Lisa Shelley, CEO of Neal’s Yard Remedies Talks About the Challenges of Running a Small Business

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[00:37] SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Canada's podcast, the number one podcast for entrepreneurs by entrepreneurs.
[00:44] SPEAKER_04: Hello, I'm your host Mario Tana-Guzzi and on today's Calgary's podcast,
[00:50] SPEAKER_04: our guest is Lisa Shelley, who is CEO of Niels Yard Remedies.
[00:55] SPEAKER_04: Thanks for joining us today, Lisa.
[00:57] SPEAKER_03: Thanks, Mario. Thanks for having me on.
[01:00] SPEAKER_04: Well, let me just start by asking you, first of all,
[01:03] SPEAKER_04: explain what Niels Yard Remedies is and what you guys do.
[01:07] SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean, it's a little bit of a mouthful
[01:10] SPEAKER_03: and then I've heard all the different pronunciations over the years.
[01:13] SPEAKER_03: Niels Yard Remedies is organic skin care.
[01:16] SPEAKER_03: So we started in the UK back in 1981 in a forgotten quarter of common garden.
[01:22] SPEAKER_03: And that quarter is called Niels Yard.
[01:24] SPEAKER_03: So a lot of people ask what that's all about.
[01:27] SPEAKER_03: It's not garden remedies, it's not lawn care.
[01:29] SPEAKER_03: And the question of who is Niels, that takes way back before we do.
[01:33] SPEAKER_02: Okay.
[01:34] SPEAKER_03: In that quarter of Niels Yard, you'll also find a Niels Yard dairy.
[01:38] SPEAKER_03: So think of it as like the name of any square in any city.
[01:43] SPEAKER_03: So from there, we make organic skin care essential oils,
[01:47] SPEAKER_03: health and beauty, mom and baby, all certified organic, clinically proven,
[01:51] SPEAKER_03: a really nice option for anybody looking for.
[01:55] SPEAKER_03: A good quality skincare that actually works is good for you and good for planets.
[02:01] SPEAKER_04: Okay.
[02:01] SPEAKER_04: Tell me a little bit like from the perspective here in Caligary,
[02:06] SPEAKER_04: you know, the impact that COVID has had on your business
[02:10] SPEAKER_04: and what you've had to do because of COVID.
[02:14] SPEAKER_03: COVID.
[02:15] SPEAKER_03: I'm going forward to the day when COVID is memory.
[02:18] SPEAKER_03: I think COVID was pretty disruptive for us.
[02:20] SPEAKER_03: You know, I think any business owner needs to pivot during these times.
[02:26] SPEAKER_03: But we have an office here in Caligary.
[02:29] SPEAKER_03: We also have retail shops and we sell online and we sell buy-and-hold sale
[02:34] SPEAKER_03: to other partners such as Whole Foods or shopperers or other.
[02:37] SPEAKER_03: When COVID first happened, we're lucky that we were working a fairly large office
[02:41] SPEAKER_03: with a small team, so we were able to continue operations that we gave
[02:45] SPEAKER_03: our staff the flexibility to work from home.
[02:48] SPEAKER_03: I think fear is a really personal thing and so what we're trying to do is allow
[02:52] SPEAKER_03: everybody to navigate that individually, but it's important to still work as a team.
[02:56] SPEAKER_03: So, you know, I think we needed to make sure that everyone felt supported, felt safe,
[03:01] SPEAKER_03: but that the business could continue because ultimately one of the fears
[03:04] SPEAKER_03: that come up is financial.
[03:05] SPEAKER_03: So we want to keep our people employed.
[03:07] SPEAKER_03: We also have the customer to consider and we wanted to keep them safe
[03:10] SPEAKER_03: and we do happily sell a lot of hands-hated, heavy-dates,
[03:14] SPEAKER_03: but a lot of soap solutions.
[03:16] SPEAKER_03: That sorts of things.
[03:18] SPEAKER_03: So it was important that we could continue our business and keep our distribution tackles open
[03:23] SPEAKER_03: and to do that we needed to make sure it's performing efficiently and effectively.
[03:27] SPEAKER_03: So, you know, I think some of the things that we did were a lot of the options
[03:31] SPEAKER_03: to work from home, obviously, but also keep the office open more possible
[03:34] SPEAKER_03: because we just distribute through our warehouse, which is based in our office.
[03:39] SPEAKER_03: So we had really things like take turns coming into the office
[03:41] SPEAKER_03: and show we had backup plans in case someone wants to get sick.
[03:46] SPEAKER_03: But also really, I think, making sure that we were connected
[03:49] SPEAKER_03: and so having those virtual Zoom meetings like you and I are talking to you today,
[03:54] SPEAKER_03: very part of it.
[03:56] SPEAKER_03: And then, you know, making sure that there was a little disruption in the business
[04:00] SPEAKER_03: as possible because they think a sense of the normalcy during a stressful time
[04:05] SPEAKER_03: is really important.
[04:06] SPEAKER_03: And so if you're the customer, we wanted to make sure that you continued to get your product
[04:10] SPEAKER_03: the same way you would have.
[04:11] SPEAKER_03: And if you're a staff that you have the supports that you needed
[04:15] SPEAKER_03: and would reach and have a gave that.
[04:17] SPEAKER_03: I think on the outset of it, we've been really lucky our team has decided to come
[04:22] SPEAKER_03: and work mostly from the office.
[04:23] SPEAKER_03: I think that indicates a really happy work environment
[04:27] SPEAKER_03: and we're able to see grant that so that everyone can feel safe in our office.
[04:33] SPEAKER_03: On the daily.
[04:35] SPEAKER_04: Okay.
[04:35] SPEAKER_04: Let's talk a little bit about the consumer in this field.
[04:40] SPEAKER_04: You know, what is it about today's consumer that is gravitating towards
[04:45] SPEAKER_04: pulled on quote organic things,
[04:50] SPEAKER_04: whether it's health and beauty or whether it's food or drink.
[04:55] SPEAKER_04: Why do you think more and more consumers are find the appeal in organic products?
[05:03] SPEAKER_03: You know, I think years ago when this concept of like natural or organic started,
[05:09] SPEAKER_03: the industry was fighting against, first started this natural industry,
[05:13] SPEAKER_03: was fighting against a more mainstream industry that was going more and more towards chemicals.
[05:18] SPEAKER_03: And since then, it chemicals and products that we just don't know
[05:21] SPEAKER_03: will kind of impact the health on our body and the planet.
[05:25] SPEAKER_03: And every user's more chemicals released into the world.
[05:28] SPEAKER_03: We don't necessarily know the impact of those in the long run,
[05:31] SPEAKER_03: but we also don't know how they interact together.
[05:33] SPEAKER_03: And so years ago, that's what the industry started fighting against.
[05:37] SPEAKER_03: These days, I think in many ways that goal has been achieved,
[05:40] SPEAKER_03: this concept of organic is concept of natural,
[05:43] SPEAKER_03: it's becoming mainstream.
[05:44] SPEAKER_03: You'll see the certified products in the co-ops, in Calgary, for example,
[05:50] SPEAKER_03: are in any mainstream.
[05:51] SPEAKER_03: And I think that's really wonderful.
[05:54] SPEAKER_03: What's continuing to drive that customer forward, I think,
[05:57] SPEAKER_03: is it's a bit of a value proposition, that lifestyle.
[05:59] SPEAKER_03: You want the confidence both in what the product is that you're putting on your skin.
[06:04] SPEAKER_03: But also, it has worked.
[06:07] SPEAKER_03: Today's customer isn't willing to accept an organic or natural product
[06:11] SPEAKER_03: if it doesn't give you the results that you want.
[06:14] SPEAKER_03: And I think this is where Neil's Yara Fitts really well,
[06:17] SPEAKER_03: as a leader in the industry.
[06:20] SPEAKER_03: So not only are our products certified organic,
[06:23] SPEAKER_03: and in fact, we were the first beauty brand to be certified organic.
[06:27] SPEAKER_03: We also have the clinical results to prove that they work.
[06:31] SPEAKER_03: So we have several different categories,
[06:34] SPEAKER_03: whether that's your anti-aging skin care.
[06:36] SPEAKER_03: We have mom and baby products, for example,
[06:39] SPEAKER_03: that are clinically proven to reduce scratch marks.
[06:45] SPEAKER_03: We have all of these different categories that work.
[06:48] SPEAKER_03: And the customer's not willing to adopt something if they can't feel good in their skin
[06:52] SPEAKER_03: because they're skinnets are personal.
[06:54] SPEAKER_03: And obviously, we wear it daily.
[06:56] SPEAKER_03: So I think that's what's driving today's customer.
[06:58] SPEAKER_03: It's the desire to feel good about their purchasing decisions.
[07:03] SPEAKER_03: But also to know that it's effective.
[07:05] SPEAKER_04: Well, when you're talking about purchasing decisions, obviously,
[07:09] SPEAKER_04: correct me if I'm wrong, but there's perception out there that whether it's organic
[07:12] SPEAKER_04: or labeled organic or labeled natural,
[07:18] SPEAKER_04: it's a bit of a higher price, right?
[07:20] SPEAKER_04: So people are still willing to spend that, right?
[07:28] SPEAKER_03: I think what the customer is looking for is something that more perks.
[07:33] SPEAKER_03: So in talking specifically about the OCR,
[07:36] SPEAKER_03: price points, no different than many of the other mainstream brands that you find out
[07:39] SPEAKER_03: there are some of the large department stores and some of the whole foods
[07:43] SPEAKER_03: are all the shoppers, the shortboard options out there.
[07:46] SPEAKER_03: So I think that there can be a difference.
[07:49] SPEAKER_03: Certainly, the other thing that you're getting with our brand is the knowledge
[07:53] SPEAKER_03: that people are treated well through that supply chain.
[07:56] SPEAKER_03: So we pay fair prices for our ingredients.
[07:59] SPEAKER_03: We manufacture all of those products on our own and our own eco factory.
[08:04] SPEAKER_03: The certification costs money that also business expenses.
[08:08] SPEAKER_03: So a lot of these inputs are what's going to drive our price.
[08:12] SPEAKER_03: And that price is really fair when you consider all of those things.
[08:15] SPEAKER_03: And it doesn't have to cost more.
[08:19] SPEAKER_03: The other thing they have to look at is the usability of the product.
[08:23] SPEAKER_03: So a little bit goes a long way.
[08:25] SPEAKER_03: So when you're comparing ultimately the sticker price you're looking at
[08:29] SPEAKER_03: how long does that product last or and how often do I need to replace it.
[08:33] SPEAKER_03: And I think that's when you look here.
[08:34] SPEAKER_03: It also does a really good job of being really good value for money.
[08:39] SPEAKER_00: This podcast is sponsored by eBay Canada.
[08:42] SPEAKER_00: eBay Canada is powering Canadian small businesses.
[08:46] SPEAKER_00: Go to eBay.ca forward slash up and running.
[08:49] SPEAKER_00: Chopen your new global e-commerce business.
[08:52] SPEAKER_04: So tell me what it's like being a business owner
[08:55] SPEAKER_04: and an entrepreneur specifically in Calgary these days.
[08:59] SPEAKER_03: That's a good question.
[09:01] SPEAKER_03: I think when I started this business six or seven years ago,
[09:04] SPEAKER_03: I was definitely a nation that had big dreams.
[09:08] SPEAKER_03: And when you started business,
[09:09] SPEAKER_03: how do you think you're going to get to your goal?
[09:11] SPEAKER_03: It's totally different in many cases than how you actually get to that goal.
[09:15] SPEAKER_03: And we've had to pivot.
[09:17] SPEAKER_03: We've had to dig in.
[09:18] SPEAKER_03: We've had to work really hard opening years.
[09:21] SPEAKER_03: And I'm proud to say we are still in business.
[09:23] SPEAKER_03: We are growing.
[09:24] SPEAKER_03: And it's taken a lot of work.
[09:27] SPEAKER_03: But it's been the challenging market.
[09:31] SPEAKER_03: Calgary with energy.
[09:32] SPEAKER_03: We've been very focused on energy over the years.
[09:35] SPEAKER_03: And that's industry.
[09:36] Speaker UNKNOWN: It's been a very challenging year.
[09:40] SPEAKER_03: Our business has impacted.
[09:43] SPEAKER_03: The world of energy.
[09:47] SPEAKER_03: And we need to do it.
[09:49] SPEAKER_03: We need to grow and thrive.
[09:53] SPEAKER_03: And bring energy to city.
[09:55] SPEAKER_03: There are so many small businesses in Calgary.
[09:59] SPEAKER_03: We work with a lot of other businesses to create a community.
[10:02] SPEAKER_03: and to be a light in the city,
[10:06] SPEAKER_03: and a source of whether that's jobs or diversification,
[10:13] SPEAKER_03: operating a skincare business account,
[10:15] SPEAKER_03: or is it exactly common?
[10:17] SPEAKER_04: Yeah, so how long have you been in this role?
[10:21] SPEAKER_03: So I'm a CA, I started with there's Sinyan many years ago,
[10:25] SPEAKER_03: actually lived in London with,
[10:28] SPEAKER_03: when I was working with there,
[10:29] SPEAKER_03: Sinyan had discovered this brand.
[10:30] SPEAKER_03: And so in 2013, I started NeoJer Domities in Canada in 2014,
[10:38] SPEAKER_03: it became my soul.
[10:39] SPEAKER_03: Okay, so in about six years of doing,
[10:42] SPEAKER_03: of owning my own business,
[10:43] SPEAKER_03: and that's not since spiraled into a couple of others,
[10:46] SPEAKER_03: but yeah, it's been 2014,
[10:49] SPEAKER_03: if you recall, the calendar was a pretty big year.
[10:51] SPEAKER_03: We had the reason to be happy,
[10:54] SPEAKER_03: and we really had to roll with our...
[10:57] SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I was,
[10:58] SPEAKER_04: Tauji was rolling in Doe,
[11:00] SPEAKER_04: and for the most part in 2013, 2014,
[11:04] SPEAKER_04: until the fall of 2014,
[11:07] SPEAKER_04: when things started to collapse, right?
[11:10] SPEAKER_04: Wasn't pretty.
[11:12] SPEAKER_03: Our revenues, like I'm in the census,
[11:14] SPEAKER_03: so I love the numbers,
[11:15] SPEAKER_03: but I love creative videos,
[11:16] SPEAKER_03: well, our rates really follow that energy.
[11:21] SPEAKER_04: Yeah, 20, right?
[11:22] SPEAKER_04: Like people don't understand it.
[11:24] SPEAKER_04: I think people in other parts of the country
[11:26] SPEAKER_04: really don't understand how tied in every business
[11:30] SPEAKER_04: is in this community to that oil patch.
[11:33] SPEAKER_04: So as the oil patch blows,
[11:35] SPEAKER_04: so does the money flow to all these other businesses, right?
[11:39] SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you're certainly connected.
[11:41] SPEAKER_03: I think the other thing is though,
[11:42] SPEAKER_03: the calgaryens are diverse,
[11:45] SPEAKER_03: and we're enthusiastic and we're innovative,
[11:46] SPEAKER_03: and there is an energy to the city,
[11:48] SPEAKER_03: and I think we've had to obviously acknowledge
[11:52] SPEAKER_03: that the energy sector is a massive player,
[11:56] SPEAKER_03: financially, to the city,
[11:58] SPEAKER_03: but that we pivoted well,
[12:00] SPEAKER_03: and I think that you started to see,
[12:02] SPEAKER_03: besides theism,
[12:03] SPEAKER_03: and the COVID changes everything,
[12:05] SPEAKER_03: but you're starting to see that resiliency
[12:08] SPEAKER_03: and that innovation come out of calgaryens,
[12:11] SPEAKER_03: and I think I'm really proud of the way the city is moving
[12:15] SPEAKER_03: with the current sort of being dealt.
[12:18] SPEAKER_04: Now, being a business owner,
[12:20] SPEAKER_04: I can't, I'd be remiss not to ask you this question,
[12:25] SPEAKER_04: because it's a question that all business owners
[12:27] SPEAKER_04: and calgary have faced in the last couple of years,
[12:29] SPEAKER_04: and it's the taxes.
[12:33] SPEAKER_04: I know that, well, down in mission,
[12:37] SPEAKER_04: you still have your story in mission there?
[12:40] SPEAKER_03: You know what, Mary, one of the ways we pivoted
[12:42] SPEAKER_03: during COVID was actually shut that story.
[12:45] SPEAKER_03: It was unfortunate in the sense that
[12:48] SPEAKER_03: we put a lot of blood into that shop.
[12:52] SPEAKER_03: On the other hand, one of the ways we were able to pivot
[12:54] SPEAKER_03: and really ensure a lot of our business security
[12:57] SPEAKER_03: was to move everything under the roof of our head office.
[13:01] SPEAKER_03: So we have moved our shop in mission to 12th Avenue,
[13:05] SPEAKER_03: where we also have our team working,
[13:07] SPEAKER_03: and so what that does is actually allows my head off
[13:10] SPEAKER_03: with staff who are sometimes a little too comfortable
[13:12] SPEAKER_03: behind the computer bit.
[13:13] SPEAKER_04: Okay.
[13:14] SPEAKER_04: Well, you know, I was,
[13:16] SPEAKER_04: the reason I brought up the mission is because I was talking
[13:19] SPEAKER_04: to, you know, like I think was right across the street
[13:22] SPEAKER_04: from you, the owner of Worst, you know,
[13:27] SPEAKER_04: restaurant and bar, and he talked about the taxes, right?
[13:30] SPEAKER_04: And how high the taxes have gone.
[13:32] SPEAKER_04: How has that impacted you as a business owner
[13:35] SPEAKER_04: to see those rising taxes, business taxes in this city?
[13:40] SPEAKER_03: I mean, I think anytime taxes go up,
[13:42] SPEAKER_03: it's hard on businesses, particularly the small businesses.
[13:47] SPEAKER_03: Some of that increase was due to the rezoning of some
[13:52] SPEAKER_03: of the properties that would have gone from like tier three
[13:55] SPEAKER_03: to tier one, for example.
[13:57] SPEAKER_03: And also it's about the relationship with the landlord.
[13:59] SPEAKER_03: And I think that the landlord's have an obligation
[14:01] SPEAKER_03: to continue to build the community.
[14:03] SPEAKER_03: And when they get fully passed down to the tenants
[14:06] SPEAKER_03: and sometimes those businesses aren't,
[14:07] SPEAKER_03: or those buildings aren't fully occupied,
[14:10] SPEAKER_03: then the tenants, particularly the ones
[14:11] SPEAKER_03: at the current level, have to bear more weight,
[14:17] SPEAKER_03: and we just can't stain it.
[14:20] SPEAKER_03: So, you know, I think it became even more difficult
[14:23] SPEAKER_03: to continue to operate independently.
[14:26] SPEAKER_04: Okay, so I'm curious.
[14:28] SPEAKER_04: How does the chartered accountant get into this field?
[14:35] SPEAKER_03: Oh, I guess in some of that several times.
[14:37] SPEAKER_03: I was definitely younger in more to nation.
[14:40] SPEAKER_03: I was looking for values based business.
[14:44] SPEAKER_03: I've always had a bit of spunk in me.
[14:46] SPEAKER_03: So the concept of running my own business
[14:47] SPEAKER_03: was really appealing.
[14:49] SPEAKER_03: And I happened to be in love with this brand.
[14:51] SPEAKER_03: So talk about like never knowing who your consumer could be.
[14:55] SPEAKER_03: I was living in London, as I said,
[14:57] SPEAKER_03: started using the illiterate remedies.
[14:59] SPEAKER_03: Was so happy with how I felt in my skin,
[15:02] SPEAKER_03: the results I was seeing, you know,
[15:04] SPEAKER_03: I wasn't like I had terrible skin,
[15:06] SPEAKER_03: but I felt good about what I was buying,
[15:09] SPEAKER_03: what I was applying on my body,
[15:10] SPEAKER_03: and how my skin looked.
[15:12] SPEAKER_03: So when I moved back to Canada,
[15:14] SPEAKER_03: I just felt that this was something
[15:15] SPEAKER_03: that everyone should have access to.
[15:17] SPEAKER_03: And I'm a six generation Bulgarian.
[15:20] SPEAKER_03: I love this city.
[15:22] SPEAKER_03: I think people are really wonderful.
[15:23] SPEAKER_03: I wanted them to have access
[15:25] SPEAKER_03: to some of the best brands out there in the world.
[15:28] SPEAKER_03: And so I called calls, you know, Jared,
[15:30] SPEAKER_03: and I said, hey, when you, like,
[15:31] SPEAKER_03: could I bring this brand to Canada
[15:34] SPEAKER_03: and long story short, we came to this agreement.
[15:37] SPEAKER_03: And here we are.
[15:39] SPEAKER_03: But what it was was a passion for making the world
[15:42] SPEAKER_03: a better place, helping people
[15:44] SPEAKER_03: that's happier, healthier lives.
[15:48] SPEAKER_03: And I think that if you're gonna run your business,
[15:51] SPEAKER_03: it doesn't matter what it is, if you love it.
[15:53] SPEAKER_03: And so I'm lucky to have an accountant background.
[15:56] SPEAKER_03: I think it's critical that you know your numbers
[15:58] SPEAKER_03: when you run a business.
[16:00] SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
[16:00] SPEAKER_03: But I'm also generally quite creative.
[16:02] SPEAKER_03: And so that's really helped us to navigate this,
[16:08] SPEAKER_03: you know, very interesting last six years.
[16:10] SPEAKER_04: So you got both sides of the brain working?
[16:13] SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
[16:13] Speaker UNKNOWN: Right?
[16:14] SPEAKER_04: So, you know, it's quite an important thing, right?
[16:18] SPEAKER_04: Because, you know, most business owners really don't have,
[16:24] SPEAKER_04: you know, especially the smaller entrepreneurs
[16:25] SPEAKER_04: don't have that financial background.
[16:28] SPEAKER_04: And so I think you probably have a very good advantage
[16:32] SPEAKER_04: there, having that background as well, right?
[16:36] SPEAKER_03: Yeah, absolutely.
[16:37] SPEAKER_03: I mean, I think just knowing how to navigate the business,
[16:40] SPEAKER_03: how numbers intersected at every point,
[16:42] SPEAKER_03: finance really underpins all the different areas
[16:45] SPEAKER_03: of the business.
[16:46] SPEAKER_03: And one of the things that I actually started doing is,
[16:49] SPEAKER_03: one of my business was a lot smaller,
[16:51] SPEAKER_03: when the old deer had just first started,
[16:53] SPEAKER_03: my head extra capacity in my team had, you know,
[16:56] SPEAKER_03: so amazing marketing talent.
[16:58] SPEAKER_03: And some really additional finance knowledge.
[17:02] SPEAKER_03: And so I actually started supporting other business owners
[17:05] SPEAKER_03: in their, you know, often in the finance part,
[17:09] SPEAKER_03: their own business.
[17:11] SPEAKER_03: And through that, established such as capital
[17:14] SPEAKER_03: as sort of a small and medium-sized strategic advisory
[17:19] SPEAKER_03: and financial advisory firm.
[17:21] SPEAKER_03: And so I now operate both of these where we really focus
[17:24] SPEAKER_03: on helping those other small businesses to navigate.
[17:27] SPEAKER_03: And understand their numbers because I think,
[17:30] SPEAKER_03: you know, it's critical to our success.
[17:32] SPEAKER_03: And I love to be able to help them ask the question
[17:35] SPEAKER_03: understand that they would not be able to do.
[17:39] SPEAKER_04: Okay, so obviously in all of businesses facing
[17:44] SPEAKER_04: very tough times right now, especially in Calgary, right?
[17:48] SPEAKER_04: But, you know, we talked about the oil patch down turn
[17:50] SPEAKER_04: and obviously the COVID, what's your best piece of advice
[17:54] SPEAKER_04: for entrepreneurs right now?
[17:57] SPEAKER_04: Many who are struggling, some of them are, you know,
[18:00] SPEAKER_04: just at the point of trying to make a decision
[18:02] SPEAKER_04: whether to carry on or just pack up the bags.
[18:06] SPEAKER_03: Oh, that's a very good question.
[18:09] SPEAKER_03: I think my best piece of advice is that it's okay to fail
[18:13] SPEAKER_03: and that to separate yourself worth as an individual
[18:17] SPEAKER_03: from your business is very difficult.
[18:19] SPEAKER_03: And closing a business doesn't mean you're failing
[18:22] SPEAKER_03: or that yourself is at stake.
[18:24] SPEAKER_03: So, you know, I would encourage people to really,
[18:27] SPEAKER_03: you know, to fight if you can, but to acknowledge
[18:30] SPEAKER_03: that, you know, these things happen
[18:33] SPEAKER_03: and that the only certainty we have is today,
[18:35] SPEAKER_03: but there's so much, you know, opportunity out there.
[18:38] SPEAKER_03: And yeah, just to keep fighting if you can,
[18:43] SPEAKER_03: but that it's okay that if this particular one
[18:46] SPEAKER_03: doesn't work out because something that is coming.
[18:50] SPEAKER_04: Okay, super then.
[18:51] SPEAKER_04: Well, thanks for joining us today, Lisa.
[18:53] SPEAKER_04: Well, thanks for having me.
[18:54] SPEAKER_04: Okay, that was Lisa Shelley,
[18:56] SPEAKER_04: who is CEO of Neal's Yard Remedies in Calgary.
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