============================================================
TRANSCRIPTION WITH SPEAKERS
============================================================
[00:00] SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Candace Podcast.
[00:05] SPEAKER_01: Hi, this is Saline hosting from Ontario for Canada's podcast. My guest today is Stone U who is the CEO of
[00:13] SPEAKER_01: Localist Bakery. He is a second generation owner of a 30-year-old business operating in the GTA and now has plans to expand. Welcome Stone. It's really nice to have here.
[00:21] SPEAKER_00: Thank you. Thank you for having me.
[00:23] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely. So I love the fact that you are the CEO of a 30-year-old business. That's pretty awesome.
[00:31] SPEAKER_01: So tell me a little bit about your journey as an entrepreneur and a little bit about the history of Localist Bakery because it sounds pretty cool.
[00:38] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so Localist Bakery is my family business and we specialize in Asian-style breads and desserts.
[00:46] SPEAKER_00: And so we've been operating for 30 years down the GTA. We're very well known in the GTA. And me, myself, my first memory of being in the kitchen would be from 11 years old.
[01:02] SPEAKER_00: That's when I started learning how to make the egg tarts, which is one of the very popular items that we sell.
[01:10] SPEAKER_00: And so slowly and slowly, I always liked being in the kitchen and it was always exciting how you can make something with your hands and then bake it and then it's delicious.
[01:27] SPEAKER_00: But then you serve it to customers and then they enjoy it. So that always kind of fascinated me.
[01:34] SPEAKER_00: The enjoyment of how friends would react to eating my food and how customers would come back. That kind of thing.
[01:43] SPEAKER_00: And so from a very young age, I would spend a lot of time in our kitchen with a lot of our chefs. They were very well in the teaching.
[01:53] SPEAKER_00: And so after school or on weekends, I would spend a little time every day trying to learn something new, possibly improving on the recipe.
[02:05] SPEAKER_00: And then slowly and slowly, once I kind of got a better hold of how to make bread and what bread is, and it's always evolving.
[02:17] SPEAKER_00: It's like you can't learn enough above it because there's so many small details that can go into it and changes what you make.
[02:26] SPEAKER_00: Later on, I'll probably when I was in university or close to 2020, 20 years old, I started getting more into the business side of it.
[02:36] SPEAKER_00: So how to manage staff, how what a store should look like, how it should be managed, and those kinds of things.
[02:47] SPEAKER_00: And then after university, I started working full time at the bakery and slowly up till now, we're at a point we are ready to expand beyond the three stories that we already have.
[03:06] SPEAKER_00: And we are planning to be opening two more stories this year, as well as a new franchise business for our company.
[03:14] SPEAKER_01: That's awesome. It sounds like, first of all, a lot of change in a kind of a crazy year. So congratulations, that's phenomenal.
[03:23] SPEAKER_01: But it sounds like you really have big plans for what you want to do with this business.
[03:27] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I feel like I'm actually just getting started. So we have a lot of history.
[03:36] SPEAKER_00: And I feel like right now at this point, there are so many ways where the business can go.
[03:44] SPEAKER_00: And sometimes it can be a lot of pressure because it is a pretty big ship steer.
[03:52] SPEAKER_00: But I learned from my parents, you have to treat your customers well and make things and be honest.
[04:01] SPEAKER_00: You can make, sometimes I come up with new products and they don't work, sometimes they do.
[04:07] SPEAKER_00: And you have to be very honest about whether it's good or not.
[04:11] SPEAKER_00: How is the service? How is the store kept? And be very detailed oriented towards those things.
[04:21] SPEAKER_00: And so right now, I mean, we're opening two more stories this year.
[04:26] SPEAKER_00: Hopefully next year we'll be targeting it opening three more.
[04:30] SPEAKER_00: We recently purchased a new factory. So a new production facility for all the new franchise stores.
[04:38] SPEAKER_00: And yeah, so we're just getting started. It's really exciting.
[04:42] SPEAKER_01: I mean, I love that. And kudos to your parents for starting and establishing such a successful business.
[04:50] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm very grateful to have parents that have taught me to have self confidence in self esteem.
[04:58] SPEAKER_00: And but at the same time be very critical of yourself and the kind of products that you come up with.
[05:07] SPEAKER_00: It's very rare nowadays to have millennials take over their family business.
[05:15] SPEAKER_00: So it's becoming less and less, especially in the food industry.
[05:19] SPEAKER_00: You're going to see the next 10 years a lot fewer mom and pop shops.
[05:26] SPEAKER_00: So 30 years back when my parents first opened the bakery, there was a lot of Asian bakers like us.
[05:33] SPEAKER_00: Right. So there was a lot of just exactly what you expect people coming from Hong Kong.
[05:40] SPEAKER_00: And they have those skills and they owe and what they choose is the open bakery.
[05:45] SPEAKER_00: But nowadays, I mean, the number is probably less than half, especially the old ones.
[05:53] SPEAKER_00: And so it's an interesting topic because it kind of shows how a business needs to innovate throughout the years.
[06:05] SPEAKER_00: So I'm very grateful that my parents, they realize this 10 years back, right, or even earlier, and started slowly making investments into the business that allows it to be,
[06:20] SPEAKER_00: allows it allows it to give a transition a little more easy.
[06:27] SPEAKER_00: So I think that's really the issue with the restaurant industry with many small mom pop shops that the kids are not passionate, first of all not passionate about the business.
[06:41] SPEAKER_00: And second of all, there isn't really a vision for the future of those of the smaller shops.
[06:50] SPEAKER_00: And we're small too, but it's tough to motivate a lot of kids.
[06:59] SPEAKER_00: I have some friends with family businesses and they've decided to not take it over.
[07:04] SPEAKER_00: Right. Just because it's too much work. It's a lot of stress, especially in the kitchen.
[07:08] SPEAKER_00: You know, it's hot. It's it's it's grimy, you know, things like that.
[07:15] SPEAKER_00: So we're lucky to have these investments that my parents made.
[07:22] SPEAKER_00: We're now that we're at a point where we can expand.
[07:25] SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
[07:26] SPEAKER_01: And so there's two things that I want to patch on inside of what you said.
[07:30] SPEAKER_01: And the first one is I think you're I think you're right.
[07:33] SPEAKER_01: I think in every community, the likelihood of children taking over family businesses, whatever they are has diminished significantly.
[07:41] SPEAKER_01: And I think that part of it is that we have way more choice and a different type of education that we can pursue, which then gives us more choice.
[07:49] SPEAKER_01: And and when that happens and we glorify this idea of pursue your passion, which means that I'm just going to wait.
[07:58] SPEAKER_01: You know, if my I mean, I don't do what my parents do, right?
[08:01] SPEAKER_01: Like my parents both had their own businesses and not that it not physical location businesses much more knowledge base.
[08:08] SPEAKER_01: So it would have been harder for me, but I could have said, oh, I want to do the similar thing to my parents and pursued that track and taken over clients.
[08:14] SPEAKER_01: And I certainly didn't because I was interested in different things.
[08:19] SPEAKER_01: And I think the more that we glorify that, the less we're going to see family businesses lasting multi generations.
[08:25] SPEAKER_01: And so I think it is a really, which is not to say this isn't your passion.
[08:29] SPEAKER_01: But which but I think there's a balance of this is a wonderful legacy that your parents have created that you are passionate enough about.
[08:38] SPEAKER_01: To take over and continue to build and grow. And I think that is a really phenomenal thing.
[08:47] SPEAKER_01: And I love that you said that your parents started investing in the business and we're willing to innovate.
[08:52] SPEAKER_01: And I'd love to hear a little bit from your perspective what that looked like, because I think we don't always talk, especially 10 years ago, plus, right.
[09:00] SPEAKER_01: I think now when we talk about innovation, we focus on the technology of it.
[09:03] SPEAKER_01: But this is the tech and we're going to create an app. We're going to do it fine.
[09:06] SPEAKER_01: But your parents found a way to innovate and stay relevant 10 plus years ago that was probably not relying on technology.
[09:15] SPEAKER_01: So I'd love to hear a little bit about what that was like and what you've learned from their experience and that.
[09:23] SPEAKER_00: So I would say so the way Bakery is usually operate is that the owners would be working 14 or 15 hours a day in the kitchen or either on the counter.
[09:38] SPEAKER_00: So that's how it was 30 years ago when they first started.
[09:42] SPEAKER_01: Sure.
[09:43] SPEAKER_00: But then I think recently I've been kind of realizing that hard work is hard work.
[09:52] SPEAKER_00: But is that hard work and investment into your business that will pay dividends in the future?
[09:59] SPEAKER_00: Right. So I mean, you can be slaving away in the kitchen for 12 hours a day and that's hard work. Right. That's tough work.
[10:06] SPEAKER_00: But you can also be, you can take yourself away from that and do work that will pay dividends in the future that will build a stronger foundation for your business.
[10:18] SPEAKER_00: Right. So that's, it's like, is it, are you investing in your in your business with hard work or are you just simply doing labor?
[10:27] SPEAKER_00: Right. And I feel like a lot of, especially in the Asian community, if they own a restaurant, they're just simply doing hard labor.
[10:36] SPEAKER_00: Right. Grab this. Just grafting. Right. And you have to go through that in the beginning.
[10:40] SPEAKER_00: But then once you get to a certain point, you have to think about branding, marketing, right, packaging, establishing different managers.
[10:50] SPEAKER_00: Right. Ten years ago, we rented our first factory. Right. That produces all the raw components of the bread. Right.
[11:01] SPEAKER_00: So while keeping the same quality. Right. Because we pride ourselves in baking on site.
[11:09] SPEAKER_00: So customers are always getting fresh bread throughout the day. Right. But the raw parts, the fermentation, the parts that take a long time in a lot of area.
[11:19] SPEAKER_00: That can be done at a production facility. Right. And then having people there to operate it properly.
[11:26] SPEAKER_00: And when we first rented it, it was a big expense. Right. It was your renting the factory. It's going to be upwards of 100,000 a year. Right.
[11:35] SPEAKER_00: So then a lot of people didn't understand like, why do you need to do it? Just do it. Like you were doing before. Right.
[11:42] SPEAKER_00: And the point is you cannot scale up if you keep on doing it the way it was before. Right.
[11:50] SPEAKER_00: And I think also that my parents always encouraged me to learn more about bread. Look, I was very interested in it. Right.
[11:59] SPEAKER_00: And to kind of fall the chefs, learn what the chefs are doing at all time, even to the smallest detail. Right.
[12:08] SPEAKER_00: Because I don't know if you make bread, but like everything can affect it. Temperature, time, the weather. Right.
[12:18] SPEAKER_00: So these small details really interested me. Right. I was able to make things a little bit better, a little bit at a time.
[12:27] SPEAKER_00: So at the same time, I'm learning all this knowledge. And what that does is it prevents what happens to a lot of food places is the chef taking you hostage. Right.
[12:42] SPEAKER_00: Taking the order hostage and it happens a lot. We're at meeting that you have to, you have to kind of give into their demands. Right.
[12:52] SPEAKER_00: They don't work so much. They don't want to do this. They don't want to make that product. And so we make a system where the work is split out between different groups of people.
[13:05] SPEAKER_00: So if you're the beginning process of mixing the dough, that's out here to some people and then shaping up the dough and then baking the dough. Right.
[13:17] SPEAKER_00: And then we kind of try to systemize it a little bit. So it's easier to follow. It's easier to teach someone new.
[13:28] SPEAKER_00: If there's ever changed with chefs, but we're very lucky because we have a group of very good chefs and they create chefs are very loyal and they make really high quality products.
[13:43] SPEAKER_00: And so I think I, yeah. So that, yeah, like that.
[13:49] SPEAKER_01: I think it's, it's a, your parents took a big risk in renting that, that production facility and stepping out of the normal, quote, normal, the expected, let's say, way of doing things at that point in time.
[14:04] SPEAKER_01: And it obviously worked and they obviously made it work.
[14:09] SPEAKER_00: So it's like a step by step. So we rented that factory. We know how a factory should operate. Right. And now last year we were, we had the chance to buy our own factory.
[14:20] SPEAKER_00: And so now we're building it out. Right. It's 20,000 square feet. Now we're building it up to 40,000 square feet. And we have a lot of new equipment that takes out a lot of the laborious work from it.
[14:35] SPEAKER_00: So I mean, you could imagine that each batch of dough that would make is about 300 pounds. Right. And usually they, the chef would have to take the dough out and put it into a divider. Right.
[14:48] SPEAKER_00: So machinery that can do that automatically doesn't affect the quality might even make it better.
[14:54] SPEAKER_00: But it takes off a lot of the hard laborious work from it. And so, or even like machines, little machines that can help the chef shape the dough. Right. And just better equipment. So with those kind of things, it becomes a little more easier to teach someone that's new.
[15:18] SPEAKER_01: Yeah. Yeah. It makes makes tons of sense. So as, as you stepped into this role of CEO, presumably it's your first role of CEO.
[15:36] SPEAKER_01: So as you stepped into your first role of CEO and role of CEO at your family's company, what has that looked like for you and what has been surprising to you and what has been, you know, good or bad. And what has been some of that would have been some of the lessons you've learned inside of that.
[15:54] SPEAKER_00: So I'm excited. So I feel very excited about it. Right.
[16:00] SPEAKER_00: I get very excited about opening a new store, about designing it the way I want to, or even designing the factory the way I want to, you know, and have everything.
[16:12] SPEAKER_00: Have kind of like be more involved in it. Right. So, and get really into the details of from designing it to the building of the store, to the way it looks and then to hiring people.
[16:28] SPEAKER_00: All that stuff is very exciting for me. And then it makes it worth it when customers come back, you know, they have your product. They like it.
[16:37] SPEAKER_00: And that's that's really what my goal is. Right. And not only that, it's, I feel responsible to take care of business that my family built.
[16:50] SPEAKER_00: And a responsibility towards the staff that have been so loyal, we have about 50 staff with us right now. And most of them have been with us for over 10 years. Some even from beginning a couple.
[17:02] SPEAKER_00: So, and then also responsibility to the customer. Right. We are part of what we open a bakery. Our bakery is part of the community that we're in. Right. People come for their bread. Right. And so you, it almost feels bad if you were to let them down.
[17:22] SPEAKER_01: You know, yeah.
[17:26] SPEAKER_01: Are you, I'm going to ask this question, not this is a point, but I'm curious, is your family still involved or as you've taken over CEO, have they stepped back maybe into retirement at this point?
[17:37] SPEAKER_00: Nope, not quite. Because there's still a lot of back in stuff. Okay. For example, accounting.
[17:44] SPEAKER_00: And those kinds of those kinds of things. And but then we also, when, wherever's a big decision, there's always so we're going to have a discussion about it. Right. And I'm still learning. So there's a lot of things I'm exploring and learning and things I might get right and I get wrong. And so, yeah, my family is still very involved.
[18:09] SPEAKER_01: So it really is a multi generational endeavor at this point.
[18:13] SPEAKER_00: Yep. And you'll see my grandma at one at our store here in Richmond, hell, and she goes to work every day at 5 a.m.
[18:22] SPEAKER_00: Wow. She does her thing and she opens the store and she makes sure that people are, you know, baking the things properly and people are late for work. Wow.
[18:33] SPEAKER_00: The old generation is a different kind of people.
[18:38] SPEAKER_01: Yes, I mean, I think that's definitely true. That's impressive that she's still doing that. So, you know, even more generational than I was expecting. I think that's a wonderful thing.
[18:49] SPEAKER_01: So beyond the two additional locations this year and hopefully three next year, what do you think the future of localest bakery looks like in five years?
[19:06] SPEAKER_00: I would expect to have 25 to 30 stores.
[19:13] SPEAKER_00: When does it and then maybe we would open in the States? Right. I love I love the there's the state has a big market opportunity.
[19:24] SPEAKER_00: I would love to open in Texas or New York. Yeah, or San Francisco.
[19:32] SPEAKER_00: So there's so many opportunities. We it's hard to say. Right.
[19:36] SPEAKER_00: But my focus right now is to continue to build on the foundation. Right. So we have this new factory that we're renovating and to make sure that we don't grow too quickly. Right.
[19:52] SPEAKER_00: That's the point is not to be as big as possible. The point is to be as good of a business as possible. Right.
[19:59] SPEAKER_00: So because I know some some restaurants or some some franchise chains they want to open 10 or 20 stores as quickly as possible. Right. And then sell it.
[20:14] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right. But for me, it's different because it's for me, it's a long term game. Right. I'm 26 when I'm 60. I want to have a really solid business.
[20:26] SPEAKER_00: And it's just one step at a time. So open stores that we had our conflict in. Right. We know what's going to succeed. We don't want to just open stores because it's because you got a franchise D and there's opportunity.
[20:42] SPEAKER_01: So let's go for. Right. Yes. So I want to ask this question because this past year has been very hard on the restaurant industry in general, especially, but like really, especially here in Ontario and in the GTA, it's been brutal.
[20:59] SPEAKER_01: And it sounds like you have not just survived, but really thrived in this past year. So I'd love to hear a little bit about what.
[21:12] SPEAKER_01: Why you think you were able to thrive in the past year. And if there's, you know, any observations you have about that because it's.
[21:23] SPEAKER_01: You know, it's a little bit heartbreak. It's been heartbreaking for a lot of restaurant owners and a lot of bakery owners and a lot of smaller businesses and you have and congratulations, by the way, on thriving in the past year.
[21:39] SPEAKER_00: I think it partly could be the customer trust that we built up throughout all these years. Right. And so if your food is good, right.
[21:54] SPEAKER_00: Your chances of surviving are going to be a lot better. Right. And we're very grateful. We're very lucky that our businesses and everyday food. Right.
[22:04] SPEAKER_00: I mean, so people eat our bread almost every day, right. And coffee and milk tea. And so, but I know that some of the bakeries have closed down just because it's been too difficult.
[22:20] SPEAKER_00: And even, I mean, last year we had to face a hurdle too, right. People didn't want to come to work.
[22:28] SPEAKER_00: So in a production facility, there was about five or six people at the same time that just they'd rather take the government check, right. Stay home.
[22:36] SPEAKER_00: And well, there's nothing you can do about it, right. As a business owner. So at that time, it was really tough. I had to take on six jobs myself.
[22:47] SPEAKER_00: So that was about 16 hours a day for a month straight. And you know what. I never complained about it. And it was really tough. But I really liked it.
[23:04] SPEAKER_00: Like I felt like it was a great experience for me. Right. Because I at that point, I never worked so hard in my life. Let's be honest.
[23:14] SPEAKER_00: We don't work. This generation does not work as hard as the last as as our parents. Right. We're a lot. It's different. Right. So I felt like that was great. So then at that point, I realized everything I was learning since I was 12 years old up until now was for this purpose.
[23:34] SPEAKER_00: Right. Because we have a we have about a hundred different products. We have those, you have cards and everything's you have to make.
[23:42] SPEAKER_00: And I was able to take it over. Right. It took me more time. But I was able to completely fill in those six positions and then train new people to do what I need them to do.
[23:57] SPEAKER_00: And at that point before then, I never really felt that the business rested on my shoulders. Right. Right.
[24:07] SPEAKER_00: Because before then, you know, we have managers. We have accountants. We have chefs. Right. And they do everything. And so which makes our lives as business owners a lot easier. Right.
[24:20] SPEAKER_00: But when no one wants to come to work, it's either you make the dough properly. You make this properly or you have nothing to sell. Right. That really that was also exciting.
[24:34] SPEAKER_00: That was inspiring for me. And I never complained. I really liked it. That's fantastic. And so COVID, yes, it's it was a there's a lot of problems that we had that different challenges. Right.
[24:50] SPEAKER_00: But it was also very good learning opportunity for us. And and then it also gave us a confidence. Right. It was it was actually encouraging that even through this time, we have these little customers. Right. That still coming in every day or every other day, getting what they need.
[25:12] SPEAKER_00: And because most I mean for our stores, our staff knows almost about 80% of people that walk in. There was a lot of people that walk in, especially in the weekends.
[25:26] SPEAKER_00: And so it was kind of I felt like it was our duty to keep going. Right. And to make and to be even better. Right. Come up with new products, tweak recipes here and there. Make sure things are more consistent.
[25:42] SPEAKER_01: And so this COVID it's it's a they're good and bad parts. Yeah. Well, and I think you phrase that really well, which is it was a challenge and there were still lessons inside of it. So, you know, you face the challenge you made your way through and you've
[25:56] SPEAKER_01: reaped the rewards of those lessons. That's a very positive thing. Yeah, I mean, so.
[26:02] SPEAKER_00: So I mean, it's also in court and also there was the opportunity is that finding locations, right.
[26:11] SPEAKER_00: It was very, very hard finding the right locations at the right time. Right. So at young bench or upcoming location.
[26:20] SPEAKER_00: That's opening in two weeks.
[26:21] SPEAKER_00: It was almost impossible to find any good spots there before COVID, right. And then also with a trauma premium outlets. Right.
[26:34] SPEAKER_00: And not only that, you know, the industrial space in the GTA is very, very tough to find locations.
[26:44] SPEAKER_00: So during this time, we were able to secure location and expand.
[26:52] SPEAKER_01: It's amazing. Because of COVID. Yeah.
[26:54] SPEAKER_01: It's a it's a it's a really inspiring story.
[27:00] SPEAKER_01: And, you know, it really exemplifies the importance of having a strong brand and taking care of your customers and caring.
[27:13] SPEAKER_01: And the investment that you stone have had in the business and getting to know it from the ground up.
[27:22] SPEAKER_01: And it's not about you having to do all of the things. But when something happens and you have at least a starting point to know how to do the things.
[27:30] SPEAKER_01: Then you can get yourself unstuck for the next point in time.
[27:35] SPEAKER_00: That's that's where I meant by the chefs taking you hostage or your staff take you hostage, right.
[27:42] SPEAKER_00: They're if if ever that happens again, there is no negotiation. Right.
[27:48] SPEAKER_00: There's no you can't make outrageous demands to the owner. And that's that's actually very important.
[27:54] SPEAKER_01: Yeah. No, I appreciate that.
[27:57] SPEAKER_01: So, what, where can the folks who are listening or watching this, where can they find you online?
[28:06] SPEAKER_00: We have a look list on Instagram.
[28:08] SPEAKER_00: And also Facebook and a website is looklist bakery.com.
[28:13] SPEAKER_01: So all of these will be linked in the show notes, obviously. And people can find you there and stone.
[28:19] SPEAKER_01: Thank you for taking the time to chat with me. I really appreciate it's been lovely getting to know you.
[28:24] SPEAKER_00: Thank you. Thank you for having me.
[28:26] SPEAKER_01: Absolutely. And to all of our listeners and viewers, thanks for listening to Canada's podcast.
[28:31] SPEAKER_01: Like, comment and subscribe to all our channels to get the latest podcasts from entrepreneurs across Canada.
