Jessica Schacht is Co-Founder of Ampersand Distilling Company, One of the Top Craft Distilleries in BC

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[00:00] SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Canada's podcast, the number one podcast for entrepreneurs by
[00:06] SPEAKER_00: entrepreneurs. Hi, this is Angela Faye from Canada's podcast, super excited to
[00:12] SPEAKER_00: welcome Jessica Shatt here from Ampersand Distilling Company here on Vancouver
[00:17] SPEAKER_00: Island. Jessica, tell me a little bit about your entrepreneurial journey. Yes,
[00:22] SPEAKER_01: thank you so much for having me. Yeah, my journey started with Ampersand back in
[00:28] SPEAKER_01: about 2011. My now husband and I moved up Island to the Cowachan Valley with
[00:34] SPEAKER_01: his parent and they had they had a five-acre farm here. We moved up with this
[00:40] SPEAKER_01: sort of idea to start a distillery using the they've been entrepreneurs their
[00:45] SPEAKER_01: whole lives as well. So back in 2011, we moved up here with hope and a dream and
[00:50] SPEAKER_01: spent some time farming in on the land and going to farmer's markets and that
[00:55] SPEAKER_01: sort of thing. And all the while we were looking at the craft distillery industry
[00:59] SPEAKER_01: that was happening, it was quite small back then and we spent three years
[01:05] SPEAKER_01: developing the business plan and Jeremy and Stephen actually spent that time
[01:09] SPEAKER_01: building the equipment that that would become the stills for for our distillery
[01:14] SPEAKER_01: developing the recipe and all of that. So we launched in October of 2014 and by
[01:21] SPEAKER_01: that point it was like yes, we've done it. And then that was really just the
[01:25] SPEAKER_01: beginning. So here we are now, you know, six years later and we've got Ford
[01:32] SPEAKER_01: products in our lineup. We have people you know come from all over the world to
[01:36] SPEAKER_01: visit the distillery usually and and yeah, we've you know one world's best vodka.
[01:43] SPEAKER_00: Wow, okay, so what are the four products you've got a vodka? You've got a
[01:48] SPEAKER_01: gin clearly. Yeah, so Amber San gin is our flagship spirit. That's the one
[01:53] SPEAKER_01: we always knew we wanted to start with a gin first. Mine and Jeremy's favorite
[01:57] SPEAKER_01: spirit. It's in you know the majority of the classic cocktails and and for us
[02:02] SPEAKER_01: we just really wanted that to be the flagship spirit because our distillation
[02:06] SPEAKER_01: process is quite unique having designed and built the stills that we use. We are
[02:12] SPEAKER_01: able to make really clean pure spirit that really showcases the BC wheat that
[02:16] SPEAKER_01: we use as a base. So we make that into our per se vodka. And that's what's
[02:22] SPEAKER_01: actually one world's best vodka the world vodka awards in the before times
[02:26] SPEAKER_01: this year. Where we promptly went and started making all of that vodka into
[02:32] SPEAKER_00: hand sanitizer when the pandemic hit. And I'm gonna segue into that for a
[02:36] SPEAKER_00: second, but I just I you said something that I didn't catch before you have
[02:40] SPEAKER_00: designed. Did you say in oven? The still yeah. Still okay what what does that
[02:46] SPEAKER_00: mean? You have a unique design specifically. We do yeah so Jeremy and
[02:51] SPEAKER_01: Stephen both have engineering backgrounds and Jimmy. We studied chemical
[02:55] SPEAKER_01: engineering and chemical process. The distillation is a key part of that.
[02:59] SPEAKER_01: Typically you would apply that to petroleum products, but we think this is a
[03:03] SPEAKER_01: much more fun. I'm totally great. So yeah most people you typically see
[03:10] SPEAKER_01: what's called a plate still for making your own spirit. And that's where each
[03:15] SPEAKER_01: plate you can sort of think of it like a pot still where the alcohol you heat
[03:19] SPEAKER_01: it. It boils the liquid in the vapor have an opportunity to interact as they
[03:24] SPEAKER_01: bubble up and on to each plate. So there's a single opportunity for those
[03:29] SPEAKER_01: interaction. What we have is a packed column. So it's completely packed. There's
[03:33] SPEAKER_01: these little coils in it. So there's lots of surface area. So as the liquid
[03:37] SPEAKER_01: turns into a vapor and rises up we send it back down as a liquid. So there's
[03:41] SPEAKER_01: almost constant interaction many more opportunities for that interaction
[03:45] SPEAKER_01: which allows us to extract our alcohol about 96.5% right up there at what's
[03:52] SPEAKER_01: called the azia trope as as high as you can get. And that's what we collect. We
[03:57] SPEAKER_01: are able to fraction off the impurities. Those heads and tails you hear about
[04:01] SPEAKER_01: the have the you know acetone, the fusel oils, all those bad things that don't
[04:05] SPEAKER_01: taste very good. Very good for you. So we extract just the pure ethanol and
[04:10] SPEAKER_01: we dilute that with our own spring water to make our vodka and really the
[04:13] SPEAKER_00: base for all of our spirits. So what sounds completely compelling to me here in
[04:18] SPEAKER_00: this part of the stories you know as a gin consumer myself. So I completely
[04:22] SPEAKER_00: relate to it being a favorite spirit. You know as a consumer we we easily pull
[04:28] SPEAKER_00: something off the shelf and you know consume it with our friends or our family
[04:33] SPEAKER_00: or or for our and our what we don't understand is the three years that it took to
[04:40] SPEAKER_00: build the distillery and invest in the infrastructure probably hundreds of
[04:45] SPEAKER_00: thousand dollars in infrastructure. The science behind the development of the
[04:51] SPEAKER_00: product clearly that is not something that you know an average do average
[04:55] SPEAKER_00: be able to do off the street plus the creative and the design of your brand. I
[05:03] SPEAKER_00: know what what sometimes we take for granted as a as a single bottle of of gin.
[05:09] SPEAKER_01: Yeah yeah I mean and we were you know both lucky and resourceful I guess you
[05:14] SPEAKER_01: know you make your own luck in a sense in that you know our distillery is on the
[05:17] SPEAKER_01: property that remunence even already had so it's an an old workshop that is
[05:22] SPEAKER_01: where where we have it and designing and building our own equipment it
[05:25] SPEAKER_01: definitely saved us a lot of money. Right. So buying a still so you know we have
[05:30] SPEAKER_01: that do it yourself approach that we've always always had and and you know
[05:34] SPEAKER_01: thankfully the background that that we all sort of bring I think and and have
[05:39] SPEAKER_01: being a family business you know there's obviously challenges sometimes and
[05:44] SPEAKER_01: working with family but the the experiences that we have all brought remunence
[05:48] SPEAKER_01: even having run their own business you know all of their lives. It was a really
[05:52] SPEAKER_01: great foundation to start pulling all those elements together. Well I'm just
[05:57] SPEAKER_00: going to highlight you said Cowwich and Valley. Can you just describe because
[06:00] SPEAKER_00: Cowwich and Valley I understand it here it's on Vancouver Island in British
[06:04] SPEAKER_00: Columbia, beautiful British Columbia. It's renowned for agriculture and
[06:09] SPEAKER_01: consumable products is that your experience. Yeah it's a new wine region as well
[06:14] SPEAKER_01: this year that was you know people around here have known that for a long time
[06:17] SPEAKER_01: but the rest of the world gets in on the secret now. Yeah no we're in North
[06:26] SPEAKER_01: Southside of Duncan proper which is between Victoria and the NIMO but yeah
[06:30] SPEAKER_01: and you know it's a beautiful place that you're you know looking out there's
[06:33] SPEAKER_01: you've got gorgeous trees we are in a little valley like there's little you
[06:39] SPEAKER_01: know microcosms of the valley itself all throughout the the area and yeah lots
[06:45] SPEAKER_01: of beautiful vineyards we grow great produce. Cowwich and cow it's and it means
[06:50] SPEAKER_01: warm land so it's it has its own climate here really. And that kind of makes
[06:58] SPEAKER_00: it distinct right would you would you agree or could you comment on how the
[07:03] SPEAKER_00: geography and the climate relates to your product and your ability to you know
[07:09] SPEAKER_01: produce something unique. Yeah yeah well I mean you know one of the things you
[07:13] SPEAKER_01: hear a lot in spirit is about like the water really is it and so we have an
[07:19] SPEAKER_01: so that the that special you know clean pure spring water goes in that's what
[07:26] SPEAKER_01: we use for for diluting all of our spirits but it's also yeah the growing
[07:29] SPEAKER_01: for one of our other products is Nuccino so we make a green walnut look here and
[07:36] SPEAKER_01: you make that by harvesting walnuts while they're still greens before they've
[07:40] SPEAKER_01: ripened and then you've got these aromatic husks that we steepen the spirit and
[07:44] SPEAKER_01: so that changes year to year you know depending on when the walnuts ripen like
[07:49] SPEAKER_01: we so all of that goes in into the spirit itself and same with them imperative
[07:54] SPEAKER_01: driver moose is another product of ours we grow the warm wood for that on our farm
[07:58] SPEAKER_01: and so yeah that that sort of tarwar those growing conditions are baked into
[08:03] SPEAKER_00: every bottle. Something that we talked about before is also British
[08:07] SPEAKER_00: Columbia specifically as a as being business friendly for the distilling sector.
[08:15] SPEAKER_00: Can you give me a little insight on what's happening in British Columbia?
[08:20] SPEAKER_01: Yeah so in the time that we were thinking about and starting you know to build the
[08:24] SPEAKER_01: the distillery thankfully there were people doing it before us and they really paved the way
[08:28] SPEAKER_01: and what what the government ended up doing was creating a new agreement called the
[08:33] SPEAKER_01: craft distillery agreement and what that is is an agreement that allows if you meet certain
[08:39] SPEAKER_01: requirements then then you can have this agreement so if you make your own alcohol from scratch
[08:44] SPEAKER_01: using BC raw agricultural goods you have the right to direct distribute and so what that does is
[08:49] SPEAKER_01: allow you to bypass the markup of the government stores and we sell directly to bars and restaurants
[08:56] SPEAKER_01: we sell to private liquor stores and to people at farmers markets and things like that.
[09:01] SPEAKER_00: And so sell online as well?
[09:03] SPEAKER_01: Yes yeah we have an online store now yep.
[09:06] SPEAKER_00: And of course you're tasting room in normal circumstances?
[09:10] SPEAKER_01: Yes yes we have a tasting room here at the distillery.
[09:14] SPEAKER_00: So I just want to just give a little cuteos and maybe you and I can high five on this that
[09:18] SPEAKER_00: would you agree that it was kind of a movement of farmers and entrepreneurs that
[09:24] SPEAKER_00: partnered with the government to make this a business friendly environment specifically for
[09:30] SPEAKER_00: distillers would you would you high five that?
[09:32] SPEAKER_01: I would I think that it's really you know it was great that the government saw the possibility
[09:38] SPEAKER_01: for the creation of jobs and supporting agriculture like all the way up by using those BC raw agricultural
[09:43] SPEAKER_01: goods so we're using wheat in our at the base and and so that's all grown in BC that's supporting
[09:49] SPEAKER_01: BC farmers other distilleries are using honey they're using fruit and those are all BC raw agricultural
[09:56] SPEAKER_01: goods so they're you know supporting our local economy here.
[09:59] SPEAKER_00: Well and I also I mean Nijin it doesn't get any better than being a perfect value added
[10:04] SPEAKER_00: manufacturing product here. They say if you ask me personally.
[10:09] SPEAKER_00: Tell me a little bit about let's just we're talking about sort of the regulatory environment.
[10:14] SPEAKER_00: We also talked a little bit about what's happening at a federal level to help Canadian distilleries
[10:19] SPEAKER_00: stay competitive. What can you share?
[10:22] SPEAKER_01: Yeah so basically it was across Canada there's a cross-Canada effort
[10:26] SPEAKER_01: on new guilds and distilleries across the country have come together to really ask the federal
[10:31] SPEAKER_01: government to support us specifically in this in their COVID economic really friends in helping
[10:38] SPEAKER_01: us achieve excise parity with the United States and so what that would do is really help
[10:45] SPEAKER_01: smaller businesses be able to kickstart their growth and make decisions and really reinvigorate
[10:51] SPEAKER_01: the economy without having to pay the same tax rate as you know large companies who are making you
[10:58] SPEAKER_01: hundreds of thousands of leaders of alcohol and are taxed at a higher rate.
[11:04] SPEAKER_00: Yeah and so what does that mean on the trickle down effect for you as a small business operator?
[11:09] SPEAKER_01: Yeah so you know we currently pay about twelve dollars per leader of absolute alcohol whereas in
[11:15] SPEAKER_01: the states you know it's around a dollar a dollar seventy seven I think and and so that's a huge
[11:21] SPEAKER_01: difference. What that would mean is just being able to reinvest that money if we were to see this
[11:27] SPEAKER_01: tax break we would be able to reinvest that money in our business in our local economies supporting
[11:33] SPEAKER_01: like the creation of jobs and just yet really being able to reinvigorate the economy and specifically
[11:39] SPEAKER_00: in the moment that we're in. And what would the challengers say to or would there is there any
[11:47] SPEAKER_01: argument for challenging that tax? I mean there is the talk of the you know potential loss of revenue
[11:53] SPEAKER_01: by lowering that that tax and so the the salt to that is by doing it on like a per liter business.
[12:01] SPEAKER_01: So you're not taxing everybody the same and so the producers who are making smaller amounts
[12:05] SPEAKER_01: pay less of the tax and then as they grow then they continue they contribute more to that to that
[12:11] SPEAKER_01: revenue. So that's why this this solve works. So yeah this is before the federal government now
[12:17] SPEAKER_00: we're waiting their response. And a little update that we had from the guild as you've got 5,000
[12:23] SPEAKER_00: petition signed right? What sort of timeframe are you looking at? There was a big push to you
[12:29] SPEAKER_01: know bring awareness in the ways that crafty stillers are supporting you know Canadian agriculture
[12:34] SPEAKER_01: and jobs across the country and so yes we gathered a support of 5,000 people on our change.org
[12:39] SPEAKER_01: petition and that request for excise parity for small volume just dollars before the federal
[12:46] SPEAKER_01: government now and we're waiting to hear their response. So we're really hoping they're not going
[12:50] SPEAKER_01: to leave us out of this COVID economic relief plan. Is there any other roadblocks that you
[12:55] SPEAKER_00: anticipate that maybe we can help gain some momentum and and help your cause? I think you know if you
[13:01] SPEAKER_01: if you want to go to the change.org petition it's in a lot of the crafty stillers they're like links
[13:08] SPEAKER_01: and bio and their Instagram pages and stuff and yeah that's really a great support. Support
[13:15] SPEAKER_00: Canadian support local support distilleries by signing a petition would be just one extra little
[13:23] SPEAKER_00: piece in tax reform and helping small business succeed here in Canada excellent. I want to go back
[13:29] SPEAKER_00: a little bit to your story about COVID pivot. So tell me what you had to do in 2020 that was you know
[13:39] SPEAKER_01: obviously unexpected. Yeah yeah I'm very unexpected you know we had very different plans or how
[13:45] SPEAKER_01: this year was was gonna play out but you know obviously everybody did and and there was no
[13:51] SPEAKER_01: predicting and here we are. So what happened was that right away in March when the lockdowns
[13:57] SPEAKER_01: happened we were able to change our production and we shifted basically all of our production to
[14:03] SPEAKER_01: the to making hand sanitizer. We were we knew that it was something that we would be able to do
[14:08] SPEAKER_01: and some a way that we would be able to contribute and so we also were able to separate out our
[14:13] SPEAKER_01: production for. We're a very small family owned business and you know there's two people that
[14:19] SPEAKER_01: work two to three people that work in the distillery on a regular basis so we Alex who runs production
[14:26] SPEAKER_01: he was in the distillery by himself basically Jeremy and I did all of our work from home and
[14:32] SPEAKER_01: same with Ramona and Steven so we really separated it out that way during the quarantine
[14:37] SPEAKER_01: and working just to liais with you know nurses doctors midwives local charities and all
[14:44] SPEAKER_01: all sorts of groups that we're like you need hand sanitizer here's how we're gonna get it to you so
[14:48] SPEAKER_01: we shifted production shut everything down in terms of contact and and really tried to help out
[14:55] SPEAKER_00: as much as we could. And what is what's next post hand sanitizer do envision getting back to
[15:06] SPEAKER_01: yeah so we are doing what happened was when when the the government again they did acknowledge that
[15:12] SPEAKER_01: creptoals would be able to do this they granted us a I don't know what you will call it an exemption
[15:17] SPEAKER_01: I guess so we were able to purchase neutral grain spirit so we were able to shift our production
[15:21] SPEAKER_01: back to Martin vodka and Jain and all those things while still being able to manufacture hand sanitizer
[15:27] SPEAKER_01: so we have that we're able to do that and then the things like you know we had planned on opening
[15:33] SPEAKER_01: an online store this year but it happened a lot sooner faster than we anticipated we had you know
[15:39] SPEAKER_01: big plans for our tasting room this summer which we were able to open briefly for a short
[15:45] SPEAKER_01: bit of the summer season and then we've closed down again for for the fall and winter and and we
[15:52] SPEAKER_01: did have a couple of products that got pushed off the back burner which will hopefully be back so
[15:57] SPEAKER_01: we're working on sweet remotes that we really want to have out soon and also hopefully that'll be
[16:02] SPEAKER_00: near on the horizon in 2021 tell me a little bit about the sort of ecosystem of farmers and
[16:11] SPEAKER_00: restaurants and things in the cowwich and valley that one thing I love about your story is how much
[16:16] SPEAKER_00: you've partnered together and collaborated on unique recipes and the fact that they serve your
[16:22] SPEAKER_00: product in in local restaurants can you tell me a little bit about that yeah yeah it's been really
[16:27] SPEAKER_01: amazing to see the relationships in the community develop around this you know food and beverage
[16:31] SPEAKER_01: hospitality industry and because we have a farm we were you know already selling produce to a lot
[16:39] SPEAKER_01: of local chefs and and the delivery came on we were able to you know continue those relationships and
[16:46] SPEAKER_01: and serve or sell our our spirits to them as well and I think it's it's really awesome because we
[16:53] SPEAKER_01: are able to do that direct distribution it takes out or you know it just really connects us
[16:59] SPEAKER_01: that much closer so it's you know me they call when they are ordering spirits and and up sometimes
[17:05] SPEAKER_01: it's me that drives up and delivers it and you know restaurants that are specifically you know
[17:13] SPEAKER_01: maybe more locally focused on the menu they're looking for things that that really highlight this
[17:18] SPEAKER_01: region as well and what's coming out of it so you know there there've been just yeah so many great
[17:24] SPEAKER_01: craft cocktails and then yeah getting to work with local wineries like our imperative driver
[17:30] SPEAKER_01: moose we making collaboration with wrath gent sellers out on the sandwich peninsula it's just
[17:35] SPEAKER_01: yeah an amazing way to connect with different food producers and build this community and then
[17:41] SPEAKER_01: yeah to be able to sell at farmers markets and interact with people who are our local community but
[17:45] SPEAKER_00: yeah if you could wave a magic wand Jessica and enroll you know your local community your
[17:53] SPEAKER_00: your your already favorite clients and want to be clients into what you need to get through to 2021
[18:03] SPEAKER_01: what would you love to see yeah I think the community has really stepped up you know we still see
[18:08] SPEAKER_01: people coming to the farmers market we see people are shopping in our online store but I think
[18:13] SPEAKER_01: we and all all of us craft oscillars especially restaurants that this has been such a hard year
[18:19] SPEAKER_01: for restaurants we just need that community support more than ever so you know whether you're
[18:24] SPEAKER_01: looking at your holiday gifting options you know what can you buy them gift cards for your local
[18:30] SPEAKER_01: restaurants for your local distilleries and and just really looking at those around us like you know
[18:37] SPEAKER_01: we may be an isolation but we have such an incredible um place around us here so I'm really
[18:44] SPEAKER_01: void by the support that we've seen and and hopefully we'll continue to see and and that people
[18:49] SPEAKER_01: yeah we'll just think local when when it comes to uh talking the cupboards and uh and all the
[18:55] SPEAKER_00: yeah gifting etc absolutely we're talking yeah and I touched on a herd sweet for moose was on
[19:02] SPEAKER_01: 2020 agenda yeah yeah it was yeah is it still on the agenda it's been we've been we've been
[19:09] SPEAKER_01: tinkering a bit um I'm also I've been on like sort of I mean as much of a maternity leave as
[19:15] SPEAKER_01: you're ever on when you're an entrepreneur but so Jeremy and I we we welcomed us then into the world
[19:21] SPEAKER_01: at the end of 2019 congratulations next generation yeah yeah really exciting but yeah so that
[19:28] SPEAKER_01: that has sort of pushed back all of their my recipe uh development plans they've got
[19:34] SPEAKER_01: a bunch of better herbs and things like that not super uh easy to do so and let us know how can
[19:41] SPEAKER_00: it as podcasts can support you I'm I just had this thought process in my mind that when you decide
[19:46] SPEAKER_00: that you're going to launch speaker mute we should have another little quick session and and try
[19:51] SPEAKER_01: and get some pre-sales I love the idea yes we can like send a bottle to you exactly a cool cocktail
[19:56] SPEAKER_00: hour to for fun we usually try and have a fun talking point with with our entrepreneurs on what
[20:05] SPEAKER_00: makes them tick but there's something that I would love to bring up because there's another famous
[20:10] SPEAKER_00: Canadian that is in the in the in the gin manufacturing world and that is Ryan Reynolds right who's
[20:16] SPEAKER_00: also a fellow BC a resident here it lives in Vancouver and um but I think his brand is do you know
[20:24] SPEAKER_01: anything about his I do actually yes okay okay so um yeah no we go way back to aviation
[20:34] SPEAKER_01: gin so when Jeremy and I were um first uh what like we you know we went on some business trips as you do
[20:39] SPEAKER_01: to do yeah you do in Portland is you know craft is selling craft beer they were on uh they're always
[20:47] SPEAKER_01: ahead of all the curves so we went down to Portland and um how spirits is the brand that that
[20:52] SPEAKER_01: originally produced aviation gin so we had a tour and we stayed and we you know stayed in touch
[20:57] SPEAKER_01: with them and it's been amazing to watch watch them grow got some great advice from them but while
[21:02] SPEAKER_01: we were starting up and but I must say yeah I was uh I was a little saddened that uh
[21:07] SPEAKER_01: Ryan Reynolds found like like what he calls the best gin and it wasn't Canadian right so let's
[21:12] SPEAKER_00: challenge him at the moment you've got the world's best gin so world best vodka a world's best
[21:18] SPEAKER_00: vodka sir you've got the world's best vodka maybe we have a comp a friendly competition between
[21:23] SPEAKER_00: Canadians on uh you know yeah I don't I don't know what yet the game is but I think we need to
[21:31] SPEAKER_00: challenge challenge Ryan ampersand and aviation can come up with you know maybe the who's gonna
[21:36] SPEAKER_00: get the the world's sweetest vermut there's something like that.
[21:42] SPEAKER_00: Gidesica has been an absolute pleasure is there anything else that you would like to share with
[21:46] SPEAKER_00: listeners from a entrepreneurial background or in the distilling industry as far as the landscape
[21:54] SPEAKER_01: here in Canada. I think that I've really been grateful that in my experience uh has largely been
[22:02] SPEAKER_01: fueled by a lot of audacity and a lot of determination and I think that that is part of it's
[22:08] SPEAKER_01: certainly something that I'm returning to in these times where it's really difficult of like just
[22:14] SPEAKER_01: you know a lot of it's a challenge right now so continuing to hang on to that audaciousness
[22:20] SPEAKER_01: and determination of like just like yes of course of course you can open this to a distillery of course
[22:25] SPEAKER_01: you can you know do those things and and um just continuing to support those bold ideas that's
[22:33] SPEAKER_01: yeah hopefully what we'll we'll get us through and help us see you know innovations and great
[22:37] SPEAKER_00: community on the other side of this. And uh and I'm just gonna plant a seed that to obviously
[22:43] SPEAKER_00: Canada and in particular BC is probably one of the best places to open a distillery and Jessica's
[22:49] SPEAKER_00: an awesome example of and her family on what can be done Jessica how can people get a hold of
[22:54] SPEAKER_01: you post podcast. Yeah so you can check us out at ampersanddistilling.com for our website and
[23:01] SPEAKER_01: online store and all that goodness and you can follow along at amp distilling co on IG and it's
[23:07] SPEAKER_00: Facebook as well. Awesome Jessica thanks for your time. Love your story. Look forward to
[23:13] SPEAKER_00: sharing it more and doing some more work with you in the future. Awesome thank you so much. Thank
[23:16] SPEAKER_01: you for having me.