Building a sustainable, competitive, and resilient world with technology

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[00:00] SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Countless Podcast.
[00:05] SPEAKER_01: Hey ladies and gentlemen my name is Rivers Corbett.
[00:08] SPEAKER_01: I'm the Atlantic Canada host for Canada's podcast where we hang out with entrepreneurs from
[00:13] SPEAKER_01: coast to coast but this coast is all about hanging out with Atlantic Canadian entrepreneurs.
[00:20] SPEAKER_01: And today's guest is a great friend of mine.
[00:23] SPEAKER_01: She's been hanging out in the entrepreneur space in New Brunswick where I was hanging
[00:28] SPEAKER_01: out a lot in the past and I've been really admiring her journey.
[00:33] SPEAKER_01: And you know as I was trying to explain Janelle Sobby I went on her LinkedIn profile and
[00:41] SPEAKER_01: this really describes her to a tee because even though her sweat is very techy she's also
[00:48] SPEAKER_01: got this quirky personality to her.
[00:51] SPEAKER_01: So this is what she wrote the other day when she was posting for a job interview.
[00:56] SPEAKER_01: She says, do you know someone in elementary school to pleasure in organizing their desk
[01:02] SPEAKER_01: and always had the most gold star stickers on their short shirt?
[01:07] SPEAKER_01: That's Janelle Sobby right there, a fun personality and we're really pleased to have you
[01:14] SPEAKER_01: on the show today.
[01:15] SPEAKER_01: So welcome Janelle.
[01:17] SPEAKER_00: Thanks Rivers.
[01:19] SPEAKER_00: That is a really kind and different introduction.
[01:24] SPEAKER_01: Well you know me I like to do things a little bit different.
[01:27] SPEAKER_01: They all say, well everybody else is kind of the else so.
[01:31] SPEAKER_01: So yes so Janelle's background is pretty now she's the chief executive director of an
[01:37] SPEAKER_01: organization called Riddle and we're going to get into a bit of that and she's also the
[01:41] SPEAKER_01: partner and former managing partner of co plus mortar and it's get all kinds of language
[01:49] SPEAKER_01: wrapped around this that I haven't got a freaking clue what it is that she does but I know
[01:54] SPEAKER_01: that she really enjoys what it is that she does.
[01:56] SPEAKER_01: That's why I'm really keen on this conversation because I'm excited to catch up so.
[02:01] SPEAKER_01: So yeah Janelle let's kind of take our guests or our listeners on that journey of because
[02:09] SPEAKER_01: when you were hanging out with me originally you were working for the Pandas Monday organization
[02:16] SPEAKER_01: at the University of Brunswick kind of diving in serving entrepreneurs and so on.
[02:20] SPEAKER_01: At what point did you say now I want to do this on my own I want to grab this and forge
[02:26] SPEAKER_01: my own destiny after doing such an amazing job serving entrepreneurs.
[02:32] SPEAKER_00: Yeah I mean it's funny at that time during that period I was actually an independent like
[02:40] SPEAKER_00: an end up a sole proprietor so I was kind of consultant.
[02:44] SPEAKER_00: And so I continued to hold several contracts at that time so even with the PDC or the
[02:50] SPEAKER_00: business council at the time there was quite a handful and I did that for five years.
[02:55] SPEAKER_00: So I kind of operated that like my first business it was my job at a school and I made lots
[03:04] SPEAKER_00: mistakes during that everything from you know accounting errors to you know not not doing my
[03:13] SPEAKER_00: contracts up properly like one time I think I went like six months without getting paid because
[03:17] SPEAKER_00: I didn't do up my contracts properly where I got paid an installments and so yeah I would
[03:23] SPEAKER_00: definitely consider that my first you know entrepreneurial experience even though it was
[03:28] SPEAKER_00: right.
[03:28] SPEAKER_00: You know taking different contracts and jobs and whatnot.
[03:31] SPEAKER_00: I love it.
[03:32] SPEAKER_01: Yeah so you were a consultant or consultant at that point had a consultant advisory freelance
[03:37] SPEAKER_01: organization that was Janelle Sovi Inc at the time.
[03:41] SPEAKER_00: I love it.
[03:43] SPEAKER_01: I love did you get paid by the way?
[03:45] SPEAKER_00: Yeah eventually.
[03:47] SPEAKER_01: Eventually you got paid.
[03:48] SPEAKER_01: Yeah it's a funny thing you know when entrepreneurs particularly in the beginning they look at that
[03:53] SPEAKER_01: in accounts receivable section oh my god look at that I'm doing so well.
[03:57] SPEAKER_01: So yeah you're doing so look at the monies and someone else's bank account.
[04:01] SPEAKER_01: So tell us about okay so that that's sweet because you kind of moved into a career which
[04:10] SPEAKER_01: took you to Halifax outside of Frederikton and it wasn't at that point in time that you started
[04:18] SPEAKER_01: code plus mortar.
[04:19] SPEAKER_00: Yeah so what had happened was I was fortunate enough to have been able to you know while I was
[04:28] SPEAKER_00: still running the independent consultancy I don't be able to go to university so at the
[04:34] SPEAKER_00: University of Waterloo I was flying back and forth during a grant program and it was in
[04:39] SPEAKER_00: that program that I had a prof say to me you know you can you can solve social and environmental
[04:46] SPEAKER_00: problems but you can scale the impact and the reach of those solutions if you employ technology
[04:53] SPEAKER_00: and of course I'd already been working with you know technical founders and startups and so
[04:59] SPEAKER_00: that was an aha moment for me where I realized this is how I connect my policy background my desire
[05:06] SPEAKER_00: to make positive impact in community change with technology and apply a business model which I
[05:11] SPEAKER_00: also firmly believe that private sector has a significant role to play in how we solve for you
[05:17] SPEAKER_00: know everything from climate change to affordable housing.
[05:21] SPEAKER_00: Right and so the opportunity to buy into an existing company came along which was
[05:27] SPEAKER_00: good for X at the time it's a custom software and development shop so you know build you know
[05:35] SPEAKER_00: clients would come to build products like you know apps or software or websites and we would do
[05:42] SPEAKER_00: those so ran that for five years as the managing partner after buying in and then it was
[05:48] SPEAKER_00: bolded that in February of 2020 so last year and then we're still operating it in some capacity
[05:57] SPEAKER_01: for the next year. Love it yeah it's part of that exit that's part of the agreement was you
[06:03] SPEAKER_00: stayed for a period of time afterwards? Yeah yeah it certainly helped to transition and
[06:09] SPEAKER_01: it's a significant amount of time yeah. So how do you mean that whole concept around scaling?
[06:17] SPEAKER_01: Can you talk a bit about that that social impact piece and so on and how that technology ultimately
[06:25] SPEAKER_01: helped you to scale me talk about apps and and software and so on but can you give us an actual
[06:30] SPEAKER_01: example of how scaling worked in that particular environment? Yeah so it's interesting like there
[06:39] SPEAKER_00: you would end up with lots of different customer projects and they had very specific needs around
[06:46] SPEAKER_00: you know very yeah like I can't think of anything very specific unfortunately I apologize but if
[06:53] SPEAKER_00: we fast forward to my current company so riddle which I started about two years ago now
[07:03] SPEAKER_00: and product software company so different from the other and that it services but the way that
[07:09] SPEAKER_00: we're scaling impact is by working with organizations to help them improve their data collection
[07:16] SPEAKER_00: and reporting so better understanding you know what is the outcomes that they're trying to achieve
[07:22] SPEAKER_00: and are they being successful through their investments their initiatives their activities their
[07:28] SPEAKER_00: programs and actually moving the dial on solving these problems and that was one of the reasons
[07:34] SPEAKER_00: that I started the company was there just isn't enough data to tell us you know if you invest in
[07:40] SPEAKER_00: a to deliver a certain social outcomes a literacy or increasing literacy rates in the province
[07:46] SPEAKER_00: are we actually going to be successful how do we know if we're going to be successful and why
[07:50] SPEAKER_00: haven't we built a recipe or or know how to replicate it so that we can continue to be successful
[07:57] SPEAKER_00: and so by employing I would say technology here at scale we're going to be able to collect
[08:03] SPEAKER_00: enough data points to better understand how we solve for these problems then it surprised you
[08:09] SPEAKER_01: or does it still surprise you that there's not a lot of resources available to start to validate
[08:15] SPEAKER_01: whether or not the impacts happening the way the people want it to yeah I mean what do you mean by
[08:21] SPEAKER_01: resources yeah so when I talk about that data collection you know it seems to me it's enough
[08:26] SPEAKER_01: okay if I'm trying it's the lean canvas you know you test you measure and then you just
[08:33] SPEAKER_01: and what I'm hearing from you from even the using the literacy example is that people is that
[08:39] SPEAKER_01: there's a lot of data that's not being collected to really understand whether or not your programs
[08:45] SPEAKER_01: or projects or your investments are actually actually paying the return on investment that you
[08:51] SPEAKER_01: want them to so that's what I mean is it's that shock you that that is such a problem given
[08:57] SPEAKER_00: the impact is so important yeah it's just it's disheartening yeah yeah I don't know if it's
[09:10] SPEAKER_00: surprising anymore but you're right so I would say you know like 97% of the market no matter
[09:17] SPEAKER_00: which customer segment we look at isn't quite ready to start doing data collection with software
[09:22] SPEAKER_00: yet and so what's fascinating about that is there's almost like a consultative work or the you know
[09:29] SPEAKER_00: they need you internal strategic planning around you know what are we collecting to prove that
[09:34] SPEAKER_00: our hypotheses which is our activities or our programs or whatever we're investing in as a company
[09:40] SPEAKER_00: is being successful and so yeah it's interesting that it's kind of an afterthought as opposed to
[09:46] SPEAKER_00: it starts at the beginning depends totally on the the sector so you know if it's a non-profit
[09:52] SPEAKER_00: organization or government or private sector right we're going to carry in whether or not they
[09:57] SPEAKER_00: really understand what their their impact objectives are and where do you find the biggest traction
[10:02] SPEAKER_01: for Rital right now by the way I love the spelling of the name it's so cool I just go quickly
[10:09] SPEAKER_01: that for a second how'd you come by me Rital is not spelled with an E R D D L E is and is it that
[10:16] SPEAKER_00: what's the reason behind that spelling so Rital so the way that we arrived at the name Rital was
[10:22] SPEAKER_00: this idea that there's a new breed of investor and this new breed of investors more curious about
[10:28] SPEAKER_00: solving real world problems than they are in a financial return so they're equally curious
[10:33] SPEAKER_00: about solving the problem right like we've got the Gates Foundation through Zuckerberg committing 99
[10:38] SPEAKER_00: percent of his wealth to Warren Buffett and they're genuinely investing in trying to solve you
[10:44] SPEAKER_00: malaria or like sanitization or issues around the world and so it's fascinating watching investors
[10:51] SPEAKER_00: or funders will just say to be more broad but we're in did in genuinely solving these problems
[10:58] SPEAKER_00: as well as making a profit making it sustainable so it's about solving a Rital but we just the simple
[11:06] SPEAKER_00: answer is drop the E because if you google Rital like spelled properly it's you're going to get a
[11:12] SPEAKER_01: bunch of other stuff yeah yeah of course well and ultimately it really defines what you're
[11:17] SPEAKER_01: trying to do solve this you know I mean your company is about solving so of course you're going to
[11:21] SPEAKER_01: be different because of the representation of the theme of what you bring together so you can't
[11:26] SPEAKER_01: it can't look like Rital it's got to say what's that actually mean is the bridal is a Rital or
[11:31] SPEAKER_01: whatever so I love that um so it's so the investment in community is really where you focus the
[11:38] SPEAKER_01: majority of the opportunity for Rital is would that be fair to say yeah for sure so it's and we've
[11:45] SPEAKER_00: started to broaden that but it's the scope of it but essentially we look at a funder as anyone
[11:51] SPEAKER_00: who's investing granting putting money into driving particular environmental and social outcomes
[11:58] SPEAKER_00: now fascinating about that lens is when you apply that to companies or corporations you know
[12:04] SPEAKER_00: there's a lot of companies that are now doing ESG reporting or impact reporting as part of their
[12:10] SPEAKER_00: corporate social responsibility division right or if you look at just ESGs you know that's your
[12:15] SPEAKER_00: environmental social and governance reporting requirements you know that's a more business model
[12:23] SPEAKER_00: and they're making efforts like investments through you know money being reinvested back into
[12:29] SPEAKER_00: the company to reduce you know carbon footprints or improve waste reduction or to improve
[12:38] SPEAKER_00: relationships with employees or to have a greater impact on their community so even if you look at
[12:45] SPEAKER_00: core business models they might not be your obvious funder but they're investing back in themselves
[12:51] SPEAKER_00: to create a living impact in environmental value so it's not just like we look at fund like where
[12:59] SPEAKER_00: funds are being invested to drive those outcomes but we're also interested in companies that
[13:06] SPEAKER_00: are investing back into themselves to drive those outcomes and where we've seen the most urgency
[13:11] SPEAKER_00: and this won't be surprising has been in real estate property development construction oil and gas
[13:20] SPEAKER_00: energy and for less the same reason there's immediate emergency emergency emergency required like
[13:30] SPEAKER_00: tactics that need to be put in place to hit environmental goals but also the public is very aware
[13:35] SPEAKER_00: that they're pretty large mitigators and have a bad environmental and flood print.
[13:41] SPEAKER_01: What playground do you like to play in of all those? Yeah I mean it's when we're focused on
[13:49] SPEAKER_00: solving the problem and so we're really interested in the data and what the data tells us about how
[13:53] SPEAKER_00: do we solve these problems faster and so to me it doesn't matter where the data is coming from
[13:58] SPEAKER_00: if people are investing in driving particular social outcomes we get the data in it becomes another
[14:04] SPEAKER_00: data point so that we can look at aggregates to say okay if we fund these things can we replicate
[14:09] SPEAKER_01: them and can we start solving these problems faster. So tell me about your team who who's on the
[14:15] SPEAKER_01: team at the next or you don't tell me who but how do you structure riddle what's the what's the role
[14:20] SPEAKER_00: structure. Yeah so we're still a really small team we've got three co-founders and developers so
[14:28] SPEAKER_00: that's been predominantly how we've had the whole team structured for the last two years
[14:34] SPEAKER_00: we periodically will bring in expertise or skill sets as contractors when we don't have them so
[14:41] SPEAKER_00: right now that's a lot of like I'd say marketing or content writing we're hiring our first
[14:49] SPEAKER_00: business development role person so doing second interviews this afternoon which is exciting.
[14:56] SPEAKER_01: Well that's actually that actually ties very nice to one of my one of my questions that I was
[15:01] SPEAKER_01: just going to lead into when we first started this conversation you just get off the phone with
[15:05] SPEAKER_01: somebody in Montreal and I'm curious as an entrepreneur as a CEO as a founder you know how does
[15:13] SPEAKER_01: how do you what what is your biz-dead strategy to look like and what tools do you use to
[15:21] SPEAKER_01: get to that person in Montreal can you talk a little bit about that because I see so many entrepreneurs
[15:27] SPEAKER_01: you know you're getting ready to get ready and they never really dive into the whole sales process.
[15:34] SPEAKER_00: Yeah I mean it's funny one of the things I will jokingly say is you know you're just you're just
[15:41] SPEAKER_00: playing business or pretending to play business until you're making money and then profitable so
[15:48] SPEAKER_00: you have exactly yeah you really have to focus on the sales if you actually want to do business
[15:54] SPEAKER_00: and so it was something we started right at the gate for sure as you know in software you don't have
[16:02] SPEAKER_00: product so people can't start using it until you've got your product built but we started having
[16:07] SPEAKER_00: those conversations early on with prospective customers it was tough because we started during COVID
[16:15] SPEAKER_00: right like we were building product and COVID happened and our intention had been to be in market
[16:22] SPEAKER_00: and didn't pan out that way so we really relied on referrals and introductions our networks
[16:30] SPEAKER_00: and I think at an early stage company when you're looking for you know enterprise level or big
[16:37] SPEAKER_00: corporations to work with you know that's probably your best way in without the track record
[16:45] SPEAKER_00: so definitely focused on that in leveraging our networks and getting in as many meetings as possible
[16:52] SPEAKER_00: now that you know borders are opening up again there's trade shows conferences that we've
[16:58] SPEAKER_00: been able to start attending this fall which is maybe significant difference
[17:03] SPEAKER_00: and I'm now based in London England with the intention of being in market so we've got a more
[17:08] SPEAKER_00: mature sophisticated market in the UK and Europe right I still believe in face-to-face
[17:16] SPEAKER_00: business meetings and and believe that that's how relationships are built then how
[17:20] SPEAKER_01: your first sales are made for sure yeah that's so brilliant so so you you're based at a
[17:26] SPEAKER_01: high level but you move to England so how come you were the one that went to England well I think
[17:32] SPEAKER_00: when you're the the CEO and the founder I think for the first few years and maybe it never stops
[17:36] SPEAKER_00: but you're always the one selling yeah I love it I love it
[17:40] SPEAKER_01: I'm sorry did you what was it and I'm intrigued with that that journey of I mean I'm now that I
[17:46] SPEAKER_01: understand the reason why you're over there was it was it you know speak to that to entrepreneurs
[17:52] SPEAKER_01: who are based out of Atlanta Canada and they say I got it no I got to go to England for a couple of
[17:57] SPEAKER_00: years what's what's that transition been like yeah and I don't necessarily believe you have to
[18:03] SPEAKER_00: leave the East Coast in order to do business I think just like into you know it's not easy to fly
[18:09] SPEAKER_00: right now and so it's in market as much as possible I think was important for us right now you know
[18:15] SPEAKER_00: when the world goes back to normal and you can get on your hour and a half light in in
[18:19] SPEAKER_00: the net of New York City in Boston and Toronto then it'll be easier to be I think back in East Coast
[18:26] SPEAKER_00: doing sales again but transition has been really easy the high commissions been really helpful
[18:34] SPEAKER_00: they secured us you know free office space we've gotten like there's some other East Coast startups
[18:41] SPEAKER_00: that have office space here like interhives they've got about 50 people in London
[18:45] SPEAKER_00: right or it was great to you know land in a big city in another country and already have some
[18:52] SPEAKER_01: Canadian and East Coast support did you have any immigration issues when you went there
[18:59] SPEAKER_01: no because I haven't moved here okay okay so so you so it's one of those ones and and again the
[19:06] SPEAKER_01: reason I'm asking these questions is because I want people to really appreciate it's not about
[19:10] SPEAKER_01: doing all this documentation you can still operate business without necessarily residing in that area so
[19:19] SPEAKER_01: do you have to come out after a year and go back the next day like you know like going to the
[19:24] SPEAKER_00: United States from from Halifax yeah I think people call that border hopping rivers you do exactly
[19:33] SPEAKER_00: you're allowed to be in I mean that's an important thing to check like some countries like to be in
[19:38] SPEAKER_00: in the country for three months in the UK I'm allowed to be in here for six months every time you leave
[19:44] SPEAKER_00: it does reset so you know you go home for a little bit and you come back yeah oh that's so cool
[19:50] SPEAKER_01: so what's uh where's uh uh where's Riddle going in the next day you know where's your vision
[19:56] SPEAKER_01: what's uh what's your sense of five years from now it's do where you're gonna where you're gonna
[20:01] SPEAKER_01: want to see uh you're speaking from the platform amongst many of the speaking gigs that you're
[20:05] SPEAKER_01: gonna get and you're gonna go we achieve this and it's so cool to see it yeah I mean I go back to
[20:10] SPEAKER_00: that original vision we're definitely a company that's chasing solving a problem um and it is around
[20:17] SPEAKER_00: this idea that if we can have more and better data um and aggregates we'll be able to better
[20:25] SPEAKER_00: understand if we invest in certain you know environmental impact outcomes or social impact outcomes
[20:33] SPEAKER_00: how do we solve for those can we solve for them faster and then can we replicate them so we're
[20:37] SPEAKER_00: definitely focused on solving that problem so I hope that that's where we're at um we I hope that
[20:45] SPEAKER_00: we have you know lots of different types of sectors and verticals that are using our software so
[20:51] SPEAKER_00: everything from energy and gas to government um you know they're interested but we'll see and
[20:58] SPEAKER_00: I'd love for us to be um in um in in geographically in parts of the world where you know decision
[21:07] SPEAKER_00: makers are located and where head offices are located as well that's so wonderful um you
[21:15] SPEAKER_01: you were hanging out in the back in the backyard of one of my mentors he doesn't know he's my mentor
[21:21] SPEAKER_01: but he is Richard Branson and one of the one of his famous coaches is I don't understand this work
[21:27] SPEAKER_01: life balance he says it's all life so what are you doing for life in London England when you're not
[21:35] SPEAKER_00: doing real life yeah I firmly believe that one life for sure but I've also it's funny the pandemic
[21:42] SPEAKER_00: has taught me um about balance when it comes to not separating work and personal life but when
[21:50] SPEAKER_00: it comes to making sure you make time for yourself and you make time for doing other things that are
[21:55] SPEAKER_00: gonna infuse your work with so much more vibrancy and I think just more creativity and make your
[22:01] SPEAKER_00: brain work better um so yeah I've um I just did two weeks um doing a surf and yoga retreat in
[22:13] SPEAKER_00: I've joined a women's club here so getting out for lots of social time which has been lovely and
[22:19] SPEAKER_00: networking um and the UK culture definitely has um afterwork uh pint a local pub so
[22:28] SPEAKER_01: and I think if I remember correctly it was something on facebook or linkedin where you were
[22:33] SPEAKER_01: attending the uh a football game i.e soccer game at that point time there's that you just
[22:39] SPEAKER_01: seem to be having a good time seem to have pretty good seats too to now so I think that was a
[22:44] SPEAKER_01: soccer game or was it an NFL game that was out yeah no it was a Chelsea football match you got it
[22:49] SPEAKER_01: and I was in the nosebleed section well it looked like you're pretty close to the field
[22:55] SPEAKER_01: you know how do we how do people get a hold of you once the best way uh you know people
[23:00] SPEAKER_01: laying in and out I want her to talk to this person this person this is part of the podcast we
[23:04] SPEAKER_01: want to support um and business in entrepreneurship but before you add answer that can you talk about
[23:10] SPEAKER_01: just briefly uh your journey your your your kind of your overview of being an entrepreneur in
[23:17] SPEAKER_01: Atlanta Canada versus any other region on the planet yeah for sure I think um being an entrepreneur
[23:24] SPEAKER_00: in Atlanta Canada is um special for so many reasons I touching on the fact that I said earlier
[23:31] SPEAKER_00: you know I think business is still really done by relationships you know when you're an early
[23:37] SPEAKER_00: stage startup or you're a new business you really need to leverage and stand on the support of
[23:43] SPEAKER_00: your network and your community and relationships that you've forged previously because they're the
[23:50] SPEAKER_00: ones that are going to give you your stamp of approval um be able to you know make the next step or
[23:55] SPEAKER_00: take the next milestone and you know when that's such a critical um safety net and like kind of stepping
[24:03] SPEAKER_00: stone in the entrepreneurial journey I think Atlantic Canada is one of the best places for that because
[24:09] SPEAKER_00: we're you know it's cliché to say but we're so small that we are well connected as well and
[24:15] SPEAKER_00: the ability to connect with maybe the right person or someone knows the right person for you to talk to
[24:21] SPEAKER_00: um and then sure enough you know those people have international connections and so I find
[24:27] SPEAKER_00: Atlantic Canada as an entrepreneur is a great starting point because it allows for a really strong
[24:34] SPEAKER_00: first step out um and then the other reason I think it's really special is because um there's
[24:43] SPEAKER_00: you know access to capital I think operates in a very similar way so um I think that there's a good
[24:49] SPEAKER_00: amount of capital in the region both private and for funding and grants um also you know pre-COVID
[24:56] SPEAKER_00: getting in and out of the like east coast is incredibly easy when you've got as I mentioned the
[25:04] SPEAKER_00: direct flights to New York that's an hour and a half or to Boston that's a little over you know to
[25:08] SPEAKER_00: and then even to the UK out of Halifax you know that's a four hour direct flight and so
[25:15] SPEAKER_00: very well connected when you can get on those direct flights and it does make business easier
[25:20] SPEAKER_00: and then that last thing is you know talent talent's always difficult in an early stage company
[25:28] SPEAKER_00: and we have a surprising amount of good developers that have been groomed by some earlier successes
[25:37] SPEAKER_00: in the startup world um and we're really fortunate to have such great developers in in the Atlantic
[25:43] SPEAKER_01: region yeah go say that too loud right don't say that too loud because
[25:48] SPEAKER_01: be a lot of poaching that comes in well Janelle this has been amazing sorry yeah we're how can
[25:54] SPEAKER_01: people get it how to obviously you can get a hold of you on link and that's where I came not
[25:59] SPEAKER_01: going on your door to find you for this amazing interview thank you so so so much um how else can
[26:04] SPEAKER_00: people get a touch with you yeah it might email so it's Janelle J.E. and E L L E at riddle.ca
[26:12] SPEAKER_00: on the dot.ca or you can look us up on online at riddle.ca or i do so i love it and follow up and she's
[26:25] SPEAKER_01: she's a lot of fun to hang out with and obviously you can say as an entrepreneur she's
[26:31] SPEAKER_01: did very accomplished and it's got some pretty cool journeys ahead of her and very open to helping
[26:36] SPEAKER_01: entrepreneurs along the way so Janelle thanks this has been great it really has it's great to catch
[26:41] SPEAKER_01: up with you again keep keeping the rock star you are and we'll look forward to the next time we
[26:46] SPEAKER_00: chat thanks rivers thanks for having me