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TRANSCRIPTION WITH SPEAKERS
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[00:00] SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Canada's Podcast.
[00:05] SPEAKER_00: Hi, I'm Cynthia Lockery and welcome to Canada's podcast where we talk to
[00:11] SPEAKER_00: entrepreneurs who are making things happen right here in BC. Today I'm joined
[00:17] SPEAKER_00: by Deneen Allen. Passionate about Canada's rural landscapes and legendary
[00:23] SPEAKER_00: wilderness places, Deneen is set to help tourism and hospitality
[00:28] SPEAKER_00: entrepreneurs across Canada to raise the bar in creating new and unique
[00:34] SPEAKER_00: visitor experiences. So welcome to this show. I'm looking forward to learning
[00:40] SPEAKER_00: more about your story. So let's jump in and why don't you tell us a little bit
[00:45] SPEAKER_01: about yourself and your current business. Thank you Cynthia. That was a really
[00:51] SPEAKER_01: great introduction. I think it says a lot about what I'm doing. It's been a bit of
[00:58] SPEAKER_01: journey, but the business that that I have right now is fire circle. And fire
[01:04] SPEAKER_01: circle is Canada's only online tourism entrepreneur accelerator. It's a bit of
[01:11] SPEAKER_01: a mouthful, but that's that's my current passion and we're in spending most
[01:17] SPEAKER_01: of my time while I'm still also consulting through pure north on some
[01:22] SPEAKER_00: larger projects in the country. So that's definitely a busy person there.
[01:28] SPEAKER_00: So what inspired you to go down this role of not only being an entrepreneur,
[01:35] SPEAKER_00: but being an entrepreneur who helps entrepreneurs? Well what inspired me to be
[01:40] SPEAKER_01: an entrepreneur, I think it entrepreneurship did find me in a way. It wasn't that I
[01:46] SPEAKER_01: sort of intended always to be out on my own, but I think that the combination of
[01:52] SPEAKER_01: things that I fell in love with, which is interior design and construction and
[01:57] SPEAKER_01: food and beverage and then hospitality all kept leading me in the direction of
[02:02] SPEAKER_01: maybe trying to find my own way to use these things that I had been learning in
[02:08] SPEAKER_01: some of my earlier years out of university and putting them together in a
[02:15] SPEAKER_01: business. And so I think that I'm an accidental entrepreneur in a little bit
[02:24] SPEAKER_01: of a sense and I can delve into so many adventures that I've had in the
[02:31] SPEAKER_01: world of entrepreneurship. But I think that all of the learning that I've done
[02:36] SPEAKER_01: in tourism and hospitality particularly, I realized that I was carrying
[02:42] SPEAKER_01: around a wealth of knowledge and in the other consulting that I do across
[02:47] SPEAKER_01: Canada on tourism and hospitality projects, I realized that there wasn't a
[02:53] SPEAKER_01: real gap in mentorship, in working with other entrepreneurs, other small
[02:59] SPEAKER_01: business owners who, you know, you could see the passion and the drive that
[03:05] SPEAKER_01: they had to, you know, to apply to their businesses and build their businesses.
[03:11] SPEAKER_01: But there was knowledge missing. There were things that they could have, but they
[03:15] SPEAKER_01: were leaving things on the table as I like to say, you know, and so, and fire
[03:22] SPEAKER_01: circle really is inspired by all of these encounters with other entrepreneurs,
[03:30] SPEAKER_01: with other organizations who were 75% of the way there, but you knew that you
[03:37] SPEAKER_01: could get them across the finish line or, you know, you knew that there was
[03:41] SPEAKER_01: more that they could do to make their businesses successful. And I think
[03:46] SPEAKER_01: that's really the root of what I'm doing now is trying to share the
[03:52] SPEAKER_01: knowledge and, you know, I didn't have a mentor like that when I was starting
[03:57] SPEAKER_00: all of my business. So as you're mentoring, are there common challenges that
[04:03] SPEAKER_01: you're seeing arise? Well, absolutely. I mean, in small business in particular,
[04:11] SPEAKER_01: small and medium size enterprises in Canada, you know, the statistics for
[04:15] SPEAKER_01: failure are very high when people go into starting a small business. And
[04:21] SPEAKER_01: financial literacy is one of the biggest challenges that I see out there. I'm
[04:29] SPEAKER_01: encouraged when I hear that financial literacy is now maybe being introduced
[04:35] SPEAKER_01: a little bit into secondary school. And definitely, I believe that everyone
[04:43] SPEAKER_01: should pursue some knowledge of financial management if they're planning to
[04:48] SPEAKER_01: own a business. It doesn't matter how passionate you are if if you don't know
[04:53] SPEAKER_01: how to manage your cash flow, it's unlikely that you're yet that you're going
[04:58] SPEAKER_01: to succeed. So that's that's one of the challenges. And I would say the other
[05:02] SPEAKER_01: one, especially in Canada, because we're so geographically dispersed and when
[05:09] SPEAKER_01: you get out into rural and remote, there are not a lot of references for people
[05:15] SPEAKER_01: who start small businesses, especially in remote, but definitely even in rural.
[05:21] SPEAKER_01: I've said this so many times, if you're in a nervous center and you want to start
[05:28] SPEAKER_01: a hotel or a cafe or a tour company, you have dozens and dozens of points of
[05:38] SPEAKER_01: reference to guide you in your entrepreneurial journey. You know what art
[05:43] SPEAKER_01: so this business or that business would you like to incorporate in shares or
[05:50] SPEAKER_01: have as part of your business. So I think the points of reference are lacking when you get out
[05:57] SPEAKER_01: into rural and remote. The lack of experience with what is competitive in the global marketplace,
[06:06] SPEAKER_01: what it truly means to operate and present your physical product in a super compelling and
[06:14] SPEAKER_01: competitive way, that's missing a lot. And it's not from again, not from lack of passion, not
[06:23] SPEAKER_01: from lack of wanting to do a good job. It's just simply not having travel experience themselves
[06:31] SPEAKER_01: or the interaction with all these different levels of and qualities of tourism and hospitality
[06:40] SPEAKER_00: distance those. I can see that living in a rural community myself. Is there one piece of knowledge
[06:48] SPEAKER_00: or information about your industry in particular that would be of interest to listeners?
[06:55] SPEAKER_01: Now it's a big question. That's a big question. How do how to find your customers?
[07:04] SPEAKER_01: We get asked this a lot like how do I know where my customers are? How do I find more customers?
[07:12] SPEAKER_01: Oh there's so much I could say today because we're just going through the horrible wildfire situation,
[07:20] SPEAKER_01: so many of our clients and colleagues and friends and family are in these places that are
[07:28] SPEAKER_01: experiencing wildfires. But I would say that finding your customers means that you have to really
[07:43] SPEAKER_01: understand who you are first. You know you really have to understand why you're getting involved
[07:50] SPEAKER_01: in this business or why you're running your business. You have to understand your own values.
[07:55] SPEAKER_01: You have to understand the themes that your business is communicating. Many operators don't
[08:00] SPEAKER_01: actually understand that they're communicating messages every single minute that they're in
[08:07] SPEAKER_01: business whether it's on social or whether it's in real life with their customers at their place
[08:13] SPEAKER_01: at business. We are moving beyond demographics in marketing. We're even moving beyond
[08:21] SPEAKER_01: psychographics and we're definitely in a place where we should be looking at value graphics which
[08:32] SPEAKER_01: is really what are the things that people value? How are those aligned with your values as a business?
[08:41] SPEAKER_01: You know what what kinds of people do you want to have come to your business? And finding that
[08:48] SPEAKER_01: values alignment is the simplest way to find your customers because they will recognize the values
[08:56] SPEAKER_01: that you hold and it will resonate for them and it's about relationships, about building relationships
[09:03] SPEAKER_01: with people who think like you or aspire to you know be it a place where they think certain values
[09:13] SPEAKER_01: are represented. So I think that's a pretty common question for us on the marketing piece.
[09:21] SPEAKER_00: And it makes sense because I see a lot of time people are more concerned about
[09:27] SPEAKER_00: being saying what they think people want to hear or trying to act in a certain way to attract
[09:34] SPEAKER_00: instead of having that grounding themselves and being clear and attracting from there.
[09:41] SPEAKER_01: That's so well said Cynthia absolutely and you know we hear this word being sort of hand it around a
[09:50] SPEAKER_01: lot which is authenticity and of course authenticity you know people can see right through you.
[09:56] SPEAKER_01: Your customers will see right through you if you are not being honest or you know your true self.
[10:03] SPEAKER_01: They can they can spot that a mile away so it's not serving anybody to yeah to not be your
[10:12] SPEAKER_01: authentic self and and put forth what you you know what you really are about.
[10:17] SPEAKER_00: Yeah and I think that's great advice for anybody listening who's an entrepreneur regardless
[10:23] SPEAKER_00: of your industry that really tap in and take the time to get to know who you are.
[10:29] SPEAKER_01: Yes foundational work yes.
[10:34] SPEAKER_00: You were talking to somebody who was starting out as an entrepreneur and I know you that you do
[10:39] SPEAKER_00: talk to people who are just starting out is there regardless of where they are and I love the
[10:45] SPEAKER_00: authenticity is there any other advice that you think are really foundational pieces to help you
[10:50] SPEAKER_01: on your entrepreneur journey. Well we like to remind our especially our brand new entrepreneurs
[11:00] SPEAKER_01: that it's you know it's not a straight line I call them left hand turns and they will make a lot
[11:08] SPEAKER_01: of left hand turns and it's that idea of you know you came to us with a vision now we're exploring
[11:16] SPEAKER_01: the viability and the feasibility of your vision so never take your eye off the vision just you
[11:24] SPEAKER_01: may have to massage it you may have to alter it a bit you may have to make some concessions
[11:31] SPEAKER_01: but just don't take your eye off the ball you know just having that purpose and that
[11:37] SPEAKER_01: goal of trying to get to where you're envisioning I think that is our number one piece of advice.
[11:45] SPEAKER_00: So let's look at being in BC so you're located in BC and I know you serve people across the country
[11:52] SPEAKER_00: what are some of the benefits of being based in this province?
[11:58] SPEAKER_01: Well my goodness I was born here so I'm completely biased I've lived in many places in Canada but I
[12:05] SPEAKER_01: was born here in Vancouver and I'm happy to be back there are that's a tough question for me to
[12:14] SPEAKER_01: answer Cynthia because we do work all over Canada but if being in BC I guess no one's a
[12:20] SPEAKER_01: wonderful advantage of the lifestyle that I get to live in a place like Vancouver and the
[12:26] SPEAKER_01: West Coast and it inspires me every day you know and in my work and when I'm trying to find that
[12:34] SPEAKER_01: balance of being able to enjoy where I live as well as working here I think that because I lived in
[12:42] SPEAKER_01: other parts of the country I have an interesting perspective on the minds that of let's say coming
[12:48] SPEAKER_01: from Ontario or being in Alberta the Northwest Territories so it's yeah I think all different parts
[12:57] SPEAKER_01: of the country definitely have a little bit of a different approach to business I actually can
[13:04] SPEAKER_01: see that after living in different provinces and territories and I think we're a little more
[13:07] SPEAKER_01: relaxed here in BC I would say in a good way in a good way you know in a little bit more casual way
[13:14] SPEAKER_00: maybe well I'm an Ontario transplant to BC so I can definitely say it is more relaxed here um so what
[13:22] SPEAKER_00: is something that was just in Ontario a couple months ago and it's more relaxed um what are some
[13:29] SPEAKER_00: of the challenges that you've encountered being in BC or that you see can be a little bit more
[13:34] SPEAKER_00: difficult than if you were based in another part of Canada
[13:41] SPEAKER_01: well the more so I was there too I were we're in the South Territories um
[13:49] SPEAKER_01: translating our entire fire circle 5x5 method which is our foundational program for fire
[13:55] SPEAKER_01: circle we're translating it into French I feel like if if I were in Ontario again
[14:01] SPEAKER_01: or closer to the larger francophone community that you know that that might that might maybe be more
[14:12] SPEAKER_01: uh I don't know it just might support some of the things that we're doing out there although
[14:17] SPEAKER_01: we do have francophone mentors and and you know we provide that kind of mentorship in French
[14:25] SPEAKER_01: and then remote you know always where you know people who are living in in rural communities they
[14:35] SPEAKER_01: like to meet you they like to be face-to-face with you and definitely when you're in Indigenous
[14:43] SPEAKER_01: North this is very important you know that we and on occasion not just the virtual in our mentorship
[14:52] SPEAKER_01: in our programs but that we can actually be in person with some of our clients so I think you know
[15:00] SPEAKER_01: Canada is I remember a friend of mine once called it the the tyranny of geography in Canada and
[15:07] SPEAKER_01: we really we suffer a little bit for that right where it's just not that easy to get in front of
[15:13] SPEAKER_00: somebody based to face and build a relationship in real life you know so yes so let's talk
[15:22] SPEAKER_00: about successes um how do you define success but more importantly how do you celebrate
[15:31] SPEAKER_01: you mentioned you were going to ask me this question and I've talked about it a lot and I'm not sure
[15:37] SPEAKER_01: how other entrepreneurs feel but I I struggled to manage to celebrate my successes you know because
[15:45] SPEAKER_01: as an entrepreneur you're always uh hey I hold the bar high for what I'm trying to achieve and
[15:52] SPEAKER_01: probably need to celebrate a little bit more often when we do have wins what I love about my team
[16:01] SPEAKER_01: is that um and that's part of this how do I define success the success for me right now
[16:08] SPEAKER_01: is that I have a core team of seven people working with me that's six more brains than mine
[16:16] SPEAKER_01: that to me is huge success and we have 26 mentors and facilitators so it's like we have over 30 brains
[16:25] SPEAKER_01: you know working together and to me that's a that's a huge success for for me personally um and they're
[16:34] SPEAKER_01: very good at reminding me when we should be celebrating success so sometimes you need to be reminded
[16:42] SPEAKER_01: by those around you um and uh yeah so I did did I answer the full question yeah and I think that's
[16:50] SPEAKER_00: great and I love how it's how you recognize that one person can't hold it all and one person can't
[16:57] SPEAKER_00: have all the answers it takes those personalities it takes that team so let's talk about fear and
[17:06] SPEAKER_01: doubt me how do you do you fear out isn't that just like aren't those two words that come right
[17:16] SPEAKER_01: after entrepreneur basically isn't there an acronym that takes in those three words uh oh my goodness
[17:25] SPEAKER_01: uh well uh I am I would say both uh I am fearless but the fear never goes away so as an entrepreneur
[17:38] SPEAKER_01: you you recognize something in yourself that is really resilient like you know you have to have
[17:47] SPEAKER_01: grit if you're going to do something on your own run your own business small business large
[17:54] SPEAKER_01: business you have to have this level of perseverance and grit that sometimes
[18:01] SPEAKER_01: downs other people and you know for you it's just like your normal
[18:06] SPEAKER_01: force of uh how you address things but the fear never goes away and you know this I hear at all the
[18:14] SPEAKER_01: time even from people who are very successful the whole imposter syndrome it's it's it's kind of
[18:20] SPEAKER_01: always out there right a cycle how did I get here and you know do I deserve to be here and
[18:27] SPEAKER_01: so there's a lot of you know self-talk that goes on in my brain about um well you know you're here
[18:34] SPEAKER_01: now you got here somehow so I guess you did a few things right and um yeah but I don't think
[18:41] SPEAKER_01: those things go away I did just part of they're part of my day right and you just kind of
[18:47] SPEAKER_00: uh work through them I guess you know and do you think imposter syndrome is um carried a little bit
[18:54] SPEAKER_01: heavier by women I've heard just as many men you know tell tell me this so absolutely not I think
[19:04] SPEAKER_01: if you're not hearing it from from men they're just not saying it out loud
[19:09] SPEAKER_00: yeah it's pretty cool now let's talk about where you think your business is going to be in five
[19:17] SPEAKER_01: years or where you'd like it to be well I would like for uh for our full frank phone program to be
[19:26] SPEAKER_01: launched uh we're also uh building a program that is for entrepreneurs with disabilities
[19:33] SPEAKER_01: for hearing and site disabilities and I would like for my whole team to still be together still
[19:43] SPEAKER_01: kicking butt doing what we're doing now I would like to have had thousands of entrepreneurs
[19:50] SPEAKER_01: through fire circle and in instead of hundreds right now we're in the hundreds um and I would like
[19:57] SPEAKER_01: to know that we're we're so excited right now every time that we get a review whether it's a
[20:05] SPEAKER_01: review within the program or a Google review and you know it's just so maybe that is a little bit
[20:11] SPEAKER_01: of celebration that's happening there to go back to your other question we definitely jump up and
[20:16] SPEAKER_01: not pretty happy about those um that that if we can keep making a difference like that if we can
[20:24] SPEAKER_01: keep getting our entrepreneurs that they're still saying to us in five years you are changing my
[20:33] SPEAKER_01: thinking I have never heard or are you are changing my business my business is stronger because of
[20:42] SPEAKER_01: this work that we're doing with you that's that's all I need to hear I'm still hearing that in five
[20:48] SPEAKER_00: years I'll be I'll be thrilled that is a great thing to hear um and is there any routines that
[20:56] SPEAKER_00: you have in place that kind of help you either stay grounded or or be as productive as you can
[21:06] SPEAKER_01: I've learned the hard way so for all of the entrepreneurs who are out there we might be listening to
[21:12] SPEAKER_01: this and are working 80 hours a week um they don't write that on in your eulogy they don't write that
[21:23] SPEAKER_01: you worked 80 hours a week and weren't you an amazing person because you worked 80 or 90 hours a
[21:29] SPEAKER_01: week I hope you get past the insane schedule because it is sometimes necessary I think we've all been
[21:38] SPEAKER_01: there when we've been starting businesses I certainly have been um the but sleep is very important
[21:47] SPEAKER_01: and so is trying to be physically fit whatever that means to everybody but that's certainly been
[21:55] SPEAKER_01: a really important thing to me and spending time with family and friends because we tend to
[22:02] SPEAKER_01: forget about certain people when we're in the thick of our entrepreneurial insanity and when it comes
[22:10] SPEAKER_01: to you know what's really important it's it's not it's not our businesses so it is our friends it is
[22:20] SPEAKER_00: our family so that's really come home in the last few years well and I remember a study that was
[22:27] SPEAKER_00: all over the news a few years ago that once you reach 40 hours of work your productivity anything
[22:35] SPEAKER_00: over 40 goes down and by the time you get to 50 hours I think it was like half the productivity so
[22:42] SPEAKER_00: you're actually not producing anymore the longer you work you're actually decreasing your own
[22:47] SPEAKER_01: productivity yeah and that's the biggest lesson I learned out of exactly that is is delegation and
[22:54] SPEAKER_01: that was a really hard lesson to learn but it's really what has saved me over the last few years
[23:02] SPEAKER_01: and it's that's been a bit of a revelation and that's where this whole staying in your genius zone
[23:09] SPEAKER_01: comes home to me it's like you know what being my own bookkeeper being not that I've ever been my own
[23:15] SPEAKER_01: bookkeeper but you know a lot of us try and do these things that we're we're not cut out for that
[23:20] SPEAKER_01: we're cut out for the thing that we're holding the vision and the passion for and the rest can
[23:24] SPEAKER_01: be delegated took me a long time to learn not but it's definitely how you are sustainable and how
[23:30] SPEAKER_00: you don't work 90 hours a week so absolutely own your genius and and stay in that lane so is there
[23:39] SPEAKER_00: any advice that you've received personally or or books you've read or anything that you've heard
[23:45] SPEAKER_00: that's really resonated with you that you want to share with listeners today oh for sure
[23:54] SPEAKER_01: well many of you might have already read it but the the seven laws of success which is the
[23:59] SPEAKER_01: practical press sort of little tone on where we should really be placing our thinking and
[24:08] SPEAKER_01: and our mindfulness and this whole idea of detached involvement I'm trying to practice that
[24:18] SPEAKER_01: every minute that that that little book has been a bit of a game changer for me just practicing
[24:28] SPEAKER_01: detached involvement trying not to let everything come in on you and still you know trying to
[24:37] SPEAKER_01: trying to maintain perspective you know as best as you can yeah I think that would be some that
[24:46] SPEAKER_01: someone gave me that book that wasn't something I went and found so that was the recommended reading
[24:51] SPEAKER_00: from someone so yeah good recommendation and before we end today is there anything else you want
[24:58] SPEAKER_01: to share or add oh so many things my my favorite quote of all time is Daniel Burnham
[25:07] SPEAKER_01: he was an architect and his quote starts out make no little plans they of themselves have
[25:17] SPEAKER_01: no magic stir men's or women's hearts so make no little plans everybody make big plans
[25:26] SPEAKER_00: oh that's good advice well thank you for joining us today and um we look forward to talking to you
[25:34] SPEAKER_00: in the future thank you Cynthia it's been my pleasure thanks for having me thank you
