Built a Law Firm from Scratch — Now He’s Helping Others

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[00:00] SPEAKER_02: Welcome to Canada's Entrepreneur, where we talk to the entrepreneurs who are making it happen
[00:05] SPEAKER_02: across Canada and deliver the news, trends, knowledge and opinions from entrepreneurs and business
[00:13] SPEAKER_02: influences across the country. Hi, I'm Fulgless, founder and CEO of Canada's Entrepreneur,
[00:21] SPEAKER_02: coming to you from Toronto. After graduating from Osgoode Hall Law School, Andrew Fielstein
[00:28] SPEAKER_02: established Philstein Family Law Group in 1994. The firm has grown to include 11 family
[00:37] SPEAKER_02: law lawyers and a strong support staff. As the senior lawyer in the firm, Andrew makes
[00:44] SPEAKER_02: his personal goal to achieve optimum results for all of his clients. Andrew's passion
[00:51] SPEAKER_02: for family law has directed his practice to focus exclusively in this area. Andrew created
[00:58] SPEAKER_02: the Ask Andrew Show, a one-hour phone in and Q&A show that is streamed live on YouTube and Facebook.
[01:05] SPEAKER_02: Calls can text email call, message or YouTube comments and questions. All the questions
[01:12] SPEAKER_02: are answered for free. Andrew, welcome to Canada's Entrepreneur, great to meet you. I want to start things
[01:25] SPEAKER_02: as I normally do before we get yacking about things. Just tell everyone a little bit about who you are,
[01:35] SPEAKER_02: what you do and how you got here. Three to four minutes synopsis, if you like.
[01:40] SPEAKER_00: Well, who I am, I'm a family law lawyer and I've been practicing law since 1994 when I got my
[01:48] SPEAKER_00: call to the bar. We're at a firm that's exclusively practicing in the area of family law. We're
[01:54] SPEAKER_00: 10 lawyers and we have offices in Markham, Vaughan, Mississauga and Oakville. We do all areas of
[02:00] SPEAKER_00: family law other than marriage contracts, cohabitation agreements and children's aid cases.
[02:07] SPEAKER_00: In terms of where we practice, we do practice through most of Ontario, but I wouldn't say if I'm
[02:14] SPEAKER_00: in Northern Ontario, I would necessarily want to pay for us to come down to Northern Ontario,
[02:18] SPEAKER_00: but certainly all over the GTA and extended areas like Barry Hamilton, some of them say,
[02:24] SPEAKER_00: go to St. Catharines, London, been over a good part of the profits. So that's who we are now. We
[02:31] SPEAKER_00: deal with a lot of cases that we represent entrepreneurs, we represent high net worth people,
[02:37] SPEAKER_00: we represent them or their spouses in cases where we're dealing with support issues,
[02:43] SPEAKER_00: parenting issues, property issues and a lot of times they have some complex and quite frankly,
[02:49] SPEAKER_00: I find enjoyable in the sense that there's some real intellectual challenges to some of those cases
[02:54] SPEAKER_00: and that makes it a little bit more fun than the everyday thing. In terms of where I came from
[03:00] SPEAKER_00: and how I came to be, well, I became a lawyer in 1994 and back then it was a really bad economy
[03:06] SPEAKER_00: and I started my own practice on my first day after being called to the bar as a lawyer.
[03:12] SPEAKER_00: Then I started out doing everything, except for criminal law. So I did everything and over the next,
[03:19] SPEAKER_00: I'd say, seven, eight years, my practice started to focus more and more between half time doing
[03:24] SPEAKER_00: corporate commercial work and half time doing family law work. I probably couldn't have planned
[03:30] SPEAKER_00: it any better in the sense that once I became doing exclusively family law, having done the
[03:36] SPEAKER_00: corporate commercial work was a terrific avenue to be in because it gives me a different kind of
[03:41] SPEAKER_00: understanding and appreciation of what takes place in corporate commercial world, which then
[03:48] SPEAKER_00: flows into family law when we're dealing with self-employed individuals. So that was really
[03:53] SPEAKER_00: helpful at my development as a lawyer and helping me train the associates at all work here,
[03:58] SPEAKER_00: being the nine other lawyers. The other part of my history that was helpful was that my father
[04:03] SPEAKER_00: was an accountant to my brothers were accountants and I worked with them before I became a lawyer
[04:07] SPEAKER_00: during some summers. So it gave me an understanding of accounting issues, which as a family law lawyer
[04:14] SPEAKER_00: is critical because we're often reading business valuation reports, income reports for people
[04:19] SPEAKER_00: and it gave me the foundation to really understand and be able to review financial statements and
[04:25] SPEAKER_00: teach my associates. I always say to them, there's a story when you read the financial statements
[04:30] SPEAKER_00: of a company and it's really important to be able to understand what the story is and how to
[04:34] SPEAKER_00: spot things at least well enough to know when you need the help of an expert's report.
[04:41] SPEAKER_02: So, you know, you built a past 30 years, you built a pretty decent sized practice.
[04:54] SPEAKER_02: One of the top three things you've learned over those 30 years,
[05:02] SPEAKER_02: which is really an entrepreneurial journey, basically.
[05:06] SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm not going to focus on the side of being a lawyer because I don't think that's really what
[05:10] SPEAKER_00: this is about. So I'll focus more on the entrepreneurial side. When I look at it from that
[05:15] SPEAKER_00: perspective, the world has changed dramatically. When I started out, I was a big yellow page advertiser.
[05:21] SPEAKER_00: I had double page ads, the spine and that was really where business was at.
[05:26] SPEAKER_00: And now it's changed over to a world of paid ads, social media posts, doing podcasts or videos.
[05:34] SPEAKER_00: And it's about staying relevant, staying top of mind is one really important thing so that when
[05:40] SPEAKER_00: people know they need a family lawyer, they're hopefully going to know where to go. So I have a
[05:45] SPEAKER_00: website that's full of information and as people are going down the journey of separation,
[05:50] SPEAKER_00: we probably have one of the most viewed family law websites as an information-based website.
[05:56] SPEAKER_00: And people will come to it and read it and read it and read it. And then hopefully,
[06:00] SPEAKER_00: when it's time that they need to hire somebody, they'll come to us. The other piece that's critical
[06:05] SPEAKER_00: in it, I think it's no different than any business, is the speed in which your intake staff
[06:10] SPEAKER_00: communicates to people when they make the inquiries. So when someone either calls or emails or text
[06:16] SPEAKER_00: the office for an inquiry to book a consultation, the speed in which we respond to it, I think,
[06:22] SPEAKER_00: is critical, meaning either if it's a call. You got to answer it. You don't want to take a message.
[06:27] SPEAKER_00: You don't want to call people back. You want to deal with them on the phone.
[06:31] SPEAKER_00: If they send in an inquiry through an electronic, means you want to call them back either right away
[06:36] SPEAKER_00: or call them back at the time they asked you to call them back. To me, speed is critical in that
[06:42] SPEAKER_00: part of the journey. The other part is appreciating that when you're dealing with people in my industry,
[06:49] SPEAKER_00: we're dealing with them at their absolute worst. And we have to be able to lend an empathetic
[06:55] SPEAKER_00: ear to their needs. I've lived through a divorce. I'm a divorced parent.
[07:00] SPEAKER_00: So I learned what it's like to go down that journey, which is no fun. And it's important that our
[07:06] SPEAKER_00: clients understand that we can appreciate what their journey is at that time.
[07:11] SPEAKER_02: I was thinking about that when I was reading through your background. I think, you know, I feel like
[07:17] SPEAKER_02: today, families have seen a lot of change. You've been doing for 30 years. I think the family
[07:26] SPEAKER_02: structures are not necessarily the same as they were even 20 years ago. Can you tell us a little
[07:34] SPEAKER_02: bit about your experience of this? Those changes in, you know, saying the last two decades, basically?
[07:43] SPEAKER_00: Well, the type of changes we obviously see, there's some that jump off the page and are really
[07:47] SPEAKER_00: obvious. We see a lot more same-sex relationships. So whether they're the parents of the children
[07:53] SPEAKER_00: or it's someone who is separated and now was involved in a same-sex relationship,
[07:58] SPEAKER_00: that's a piece that's changed in terms of the kind of relationships we see. But at the end of
[08:04] SPEAKER_00: the day, it really isn't that different. It's two adults in a house who are caring for the children.
[08:10] SPEAKER_00: We rarely see, I can't remember if I've even seen it where there may be three adults in one
[08:15] SPEAKER_00: of us holding a relationship. I've had friends tell me about some of those cases. We have some
[08:22] SPEAKER_00: where it's not really polygamous marriage, but sort of. And what I mean by that is, in Ontario and in
[08:28] SPEAKER_00: Canada, you can't get married if you still are married. But some people will go have a religious
[08:34] SPEAKER_00: marriage, which is perfectly legal because they understand that they can't file for a legal
[08:40] SPEAKER_00: marriage and then try to continue on because they feel that they're living in accordance with
[08:45] SPEAKER_00: their faith by getting the religious marriage and that's a prerequisite for the relationship.
[08:49] SPEAKER_00: That's a change we've seen. Also, there's a lot more multi-generational households than what we
[08:55] SPEAKER_00: used to see. And a big part of that just has to do with housing costs. I remember when I became a
[09:00] SPEAKER_00: lawyer, the norm would be the couple separated. They were living in there. I'll say three or four
[09:06] SPEAKER_00: thousand square foot home. They would say, okay, we're going to sell our house and they both could
[09:11] SPEAKER_00: afford to downsize to a town home. Now, far too often, they're already living in the small house
[09:18] SPEAKER_00: because it's already seven figures. And there is nowhere for them to downsize and they don't want
[09:25] SPEAKER_00: to look at rentals or they have no choice. But then when they look at the rentals and if
[09:29] SPEAKER_00: they have two children that are opposite sex or three children, they don't find that they can
[09:34] SPEAKER_00: get a rental in their price range. And now, all of a sudden, they're moving back in with their
[09:38] SPEAKER_00: children to their parents' home. And now you're having these multi-generational families in the home
[09:43] SPEAKER_00: that are all helping to care for the children post-separation.
[09:49] SPEAKER_02: You know, what would you say having built such a good practice? What's the ingredient
[09:58] SPEAKER_02: this made this happen? You know, not everyone can do that. What do you think?
[10:06] SPEAKER_02: What skills have you put into it that maybe others have?
[10:11] SPEAKER_00: Well, I think number one, if you're going to be a good lawyer and you're going to build a practice,
[10:16] SPEAKER_00: you can't be afraid of hard work. And that means you're putting in your long hours. It means,
[10:21] SPEAKER_00: you know, I think when I started my practice of it, probably I took one day off a month when I was
[10:26] SPEAKER_00: a young lawyer. I'm regularly here until seven o'clock at night working. And that's after 30
[10:33] SPEAKER_00: some odd years. I say that because hard work is a key ingredient. The other part is having the
[10:40] SPEAKER_00: foresight to say, what kind of advertising will work? You know, when I started how I said, when I
[10:46] SPEAKER_00: started my practice, I did everything. I also learned fairly quickly what type of clients were
[10:52] SPEAKER_00: coming in from advertising because when I started, I did a TV guide channel commercial in the local
[10:57] SPEAKER_00: area. I did yellow pages. I did the local newspaper. And I noticed very quickly that when you
[11:02] SPEAKER_00: advertised various areas of practice, A, you didn't get much traction. And B, you, I got more
[11:09] SPEAKER_00: family law than anything else. So you have to also realize what type of ad should you be doing?
[11:15] SPEAKER_00: And you need to be tracking your ads and figuring out what works versus what doesn't work. And it's
[11:20] SPEAKER_00: different today. You spend money on your paid ads for Google and social media and you have to be
[11:25] SPEAKER_02: monitoring what works and what doesn't. And I was interested in me. You were talking before we started
[11:32] SPEAKER_02: about your Facebook and YouTube channel. You do, you do it a weekly show. What made you do that?
[11:41] SPEAKER_00: That was, that was twofold actually. I used to do a lot of media and I've always enjoyed doing
[11:47] SPEAKER_00: the media. And I felt that it was a good idea to do a question and answer show because there's a lot of
[11:54] SPEAKER_00: wrong information out there about family law. And I like being able to provide the public with
[11:59] SPEAKER_00: some information and people who do, who, a lot of people are self-represented now in family law
[12:05] SPEAKER_00: because they can't afford a family law lawyer. So I like to be able to provide some information
[12:10] SPEAKER_00: for people in a way that's hopefully assisting them at being able to get a reasonable resolution.
[12:17] SPEAKER_00: One of the biggest problems that we have for self-represented people in family law, it's almost
[12:23] SPEAKER_00: the same as I think of when you go into the doctor's office and you've read too much about what
[12:28] SPEAKER_00: type of symptoms you think you've read on Google. I often call it doctor Google and you can find all
[12:33] SPEAKER_00: sorts of problems that aren't real. And a doctor can look at it and give you what the reasonable
[12:37] SPEAKER_00: explanation for your situation is. It's no different in family law. Self-rep person, there's so much
[12:43] SPEAKER_00: information out there, but a lot of it is wrong information. A lot of it is they may be applying it
[12:48] SPEAKER_00: the wrong way. Legislation has words like may and they think they're going to go convince a judge
[12:53] SPEAKER_00: to based on a section of a statute that says may and I can tell them in my 31 years, I've only
[12:59] SPEAKER_00: seen that happen one time and it was an extraordinary circumstance. And so it's trying to bring people to
[13:04] SPEAKER_00: appreciate the reality because the worst thing that can happen to a divorced family is
[13:10] SPEAKER_00: having a long run out trial where all the horrific things are said about the other one and
[13:17] SPEAKER_00: terrible things are said. And then after that trial is over, these two people have to co-parent
[13:22] SPEAKER_01: their kids. How does that work? So, you know, we've been in view, I've been in view the fair amount
[13:31] SPEAKER_02: of lawyers in the past and you know, FinTech, LegalTech, AI, etc., etc. Is that going to impact
[13:42] SPEAKER_02: family law as much as this impact if some of the other areas? The difference is it may impact it
[13:50] SPEAKER_00: with some of the self-represented people, but a large part of what we do is a judgment call
[13:57] SPEAKER_00: based on facts that require human thought. So, one of the questions you're going to have is someone
[14:06] SPEAKER_00: going to run away and not pay. That's an issue in cases. What's the likelihood of it? What's the
[14:12] SPEAKER_00: threat analysis you're going to do of it? What court are you going to? What judge you may be drawn?
[14:18] SPEAKER_00: What certain courts are like? There's a lot of intuitive gut feelings that we're going along with
[14:24] SPEAKER_00: when we try to apply what we think is going to happen. And sometimes I can go to court think I've
[14:30] SPEAKER_00: a great case and then when I get to the court house or I check on the court file online and I see
[14:36] SPEAKER_00: what judge I have, I may know I have a good case or a bad case. My movement of my case goes
[14:41] SPEAKER_00: up or down based on the judge I have. So, there's a lot of intuitive parts that go into it and how
[14:48] SPEAKER_00: you present things to a judge that AI can't do the same way. What AI can do is where we have to do
[14:55] SPEAKER_00: the review of documentary disclosure, AI may be able to do that far better than us and alert us
[15:01] SPEAKER_00: to certain anomalies so we can see it. But let's face it, that's not the fun work for a lawyer
[15:06] SPEAKER_00: anyways. We really don't want to do that stuff. We're happy to have the help.
[15:11] SPEAKER_02: What's been the greatest challenge that you faced in your business?
[15:18] SPEAKER_00: To date. Well, I think it's like a lot of things. It's finding good people.
[15:24] SPEAKER_00: That's the hardest challenge. So, of the nine associates that I have here, a number of them trained
[15:30] SPEAKER_00: as article in students with me are joined be with their fairly young in their careers as lawyers
[15:34] SPEAKER_00: because I find often if you hire people from other firms, they're not where you want them to be.
[15:39] SPEAKER_00: We have our own way, our own process and we think we do really good work for our clients. And it's
[15:45] SPEAKER_00: hard because if you have someone else come in and they're not at your standard, well, you don't
[15:49] SPEAKER_00: feel comfortable with that person providing advice to your clients. So, at the end of the day,
[15:54] SPEAKER_00: the hardest thing is finding good people. And I have confidence that people we have right now are
[15:59] SPEAKER_00: good people, but we are trying to always train through our article in program to get people where
[16:03] SPEAKER_00: we want them to be to be ready as lawyers. Well, what advice would you give a young lawyer
[16:11] SPEAKER_00: beginning now? Well, they have lots of choices to make. It starts with what's their career path?
[16:18] SPEAKER_00: Do they want to go on their own and be an entrepreneur? Most lawyers, I think,
[16:24] SPEAKER_00: don't really have an entrepreneurial side to them. Most of them want to go and work for somebody
[16:29] SPEAKER_00: else, usually a big firm and earn an income. So, a large part of it is, what do you want? You know,
[16:35] SPEAKER_00: it's an interesting thing because I was having this discussion with another senior family lawyer
[16:39] SPEAKER_00: last week and he tells me he has all these people that come through his office because he does a
[16:45] SPEAKER_00: lot of mediations that have incredible sums of money, very, very wealthy people. And he said,
[16:51] SPEAKER_00: you know, they've done so much better than us than I said to him, you know what? You're wrong
[16:55] SPEAKER_00: about that because at the end of the day, we took a more conservative path. Even if you are
[17:00] SPEAKER_00: entrepreneurial for a lawyer, you're still a lawyer. You're never going to be a billionaire practicing
[17:06] SPEAKER_00: law. And I often like to ask when I have an entrepreneurial client a question and it really to me
[17:12] SPEAKER_00: differentiates the difference between the lawyer mindset and the business person.
[17:17] SPEAKER_00: And the question is, I'll say to somebody who is in their 50s or 60s who has decent net worth.
[17:24] SPEAKER_00: Would you roll the dice 50-50? Everything you have and you have to start over, but if you succeed,
[17:29] SPEAKER_00: you're a billionaire. And every person who is a business person type with that entrepreneurial
[17:38] SPEAKER_00: viewpoint of the world has always said to me absolutely and they look at me like I'm crazy for
[17:43] SPEAKER_00: even thinking it's a question. But if you ask lawyers because I've asked lawyers who are self-employed
[17:49] SPEAKER_00: like me and decent practices, the same question who once they hit their 50s, every one of them has
[17:54] SPEAKER_00: had the same answer. No way we're happy with our life. And to me, that's a big part of what the
[18:01] SPEAKER_00: difference is between somebody who is the entrepreneur who's going to get to a completely different level
[18:08] SPEAKER_00: of net worth and a lawyer. A lawyer is much easier to get to a certain place, but by the same token,
[18:14] SPEAKER_00: we're not going to get to that extreme place.
[18:17] SPEAKER_01: Okay.
[18:21] SPEAKER_02: Thinking of advice and mentorship, what's the best piece of advice that you've had
[18:29] SPEAKER_02: that you use, that's there all the time, if you like?
[18:35] SPEAKER_00: Well, when I was an article, I felt the pressure of having a number of files and court
[18:40] SPEAKER_00: appearances that I had to get the lawyers ready for. And my articleing principle said to me,
[18:44] SPEAKER_00: Andrew, you can only do one thing at a time. Focus on the one thing, get it done, move to the next,
[18:51] SPEAKER_00: get that done. Don't try and do three things at once.
[18:57] SPEAKER_02: Interesting. Let's move on. There's some good stuff there. You forget that legal profession
[19:07] SPEAKER_02: is so can be so entrepreneurial. I think everyone assumes it's different than that.
[19:15] SPEAKER_02: Well, books here come to you reading, listening to whichever.
[19:21] SPEAKER_00: I used to love to read and I don't know, maybe because I'm getting older, my eyes get tired,
[19:27] SPEAKER_00: I don't read as I don't read that much other than I read a lot of newspaper articles.
[19:32] SPEAKER_00: So I have my Apple news. I like to read the National Post, the Globe and Mail, Toronto Star,
[19:36] SPEAKER_00: I read all sorts of records. Telecraft is on there and other articles as well. I like being
[19:44] SPEAKER_00: interested in current events and politics of the day. Are you a morning or a night person?
[19:50] SPEAKER_01: Morning. I'm usually up between four and five. Head to the gym in the morning.
[19:56] SPEAKER_02: Cool. If you had to pick one word to describe yourself, what would it be and why would you choose it?
[20:06] SPEAKER_00: I'd like to say energetic because as I said before, I'm up early and I'm the kind of person I have
[20:13] SPEAKER_00: not set an alarm probably in 20 or 30 years. I get up, wake up, I start my day and I go and I
[20:21] SPEAKER_00: typically will go to bed around 11 o'clock so I don't get a ton of sleep and if you asked my wife,
[20:26] SPEAKER_02: she'd say I'm full of energy. If you weren't doing what you're doing now, what would you be doing
[20:35] SPEAKER_00: instead of it? Honestly, I have no idea. I enjoy what I do. I enjoy the intellectual
[20:45] SPEAKER_00: challenge of what I do and the thought of doing something else, I really don't know what it would be.
[20:54] SPEAKER_02: That's very cool. I see that's not a normal answer. That's a good answer.
[21:00] SPEAKER_00: What's keeping up at night? I think I get all the sleep that I need. Sometimes I wake up,
[21:08] SPEAKER_00: I'm thinking about files, but for the most part, I'm ready to go. I've had enough sleep.
[21:13] SPEAKER_00: Interesting. You know, so I get up, I work out for an hour and a half in the morning and I find
[21:18] SPEAKER_00: that to be a good way to start my day. So somebody coming in to the business,
[21:29] SPEAKER_02: what would you say they have to deal with to be successful today? Because you know,
[21:40] SPEAKER_00: 30 years on, it's not the same thing. It's nowhere to be the same as everything changed
[21:48] SPEAKER_00: for us in 2020 in terms of the way we did business. But in terms of somebody who is coming into
[21:55] SPEAKER_00: my office, what do they need? They need to be hardworking. They have to be dedicated to good
[22:00] SPEAKER_00: client service. They have to be detailed oriented. They have to be a good team player because we have
[22:07] SPEAKER_00: a really good team where we all get along. Most of us come to work in the office. Some of us work
[22:13] SPEAKER_00: remote, but for the most part, we're very good with one another. We have an office baseball team.
[22:18] SPEAKER_00: We all get along. So you need each aspect of that is important. It's not enough to just be,
[22:23] SPEAKER_00: I'm a good lawyer and not want to be part of the team because we all need to pitch in and
[22:28] SPEAKER_00: help out for one another where sometimes we can have a conflict in our schedule where somebody
[22:33] SPEAKER_00: brings an urgent motion against us that we can't get out of and we have to be in two places at
[22:38] SPEAKER_00: once and we need one of our colleagues to pinch it for us. So there are things that are
[22:42] SPEAKER_00: happened that it really helps when everybody works hard and also works together. Wait, well.
[22:50] SPEAKER_02: I'm good stuff in there. I didn't know anything about family law as a business per se.
[22:59] SPEAKER_02: This has been really interesting. Someone is listening, looking at this,
[23:05] SPEAKER_02: and they've got questions. How can they get a whole new view?
[23:10] SPEAKER_00: Well, there's multiple ways. So number one, it can visit our website because that's going to be
[23:14] SPEAKER_00: the easiest thing to remember, separation.ca. That's really easy to remember. If you want to
[23:20] SPEAKER_00: email me, it's Andrew at Feldsteinfamilylaw.com. But as I said, the easiest thing is going to our
[23:26] SPEAKER_00: contact us page on separation.ca and you can send something in. You can phone us at 905-415-1636.
[23:37] SPEAKER_02: Okay. It's really interesting. I love the way you built this. It's very interesting.
[23:49] SPEAKER_02: I want to thank you for coming on to Candace Antwerpner. I really enjoyed meeting you.
[23:54] SPEAKER_00: My pleasure. Thank you for having me.
[23:56] SPEAKER_02: Well, that was really interesting. I didn't know much about family law.
[24:00] SPEAKER_02: I'm just built a heck of a practice based on hard work, legal prowess, and thoughtful marketing.
[24:07] SPEAKER_02: I guess business is business, whether it's family law or FinTech. Focus and hard work of the core
[24:14] SPEAKER_02: components. I'm Phil Bliss. Don't forget to subscribe to our newsletter on our website.
[24:20] SPEAKER_02: And subscribe on our YouTube channel or any of our major podcast channels.
[24:25] SPEAKER_02: Thanks for listening to Candace Antwerpner. We meet the entrepreneurs that drive Canada's economy.
[24:31] SPEAKER_02: See you soon.