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TRANSCRIPTION WITH SPEAKERS
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[00:00] SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Canada's Entrepreneur, where we talk to the entrepreneurs who are making it happen across
[00:06] SPEAKER_01: Canada and deliver the news, trends, knowledge and opinions from entrepreneurs and business
[00:13] SPEAKER_01: influences across the country. So David, welcome to Canada's Entrepreneur. In the intro, I didn't
[00:22] SPEAKER_01: point out that you and I have known each other for way too many decades, but I think it would be
[00:30] SPEAKER_01: really interesting just to let people know your background and how you moved into under the radar.
[00:43] SPEAKER_01: That would be, you've always been a little bit under the radar, but what got you into the musician side of it?
[00:50] SPEAKER_00: Well, thanks very much Phil for this opportunity, delighted to be on with you, and I used to see you again
[00:58] SPEAKER_00: as a very good example of a Canadian entrepreneur. My background is journalism, graduate journalism
[01:08] SPEAKER_00: Carlton University, undergraduate, political science, sociology economics, university of what
[01:14] SPEAKER_00: was University of Alberta at Calgary, subsequently became University of Calgary. Move to Ottawa did
[01:21] SPEAKER_00: some freelance journalism work, worked for a period with the Canadian Film Institute as a documentary
[01:30] SPEAKER_00: film reviewer, and anyway, fast forward one day I saw this ad in the Globe and Mail report on
[01:37] SPEAKER_00: business and my goodness. It was back in the day when there were tons of box ads and that sort of
[01:44] SPEAKER_00: kept the Globe and Mail very much afloat. Anyway, it was summer of 1968, it was worth
[01:52] SPEAKER_00: a resume, I think stamps were five cents back then, as we are concerned these days.
[01:58] SPEAKER_00: I'm going to step. Yeah, with the help, well I'm concerned with the help that Canada
[02:02] SPEAKER_00: imposed, I'd like to see them succeed somehow and get everybody on side. Anyway, that being the case,
[02:09] SPEAKER_00: in November I took a phone call and it turned out to be Corporate Communications Director of IBM
[02:15] SPEAKER_00: Canada. I fell over in my chair, again it was a box number ad, there was no hint of any of the
[02:21] SPEAKER_00: words of the day, you know, like EDP, you'll remember that word. There was no tech wording in the ad.
[02:32] SPEAKER_00: Anyway, but it was an enticing ad, it could have been anybody. He came to Ottawa, we had an interview,
[02:37] SPEAKER_00: he said, how'd you like to come to Toronto for an interview to meet my boss and his boss and so on
[02:43] SPEAKER_00: and basically January of 1969, I was on board in the Corporate Communications Department of IBM Canada
[02:51] SPEAKER_00: and they deliberately were not looking for a technology person. It really was, you know, as we're
[02:58] SPEAKER_00: living this world of AI and chat, GBT, you know, what goes around comes around and at that point,
[03:07] SPEAKER_00: computers were going to take everybody's job. That was what was going on in the marketplace. IBM's
[03:14] SPEAKER_00: mantra was, you know, you're not, one isn't going to be replaced by computers, but in fact,
[03:19] SPEAKER_00: you're going to be displaced so you better learn this stuff, get on the train before the train leaves
[03:24] SPEAKER_00: the station. So one of one of my many assignments was writing articles, customer success stories,
[03:34] SPEAKER_00: not puff pieces, but factual pieces in the idiom of various industries from from meat packing to
[03:40] SPEAKER_00: or the oil patch from government to to finance and so on and so forth. Spent a few years at IBM
[03:48] SPEAKER_00: Canada, subsequently wanted to work in an ad agency and was hired by Canadian iconic ad person,
[03:56] SPEAKER_00: Jerry Goodes, who since passed away and he had a public relations division as agency that was
[04:02] SPEAKER_00: bleeding red ink. I figured, wow, what an opportunity, you know, to succeed. And lucky to spend
[04:12] SPEAKER_00: a couple of years there working on wonderful campaigns from speedier as somebody to the
[04:17] SPEAKER_00: grab a hush puppy was just and doing the PR for all of that stuff. Subsequently, on the seventh
[04:24] SPEAKER_00: of May, 52 years ago, I incorporated a company called the Communications Group Inc, which we
[04:31] SPEAKER_00: subsequently rebranded over the years to TCGPR and 52 years of history, lots of high-tech clients,
[04:40] SPEAKER_00: lots of real estate clients, professional services, food service hospitality and so on.
[04:46] SPEAKER_00: And that's sort of the groundwork up until roughly the beginning of COVID. And we still have
[04:55] SPEAKER_00: clients, we're still we're still in those arenas in terms of the world of work, but one day
[05:02] SPEAKER_00: took a call from a fellow who was looking to start a Jewish community site and said,
[05:15] SPEAKER_00: we'd like you to be one of our writers, but we're not going to solicit advertising,
[05:19] SPEAKER_00: we're not going to be paying anybody, it'll be a work of love. And I thought, interesting. So I
[05:26] SPEAKER_00: said, would I have a free hand in what I want to write? And he said, sure. So I came back to him and
[05:31] SPEAKER_00: said, you know, I think there are tons of musicians who've kind of fallen out of site need to be
[05:41] SPEAKER_00: remembered. There are entries in the Canadian Encyclopedia, but so many of them are one or two
[05:47] SPEAKER_00: paragraphs. And I think what I'd like to do is write from a historic, not a music critique
[05:53] SPEAKER_00: perspective, the stories of these musicians. And I will lay out an approach that basically will say
[06:02] SPEAKER_00: they needed to be Canadian citizens, not necessarily born in Canada, Jewish obviously,
[06:11] SPEAKER_00: old genders, all genres. It could be individuals, it could be groups,
[06:18] SPEAKER_00: alive, dead, and need to have a national kind of like the Globe and Mail. You know, we need to have
[06:26] SPEAKER_00: people who are living in markets under the Toronto and Montreal, major cities. And by the time I had written
[06:35] SPEAKER_00: 15, which was now into the beginning of 2023, 15, 16, 17, I guess, somebody said, David, this is a book
[06:48] SPEAKER_00: and what would you call it? And I said, well, if it's a book, the notion of under the radar
[06:55] SPEAKER_00: is the perspective from where I am coming from. And this is not, and I'm going to, and the
[07:03] SPEAKER_00: artists that I've selected, it's not to put anyone down as being invisible, but the reality is
[07:12] SPEAKER_00: so many of these artists have been forgotten, many alive, still alive. And I like them to be
[07:20] SPEAKER_00: remembered. So that became the Genesis of Book One. And to date, there are three volumes. And
[07:30] SPEAKER_01: two more on the way. It's very, very interesting. And I think, you know, so, I mean, so this is really
[07:41] SPEAKER_01: this came out of COVID, if you like. It's evolved. I mean, how many editions do you have now?
[07:52] SPEAKER_00: Well, there are three that are published. And they're all titled essentially musicians under the
[07:57] SPEAKER_00: radar. The first book has 30 and lie 30. As we both know, in our real world's work, 30 is the
[08:10] SPEAKER_00: number that signifies the end of the story, when whether it's print online broadcast, what have you,
[08:16] SPEAKER_00: it's signed off numerically or in Roman numerals. Well, for me, 30, that number became the beginning,
[08:23] SPEAKER_00: the beginning of a hobby, if you will. The second book, 36 in the Jewish religion, 36 is an important
[08:32] SPEAKER_00: number. It means double life. And here I was on the second book. So I was doubly engaged. And then
[08:42] SPEAKER_00: I thought, well, the third book, I'm going to sort of increase numbers by six. And I sort of,
[08:49] SPEAKER_00: I didn't stumble on the number 42 per se because I can count. But when I did some research, I found
[08:55] SPEAKER_00: out that in both Judaism and Christianity, the number 42 has some very significant meaning.
[09:04] SPEAKER_00: The next book actually, I'm going to go backwards. And at the end of this month, I hope to have
[09:11] SPEAKER_00: a compendium of the jazz musicians. In total, I've done 148 chapters, i.e. 140 musicians.
[09:22] SPEAKER_00: And again, with all of that criteria. But I've had many, many people say, would you consider
[09:31] SPEAKER_00: a book by genre? And so for the heck of it, I sort of did account. I hadn't thought of it. I did
[09:39] SPEAKER_00: account. And I discovered in the 108, there are 18 jazz musicians from names you might know,
[09:46] SPEAKER_00: like Mo Kaufman, to names you might not know, like Ori Dagan. You have to read the books to get that.
[09:55] SPEAKER_00: But again, it's a reprint, if you will. But I think it's kind of a neat thing. And again,
[10:03] SPEAKER_01: the number 18 goes back to life. So obviously, I think probably lots of people have said to you,
[10:11] SPEAKER_01: so you know, you've done what? 30, 60, over 100, let's say, chapters on musicians,
[10:22] SPEAKER_01: produce musicians. What, who would be your top five?
[10:30] SPEAKER_01: Well, again, it depends. It's terrible to say top five. But the five that you found really interesting.
[10:38] SPEAKER_00: Well, let me sort of come through the back door on that one. I found myself, I mean,
[10:51] SPEAKER_00: sorts of people of all ethnic backgrounds, of all religious backgrounds. You know, again,
[10:57] SPEAKER_00: it's it comes from people who are interested in history, interested in music. And so,
[11:03] SPEAKER_00: and my question would be, okay, Fobles, can you name three to five Canadian Jewish musicians?
[11:09] SPEAKER_00: And that would be the same question I'd ask anyone. And almost invariably, the names that come
[11:16] SPEAKER_00: up are Leonard Cohen, of course, Getty Lee, the guitarist, bassist, chorus, and Drake.
[11:25] SPEAKER_00: Drake's mother is Jewish. And that qualifies. And then there's this pregnant pause.
[11:31] SPEAKER_00: Once in a while, I'd get Robbie Robertson into the band, but not a heck of a lot more.
[11:38] SPEAKER_00: And again, what I've also learned, and that sort of reinforces the book of jazz musicians
[11:46] SPEAKER_00: just picking one genre. I may do subsequent ones on rock and so on and so forth, but
[11:51] SPEAKER_00: but what continually happens in terms of people's reactions is I didn't know, I didn't know Mark Jordan
[12:02] SPEAKER_00: was Jewish or I didn't know Mark Jordan was Canadian. Didn't he write all those tunes for Rod Stewart,
[12:09] SPEAKER_00: you know, rhythm of the rain and so on and so forth. I didn't know Zalianovsky was the guitarist
[12:17] SPEAKER_00: love and spoonful. And he was deported. He and one of his bandmates was deported from the United
[12:23] SPEAKER_00: States for substance abuse many years ago. And I didn't know he came to Kingston, Ontario,
[12:31] SPEAKER_00: and his daughter, he opened a restaurant called Shea Piggy. It's a fun place to go to if you're
[12:36] SPEAKER_00: ever in Kingston. But, but you know, there's sort of an example. Yesterday, I stumbled on a
[12:45] SPEAKER_00: pedal steel guitarist who was born in 1938, died in 2021. Born in Montreal, he was hot stuff
[12:55] SPEAKER_00: in Nashville. He moved to Nashville as in his mid-20s, early 30s and played with, you know,
[13:03] SPEAKER_00: the web pierces and the Jimmy Rogers and all that stuff. So I keep and this is what kind of fuels my
[13:11] SPEAKER_00: engine. I didn't know that reaction from all kinds of people and people go, she, Maureen Forster,
[13:19] SPEAKER_00: he wrote about Maureen Forster, operatic control till she's Jewish. Well, she had converted, married
[13:26] SPEAKER_00: a musician. She became more Jewish than him in her in her conversion. It was her choice,
[13:33] SPEAKER_00: wasn't necessarily his. But those keep coming up. So back to, you know, who are the top names?
[13:41] SPEAKER_00: Well, it depends on the genre. There's a gal in I first book her name is Eric Voodman. She is
[13:48] SPEAKER_00: ranked as the 50th most prominent harpist in the world. He got me to thinking when I discovered that
[13:57] SPEAKER_00: the other 49 must be brilliant because she's over the top. She's so good. Like, you know, who does
[14:03] SPEAKER_00: these rankings? So I asked her if, you know, I mentioned because she'd asked me, who are some of the
[14:11] SPEAKER_00: other artists in the book that I'm in? And I mentioned two or three names, musicians of other genres.
[14:17] SPEAKER_00: And I, and she wasn't really aware of them. I think a lot of musicians, you know, you stay in your own
[14:23] SPEAKER_00: lane, you're a classical musician, you do folk music, you do rock. I mean, here's a guy, the
[14:30] SPEAKER_00: bass guitarist is Steppenwolf. Name is Nick St. Nicholas. People would say to me, David, that's not
[14:36] SPEAKER_00: a Jewish name. He said, well, you know, so many musicians and so many people in the media over the years
[14:42] SPEAKER_00: took pseudonyms. They took stage names. And his name was Nicholas Kastinbaum. He was a
[14:50] SPEAKER_00: child of Holocaust survivors, came to Toronto, lived in the west end of the city, self-carped
[14:56] SPEAKER_00: to play guitar, hooked up with a few bands. Ultimately, he becomes the bass guitarist to Steppenwolf.
[15:02] SPEAKER_01: Who knew? Who knew? So, I'm one of the musicians as a result of this.
[15:12] SPEAKER_01: Have you met, interviewed, you know, had, you know, had their feedback? And what have you got sort of,
[15:21] SPEAKER_01: can you give people some gems from that, if you like? Well, one of the most satisfying
[15:31] SPEAKER_00: satisfying responses is, it's come from families of musicians who have died.
[15:40] SPEAKER_00: There's, where people have said, you know, you've helped create a family legacy for our family.
[15:50] SPEAKER_00: There was a wonderful jazz musician by the name of Bernie Pilch. Bernie passed away a number of
[15:56] SPEAKER_00: years ago. And I mean, he was, he was an in-demand horn player in musician rather in Toronto.
[16:03] SPEAKER_00: And he had, in his wife, had three children, each musician, Rob David and Susan.
[16:13] SPEAKER_00: And there, the three of them are over the moon because their dad, who was known,
[16:22] SPEAKER_00: will not be forgotten in part because of this chapter. And if anybody listens to any of his music,
[16:30] SPEAKER_00: you know, same sort of thing. Sylvia Murphy, she was, she was on, she was a songstress,
[16:39] SPEAKER_00: big on CBC in the 50s and the 60s. Same kind of reaction. Oscar Marlitz,
[16:48] SPEAKER_00: classical music composer, his daughter had sent me a text message and said, we are ever so thankful
[16:55] SPEAKER_00: that you're not letting my dad's memory disappear. Well, I didn't set about Phil to do that.
[17:04] SPEAKER_00: It's just become a very fulfilling and happy byproduct of the result of my research and work.
[17:12] SPEAKER_00: No, you might. And letting them just maybe add what, what, when a book comes out, the musicians
[17:19] SPEAKER_00: who are alive and if they're in the greater Toronto area, I try to get together with them for
[17:24] SPEAKER_00: a cup of coffee and kind of a rehash and, and, and sign, give them a book, sign the book. And,
[17:31] SPEAKER_00: I've made a lot of new friends as a result. And I see new friends basically because I've probably
[17:40] SPEAKER_00: gleaned more about them and their families or their, their, their parents or, you know, whoever it was
[17:47] SPEAKER_00: in their family, then I did on the first go around as I was preparing the material. So I've,
[17:54] SPEAKER_00: I've been able to build up connection and, and it's a very, the new world of music in, in its lanes,
[18:03] SPEAKER_00: is a very, very tight community. You know, every guitarist knows every other guitarist,
[18:07] SPEAKER_00: every horn player knows every other horn player. And others know others, but it's, it's, it's,
[18:14] SPEAKER_01: it's really just a lot of fun. So, I, that's why I'm just as curious in terms of
[18:22] SPEAKER_01: the background. So, Stephen Page or Robbie Robinson or whatever, did you get, you, have you
[18:29] SPEAKER_01: been able to meet them? Well, Robbie Robertson has passed away. He's passed, yes,
[18:34] SPEAKER_00: yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, as an example, but yeah, those that I've not, you know, in, in, in so many
[18:39] SPEAKER_00: cases, my interview to be over the phone because there are a lot of musicians in Nashville.
[18:46] SPEAKER_00: There's a wonderful guy who's really an advocate for the music industry and, and his name is Eddie
[18:53] SPEAKER_00: Schwartz. And he's a producer, he's a guitarist, he's a player originally from Toronto, moved to,
[19:00] SPEAKER_00: moved to Nashville. And he wrote a lot of stuff, but probably his most notable hit was for
[19:08] SPEAKER_00: Pat Benatar hit me with your best shot. A very close friend of Eddie Schwartz is a guy called Ben
[19:15] SPEAKER_00: Mink. Maybe a name you haven't heard of. Ben Mink has basically co-written almost everything that
[19:22] SPEAKER_00: Katie Lang has reported. Constan Graving, you know, you'll know that too, among others. And so,
[19:29] SPEAKER_00: I've been able, if, if Ben comes to Toronto, we find a way to grab a cup of coffee.
[19:35] SPEAKER_00: You know, it's that, it's that sort of thing or, or we'll, we'll send each other a text or there'll
[19:40] SPEAKER_00: be something maybe in LinkedIn or email. Somehow the, the messaging and the contact continues. And,
[19:52] SPEAKER_00: and you know, and I'm not star struck by any of this. Let me tell you because some of these
[19:57] SPEAKER_00: musicians are absolutely huge stars. And, and, you know, my concern too with the phrase under the
[20:04] SPEAKER_00: radar, I had thought on various occasions, will musician X be upset that I am hugging them as
[20:14] SPEAKER_00: under the radar? Because they all have egos, we all have egos, but they have egos and they all
[20:20] SPEAKER_00: think they're on top of the world. And here's a good example. Danny Marx, Danny Marx, you may know
[20:26] SPEAKER_00: today is, is the voice of blues and jazz on jazz FN 91 that that's in Toronto and goes world
[20:33] SPEAKER_00: life. Danny was one of the co-founders of a rock group called Edward Bear. And you might remember the
[20:39] SPEAKER_00: tune, you, me and Mexico, among others. Danny, it was, it was the first thing that came out of his
[20:47] SPEAKER_00: mouth as I was trying to cobble together his chapter. And he said, David, you know, at 19, I was a
[20:54] SPEAKER_00: rock star at 21. I was a has been. And that's the path that so many musicians find themselves on
[21:05] SPEAKER_00: some get out of it all together. There's a wonderful jazz pianist, Ron Davis. He's a lawyer in
[21:12] SPEAKER_00: Toronto with Folkler Rubinoff. His parents insisted he go to university and work to get a degree
[21:23] SPEAKER_00: because they weren't convinced that you could make a living as a musician. Well, we touched,
[21:31] SPEAKER_00: touched on the pandemic earlier and and right about that time, Ron who was working part time
[21:38] SPEAKER_00: with Folkler's decided he was going to pack in his jazz music career because all of his bookings
[21:46] SPEAKER_00: went off the door and and literally, you know, the future didn't look very bright. Family defeat,
[21:53] SPEAKER_00: things to do, bills to pay. He is happy as a lawyer. And of course, I've asked the question and it's
[22:01] SPEAKER_00: also in the chapter was the way I concluded the piece, you know, are you ever going to come back?
[22:07] SPEAKER_00: And you know, what's what's the standard answer for those of us who like to come back and do
[22:11] SPEAKER_00: different things? Never say never. And that's what Ron Davis said to me. There's really kind of
[22:18] SPEAKER_01: theme about them in terms of similarities across the the personas that you've covered, if you'd like.
[22:29] SPEAKER_00: That's a good question, Phil. I would say their belief in Judaism, some are very, very religious
[22:38] SPEAKER_00: and many are not and a standard sounds like ordinary. But the basic question that I ask everyone is
[22:47] SPEAKER_00: how has your religious beliefs impacted the creativity of the music that you
[22:56] SPEAKER_00: write, sing, play, what have you? And as I say, there are some who are very much fueled by
[23:09] SPEAKER_00: their religious beliefs, their upbringing as children. There's a fellow for what will be volume five,
[23:16] SPEAKER_00: there's a punk rocker whose name is David Quinton, his name actually is David Alexander Steinberg.
[23:26] SPEAKER_00: And he didn't want, he didn't have 17 into his mid 20s, didn't use the Steinberg name because he
[23:34] SPEAKER_00: was looking for a cool sounding rock and roll name and again, a punk rocker. But his dad, his dad
[23:43] SPEAKER_00: is an internationally known, can'torial music composer, recognized all over the world. So
[23:52] SPEAKER_00: here's a young man who came from music, music when he left the womb, his mother's womb, music was
[24:01] SPEAKER_00: part of the package, but he became a punk rocker. And today he's an entertainment lawyer with
[24:08] SPEAKER_01: which music, I guess entertainment lawyer is kind of music as well. Well, well, yeah, and he
[24:15] SPEAKER_00: represents a number of, a number of players. But again, music was so much part of his life,
[24:20] SPEAKER_00: but the fact that his dad at one end was writing and composing religious music and the son on the
[24:27] SPEAKER_01: other end goes out and becomes a punk rocker. And again, I was thinking of when this is kind of
[24:34] SPEAKER_01: entrepreneurial after all. And at least independent musicians are effectively entrepreneurs. I mean,
[24:43] SPEAKER_01: they're selling their services or their lyrics or whatever to make a living.
[24:53] SPEAKER_01: Is that kind of entrepreneurial approach kind of obvious to you when you've interviewed
[25:01] SPEAKER_00: Fuehland? Well, you know, there's no question being a musician and looking for gigs
[25:12] SPEAKER_00: is an ongoing process. It's like, you know, you're always selling yourself. The curious thing is
[25:19] SPEAKER_00: that so many of them, and here we are into back into technology, they all have CDs that are gathering
[25:27] SPEAKER_00: dust on shelves because there aren't, you know, where do you get a CD player these days? And in the
[25:33] SPEAKER_00: new model vehicles, you know, there's no longer a CD player. But so so they're always out hustling,
[25:39] SPEAKER_00: they're always looking for work. But so many of them have other jobs because that's what pays the
[25:48] SPEAKER_00: bills. So it's been a versatile. Well, well, yeah, I mean, I should lucky enough to make it
[25:57] SPEAKER_00: your life kind of thing. Well, and that's sort of been, I guess, part of the driver. I mean,
[26:03] SPEAKER_00: for me, I can't tell you how many times over the years I'd heard, David, you know, your firm
[26:13] SPEAKER_00: just worked with so many wonderful, wonderful organizations. I think you should write a book.
[26:18] SPEAKER_00: So I always thought there was a public relations obviously success and sometimes not so successful
[26:26] SPEAKER_00: stories ready to be written. But this this switch to music is kind of a natural one because my
[26:35] SPEAKER_00: dad was an amateur musician. His youngest brother was a full-time clarinet saxophoneist with
[26:43] SPEAKER_00: at the O'Keefe Center for you, 26 years, which is a very, very long tenure. Our older son in Brooklyn
[26:52] SPEAKER_00: is a full-time jazz percussion, afro-cuban musician. He also teaches. He also teaches, and that helps
[27:02] SPEAKER_00: and pays you the bills as well. And that's just the nature of where it's going. But you see, at the
[27:11] SPEAKER_00: end of the day, there's another commonality. And we just I touched on the Judaism issue. But
[27:19] SPEAKER_00: every one of the musicians in the books are there all from immigrant families. And when immigrants
[27:29] SPEAKER_00: come to Canada and have come to Canada over the years, the parents are looking for a better life
[27:38] SPEAKER_00: for themselves, for their kids. They want them to be better educated. So the push to higher education
[27:45] SPEAKER_00: is significant as is learning a music instrument, whether for personal joy or maybe to become a
[27:53] SPEAKER_00: professional musician. And it doesn't matter what the ethnic background is of the individual.
[28:01] SPEAKER_00: That pattern has been the pattern for years. And if you will, the complexions, if you pick the
[28:09] SPEAKER_00: Toronto Symphony Orchestra, and I don't mean this in a negative way, but if you look at the
[28:14] SPEAKER_00: the makeup, the complexion of the orchestra, the players have changed. It's gone maybe from
[28:22] SPEAKER_00: one ethnic group to two or three. And to all of a sudden, it's a united nation of individuals.
[28:31] SPEAKER_01: A very talented people. So, again, staying on the entrepreneurial side, I mean, the people that you met
[28:49] SPEAKER_00: were they happy because of their music? Absolutely. Oh, yes. Oh, yeah. Yeah. There's a, the people
[29:01] SPEAKER_00: who become professional musicians all subscribe to the word passion. There is an absolute passion
[29:08] SPEAKER_00: to fill for what they do. And whether they're a harpist or they play a vibraphone or they're a drummer
[29:14] SPEAKER_00: or they're a horn player or a singer or they just want to do composition. They really tend to
[29:22] SPEAKER_00: pick their lane. And you know, like jazz is going to be my thing or folk music is going to be my thing.
[29:30] SPEAKER_00: You know, there's a in my in the first book under the radar, 30 notable Canadian musicians.
[29:38] SPEAKER_00: There's a group called the travelers, the Canadian travelers. And you'll maybe remember them from
[29:43] SPEAKER_00: that tune. This land is your land. Yeah. The group actually was started by a fellow, I mean,
[29:50] SPEAKER_00: the Jerry Gray, who was ultimately went on to become a dentist. And he partnered with a fellow
[29:56] SPEAKER_00: by name Jerry Goodis, who went on to run an ad agency and for whom I worked. Fast forward all
[30:03] SPEAKER_00: these years. Jerry Goodis had told me stories about the early days. But Jerry Gray's mother,
[30:09] SPEAKER_00: you know, was really quite upset when he decided after he got his dentistry degree that he was
[30:18] SPEAKER_00: probably not going to be practicing dentistry. Why? Because he'd started his group. And with connections
[30:27] SPEAKER_00: to Pete Seager and the Weavers and all of those folkies in the United States, who were being targeted
[30:35] SPEAKER_00: by Senator McCarthy in the 50s and the 60s, you know, they were blacklisted. And Pete Seager
[30:42] SPEAKER_00: said to Jerry Gray at an event at a summer camp north of Toronto. I'm giving you two gifts.
[30:52] SPEAKER_00: I'm giving you a banjo that I've been playing for a long time. And you're such a talented fellow.
[30:58] SPEAKER_00: I'm giving you a song that we can no longer sing in America. Because there is,
[31:04] SPEAKER_00: our freedom is being challenged. Kind of like what's sort of happening a little bit today.
[31:10] SPEAKER_00: And he said, none of us can sing this land as your land if you will, the American version. So
[31:16] SPEAKER_00: Canadianize it, make it your own, and good luck, and God bless. And that's exactly what happened.
[31:23] SPEAKER_01: Interesting stories. I'm sure it's been a fun time,
[31:28] SPEAKER_01: interviewing all these people and it's like in a way, sort of like what I do is interview
[31:34] SPEAKER_01: entrepreneurs and hear their stories and their experiences. It's extremely rewarding and interesting.
[31:43] SPEAKER_01: It makes you get a lot of knowledge. David, just before we call it, can you give everybody
[31:55] SPEAKER_01: the sort of the names of the editions that are out and where they can get them?
[32:02] SPEAKER_00: Well, the easiest way to get them is from Amazon. And there are currently three active titles,
[32:10] SPEAKER_00: and there will be two more. The first one is under the radar, 30 notable Canadian Jewish musicians.
[32:18] SPEAKER_00: The second book is musicians under the radar, 36 notable Canadian Jewish performers.
[32:27] SPEAKER_00: And the third book is also titled musicians under the radar 42 notable Canadian musicians.
[32:35] SPEAKER_00: Their soft cover, easy reading, available in print, ebooks, Kindle, I guess, specifically if people
[32:44] SPEAKER_00: are still using Kindle. And we have a website under the radar book.com.
[32:51] SPEAKER_00: If one was to send me a message at under the radar book.com, I could find a way to get a copy
[32:59] SPEAKER_00: into someone's hands. And it's the wheels just keep on turning.
[33:08] SPEAKER_01: David, great seeing you again. Thanks for coming on. I'm kind of as entrepreneur.
[33:13] SPEAKER_01: It's a little different, but it's definitely entrepreneurship. So that's really great.
[33:18] SPEAKER_00: Well, there you go. I still, I'm still keeping my day job.
[33:24] SPEAKER_01: Well, I'm having fun with my hobby. Great to see you.
[33:29] SPEAKER_00: Thanks for your time, Phil, and thanks for the opportunity. Be well.
[33:35] SPEAKER_01: Well, that was really interesting. You know, we don't think of musicians as entrepreneurs,
[33:38] SPEAKER_01: but of course they are. They take risks. They're passionate, as David said.
[33:48] SPEAKER_01: Fantastic, interesting thing. And of course, David's an entrepreneur and with the passion for
[33:54] SPEAKER_01: music and communications. Anyway, thanks for listening, viewing. Don't forget to subscribe to
[34:01] SPEAKER_01: our newsletter on our website or subscribe our YouTube as well or any of the major podcast
[34:08] SPEAKER_01: channels. Once again, thanks for listening to Canada's Entrepreneur, where you meet the entrepreneurs
[34:14] SPEAKER_01: that drive Canada's economy. See you later. We talk to the entrepreneurs who are making it happen
[34:21] SPEAKER_01: across Canada and deliver the news, trends, knowledge and opinions from entrepreneurs and business
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