Mike Desjardins is CEO of ViRTUS, Which Focuses on Leadership Development and Strategic Planning

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[00:00] SPEAKER_02: Welcome to Canada's podcast, the number one podcast for entrepreneurs by entrepreneurs.
[00:09] SPEAKER_02: Hello, this is Robert Spiral coming to today with Vancouver's podcast, a member of the Canada's
[00:14] SPEAKER_02: podcast network where we talk to the entrepreneurs who are making it happen here, Vancouver,
[00:19] SPEAKER_02: British Columbia. Mike Desjardins is an entrepreneur, husband, dad, cross-fitter, skier,
[00:26] SPEAKER_02: yogi, and long-time meditator. His business, Virtus, has been on an 18-year journey focused
[00:33] SPEAKER_02: on making a difference in the lives of others through leadership, development, and strategic
[00:39] SPEAKER_02: planning. His clients are $100 million plus, medium to large enterprise organizations spread
[00:47] SPEAKER_02: across Canada. Virtus was proud to become certified as a B-Corp this past week. Well, Mike,
[00:55] SPEAKER_02: welcome to the show. Thanks for taking the time today to be here for all our listeners.
[01:00] SPEAKER_02: I appreciate your time, Robert. Great. Okay. I want you to tell us a little bit more about yourself
[01:06] SPEAKER_04: and give us the details on your current business. Sure. I think I mean the intro covered a lot of it.
[01:15] SPEAKER_04: You know, I live in Vancouver. I've had this business for 18 years now. Since 2002, I've been a member
[01:23] SPEAKER_04: of the entrepreneurs organization, and I've been in the same forum group for the past coming on 15
[01:29] SPEAKER_04: years with the same group of CEOs, and we meet monthly. So that's a big part of my life. The
[01:37] SPEAKER_04: business itself, Virtus, we do leadership development for, as you mentioned, $100 million
[01:43] SPEAKER_04: in larger clients. Most of our clients are actually quite a bit larger than that, but that's kind of
[01:53] SPEAKER_04: what comes from leadership development, and 10% of it comes from strategic planning.
[01:58] SPEAKER_04: All the leadership development is customized, so I don't have anything to sell anybody. It's
[02:02] SPEAKER_04: to be very much start with a needs analysis, and from there, we try to determine what the best
[02:07] SPEAKER_04: approach would be to develop the leaders all the way from CEOs and executives, directors,
[02:14] SPEAKER_04: managers, team leads, all the way through to high potential in an organization.
[02:19] SPEAKER_02: Okay, let's go back to 18 years ago. Did you need for financing to start your company,
[02:24] SPEAKER_02: and how do you currently make money in your business now?
[02:28] SPEAKER_04: It's a great question. Well, the financing actually came from the workforce that started the company,
[02:34] SPEAKER_04: and we each put in $25,000. This was in October of 2000. That was our C capital. That, and then not
[02:44] SPEAKER_04: paying ourselves for a year and a half. That also helped with cash flow.
[02:50] SPEAKER_04: And wrapping up lines of credit and all that kind of stuff. So that was really where the business
[02:55] SPEAKER_04: started. And then from there, I bought out my business partners a number of years ago, a couple
[03:02] SPEAKER_04: of them back in 2003 and the last one in 2008, and paid off all that bank that a long time ago.
[03:10] SPEAKER_04: And yeah, so since then, it's just been self-financed as a business all the way through to today.
[03:17] SPEAKER_04: And I'm sure it was a good question that you asked about your business.
[03:19] SPEAKER_02: I'm sure you made money.
[03:21] SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it's a great question. So we work with large organizations who are looking to develop
[03:27] SPEAKER_04: their leaders across their business. And they usually have in mind some type of outcome,
[03:32] SPEAKER_04: or we'll help them figure out what that outcome looks like. And they will build up a plan,
[03:38] SPEAKER_04: and in some cases that plan might take five or six years to actually roll out and
[03:44] SPEAKER_04: completely across the whole organization. Of course, new people are joining the organization,
[03:49] SPEAKER_04: people are retiring, people are quitting, people are getting fired. So there's always turnover
[03:52] SPEAKER_04: in leadership ranks. And we're constantly looking at how we think about developing the leaders
[03:59] SPEAKER_04: in the organization. So those organizations pay us to be in there, developing the leaders.
[04:05] SPEAKER_02: Okay, what is the long-term vision? And what will your company look like in the future? Do you
[04:10] SPEAKER_02: see the company expanding into other areas and where beyond Vancouver, BC, or even Canada?
[04:16] SPEAKER_04: It's a great question. I've always seen Vertis as an ongoing experiment. So from the very beginning,
[04:23] SPEAKER_04: I didn't come at this from a consulting perspective. I came at it from being a business executive.
[04:29] SPEAKER_04: And I looked at this business and thought, well, I don't know how to do consulting. So I'm going
[04:33] SPEAKER_04: to look at how everybody else does it. And then I'm going to chart my own path and figure out
[04:39] SPEAKER_04: what I think is the right way to do it. And it really got focused less on the approach that's
[04:44] SPEAKER_04: traditional in our marketplace, which is build a whole bunch of hours and then charge people
[04:49] SPEAKER_04: per hour. So you have been incentive to take a lot longer to do the work because you're getting
[04:54] SPEAKER_04: paid by the hour. I looked at that and said that doesn't seem right to me. I don't think that's
[05:00] SPEAKER_04: in the best interest of our clients. It doesn't really look like a partnership. So I found an
[05:04] SPEAKER_04: approach which was all about value, which said, instead, let's find out what this is going to cost
[05:09] SPEAKER_04: to do. Peg a number for the whole year for the client, set that number in stone, and then go about
[05:16] SPEAKER_04: achieving the goals they want to achieve and making sure they're getting the value that they want.
[05:21] SPEAKER_04: And if things have to change throughout the engagement, we realized that it's harder than we thought,
[05:26] SPEAKER_04: there's more work that needs to be involved. There's no change in the price of the client.
[05:31] SPEAKER_04: So that means it's really a true partnership in terms of the approach. In terms of this ongoing
[05:36] SPEAKER_04: experiment and where it's going for the future, I've got to really talented and incredibly smart
[05:41] SPEAKER_04: a group of people that run this business for me day to day. And we meet every year, we go away for
[05:48] SPEAKER_04: a week. We've been to Scott's Dale a couple of years. We've done Phoenix. We've done
[05:55] SPEAKER_04: Palm Springs, Mexico two years. This year we've rented this amazing house on Vancouver Island on
[06:02] SPEAKER_04: the water. And we basically spent a week together to decide where we want to go over the next year.
[06:07] SPEAKER_04: And then what that looks like for Veris over the next three to five years. Our focus right now
[06:11] SPEAKER_04: is on ensuring that we are developing the very best strategies for helping leaders change their
[06:19] SPEAKER_04: behaviors. Because at the end of the day, that's what it's all about. If we can help somebody change
[06:24] SPEAKER_04: the behaviors that aren't working for them to behaviors that are more productive for them,
[06:30] SPEAKER_04: they're going to be a different person. And if we get a chance to do that with all the leaders in
[06:34] SPEAKER_04: the organization, changing all the behaviors of all the leaders, that's a cultural revolution
[06:38] SPEAKER_04: for that organization. So our focus, as you mentioned earlier, around wanting to make a difference
[06:44] SPEAKER_04: in the lives of others is to continue to do that and to continue to expand. Right now, we work
[06:48] SPEAKER_04: across Canada. And we're in the process of working on some alliances and partnerships, which will
[06:54] SPEAKER_04: help to expand that reach into the United States. And also we're looking at different lines of work
[07:00] SPEAKER_04: that are adjacent to the work that we do. In particular, work helping to do very large-scale conflict
[07:07] SPEAKER_04: resolution and helping organizations that are in a stuck point where they just can't get
[07:12] SPEAKER_04: their belief of how the world works is actually holding them back from breaking out
[07:17] SPEAKER_04: ahead of their industry and helping them rethink how they think about the work that they do
[07:22] SPEAKER_04: day to day. So that's kind of the things that are exciting to me. We're looking at virtual reality
[07:26] SPEAKER_04: right now. We've always had a passion for technology, but only in that it's something that will help
[07:33] SPEAKER_04: leaders grow faster or help us do the work that we're doing more efficiently. We're not
[07:38] SPEAKER_02: really big fans on technology for technology today. Okay, well we've learned a little bit about you
[07:44] SPEAKER_02: and your company, but we want to talk about doing business in Vancouver now.
[07:48] SPEAKER_02: Sure. What are the biggest benefits for you and being an entrepreneur here in Vancouver,
[07:53] SPEAKER_02: BC? I want you to give us some of the good points about starting a company here, but I also want
[07:58] SPEAKER_02: you to give us some of the tough things or challenges for listeners so they can keep an eye
[08:02] SPEAKER_04: out of them. Well, it's interesting because it is a double. The benefit and the
[08:08] SPEAKER_04: the detriment are actually the same. And I learned this early on. So when we started this,
[08:14] SPEAKER_04: I was in a position where I had been traveling with the previous company that I'd worked for.
[08:19] SPEAKER_04: They put me through my business degree and I had been traveling all over North America for
[08:25] SPEAKER_04: this group of companies. And I burnt out in San Diego in La Jolla at 27 years old on a business
[08:32] SPEAKER_04: trip. And I realized that my life was unmanageable and I needed to come up with a new plan and
[08:36] SPEAKER_04: that led to doing this, to doing burnus. And when I popped into this, all of a sudden I realized,
[08:43] SPEAKER_04: oh wait, I've been so busy building somebody else's business for them for the last 10 years that
[08:49] SPEAKER_04: I forgot to keep track of all my contacts and connections in Vancouver. And so all of a sudden
[08:56] SPEAKER_04: I'm doing this startup. And I realized that I'm in the business of really a relationship in
[09:01] SPEAKER_04: trust. And I've not done a great job of keeping track of all the people I went to high school with,
[09:06] SPEAKER_04: all the people I went to business school with. So I kind of had to reestablish the relationships.
[09:11] SPEAKER_04: And Vancouver is definitely a relationship city. And you know, and that's one of the joys of
[09:19] SPEAKER_04: working here actually is that when you build up great relationships in this city, it can carry you
[09:25] SPEAKER_04: across. I mean, there's the whole thing of Kevin Bacon, six degrees of freedom of connection,
[09:30] SPEAKER_04: here, I think it's two or three max. So it is pretty easy to know somebody who knows the person
[09:37] SPEAKER_04: you want to meet. And so it really is about the strength of the relationships that you develop.
[09:42] SPEAKER_04: The challenge, of course, is if you're new to Vancouver and I've had a competitor that moved here
[09:47] SPEAKER_04: from Calgary. And he, you know, he reached out when he was going to move his firm here. And
[09:52] SPEAKER_04: and so he's coming to the market and he's going to be competing with us. He wanted to say hi and
[09:56] SPEAKER_04: so we went out for lunch and and a year later, he took me out for lunch again and he said,
[10:04] SPEAKER_04: yeah, I think we're going to pull out of Vancouver. And I'm like, oh my god, it looked like what
[10:07] SPEAKER_04: happened. And he said, I'm tired of hearing about Curtis and I'm tired of hearing about your name.
[10:13] SPEAKER_04: We've realized that this is a city based on relationships and you have them. And I sent him,
[10:20] SPEAKER_04: well, yeah, I mean, it is, but you just have to put your time in to build the relationships.
[10:24] SPEAKER_04: I said, well, how long did that take you? And I said, oh, probably the first five years of the
[10:27] SPEAKER_04: business where we was a real struggle to grow this business without having a really solid relationship
[10:33] SPEAKER_04: based around town. And he said, I'm not willing to invest that time. I'm like, okay, let's totally
[10:37] SPEAKER_04: fare. But that's that my experience is what it's going to take. So after a year of being here,
[10:42] SPEAKER_02: he decided to focus his business back in Alberta. Okay, we do some of our best workouts side of the
[10:49] SPEAKER_02: office. Is there a place in the lower mainline close to where you live or work, where you like to go
[10:53] SPEAKER_02: recharge or get inspired with ideas or just think about your business? And does it change with
[10:58] SPEAKER_04: the season considering all the rain we get here? I love the rain actually. So I think I mean,
[11:06] SPEAKER_04: normally from that perspective, I mean, rain in Vancouver is, you know, it's kind of the,
[11:11] SPEAKER_04: it just is what it is. We live in a rainforest. People when they travel here, they say, oh my god,
[11:15] SPEAKER_04: it's so clean. It's so green. It's like, yeah, because there rains all the time. That's why it's
[11:20] SPEAKER_04: so clean and green. So, but for me, when I see that it's raining in Vancouver, I know that it's
[11:25] SPEAKER_04: snowing in Whistler. And we have another home in Whistler. And we spend a tremendous amount of time
[11:31] SPEAKER_04: there where they're, you know, the whole Christmas break, where they're spring break, every weekend
[11:35] SPEAKER_04: during this season. And halfway between Vancouver and Whistler, there's a little city called,
[11:41] SPEAKER_04: a little town called Squamish. And when we're on the road, Friday afternoon, we pick up our
[11:47] SPEAKER_04: daughter and we're driving to Whistler. And by the time we hit Squamish, my brain is kind of
[11:51] SPEAKER_04: disconnected from Vancouver. And I get into this mode where I feel like I'm on vacation every single
[11:57] SPEAKER_04: weekend that we're up there. And it turns out that I have a ton of clients that ski and are at
[12:03] SPEAKER_04: Whistler and they're every weekend. And so I get a chance to connect with them, but it's just a
[12:07] SPEAKER_04: different vibe. Like I ran into them in the city in Vancouver. I might say hi to them at a coffee
[12:12] SPEAKER_04: shop, but I'm not going to spend seven hours skiing like the way I would in Whistler, seven hours
[12:17] SPEAKER_04: skiing with them and hanging out and going for dinner. And it just feels different. And so I find
[12:22] SPEAKER_04: that the really Whistler and airplanes, I don't know why airplanes, but airplanes have always been
[12:29] SPEAKER_04: those and Whistler have been the two places where I feel like I get my most creative energy,
[12:36] SPEAKER_04: my best white space, the places where the ideas really start to coalesce. Meditation has always
[12:44] SPEAKER_04: helped me with that for the last 10 years. But for some reason, set and setting seems to help even
[12:52] SPEAKER_02: more. Okay, we have a lot of international listeners. So this next question I want you to speak to
[12:57] SPEAKER_02: them is you're going to start all over again and you just moved here to Vancouver BC, but this time
[13:03] SPEAKER_02: you don't know anyone knowing what you know now. What would you do? How would you go about starting
[13:08] SPEAKER_04: all over again as an entrepreneur? Well, this took me a long time to figure out, but it was actually
[13:14] SPEAKER_04: thanks to Malcolm Gladwell. I read his book, the tipping point, and in it he talked about three
[13:21] SPEAKER_04: different types of people that are important to connect with when you're trying to grow a business.
[13:26] SPEAKER_04: One was called a salesperson, one was called a mail-in, and the other was called a connector.
[13:30] SPEAKER_04: And what I read about these connectors, it turns out that these are people that know a lot of people,
[13:35] SPEAKER_04: but they don't know a lot of people at a shallow level. They know a lot of people at a deep level.
[13:40] SPEAKER_04: People trust them. They're well connected in the city, and there's they're a bit hard to find,
[13:48] SPEAKER_04: but if you start asking around and you ask, like, who's a really well-connected person, which is
[13:53] SPEAKER_04: what I did? All of a sudden, I realized in my age category, there was probably about 10 or 15 people
[13:58] SPEAKER_04: that were really well connected. So I reached out to them and I introduced myself, or I got friends
[14:03] SPEAKER_04: to introduce me, got to know them. They're wonderful people, right? Of course, because everybody likes
[14:08] SPEAKER_04: them, they're well connected. And so I got to know them, really easy to become friends with them,
[14:13] SPEAKER_04: because they're such lovely people. And all of a sudden, I said to them, you know, what can I do to
[14:19] SPEAKER_04: help you? I'm still trying to grow this business, but who are the types of clients you're looking for?
[14:24] SPEAKER_04: And so I made it a point of trying to figure out how I could help these connectors before I ask for
[14:28] SPEAKER_04: anything from them. And what I learned really quickly is that if you do things for connectors,
[14:35] SPEAKER_04: you don't have to ask for anything in return. They just want to help, because that's how they're wired.
[14:40] SPEAKER_04: And so for me, it was my goal of trying to become better connected was to was satisfied through
[14:47] SPEAKER_04: meeting and becoming friends with all these connectors. And then as a result, I became one too.
[14:53] SPEAKER_04: And one day, I realized that, wow, there was there was a good 10 or 11 people that I was meeting
[14:58] SPEAKER_04: for coffee or lunch with every single month to talk about business and to make introductions for
[15:04] SPEAKER_04: them, open doors. They were doing the same for me. And it dawned on me. They didn't know each other
[15:09] SPEAKER_04: at all. They didn't even met. And so I reached out to all of them and I said, hey, you guys don't know
[15:15] SPEAKER_04: each other, but I meet with all of you once a month. Would you be open to getting together once a
[15:21] SPEAKER_04: month as a group? And every single person said yes. And so that was the start of in 2009 of
[15:27] SPEAKER_04: something that I regretfully called the Happy Dance Club. Regretfully because I think it's a little
[15:32] SPEAKER_04: silly now. But so I started the Happy Dance Club and I invited these 11 CEOs to come together
[15:40] SPEAKER_04: and basically meet and help each other grow each other's businesses. And I thought of it as an
[15:46] SPEAKER_04: experiment. Like I'll do this for six months. And you know, if it works great and if it doesn't
[15:51] SPEAKER_04: know harm no foul, I'll have introduced some amazing people, which I have a deep amount of respect
[15:55] SPEAKER_04: for and that'll be it. Well, fast forward 10 years. And there's been change over in some of the
[16:02] SPEAKER_04: members of the group, but that group has still been meeting every month for the past 10 years.
[16:07] SPEAKER_04: And all of our businesses grown substantially. A number of our key clients have come from
[16:14] SPEAKER_04: introductions from members of that group. And I'm just so happy to call every single person in that
[16:21] SPEAKER_02: group a close friend. What does the first hour look like for you when you get up the morning?
[16:26] SPEAKER_02: And do you have a specific routine or a ritual that helps you get me able to be able to start your day?
[16:31] SPEAKER_04: I do. I do. It's a great question. I wake up at 6.30 and my alarm goes off. Two days and
[16:38] SPEAKER_04: Thursdays. I'm across 5th. Mondays and Fridays. I go to the gym and our building and I run and I
[16:45] SPEAKER_04: do core exercises. And Wednesdays I stretch. So Saturdays and Sundays I ski. So that's kind of my
[16:51] SPEAKER_04: that's my weekend and nutshell. How I start my day. Once I've done my exercise when I'm in Vancouver.
[16:57] SPEAKER_04: The first thing I do when I hit my desk is I open my journal and I do some morning pages. It's
[17:05] SPEAKER_04: kind of a combination of the freedom journal, the five-minute journal, Tim Ferris' morning ritual.
[17:12] SPEAKER_04: I've kind of built my own sort of journaling practice that I do every morning. And it takes about
[17:18] SPEAKER_04: five, seven minutes for me to kind of dump my thoughts out. So that's how it starts. If I haven't
[17:24] SPEAKER_04: got a stack of the meetings then I'll usually meditate right after I've done the journaling.
[17:29] SPEAKER_04: And if I don't have time to meditate in the morning and I'll choose to do it either later in the day
[17:34] SPEAKER_04: or before I go to bed at night. But that's my morning routine. Do you think entrepreneurs have to be
[17:40] SPEAKER_02: weird or unique in a positive way or are wired differently? My wife, I wish my wife can answer
[17:47] SPEAKER_04: this question for you. When we first met, which was coming on, it was 11 years ago,
[17:56] SPEAKER_04: she said to me, I've met a lot of the people that you know. Some of them they're weird. They're wired
[18:03] SPEAKER_04: differently. Some of them are socially awkward. But somehow they're crazy successful.
[18:10] SPEAKER_04: And I said to her, you know what? I'm like, they're very good at one thing. And they've more than
[18:15] SPEAKER_04: doubled down on that one thing. And even if other areas of their life maybe don't function in a way
[18:21] SPEAKER_04: that they would like them to, they have this incredible skill set that is something that they
[18:27] SPEAKER_04: have worked really hard at. And they have an incredible amount of persistence and resilience that
[18:33] SPEAKER_04: goes along with that. And they don't take no for an answer ever. So I think that, yeah, that
[18:39] SPEAKER_04: entrepreneurs are wired differently. I would never stop anyone from going down the path of
[18:46] SPEAKER_04: entrepreneurship because I think that it's a way of, you know, testing your belief in yourself
[18:53] SPEAKER_04: because fundamentally entrepreneurship tests our belief, my belief in myself on an ongoing
[19:00] SPEAKER_04: basis because if I don't have the confidence, the persistence and the resilience to either
[19:05] SPEAKER_04: chart the path or figure out how to get out of a challenge or decide what we're going to do next,
[19:12] SPEAKER_04: nobody else is going to. That's my job. That's my role. And it has been that way from the very beginning.
[19:17] SPEAKER_02: What books are you reading now and why are even audiobooks? And can you recommend any books for
[19:23] SPEAKER_04: listeners who are also as buying entrepreneurs? So I think the book that I, what I'm reading right
[19:31] SPEAKER_04: now, so I'm reading Cracking the CrossFit Open, the CrossFit Open, Seraph on February 21, I'm still
[19:37] SPEAKER_04: deciding if I want to do it again this year, but I'm reading that book. I'm reading a book called
[19:41] SPEAKER_04: the Coaching Habit, which is by Michael Bungate's Stangate. I'm reading another book by somebody
[19:48] SPEAKER_04: on my team, somebody who works on my team, Tana Hemensley, and her book is called The Waken Your
[19:54] SPEAKER_04: Authentic Leadership. And I'm listening to an audiobook right now by Yubal, I think his last
[20:02] SPEAKER_04: image is Javar Harari. Yubal Harari called the 21st century. And it's kind of a eclectic
[20:11] SPEAKER_04: mix of books. I think if I was starting all over again, oh, you know what, I'm trying to remember
[20:18] SPEAKER_04: the name of it. The gentleman who was the head of Apple marketing around the Macintosh, not Scully,
[20:26] SPEAKER_04: but before him, there's a gentleman who was the head of marketing at Apple. And he's got an amazing
[20:34] SPEAKER_04: startup book. You know what I'll do? I'll find it and maybe we can throw it in the show.
[20:37] SPEAKER_02: Okay, sure. That's good. Any online or offline tools you use on a daily basis?
[20:43] SPEAKER_04: Online or offline tools that I use on a daily basis. I mean, the one that I just love is the
[20:51] SPEAKER_04: Muse 2 brain sensing headset for meditation. So I bought the original Muse about a year ago,
[20:58] SPEAKER_04: and I loved it. And then when Muse introduced the Muse 2 more recently that measures
[21:04] SPEAKER_04: your pulse as well, and your breathing, I bought that one. And I really like it. I mean,
[21:10] SPEAKER_04: as I mentioned, a long time meditator, I've used the headspace app before that I used the meditation
[21:16] SPEAKER_04: podcast. But since I've got the Muse, I've found that what it's done is it's really helped me to
[21:22] SPEAKER_04: train my brain to be able to focus more. I've got undiagnosed, but my wife has diagnosed
[21:29] SPEAKER_04: ADHD. And I think that's a relatively common thing in entrepreneurs. And calming down that
[21:37] SPEAKER_04: monkey mind is something that I've found incredibly helpful in staying present, both with my family,
[21:43] SPEAKER_04: with my clients, with the people I work with, with my friends. And the Muse brain sensing
[21:50] SPEAKER_04: headset has helped tremendously. I don't leave the house without Apple AirPods
[21:57] SPEAKER_04: in my ears, because I'm constantly listening to blogs or sorry podcasts. As I'm walking around
[22:07] SPEAKER_04: Vancouver or I'm listening to an audio book. So those pretty much go everywhere with me.
[22:13] SPEAKER_04: I've just been working on my 2019 goals. And a little bit slow this year, I've been kind of
[22:17] SPEAKER_04: struggling. Everything's going amazingly well right now. And I'm struggling to think about what
[22:21] SPEAKER_04: really matters to me. And so I'm re-re-re-re-looking at my all-time favorite book, which is by Greg McCallan
[22:29] SPEAKER_04: called Essentialism. And it really is whole principle is about if you that we say a lukewarm yes
[22:36] SPEAKER_04: to things in life that we really should say no to. And so our choices really need to be either
[22:40] SPEAKER_04: hell yes or no. And I'm rethinking about 2019 in the context of that. So there's a tool that I use
[22:48] SPEAKER_04: a website called LifeTick.com. And what LifeTick does is it's basically a goal tracker. I've used it
[22:54] SPEAKER_04: for about seven years now. And I thought of Australia. It's a really simple tool. It's like 20 bucks a
[23:00] SPEAKER_04: year. And it really helps me to keep track of my personal goals and my business and family goals.
[23:07] SPEAKER_04: It's a great habit tracker as well. And there's a habit tracking in peace to it in terms of how it
[23:12] SPEAKER_04: sets up. So that's something I would visit every week, but the air pods and the mues are something I
[23:18] SPEAKER_01: use every day. If you weren't doing what do you do now? What would you like to do for a profession?
[23:26] SPEAKER_03: That's a really good question. I actually don't know. I love what I do.
[23:33] SPEAKER_03: I got into just like beyond passionate about what I do. I
[23:41] SPEAKER_03: can't think of professional. Yeah, I honestly.
[23:43] SPEAKER_04: Professional, professional, professional. I know I skiing is one of those snow because you know
[23:48] SPEAKER_04: sometimes you take your hobby and you turn it into a profession that joy goes the way. And skiing
[23:52] SPEAKER_04: is something that's really social for me. And so I do it because I love it. Crossfit, you know,
[23:57] SPEAKER_04: crossfit. You can take it to the regionals. You can make it a sport. And I don't do it for that. I
[24:02] SPEAKER_04: feel healthy. I've got a six and a half year old daughter. I'm 46 years old. I want to be, you know,
[24:09] SPEAKER_04: rock climbing with her and going healthy skiing and doing any sort of running a marathon as she
[24:15] SPEAKER_04: wants to run. I want to do that stuff with her as long as she wants to hang out and do stuff with
[24:20] SPEAKER_04: me like that. I want to be physically fit for her. So yeah, I don't really, there's nothing else
[24:27] SPEAKER_04: that I would rather be doing. If there was anything that would be in the technology space, I
[24:32] SPEAKER_04: love technology. I follow a ton of technology blogs. I buy every cool little gadget that comes out.
[24:40] SPEAKER_04: You know, I bought it, I bought a Tesla recently just because I just couldn't fathom getting
[24:46] SPEAKER_04: anything other than a Tesla just because of the technology that it's in it. I'm like, it's
[24:50] SPEAKER_04: like driving the future and I just had to have it. So yeah, I think I'd do something probably in
[24:56] SPEAKER_02: the technology space. But what? I don't know, no idea. What kind of a job would you not like to do
[25:01] SPEAKER_04: couldn't do it? Anything that had a lot of detail to it, it is not my strong suit. I have very smart
[25:08] SPEAKER_04: talented people around me that have a high level of detail acuity and I'm grateful for them.
[25:14] SPEAKER_04: I, anything that would involve a ton of detail would just not be the right thing for me.
[25:19] SPEAKER_02: In business, what is your favorite word, quote or sentence that you like to use?
[25:26] SPEAKER_03: Oh wow, that's a tough one. I have a lot. Can you give me one?
[25:30] Speaker UNKNOWN: Can you give me one?
[25:31] SPEAKER_04: Quote. Yeah, well, it's from, there's one that I used that one of the facilitators of
[25:39] SPEAKER_04: Vertis is famous for saying and I just love it. It's about change. And he said,
[25:45] SPEAKER_04: you know, people don't mind change. They just don't want to be changed.
[25:50] SPEAKER_04: And that's Jeffrey Kerni who said that very smart man. And I just love that because it's true,
[25:56] SPEAKER_04: right? We don't mind when we're the author's authors of change. But in an organization,
[26:01] SPEAKER_04: if we're not the author of the change, sometimes we can feel like the victim of the change.
[26:05] SPEAKER_04: And that doesn't feel great.
[26:08] SPEAKER_03: Which your least favorite word or sentence you do not like to hear?
[26:16] SPEAKER_03: Well, that's impossible. Or I can't. Or that's our policy.
[26:26] SPEAKER_03: Three things on like just watch me.
[26:29] SPEAKER_04: If you had actually throwing out the challenge, you might be wondering what you say
[26:33] SPEAKER_04: because all three of those things are ridiculous. So just watch me.
[26:36] SPEAKER_02: Okay, if you had to pick one or two words to describe yourself, what would it be and why?
[26:44] SPEAKER_04: Curious, energetic, uh, intuitive. I always think about how my wife's brain would describe me. She
[26:51] SPEAKER_04: would probably say, uh, she always says that I have two modes on and off. Like, are they going
[26:58] SPEAKER_04: a hundred miles an hour or at a dead stop? So I'd say probably energetic is there?
[27:05] SPEAKER_03: Um, far to ask my close friends, I think probably say thoughtful.
[27:09] SPEAKER_03: What keeps you up at night if it's anything?
[27:13] SPEAKER_04: I love the strategic side of the work that I do. And I'm super curious about the future
[27:24] SPEAKER_04: of leadership development, the future of learning for adults and how machine learning
[27:29] SPEAKER_04: and artificial intelligence is going to shift the way that the world works, but also the way that we
[27:35] SPEAKER_03: view how we interface with the world. And I think what keeps me up is trying to stay ahead of
[27:43] SPEAKER_04: all of that. Not in the mean staying ahead of that is probably not the right way of describing it,
[27:47] SPEAKER_04: but staying abreast, I guess, of what's happening out there in the world. Not just in our space,
[27:52] SPEAKER_04: but I've got this deep curiosity for how the whole world works. Every industry, every space,
[27:58] SPEAKER_04: everything, I'm deeply curious to know all of the work. I'm constantly researching things. I'm
[28:03] SPEAKER_04: going down these rabbit holes. And I think that's what keeps me up is knowing, is am I doing the right
[28:09] SPEAKER_04: things? Am I guiding the company in the right direction? Am I doing the right research? Am I talking
[28:13] SPEAKER_04: to the right people to get a full sum appreciation of where the world is going and how that affects the
[28:19] SPEAKER_02: work we do and the way we partner with their client? Okay, I want you to give us the top three things
[28:25] SPEAKER_02: on your inspired lifeless. This could be whether you want to travel more, TEDx talk, write books,
[28:30] SPEAKER_04: philanthropy, anything like that? Yeah, so real estate. So one of my things I've always been
[28:38] SPEAKER_04: interested in is as a side little project to vertus is to start investing in income producing
[28:46] SPEAKER_04: real estate. So that's important to me. Outside of that, I used to have, you know, I wanted to write
[28:56] SPEAKER_04: a book at one point. I wanted to do a podcast at one point. And then I started getting written
[29:04] SPEAKER_04: about in books. And I started getting asked like this podcast, for instance, to be interviewed.
[29:09] SPEAKER_04: And I thought, oh, that's a lot less work. If you're the person being interviewed or if you're
[29:14] SPEAKER_04: the person that the book that is being quoted or a story about me has gone into a book. And
[29:20] SPEAKER_04: I actually like that more now that I see it. I enjoy that. So my joy is coming from continuing
[29:28] SPEAKER_04: to build this business. I have a lot of amazing people that I work with. And I love the fact that
[29:32] SPEAKER_04: the bigger that we get, the more opportunity it provides for them, for their career growth,
[29:38] SPEAKER_04: for them financially. I love that. You know, I love that we get to work with an eclectic
[29:46] SPEAKER_04: group of clients and industries. And as we get larger, we work with larger and larger clients. And so
[29:53] SPEAKER_04: because everything we do is custom, you know, nobody brings me to easy problems.
[29:58] SPEAKER_04: Right? If it was easy, they could do it themselves. We get the tough stuff. And I love that. Because
[30:02] SPEAKER_04: everything is new all the time. And each organization has its own idiosyncrasies. And I
[30:09] SPEAKER_04: have to figure out what is the right thing for them. And I love that. I love the fact that I get
[30:13] SPEAKER_04: to do this. And this is my job. I just feel so lucky that I landed on a career where my personal
[30:20] SPEAKER_04: purpose of making a difference in the lives of others is exactly the purpose of my business.
[30:24] SPEAKER_04: Like I feel so lucky that I get to do that. Do you have any advice that you may have received
[30:30] SPEAKER_02: that you can pass on to entrepreneur servers? Come here.
[30:36] SPEAKER_04: Any advice that I do. And I'm just going to say that the book I was referencing before is by
[30:41] SPEAKER_04: Guy Kawasaki. And it's called the part of the start. And I wish I would have read that before
[30:47] SPEAKER_04: I started my business because I cried through some of those chapters thinking about the mistakes
[30:53] SPEAKER_04: that I can make that Guy Kawasaki seemed to know the answers to you upfront. So I wish I would have
[30:58] SPEAKER_04: read that book first. And advice for entrepreneurs starting a business. Your friends and family
[31:07] SPEAKER_04: are not going to get it. Some of them will. Some of them won't well pass the point of their
[31:14] SPEAKER_03: comfort zone for your adventure. They would give up. And you keep going. That's probably the
[31:23] SPEAKER_04: thing that surprised me the most was that when it wasn't working or I was still trying to figure
[31:28] SPEAKER_04: it out. And that people close to me would say, maybe you should do something different. Maybe
[31:34] SPEAKER_04: you should go back and get another job and shut the business down. And I'm like, no, I'm close.
[31:39] SPEAKER_04: I just, I gotta keep going. If I keep going, I know I can figure it out. And I look back at it.
[31:45] SPEAKER_04: And I think if I listened, I wouldn't have what I have today. And what I have today is amazing.
[31:51] SPEAKER_04: And so I think that if you're starting a business, you need a small group of people who believe in
[31:58] SPEAKER_04: you. And a whole bunch of people are not going to believe in your vision and not believe in your
[32:02] SPEAKER_04: dream. And it's because it scares them to consider doing it. They don't think that it's possible.
[32:08] SPEAKER_04: And that's cool. They can stay where they are. But you go and do what you want to do.
[32:13] SPEAKER_02: Okay, Mike. Are you ready to have some fun? Yeah, absolutely. I'm already having fun.
[32:18] SPEAKER_02: Okay. We're going to have a little bit more fun. As you know, entrepreneurs are always connected.
[32:24] SPEAKER_02: We're always online. We're very busy people. But we're going to cheek you away from all that.
[32:30] SPEAKER_02: There's a small tropical island just off the feet. It only has one foam booth there. There is no
[32:35] SPEAKER_02: internet. This place does exist. We're going to drop you out there and you won't have those
[32:40] SPEAKER_02: computer or a smartphone or tablet. You can use the foam booth located there on the island to
[32:45] SPEAKER_02: call the boat. We'll come pick you up. How long would you last before you made that call? And what
[32:51] SPEAKER_04: would you do while you were there? I mean, I would last about 20 seconds. I would pick up the phone
[32:58] SPEAKER_04: and I would call and the boat. And I would tell them, my wife and daughter need to get on a plane.
[33:05] SPEAKER_04: This island is amazing. Get them on the boat and bring them here. And we'll stay here for a month.
[33:12] SPEAKER_04: And the three of us will figure it out. And then in a month, come back and get us.
[33:17] SPEAKER_00: So your daughter can handle no internet. Your wife can no internet. You know internet.
[33:22] SPEAKER_04: Without issue. I honestly, you know, I feel like there's this addiction to, I mean, I know there's
[33:30] SPEAKER_04: an addiction to the technology. And my wife and I talk about the time having a young daughter
[33:34] SPEAKER_04: is in grade one. And we bought her an iPad when she was two years old. And we said, you know,
[33:39] SPEAKER_04: we wanted to learn how to use this device. But we also want to learn how to respect it and
[33:44] SPEAKER_04: understand that that it can be too much of a good thing. And by not restricting it, she has really
[33:50] SPEAKER_04: healthy boundaries around that. She puts it away. And she's like, I'd rather color it, I'd rather play
[33:54] SPEAKER_04: with my dolls. Instead of craving it, which I see sometimes kids are craving it. And I mean,
[33:58] SPEAKER_04: that just be that might just be her personality. And I'm not suggesting that this is for everyone.
[34:03] SPEAKER_04: But for Lily, she has really developed a really healthy way around technology. And so, you know,
[34:12] SPEAKER_04: I think we would do fine. Like we have so much fun. The three of us, when we go to Hawaii, we have
[34:18] SPEAKER_04: an annual 10 day trip that we do in the fall. And my phone goes in the safe and so does Sabrina's.
[34:25] SPEAKER_04: And we just head out for the day and we don't check them. We don't post. No, we'll eventually,
[34:31] SPEAKER_04: every couple of days, we'll go and post it. But I put it out of office on whenever I go on vacation,
[34:36] SPEAKER_04: and that's 13 weeks a year. And I don't check my email. I just, it'll deal with that when I get
[34:43] SPEAKER_04: back. My phone's turned off and it goes to a voicemail and it says, if you need something, here's
[34:48] SPEAKER_04: all the people you can talk to. I don't know, Robert, if you received my out of office over the
[34:51] SPEAKER_04: holidays, I'll forget it. But yeah, there's explicit instructions. Here's all the, I got this from
[34:55] SPEAKER_04: Tim Ferris. You know, he said like, oh, just leave instructions about who to talk to. And so,
[35:01] SPEAKER_04: I put all of that out there. And then my clients have been incredibly respectful.
[35:05] SPEAKER_04: They're busy people as well. And they respect vacation. They want to have a real vacation too.
[35:10] SPEAKER_04: And so I just shut it down. So be on an island with no technology for a month. I mean, I've,
[35:15] SPEAKER_04: again, I've incredibly smart group of people run my company. They can handle anything.
[35:21] SPEAKER_04: The biggest challenges that we've had as a business, they just soared right through it. So,
[35:27] SPEAKER_04: and then on a personal perspective, also my friends in a month, be fine.
[35:31] SPEAKER_02: Okay, great. We're going to wrap things up here. How can our listeners get whole of you?
[35:35] SPEAKER_02: Is there anything you'd like to add before you leave us today?
[35:39] SPEAKER_04: I really appreciate you making time to have a chat. It's been quite a journey. I thought it was
[35:45] SPEAKER_04: going to be one of these straight line type things. And it hasn't been. It's been all over the map.
[35:51] SPEAKER_04: The highs and the lows and the, you know, the decisions to make along the way. And I wouldn't
[35:57] SPEAKER_04: trade it for anything. It's created a really amazing life for myself and for my family.
[36:03] SPEAKER_04: Again, I feel really lucky and really blessed that I have what I have today. And I get to work with
[36:10] SPEAKER_04: these amazing people that I get to work with. Yeah, that's, I think that's the only thing I wanted to
[36:15] SPEAKER_04: add. And then how to reach me. Our website is verdesync.com. Be as a Victor, I as an Indigo,
[36:23] SPEAKER_04: Romeo, Tango, Uniform Sierra, Indigo, November Charlie.com. And there's lots about us on there.
[36:30] SPEAKER_04: And yeah, if there's anyone out there in the world and you're struggling with how you're going to
[36:35] SPEAKER_04: try to develop your leaders and you're growing your business and you realize you actually can't
[36:39] SPEAKER_04: achieve your strategy unless you're able to develop your leaders faster. Give us a call. If we
[36:44] SPEAKER_04: can help, we'll certainly help. And if it's not us that can help, we usually know who the right
[36:48] SPEAKER_02: people to talk to are. Great. Okay. Well, thanks for coming on the show. I've learned a lot about
[36:53] SPEAKER_02: you and I'm sure listeners have as well. Thanks for your time. Have a great day. We'll see you next time.