay on top of that.
[10:32] SPEAKER_00: Obviously being in the restaurant business, being an entrepreneur is very busy life.
[10:37] SPEAKER_00: How do you balance your work with your personal life?
[10:42] SPEAKER_01: That's a good question because I don't know if I do. That's probably a question you should ask
[10:47] SPEAKER_01: someone else. I think primarily the first and foremost, I'm extremely lucky in the sense that my,
[10:53] SPEAKER_01: that although I have children, my business partner does not have children. So he's the executive
[10:59] SPEAKER_01: chef for all the restaurants and he loves to be at the restaurant and loves to be working in the
[11:04] SPEAKER_01: restaurant. So that affords me at the very least my evenings Monday through Thursday,
[11:12] SPEAKER_01: or Sunday through Thursday where I don't have to be on call, I don't have to, I mean, of course,
[11:17] SPEAKER_01: I handle emergencies. I put out fires when necessary. That's just part of being an entrepreneur.
[11:22] SPEAKER_01: At the end of the day, you're the person responsible, at least in this industry, right? So there's
[11:26] SPEAKER_01: lots of things and this is probably a shortcoming of mine that only I can do. To be quite honest with you,
[11:30] SPEAKER_01: sometimes it's just easier to do it than to teach someone else how to do it. So, so I, over the years,
[11:40] SPEAKER_01: I would say for the first three or four years that we were in business, I didn't have a balance at all.
[11:46] SPEAKER_01: And it's funny because my, I think my, my personal life was suffering and my, again, my partner,
[11:52] SPEAKER_01: who's been my best friend since we were eight, sat down and said, you need to fix this for yourself
[11:58] SPEAKER_01: because it's affecting everything and you need, you need to have this balance. It goes, I understand,
[12:04] SPEAKER_01: cooking, I'm doing all these artistic things because he's an artist and so it's satisfying his
[12:09] SPEAKER_01: soul, but to somebody great, it wasn't satisfying mine and, and luckily, a bit of success and,
[12:16] SPEAKER_01: lots of great staff has afforded me the ability to kind of do what I want to do.
[12:22] SPEAKER_00: If you look at different professions out there, if you weren't doing what you're doing now,
[12:28] SPEAKER_00: both on the musical side and, say, on the entrepreneurial side as being a restaurant owner,
[12:35] SPEAKER_00: is there a profession that you would like to do?
[12:38] SPEAKER_01: It does kind of fall in between. I would say that if I could do anything, I would be a sportscaster.
[12:46] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, cool. Doing soccer games, no doubt. Soccer games, yeah, yeah, I do it all the time anyway.
[12:51] SPEAKER_01: The world's gotters all the way. Yeah, yeah. Now, honestly, my dream and I tell people this all
[12:57] SPEAKER_01: the time, my dream is to retire and my dread and just have season tickets to the game. And I
[13:04] SPEAKER_01: think for any job you would not want to do at all. I don't think I would like to be one of those
[13:09] SPEAKER_01: guys that cleans your snow and minus 30, whether that really is not appealing at all.
[13:16] SPEAKER_00: When you look at business, is there a favorite word sentence phrase that you like to use?
[13:23] SPEAKER_01: I always say the same thing. Take responsibility. Take responsibility. That's, I'd probably say at five
[13:28] SPEAKER_01: days, five times a day, whether I'm saying it's I'm plays, I'm saying it to myself. I say it to my
[13:32] SPEAKER_01: kids, take responsibility. You need to take responsibility. Why is that so important to you? Because at
[13:38] SPEAKER_01: the end of the day, if you leave things in somebody else's hands, and which isn't to say that you can't
[13:43] SPEAKER_01: you can't delegate because I believe delegating is part of taking responsibility, but
[13:49] SPEAKER_01: take the opportunity to to to be in charge of it. Whether from the simplest thing, you see a table
[13:55] SPEAKER_01: that's why I believe take responsibility for the fact that the table is wildly go and fix the tape.
[14:00] SPEAKER_01: Don't just leave it. I think that, you know, it's an interesting thing now that I think back to
[14:06] SPEAKER_01: that question that you said to me about what is it, how is it that entrepreneurs are wired differently?
[14:10] SPEAKER_01: I think entrepreneurs are wired to take responsibility. I think if you were on a desert island with somebody
[14:16] SPEAKER_01: that has an entrepreneurial spirit, in some form or other that person's going to take charge,
[14:20] SPEAKER_01: because it's just who they are. It doesn't mean that you have to be this great leader or a great boss,
[14:26] SPEAKER_01: but you are going to take responsibility at some point because you don't want to leave your fate
[14:32] SPEAKER_00: up to someone else. You know, when we're talking about words and phrases, is there a phrase that you
[14:39] SPEAKER_01: don't like or a word that you don't like? I hate the phrase. That's what they want. So if I hear my staff
[14:48] SPEAKER_01: or someone use the term they, so for example, there's a problem and they say, oh no, that's the way
[14:55] SPEAKER_01: they want it or that's the way they, it infuriates me because it's not a day. It's a we. It's a we. We are a team.
[15:02] SPEAKER_01: We are a family. Now, I used to work at Shaw cable when I was younger. That organization taught me that.
[15:09] SPEAKER_01: We, because they used to, people used to lose their minds if they heard the term they were. I was a
[15:14] SPEAKER_01: customer service rep at Shaw. And the first thing they said is never blame the company. Never blame the
[15:20] SPEAKER_01: company because it's an easy way out. And it also, again, doesn't take accountability or responsibility,
[15:25] SPEAKER_01: right? So that, I tell people that all the time. It is, it is a huge trigger for me. Huge.
[15:32] SPEAKER_00: If you had to pick one or two words to describe yourself, what would they be in line?
[15:38] SPEAKER_01: I think one of the words that I would use is adaptable. I think that I'm very adaptable. I think I
[15:45] SPEAKER_01: can adapt to pretty much any situation and have the fact that I started out as a singer and an actor.
[15:51] SPEAKER_01: And I'm now in business, which really you talk about the idea of being wired differently. Those
[15:57] SPEAKER_01: are two areas that are totally wired differently. And I think I've done okay. I would say adaptable. And
[16:05] SPEAKER_01: I really wasn't kidding about tired. I'm tired.
[16:09] SPEAKER_00: Is this speaking of being tired? Is there anything that keeps you up at night?
[16:13] SPEAKER_01: We've managed to grow our business to a certain degree. And I think the idea that
[16:19] SPEAKER_01: what keeps me up at night and I think about this all the time is just the responsibility of
[16:24] SPEAKER_01: you know, for lack of a better term employing all these people that can sometimes weigh
[16:28] SPEAKER_01: on you a little bit. You know, you look at the numbers, you look at stuff, you're trying to
[16:33] SPEAKER_01: keep margins at a certain percentage in your, in your wondering, how do I, how do I do that?
[16:38] SPEAKER_01: And then you have to start making some hard decisions or you choose not to make the decisions
[16:41] SPEAKER_01: and take the last that kind of stuff really can affect me. Now these days a lot of people have
[16:46] SPEAKER_00: quote unquote bucket lists. What sort of say the top couple of things on your bucket list?
[16:53] SPEAKER_01: You know what? I've been so, I really don't think about that much because I've been,
[16:59] SPEAKER_01: I've been so incredibly lucky in my life. I can kind of, when I want to do something, I usually do it
[17:05] SPEAKER_01: that which isn't to say, you know, like I haven't gone skydiving, which is obviously on my bucket list.
[17:10] SPEAKER_01: Honestly right now, I'm okay. I think I'm okay. There's nothing that screams out at me.
[17:16] SPEAKER_00: Over the years since you've been an entrepreneur, I'm sure you've gotten a lot of advice and
[17:21] SPEAKER_00: from different people. Are there some of the key pieces of advice that you receive that you can
[17:27] SPEAKER_01: pass on to entrepreneurs or aspiring entrepreneurs? I have, I got one piece of advice from a friend of
[17:33] SPEAKER_01: mine who owns a couple of companies. And she said to me, try not to make decisions based in fear
[17:45] SPEAKER_01: because decisions based in fear are usually irrational decisions and aren't always the best.
[17:50] SPEAKER_01: So for example, things are going down, whatever blah, blah, blah, this idea that you're going to
[17:54] SPEAKER_01: start cutting, cutting, cutting under the assumption that you're going to save money, when really you
[17:59] SPEAKER_01: might be shooting yourself in the foot, right? If you start using different products, you start
[18:02] SPEAKER_01: using different things, I think that's a really, really good piece of advice. Try not to make
[18:08] SPEAKER_01: decisions based in fear because they're irrational decisions, right? I'm going to give you a different
[18:13] SPEAKER_00: question here. Imagine this. There's a small tropical island just off of Fiji that only has one
[18:21] SPEAKER_00: phone booth there with no internet. We're going to drop you off there and you won't have a computer
[18:27] SPEAKER_00: or a smartphone tablet, any sort of device. You can use the phone booth located there anytime to
[18:32] SPEAKER_00: call the boat and we'll come pick you up. Now, how long would you last before you made that phone
[18:38] SPEAKER_00: call? And what do you think you'd do there while you were there? Right now, I'd probably last at least
[18:44] SPEAKER_01: anywhere from three days to a week. All, you know what, I say that, but I don't know. The things
[18:51] SPEAKER_01: that would drive me nuts are just not knowing the state of everything. My children, my wife, my
[18:56] SPEAKER_01: businesses, that would drive me nuts. I think if I knew that everything was okay and I could be on
[19:01] SPEAKER_01: that tropical island, I think I could last quite a while. But without that, I don't think I could last
[19:07] SPEAKER_01: more than a day to be honest with you. And I'd really be pushing it. It might be best.
[19:11] SPEAKER_00: Is there anything Christian that I didn't ask you about that you wanted to mention before we leave
[19:17] SPEAKER_01: today? No, I think that I think you got some pretty good questions in there. I think we covered a
[19:24] SPEAKER_00: lot of bases. It was good. And if any of our listeners wanted to get a hold of you, how could they
[19:29] SPEAKER_01: do that? They could just call the restaurants. Any one of the restaurants are going to the websites
[19:33] SPEAKER_00: and just send an email. That was good. Okay, thanks Christian for being our guest on Edmonton's
[19:39] SPEAKER_00: podcast. I've learned a lot about you and your business. And I'm sure listeners have as well.
[19:44] SPEAKER_00: Thanks a lot. Thank you so much for having me, Mario. Thanks for taking the time today to listen to
[19:49] SPEAKER_00: Edmonton's podcast on Canada's podcast network. We hope you enjoyed the show today.
[19:56] SPEAKER_00: Make sure you sign up for our newsletters and write a review for us on iTunes.
[20:02] SPEAKER_00: And then connect with us on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn,
[20:06] SPEAKER_00: at Canada's podcast. You can also check out what other entrepreneurs are doing across the country.
[20:13] SPEAKER_00: See you next time.