============================================================
TRANSCRIPTION WITH SPEAKERS
============================================================
[00:00] SPEAKER_00: It's Calgary's podcast on the Canada's podcast network.
[00:15] SPEAKER_01: Hello, this is Mario Tonoghusi coming to you today with Calgary's podcast, a member
[00:20] SPEAKER_01: of Canada's podcast network, where we talk to the entrepreneurs who are making it happen
[00:25] SPEAKER_01: in Calgary, Alberta. So you can listen, discover and engage. Today's guest is Terry Sadoric,
[00:33] SPEAKER_01: who is CEO of K.R. Dex. I got it right, didn't I? Thanks for joining us today, Terry,
[00:41] SPEAKER_01: and being here for our listeners. Tell me first of all a little bit about the company,
[00:47] SPEAKER_00: its history, and what it does. Sure, you bet. Well, Kyrdix was formerly founded in 2009.
[00:55] SPEAKER_00: We're a software platform that allows communities to come together that have obviously a common
[01:02] SPEAKER_00: interest. So whether that be brand focused, employee focused or other, it's a situation
[01:08] SPEAKER_00: where online individuals can come together, participate in various programming, various
[01:13] SPEAKER_00: activities, and subsequently learn and engage with each other. How did you get involved?
[01:22] SPEAKER_00: Well, in probably about 2013, the company had reached a stage where they had attracted some
[01:30] SPEAKER_00: external funding from Yale Town Partners, and I'm an association with the Yale Town, and was
[01:37] SPEAKER_00: introduced to the opportunity and the founder, Shelley Kipers, and got involved with the organization,
[01:42] SPEAKER_00: as it kind of took its next step in terms of formalization and more commercial focus.
[01:47] SPEAKER_01: What has been the business like these days for you considering what's happening out there in
[01:54] SPEAKER_00: the Calgary economy? As an early stage organization, we've certainly had our challenges. We are directly
[02:02] SPEAKER_00: affected by the economy here in Calgary. Most of our customers are outside of the region. In fact,
[02:08] SPEAKER_00: we provide the community software to a global audience, but at the same time when we're looking to
[02:15] SPEAKER_00: build an organization, we access the capital, the access to people, the current economic
[02:20] SPEAKER_00: challenges here in Calgary have both a challenges, but also opportunity. So I would say it really depends
[02:26] SPEAKER_00: on what attributes you're looking for us, to what impact we've had. What's been you with the company
[02:32] SPEAKER_00: recently? Well, we've been forced into really focusing in terms of both our business model
[02:39] SPEAKER_00: and our target audience. As mentioned before, one of the things that we provide is an ability for a
[02:45] SPEAKER_00: brand to basically bring their brand fans into an online platform to basically interact with
[02:52] SPEAKER_00: each other and as a result learn and understand what's important to that brand base. And so,
[02:58] SPEAKER_00: things that have challenged us is just getting the individuals to commit to moving to that kind of
[03:04] SPEAKER_00: platform support, how it fits in terms of their internal budgeting, where it fits relative to market
[03:10] SPEAKER_00: resource versus social. So just understanding as the enterprise evolves, where votes in the
[03:16] SPEAKER_00: organization, it's appropriate to land. What's your vision for the company as you go forward?
[03:22] SPEAKER_00: Well, we're seeing a lot of interest. I mean, at the end of the day, there's a number of things
[03:26] SPEAKER_00: that are contributing to, I think, a change in the environment. Number one is technology.
[03:31] SPEAKER_00: Technology is having such a big impact across the board. And not only with the organization and
[03:37] SPEAKER_00: the enterprise, but also with the end users in today's world, smartphones allow individuals to
[03:43] SPEAKER_00: interact directly inside of social environments, inside of groups. And ultimately, they're looking
[03:49] SPEAKER_00: for means of which to interact with the brand. So the brands that are understanding that there's
[03:54] SPEAKER_00: an opportunity actually to, in essence, give social a purpose, are engaging with these brand fans
[03:59] SPEAKER_00: and subsequently getting them involved in helping them understand where the product should go,
[04:04] SPEAKER_00: where the business model should go. At the same time, the individuals are looking for the organizations
[04:10] SPEAKER_00: that are paying attention to that and wanting the individuals, sorry, wanting the brands to align
[04:18] SPEAKER_00: with them. So it's a bit of a combination of things. So the environment has changed substantially.
[04:22] SPEAKER_01: When you look at doing business in Calgary, what are the benefits, I guess, of being a business
[04:30] SPEAKER_00: in Calgary these days? Well, first of all, that's a sort of a loaded question.
[04:38] SPEAKER_00: There are definitely benefits. I mean, obviously, the city offers a lot of benefits and ultimately
[04:45] SPEAKER_00: a balanced situation when trying to attract individuals into an organization. So I'll say things that
[04:50] SPEAKER_00: in essence, outside of the work environment. At the same time, I mean, some of the challenge that
[04:55] SPEAKER_00: we've seen economically as well as the different things that have happened recently relative to
[05:01] SPEAKER_00: promoting investments into technologies is not helped us at all or anybody in the technology space
[05:06] SPEAKER_00: for that matter. So it's a bit of a two-inch sword. So there's benefits in terms of lifestyle,
[05:13] SPEAKER_00: great people, a very, very collaborative community, but on the other side, there are other elements
[05:18] SPEAKER_00: in terms of building a business that are important, like access to capital. In the situation where
[05:23] SPEAKER_00: the current environment here was looking for diversification, trying to get money out of energy
[05:28] SPEAKER_00: and into technology, government stepped in and basically taken away a lot of programs that
[05:33] SPEAKER_00: were helping to initiate that process. It was early days, but at the same time, we definitely
[05:37] SPEAKER_00: were seeing a shift where people were willing to invest because there were credits available.
[05:41] SPEAKER_00: And so just started the process of starting to distribute that capital in a different way.
[05:45] SPEAKER_00: That's unfortunately gone away, or at least there's some uncertainty right now that we're
[05:49] SPEAKER_00: out of the way and see over the long term how that will impact us. What would you say the biggest
[05:54] SPEAKER_01: challenge is that you've faced as a company in the last few years? There's been a couple.
[06:01] SPEAKER_00: We provide a solution globally. So obviously for us, it's a first and foremost capital,
[06:07] SPEAKER_00: growth capital in this sense. I mean, we've got to, what I view is a fantastic product. We've
[06:12] SPEAKER_00: got some great customers. So the challenge, the next phase of the business and the challenge
[06:16] SPEAKER_00: becomes ensuring that we have a global presence. And so reaching outside, which ultimately
[06:22] SPEAKER_00: to do that in a fashion that is far reaching as well as at a speed that is of interest,
[06:28] SPEAKER_00: is requires an element of capital. And that's been tough for us to come across at the same time.
[06:34] SPEAKER_00: The growth situation for us hasn't been what we would have liked, and perhaps that's part of
[06:38] SPEAKER_00: contribution to that lack of interest at this stage. So we're very optimistic about what 2020 is
[06:44] SPEAKER_00: going to bring. We're seeing a lot of shift with respect to brands looking for that next evolution.
[06:49] SPEAKER_00: You know, one of the things that we hang on to here is that social has been so popular, but in
[06:53] SPEAKER_00: essence, social is no different than radio TV and print was, it's a broadcast medium.
[06:59] SPEAKER_00: You know, our product provides purpose and means by which you can interact with the community.
[07:04] SPEAKER_00: And so we view it as giving social ultimately a purpose. So taking the people there self-identifying
[07:09] SPEAKER_00: and saying, you know, I like my Facebook page or I like the brand through this Facebook page. I
[07:13] SPEAKER_00: follow you on Twitter or Instagram. We're saying, take those individuals, bring them into a community
[07:17] SPEAKER_00: that you control, provide them with content, engage with them, give them a platform of which they
[07:22] SPEAKER_00: can contribute to the future of your organization. And at the same time, reap some of the understanding
[07:27] SPEAKER_00: of what is important to them, let them help you understand what are the things that you should
[07:31] SPEAKER_00: be focused on first, next generation product and direction of the organization.
[07:36] SPEAKER_01: Okay. As a non-trip printer and as a business person, what's the best piece of advice you've
[07:42] SPEAKER_00: ever received? Persistence. Persistence. At the end of the day, I think one of the things I believe
[07:47] SPEAKER_00: is that we as, or I could say, if you haven't gone through the experience of an early stage of
[07:54] SPEAKER_00: organization and your assessment comes to a media, I think the media paints a picture that
[08:00] SPEAKER_00: things happen very quickly. And I'm not saying that they don't in general, but that's not the norm.
[08:05] SPEAKER_00: The norm is it takes persists. It takes a number of years and you know, the old adage was
[08:10] SPEAKER_00: twice as long and twice as much money. And I think that remains in place today. So,
[08:16] SPEAKER_00: persistence sticking with it, you know, basically driving the vision,
[08:20] SPEAKER_00: leaving and what you're doing. And then I just continue to kind of march forward.
[08:24] SPEAKER_01: Okay. I'm going to ask you some personal, more personal types of questions. Everybody's got a bucket
[08:29] SPEAKER_00: less these days. What's on top of yours? Completely outside of business. I look for things that
[08:37] SPEAKER_00: just allow me to kind of distract myself from the day to day. You know, one of the things that
[08:42] SPEAKER_00: as an entrepreneur is an early stage organization, the list of things to do never ends and it's long.
[08:48] SPEAKER_00: And so the opportunity to completely step away, I think, provides a mental recharge. And for me,
[08:54] SPEAKER_00: I've actually fallen with interest into roasting coffee. And so I'm aspiring right now to
[09:00] SPEAKER_00: become a better roaster and work with the various elements of the roast profile to kind of extract
[09:06] SPEAKER_00: the various flavors that you can get out of coffee. So I'm fascinated by that right now. I'm not
[09:09] SPEAKER_01: very good at it. But I'm so when you do stuff like that, do you find that you get ideas about your
[09:17] SPEAKER_01: business when you're away from it in other pursuits and passions? Yeah. Yeah. I think the situation
[09:25] SPEAKER_00: is more that you're just putting your mind at ease. And so subconsciously, you're processing
[09:30] SPEAKER_00: things that kind of come forward. So whether it's roasting coffee or it's sitting and reading a decent
[09:36] SPEAKER_00: book or just literally down by the river on a park bench and staring into the abyss kind of thing.
[09:41] SPEAKER_00: And that's the thing you know, something pops into your mind because my world, and most entrepreneurs
[09:45] SPEAKER_00: world for the last 15, 20 years has just been constantly processing what's next, what's next, what's
[09:51] SPEAKER_00: next. And as a result, I think you're you're always turned on, which can be it can be mentally
[09:58] SPEAKER_00: exhausting and therefore the opportunity to distract by removing yourself out of the day to day
[10:03] SPEAKER_00: just provides a bit of an energy recharge. So it's very beneficial. You mentioned books. Do you read
[10:09] SPEAKER_00: books? I do. I try to. I would I always say I would love to read more, but I do try to at least read
[10:15] SPEAKER_00: a number of books, and especially if I step away from the business. Anytime I go on vacation,
[10:19] SPEAKER_00: I typically like to read books both related and unrelated. For the same reasons, I just express an
[10:25] SPEAKER_00: opportunity kind of mentally kind of put myself in a different place. What kind of books do you read?
[10:31] SPEAKER_00: I've got a strong sports background. So I'm always looking at books that are both
[10:36] SPEAKER_00: business oriented from sports as well as sort of mental toughness. I actively coach a 15-year-old
[10:43] SPEAKER_00: minor midget team here in Calgary. And so the mental side of the game is something that's always
[10:48] SPEAKER_00: been of interest. And so things like that I find fascinating. A lot of biography fees. I love to
[10:53] SPEAKER_00: understand and see the challenges that others have gone through, whether it's in the rock world,
[10:58] SPEAKER_00: whether it's in the sports world, business world, etc. I've read a number of those that I find
[11:02] SPEAKER_00: interesting. I'm currently reading a book called Sailing to the Edge of Time with John Kreshmer.
[11:09] SPEAKER_00: And it's again just totally unrelated, but an individual that basically circumnavigated
[11:15] SPEAKER_00: in some of the challenges he had as an individual out on the ocean in his very plus foot boat. So
[11:20] SPEAKER_00: it's again, those are the types of things that find interesting. Cool. So you mentioned sports background.
[11:25] SPEAKER_01: This is one thing. I also have a sports background. My first 12 years of my journalism career
[11:31] SPEAKER_01: was writing sports. But what I find these days, I run into a lot of people in the community here in
[11:37] SPEAKER_01: Calgary that have a sports background, a business people. What do you think sports gives people
[11:44] SPEAKER_00: as a foundation for business success? Oh, yeah. That's a great question. Number of things. And again,
[11:51] SPEAKER_00: depending on the individual, I'll speak from my perspective. Number one, everyone gets the idea
[11:55] SPEAKER_00: of a team. I mean, in a business world, I mean, you're talking to me today, but realistically,
[12:00] SPEAKER_00: and understandably behind me are a complete tip of individuals that contribute to the day-to-day
[12:05] SPEAKER_00: progress of the organization ongoing. So that's number one. We're dealing to work with individuals.
[12:10] SPEAKER_00: Same thing with the team as far as working together is the understanding of rules and responsibilities.
[12:14] SPEAKER_00: So no matter whether it's hockey, football, soccer, lacrosse, etc. Everyone is identified as having
[12:20] SPEAKER_00: a responsibility and somewhat held accountable for that with respect to the team understanding that
[12:25] SPEAKER_00: if you don't deliver as an individual, then the team as a whole can't be necessarily successful.
[12:29] SPEAKER_00: That's for sure. Second thing is our another element would be leadership. I think,
[12:35] SPEAKER_00: depending on what and where you were involved in sports, you can come out of it with a strong
[12:39] SPEAKER_00: aspect of leadership. So whether leadership comes in a direct responsibility by wearing, say, a
[12:44] SPEAKER_00: letter becoming captain of a team, or you're simply an individual that steps up at a certain time in
[12:49] SPEAKER_00: a game and recognizes that leadership role because you brought an aspect to the game or a specific
[12:55] SPEAKER_00: timeline that's been important to the success of the organization. Last thing I'll say is understanding
[13:01] SPEAKER_00: the role of other individuals. As an athlete, you have a coach and therefore the importance of
[13:06] SPEAKER_00: that coach well in business, I think coaching is something that continues to grow within business
[13:11] SPEAKER_00: and so having a coach with respect to your role is always important as well. One of the other
[13:17] SPEAKER_01: things I've often heard from people is failure. Learning from failure and dealing with failure.
[13:23] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, great, great comment. One of the things that you remind me of is when I coach my guys,
[13:30] SPEAKER_00: the first thing I do at the beginning of the year is tell them, my expectation is that you will fail
[13:34] SPEAKER_00: because if you're not failing, you're not pushing that boundary. If you're always in your comfort
[13:38] SPEAKER_00: cell, then the situation is such that you're not going to develop. So my initial talk with the
[13:44] SPEAKER_00: guys is I'm telling you, I will fail. I will make mistakes as well as the other coaches.
[13:48] SPEAKER_00: It's our expectations will be you will as well. So giving them a safe environment which
[13:53] SPEAKER_00: they understand failure is part of development and part of basically making sure that we progress
[13:58] SPEAKER_01: as a group throughout the year. Okay, great. If you had one word to describe yourself, what would it
[14:07] SPEAKER_00: be in life? Well, I would say grinder and I might add silent in the front of that because I'm
[14:14] SPEAKER_00: relatively quiet individual. I'm an introvert proudly, which brings with it some other things,
[14:20] SPEAKER_00: but I would say grinder, you know, given a task and given a specific challenge, I mean, I do
[14:27] SPEAKER_00: it takes to get to the end. So sometimes I find that in today's world, the timeline people
[14:32] SPEAKER_00: have worked within our expectations of full success, however, that's defined as shorter than
[14:37] SPEAKER_00: what's realistic. And so persistence and sticking with it over the long haul is something that I value
[14:43] SPEAKER_00: and believe in and such. I think defines grinder as a definition or sorry as a word. So if it's
[14:50] SPEAKER_00: something that I look to do on a daily basis. In the sports world, there's a lot of routine involved,
[14:57] SPEAKER_01: right? And I'm wondering in terms of what you do for work and business and your life, do you have
[15:05] SPEAKER_00: a routine that you follow every day? You know, it's an interesting question. I would say there is
[15:12] SPEAKER_00: an element of routine for sure, but within that there's a lot of variability. So certainly from
[15:18] SPEAKER_00: an individual perspective, you know, I'm usually up at the same time, you know, six o'clock in the
[15:23] SPEAKER_00: morning, I'm up. I've got a dog, I'll lock the dog. That gives me time for that sort of thinking
[15:28] SPEAKER_00: as well and to sort of look at what's ahead of my day. So I certainly value that 30, 40 minutes of
[15:33] SPEAKER_00: walking to kind of let my mind wander and perhaps come up with some of those ideas we talked about
[15:38] SPEAKER_00: earlier in work. And then, you know, usually things start off with, you know, as one would expect
[15:43] SPEAKER_00: to review of the emails, number of meetings during the day, those can vary substantially. And then,
[15:48] SPEAKER_00: you know, throughout the day, what have you relative to a given week? The end of my work day, I'm
[15:54] SPEAKER_00: doing one of two things. I'm trying to get myself a work on it for myself or else I'm actually
[15:58] SPEAKER_00: heading to the ring to coach coach. So it's pretty much that in terms of a daily basis and,
[16:05] SPEAKER_00: you know, most weeks kind of follow the same thing. So certain days of coaching, other days I'm
[16:10] SPEAKER_00: working out, but in between, you know, sort of that 730, the six o'clock works day. It's pretty
[16:16] SPEAKER_00: standard in the sense that, you know, it's the emails, the meetings, client discussions, etc. So
[16:22] SPEAKER_00: that's about as much as standardization, but at the same time, very very good in that.
[16:27] SPEAKER_01: All right, I'm going to present you a situation and just want to see how you respond to it. Okay.
[16:32] SPEAKER_01: So imagine there's a small, beautiful tropical island in the middle of the ocean with only one
[16:38] SPEAKER_01: full booth and no internet, no other technology around. We're going to drop you off there. And at
[16:45] SPEAKER_01: any time, you can use the phone booth to call us and we'll come pick you up and take your home.
[16:50] SPEAKER_01: Couple questions. First of all, how long do you think you would last before you made that phone call?
[16:56] SPEAKER_01: And second, what do you think you'd be doing on that island by yourself?
[17:02] SPEAKER_00: Wow. Yeah, that would be going sort of to an extreme from what typically happens to be no internet
[17:09] SPEAKER_00: and access. I would like to believe I'd be able to last a number of weeks. And I think what I would
[17:19] SPEAKER_00: imagine it, the first few days could be tough because it would break what is traditionally part of
[17:25] SPEAKER_00: my day, which is online access, whether it be to catch up on the news, sports, you know, business
[17:30] SPEAKER_00: related emails, etc. So something there will be missing. I think that would need to be changed.
[17:35] SPEAKER_00: But I think after that, I would probably settle in fairly well for that couple of weeks. And I say
[17:41] SPEAKER_00: a couple of weeks because I would imagine that after that, I'd exhaust both the interest of what's
[17:46] SPEAKER_00: going on on the island. Again, not knowing how big it is, but there's probably something to explore
[17:50] SPEAKER_00: for a period of time, you know, sensing out some of the things that traditionally wouldn't have on
[17:55] SPEAKER_00: a day-to-day basis would probably feel some of that time. Yeah. Billy just kind of unpack things,
[18:01] SPEAKER_00: you know, go into a state of alcoholic kind of like meditation. The Billy did, it was kind of
[18:06] SPEAKER_00: inwardly seek some of the things that you wrestle with on a daily basis. Just spend some time
[18:11] SPEAKER_00: thinking through that. But I would imagine that, you know, so the two to three weeks, it might be
[18:16] SPEAKER_00: a point where I want to check out. I don't know. I would love the opportunity to see how long that
[18:22] SPEAKER_00: would take, actually. I think it would be fast. It's a good challenge for people, I think.
[18:25] SPEAKER_00: Yes. Yes. I think one of the things I find today is that, you know, when we do get the
[18:31] SPEAKER_00: opportunity to step away, you know, through vacation, how, I mean, it's typically taking that's
[18:36] SPEAKER_00: why I respond the way. It takes a couple days to get out of that routine of constantly looking,
[18:40] SPEAKER_00: you know, to see what emails come in or what have you. And, you know, at the same time, I find myself,
[18:45] SPEAKER_00: you know, critically evaluating saying, wow, this is just not good, but it's reality. So I need to
[18:50] SPEAKER_01: check out for sure. Yeah. Okay. Then. So Terry, is there anything you'd like to add before we leave
[18:57] SPEAKER_00: today? You know, I think I would kind of go back to a few things, sort of on the topic of
[19:04] SPEAKER_00: entrepreneurship and kind of express that, you know, it's a tough place to be. You know, there's
[19:11] SPEAKER_00: our huge challenges. If it was easy, arguably, everybody would be doing it. And so one of the things
[19:15] SPEAKER_00: that as I interface with a lot of entrepreneurs that I kind of echo is that the views that we get
[19:20] SPEAKER_00: from the media, albeit it exists, but it's not the norm. And so these quick rises, lots of capital.
[19:29] SPEAKER_00: I think that's ideally what people with Salesforce or the Silicon Valley model, but it's not the
[19:33] SPEAKER_00: norm. It's so appreciating things that may take longer than what you would expect as well as
[19:38] SPEAKER_00: require, you know, twice, twice the time twice the money, as I said before. At the same time,
[19:44] SPEAKER_00: I think people, you know, the team part of it is so critical. I mean, it's not something you do
[19:48] SPEAKER_00: in your own. You start off, perhaps as an individual or a couple of co-founders. You start to build a
[19:53] SPEAKER_00: team, but the importance of having a group of individuals that can support you work with you,
[19:57] SPEAKER_00: align with you. It's heavy lifting and you need that kind of, you know, team to basically have
[20:04] SPEAKER_00: success over the long run. So investing in your people, investing and choosing your people is
[20:10] SPEAKER_00: by far the number one priority. And arguably something that, as we're in that fast paced growth
[20:15] SPEAKER_00: we don't year spend enough time looking at. So that's something that I would definitely echo
[20:20] SPEAKER_00: out there as I talk to individuals or to the audience here today. Okay, thanks, Terry, for joining
[20:26] SPEAKER_01: us today on Calgary Podcast. Perfect. Thanks very much. Hey there, thanks for taking the time
[20:34] SPEAKER_01: today to listen to Calgary's podcast on Canada's podcast network. We hope you enjoyed the show today.
[20:41] SPEAKER_01: Make sure you sign up for our newsletters and write a review for us on iTunes and then connect
[20:47] SPEAKER_01: with us on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn at Canada's podcast. You can also check out what
[20:55] SPEAKER_01: other entrepreneurs are doing across the country.
[22:08] SPEAKER_00: you
[22:08] SPEAKER_00: See you next time
