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TRANSCRIPTION WITH SPEAKERS
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[00:00] SPEAKER_01: It's Toronto's podcast on the Canada's podcast network.
[00:04] SPEAKER_00: Hi everyone, I'm Phil Bliss, a business visionary and welcome to Toronto's Podcasts.
[00:10] SPEAKER_00: Part of the Canada's podcast network, your source of the great insights from entrepreneurs
[00:15] SPEAKER_00: across Canada.
[00:17] SPEAKER_00: Today we will leave Meng, founder and CEO of Steele Law and online legal businesses.
[00:24] SPEAKER_00: Before we go a lot further, you tell us a little bit about yourself, but let's you and I keep the kind of
[00:34] SPEAKER_00: Covid wishes right in the heart of Covid-19.
[00:38] SPEAKER_00: So let's keep that in mind and as we're moving through it, maybe make some observations if it makes sense.
[00:47] SPEAKER_00: I think a couple of other interviews on the way to this one and we kept things going,
[00:55] SPEAKER_00: it's still about your story, but observations are great.
[01:00] SPEAKER_00: Tell us a bit about yourself, what you do, in fact, you're a business and how what you do might be relevant to the current situation for other entrepreneurs that aren't virtualised yet.
[01:14] SPEAKER_00: Maybe that's what we should talk about.
[01:17] SPEAKER_01: Okay, cool, that sounds great, Phil.
[01:19] SPEAKER_01: I wanted to start by saying thanks for having me on.
[01:22] SPEAKER_01: I really appreciate it and yeah, I do think that everything that people are talking about right now is coloured by the current situation.
[01:30] SPEAKER_01: I think it's very much on all of our minds.
[01:33] SPEAKER_01: So with that in mind, I'll tell you a little bit about myself.
[01:37] SPEAKER_01: I always tell people that my story is one of failing at many things and I think that's always appropriate for an entrepreneur.
[01:47] SPEAKER_00: That's a good line for entrepreneurs.
[01:50] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, for sure, for sure, you've got to be ready to fail if you're going to be an entrepreneur.
[01:54] SPEAKER_01: So he started as an engineer.
[01:56] SPEAKER_01: I went to Queens and Kingston where I had grown up and I started as an engineer and I got a job, a great job in Ottawa working for Lockheed Canada and I was really happy about that.
[02:06] SPEAKER_01: And then I went and worked in Ottawa and I came to a realisation that there were other people who were far better at engineering than I was.
[02:13] SPEAKER_01: And it all came to me when we had a Waterloo co-op student.
[02:17] SPEAKER_01: One weekend, I caught this guy, Neil, was his name.
[02:21] SPEAKER_01: He was leaving for the weekend with a chip catalog, which for these books we had at the time that would have all of this information about chips.
[02:30] SPEAKER_01: So I asked him, Neil, what are you doing?
[02:32] SPEAKER_01: And he said, oh, don't worry, I'll bring it back, I'll bring it back.
[02:35] SPEAKER_01: And I said, yeah, I know you'll bring it back.
[02:37] SPEAKER_01: I'm just curious, where are you going with that chip catalog?
[02:39] SPEAKER_01: And he said, I'm building a circuit board and I'm going to do some research this weekend to figure out which are the best chips to use.
[02:48] SPEAKER_01: And I was jumping in the car to head to the Kingston to drink with my buddies and I thought, you know, Neil, you should be an engineer, not me.
[02:55] SPEAKER_01: So that was my first failing.
[02:57] SPEAKER_01: I had this great job as an engineer but I decided I should do something else.
[03:01] SPEAKER_01: So I went to law school and became a lawyer and I got a great job at a big Toronto Bay Street law firm called Davies Wharton Back.
[03:08] SPEAKER_01: And I did that for about three or four years.
[03:12] SPEAKER_01: And again, I came to the realization that there were other people who were far more interested in being a lawyer than I ever was.
[03:18] SPEAKER_01: And at the time, my, Neil wife, but my girlfriend at the time, had moved from Lithuania to Canada.
[03:26] SPEAKER_01: And she found that I was working all the time.
[03:28] SPEAKER_01: So the firm I was at, they kind of worked on a 24 hour work today.
[03:31] SPEAKER_01: And so I had an assistant from 830 to 5 and then I had an assistant from 5 until midnight.
[03:36] SPEAKER_01: And then we had a roving bank of assistance that went from midnight to 830.
[03:40] SPEAKER_01: And they called it their continuous work day.
[03:42] SPEAKER_01: And you kind of realize that when you have a continuous work day, you've got a continuous work week and a continuous work life.
[03:48] SPEAKER_01: And so you work all the time.
[03:50] SPEAKER_01: And so my, now wife said to me, you know, you should quit that job.
[03:54] SPEAKER_01: And I was stunned because I thought, you know, I worked pretty hard to get this job.
[03:58] SPEAKER_01: But I realized that she was exactly right that I was not enjoying working as a lawyer.
[04:03] SPEAKER_01: So I left and I became a business person, which for me was really my calling.
[04:08] SPEAKER_01: And that's what I like. And then I worked in a number of big companies.
[04:11] SPEAKER_01: So I worked first in a company called Spring Canada, or I worked in the parent company called call net.
[04:17] SPEAKER_01: And it was a great experience.
[04:19] SPEAKER_01: Then I went and worked in what I called with the time to start up.
[04:22] SPEAKER_01: But I think now that it was quite a large company.
[04:24] SPEAKER_01: We raised about 40 million dollars and was a public company.
[04:27] SPEAKER_01: And we grew it to about a hundred and fifty million dollar market cap.
[04:31] SPEAKER_01: So it was quite a big enterprise.
[04:32] SPEAKER_01: But at the time, I thought it was quite small.
[04:35] SPEAKER_01: And I did that for a while and had a great experience.
[04:39] SPEAKER_01: And then I left there and started running a publishing business in Canada or a worldwide company.
[04:45] SPEAKER_01: So my experience up until that point, it lasted about about 20 years.
[04:50] SPEAKER_01: I would say, isn't very big companies.
[04:53] SPEAKER_01: And then the business I was running in Canada got bought, bought by a competing worldwide company.
[05:00] SPEAKER_01: And so they did not need me to be the CEO anymore.
[05:03] SPEAKER_01: And so I was faced with the opportunity to do something else.
[05:08] SPEAKER_01: And that's when I got into a model of offering legal services the way that we're doing it today.
[05:14] SPEAKER_01: And more of an entrepreneurial model.
[05:16] SPEAKER_01: And that led me to start my own company.
[05:18] SPEAKER_01: And I always say that I am an entrepreneur, but I was kind of a reluctant entrepreneur.
[05:22] SPEAKER_01: I actually liked working in big companies.
[05:25] SPEAKER_01: But I think once you begin your own venture, you do get a great appreciation.
[05:31] SPEAKER_01: For when it's your baby, you feel a lot more connected to the exercise.
[05:37] SPEAKER_01: And I think working in a big company, I always felt like I was giving my all.
[05:41] SPEAKER_01: And I was deeply connected to success.
[05:44] SPEAKER_01: But it takes on a whole new meaning when it's your baby.
[05:47] SPEAKER_01: And I say it's your baby meaningfully, because I think when you're an entrepreneur,
[05:53] SPEAKER_01: the company that you're growing is something that you have an intense connection to.
[05:58] SPEAKER_01: The same way that parents have an intense connection to their children.
[06:02] SPEAKER_00: So that's really great.
[06:05] SPEAKER_00: That's a super story actually in terms of coming from, you know, the big cop to still pretty big,
[06:13] SPEAKER_00: but technically medium sized, I guess, to, and then coming and doing it yourself.
[06:21] SPEAKER_00: So in terms of that, I mean, you're giving it quite a bit.
[06:25] SPEAKER_00: What's the best thing about being an entrepreneur?
[06:30] SPEAKER_00: Because it was pretty good.
[06:31] SPEAKER_00: You had a pretty good ride there in the corporate world, right?
[06:34] SPEAKER_00: You know, but so that was pretty, you know, that wasn't, I mean, it was a hard work.
[06:40] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, I get that.
[06:42] SPEAKER_00: But what's the, I mean, what's the best thing?
[06:45] SPEAKER_00: I mean, is entrepreneurship, I'm sorry to be so mean, but is it a bit of a consolation prize?
[06:52] SPEAKER_00: Or is it, you know, a bit of an enlightenment?
[06:55] SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know, that, that, that kind of thing.
[06:59] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I think that's a great question.
[07:01] SPEAKER_01: And I said myself that I'm a reluctant entrepreneur.
[07:03] SPEAKER_01: So I think it's fair to ask, was this a consolation prize?
[07:08] SPEAKER_01: And whether it's a consolation prize or not, I think that it's a prize.
[07:12] SPEAKER_01: And in terms of what makes being an entrepreneur great, I think that it starts with a vision.
[07:19] SPEAKER_01: Like I truly believe that if you're going to be a successful entrepreneur, you have to have this vision.
[07:25] SPEAKER_01: And you have to have something that you're very passionate about.
[07:27] SPEAKER_01: You think can be made better.
[07:29] SPEAKER_01: And that you think you are the one who can, who can, you know, get in there and make the situation better.
[07:37] SPEAKER_01: And so I think that that connectedness and that idea that you can, you know, live your dream to try and make real something that you deeply believe in.
[07:49] SPEAKER_01: You know, I think that's what makes being an entrepreneur great.
[07:52] SPEAKER_01: And to go back to the baby analogy, like I always say, nobody loves your baby more than you do.
[07:59] SPEAKER_01: And that's where I think as an entrepreneur, you have this opportunity to be deeply connected to the idea.
[08:07] SPEAKER_01: That you want to make happen. And I always say nobody believes it more than you.
[08:11] SPEAKER_01: So your, your spouse will be supportive and your employees will be supportive and your investors will be supportive.
[08:18] SPEAKER_01: But nobody believes it as much as you.
[08:20] SPEAKER_01: And I think that's the way it should be.
[08:23] SPEAKER_00: So you, I mean, you know, as a lawyer, engineer lawyer and worked in a major legal practice.
[08:32] SPEAKER_00: I mean, you have, thank you. You haven't been talking much about your company.
[08:37] SPEAKER_00: But, you know, you're running a company that is, you know, a virtualized legal operation, basically.
[08:46] SPEAKER_00: And I think, you know, we were talking earlier.
[08:49] SPEAKER_00: And I think, you know, maybe covering that a little bit because, you know, with this sort of pandemic in place,
[08:59] SPEAKER_00: apart from the short run side of it, maybe we're seeing very many new business models start to arrive on the planet.
[09:08] SPEAKER_00: I mean, one of the, one of the side benefits of the pandemic is, you know, it's doing wonders for the environment because no one's driving, no one's doing it.
[09:16] SPEAKER_00: But we're all connecting like this on zoom or whichever, you know, zoom's loving because we're stocks through the roof, apart from everything else.
[09:24] SPEAKER_00: You know, maybe you can give some insights in terms of, you know, having worked in that in, in the sort of physical legal environment to the virtual legal environment.
[09:38] SPEAKER_00: And, you know, what kind of, I mean, maybe I don't know what those insights are, but, you know, what kind of steps and what kind of learning you had coming from that to this because, you know, lots of training companies.
[09:52] SPEAKER_00: And it says lots of companies like that that have been perfectly okay doing work focusing on the physical side of it, but this is throwing up something different.
[10:02] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so that's interesting. I'm going to take it on a slightly different tack, but I will deal with the question.
[10:08] SPEAKER_01: And I do think that working in a virtual environment is something that can be, it can be better for the customers and it can be better for the people doing the work.
[10:17] SPEAKER_01: And I do think that the companies who have embraced that kind of a model are really well positioned to help now just because companies like mine and companies like yours were already set up so that pandemic doesn't disrupt us the way it disrupts companies that have a physical location where everyone gathered.
[10:37] SPEAKER_01: We're better set up to transition.
[10:39] SPEAKER_00: It's the hell out of us, but it doesn't disrupt our business.
[10:42] SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes.
[10:44] SPEAKER_01: When I think about traditional law versus the way we're doing it now, certainly one difference is that we're working remotely, but I think it's more fundamental than that.
[10:52] SPEAKER_01: And this goes back to my idea about a vision.
[10:55] SPEAKER_01: My personal view is that the way legal services are being delivered today is fundamentally broken and that it just doesn't offer a great solution, particularly to medium sized companies.
[11:08] SPEAKER_01: I always say that with medium sized companies, I think they've got four options.
[11:14] SPEAKER_01: They can go to a very big law firm, which I think is a bad idea because they're going to pay too much.
[11:20] SPEAKER_01: And the expertise and care that they may believe they're going to get is a bit of a fiction because the big law firms don't really want to work with medium sized company.
[11:32] SPEAKER_01: So the work is going to get pushed down to somebody who may not be as good as what you're paying for.
[11:39] SPEAKER_01: So that's a bad option.
[11:40] SPEAKER_01: You can go down the street and find somebody who is a local practitioner and that's kind of a nice idea.
[11:46] SPEAKER_01: And the challenge is going to be that they don't have the expertise to really help you necessarily.
[11:52] SPEAKER_01: They may be a general practitioner.
[11:53] SPEAKER_01: They may do a lot of consumer focused work like wills or divorces or real estate closing.
[12:00] SPEAKER_01: And they're not really ideally set up to help your business.
[12:02] SPEAKER_01: So that's not a good option.
[12:04] SPEAKER_01: You can do it yourself, which I always say is is a misguided, misguided strategy that you'll be better off to focus on your own business and get support for the things that others can do better and cheaper.
[12:20] SPEAKER_01: Or you can just not do it.
[12:23] SPEAKER_01: And I think none of those options are good.
[12:25] SPEAKER_01: And so when we build CEO law, the idea was not just to work remotely, but to give people a better solution.
[12:32] SPEAKER_01: And so that's where what we've done is we brought people on to the team who were frustrated lawyers who work in the biggest and the best law firms in Canada.
[12:41] SPEAKER_01: And so they've got that experience.
[12:43] SPEAKER_01: We really look for lawyers who have worked in companies on the basis that they can they can connect better with business people because they've walked the mile in your shoes.
[12:51] SPEAKER_01: And I'll tell you that a big law firm is that is not the case.
[12:54] SPEAKER_01: It's lawyers who primarily went from law school to the big firm.
[12:59] SPEAKER_01: And they've had a great legal experience, but they've never worked as a as a business person.
[13:03] SPEAKER_01: So that's a gap.
[13:04] SPEAKER_01: So we address that the price point we address because instead of charging a thousand dollars an hour or more, which is what you'd pay in a big law firm.
[13:12] SPEAKER_01: We're at 200 or 250.
[13:13] SPEAKER_01: So it's a tremendous value proposition.
[13:15] SPEAKER_01: We use technology in a really meaningful way to make the experience of working with lawyers better.
[13:21] SPEAKER_01: And then this is really fundamental.
[13:22] SPEAKER_01: We just try harder to respect the relationship with the customer and to make sure that we exceed expectations.
[13:30] SPEAKER_01: So all of those things I think yes, we're in a non physical location, but it's far more fundamental than that.
[13:36] SPEAKER_01: It's about a real desire to create a better solution for people who need a solution.
[13:43] SPEAKER_00: So I think that's really cool because what you're saying is doesn't really, you know, going virtual is one thing.
[13:50] SPEAKER_00: But at the same time as you go online, you've really got to look at the value proposition that you're presenting online.
[14:01] SPEAKER_00: So if you had the physical business, it isn't just enough, you know, if you're a restaurant, it isn't just enough to offer.
[14:09] SPEAKER_00: You know, your food is takeout.
[14:11] SPEAKER_00: It's, you know, does it suit the takeout experience, for instance, or do we have to change the menu, the takeout menu, because it just doesn't present or deliver as well as that.
[14:26] SPEAKER_00: So, so I think it's not just enough to dive online.
[14:30] SPEAKER_00: You know, you've really got to look at your value proposition and say, is it the same?
[14:36] SPEAKER_00: You know, and I think there's obviously there's lots of our listeners or reviewers are thinking about that.
[14:44] SPEAKER_00: I think they really have to grapple with that value proposition.
[14:50] SPEAKER_00: Okay, let's start to get too tied up with it.
[14:52] SPEAKER_00: I mean, this is about your journey.
[14:54] SPEAKER_00: So, you know, just in terms of lessons and things, and I think that I always think these are really interesting.
[14:59] SPEAKER_00: If you could go back in time, you know, back to Kingston, back to engineering school, what advice would you give your 20 year old self now?
[15:11] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's a great question.
[15:13] SPEAKER_01: I have young children.
[15:14] SPEAKER_01: I have a 16 year old, and so I can maybe think about what advice I would give to him.
[15:19] SPEAKER_01: When I think about my own journey, and it's been meandering for sure, there's nothing I would change,
[15:24] SPEAKER_01: because I really do believe that as you try things, and whether they work or they don't work, or whether it goes as you had thought at might,
[15:31] SPEAKER_01: or whether it goes some other way, it's all really valuable, and you can learn something from that.
[15:37] SPEAKER_01: In terms of the way the world is shaping up, because it's certainly much different than it was when I was young,
[15:42] SPEAKER_01: and I think many of the traditional jobs that people may have pursued when I was a kid are changing,
[15:48] SPEAKER_01: I would say to my son, or to my 20 year old self, to be open, to be open to the new possibilities,
[15:55] SPEAKER_01: and to not have any preconceived ideas of, you know, what's the right career for you?
[16:02] SPEAKER_01: I think particularly now with entrepreneurialism, great opportunities are presenting themselves,
[16:08] SPEAKER_01: and so I would say to be open to those opportunities, and to think about,
[16:13] SPEAKER_01: is there something that you can create, and something that you can build,
[16:17] SPEAKER_01: and certainly not something that I thought of when I was young, you know, I took a traditional path.
[16:22] SPEAKER_01: And I guess the last thing, and this is through the lens of the pandemic,
[16:26] SPEAKER_01: I would say really think hard about how you can help people,
[16:29] SPEAKER_01: and I do think that that's core to every business, every successful business,
[16:33] SPEAKER_01: finds a problem, and then delivers a solution,
[16:38] SPEAKER_01: and I think right now we've got a great opportunity to think, think hard about how you can help,
[16:43] SPEAKER_01: and I think not only will that build a better community,
[16:47] SPEAKER_01: it's also what's at the core of a successful business.
[16:51] SPEAKER_00: I love this question, I mean, I love the answers I get.
[16:55] SPEAKER_00: What's the best piece of advice you've ever received?
[16:59] SPEAKER_01: Wow, that is an interesting one.
[17:02] SPEAKER_01: I guess, you know, when I think back on the story I've been telling,
[17:07] SPEAKER_01: I would say that when people tell you that you will fail, that it's inevitable,
[17:14] SPEAKER_01: that you will fail, that what's really important then is how you respond to that,
[17:20] SPEAKER_01: and how you pick yourself off, and dust yourself off,
[17:25] SPEAKER_01: and I think it's about being relentless,
[17:26] SPEAKER_01: and accepting the fact that yes, you did have a setback,
[17:32] SPEAKER_01: but really focusing on what you're going to do with that.
[17:35] SPEAKER_01: And to me, I think that's great advice for all of us.
[17:39] SPEAKER_01: Maybe right now is a great example, where we're going through a very tough time,
[17:44] SPEAKER_01: but we will get through this, and what we'll take us through it will be helping each other,
[17:49] SPEAKER_01: and getting through it together, and it will also be a spirit that says we refuse,
[17:56] SPEAKER_01: we refuse any other alternative.
[17:58] SPEAKER_01: We will get through this, and you know, that's I think a good lesson for us all.
[18:03] SPEAKER_01: Don't quit. Keeps right.
[18:04] SPEAKER_00: Just some fairly rapid questions here.
[18:07] SPEAKER_00: If you weren't doing what you're doing now, what would you be doing instead?
[18:12] SPEAKER_01: Well, I guess I could be working in a big company.
[18:15] SPEAKER_01: You know, I could go back and practice law.
[18:17] SPEAKER_01: All right, you know, at the moment of truth where you need to find an income,
[18:21] SPEAKER_01: I could go back into traditional business,
[18:24] SPEAKER_01: and I'm glad I'm not doing that, because I think what I'm doing now is far more satisfying for me.
[18:29] SPEAKER_00: In terms of, you know, the book, what books are you currently reading, listening to,
[18:34] SPEAKER_00: and don't get which one?
[18:37] SPEAKER_00: And sometimes that's really useful for people.
[18:40] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's interesting.
[18:41] SPEAKER_01: So I'm not reading it right now, but it's one of my favorite books about business called From Good to Great.
[18:47] SPEAKER_01: And it's something that I have been thinking about, and it's got a great framework
[18:50] SPEAKER_01: for what you do to build a great business.
[18:52] SPEAKER_01: What I've really been thinking about is there's a component in the book that talks about something called the Stockdale Paradox,
[18:58] SPEAKER_01: which is the story of Admiral James Stockdale,
[19:02] SPEAKER_01: and he was the most highly ranked US military person who was a prisoner of war and Vietnam.
[19:09] SPEAKER_01: And Stockdale was asked when he got out.
[19:11] SPEAKER_01: I think he was held as a prisoner for a year or something like that.
[19:16] SPEAKER_01: And he was asked when he got out.
[19:17] SPEAKER_01: And he said, what was the secret for his survival?
[19:20] SPEAKER_01: And he said there were three kinds of people.
[19:22] SPEAKER_01: There were the optimists who said, you know, the cavalry's riding over the hill,
[19:27] SPEAKER_01: and he said, they died first.
[19:32] SPEAKER_01: The second he said, were the pessimists.
[19:35] SPEAKER_01: The people who said, this is awful, this is awful.
[19:37] SPEAKER_01: We're never going to get through this for doom, for doom.
[19:40] SPEAKER_01: And he said, they died second.
[19:42] SPEAKER_01: And the people who survived, the people who could find the right balance between realizing that we're in a tough spot,
[19:50] SPEAKER_01: but they had this great conviction that no matter what we're going to get through this.
[19:55] SPEAKER_01: And so in terms of books, it's a book that I love from a business perspective.
[19:58] SPEAKER_01: And I love it right now, because I think that's what's needed.
[20:02] SPEAKER_00: This balance of the paradox.
[20:05] SPEAKER_00: I know the book, yeah, it's a good one to reread at this point.
[20:09] SPEAKER_00: And I think you're right.
[20:11] SPEAKER_00: You know, a little bit, a little bit, what's your favorite place in the world?
[20:16] SPEAKER_01: Well, you know, I don't have a physical place.
[20:18] SPEAKER_01: It's a, it's a, any place I can be with my family.
[20:21] SPEAKER_01: And so having the people around me, yeah, that's what I need.
[20:27] SPEAKER_01: It's not about whether we're on the beach in some luxurious resort,
[20:31] SPEAKER_01: or we're huddled around the dinner table right now.
[20:34] SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
[20:34] SPEAKER_01: And I do think that is again, a gift that has been given through this,
[20:38] SPEAKER_01: this challenge, this challenging time, that I get to gather around the dinner table
[20:43] SPEAKER_01: with my family.
[20:44] SPEAKER_01: And I cherish that.
[20:47] SPEAKER_00: If you had to pick one word to describe yourself, what would it be and why?
[20:55] SPEAKER_01: Oh, wow.
[20:57] SPEAKER_01: Well, that's a tough one.
[21:01] SPEAKER_01: I mean, I always say failure, you know, and people will say,
[21:05] SPEAKER_01: you got to stop calling yourself a failure.
[21:08] SPEAKER_01: It's, it's people are going to jump to the wrong conclusion.
[21:11] SPEAKER_01: And I say it with kindness to myself.
[21:16] SPEAKER_01: Because I think it's okay.
[21:18] SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, I'm going to use that word.
[21:21] SPEAKER_01: And I don't mean it in a, you know, a derogatory precaution.
[21:25] SPEAKER_01: I think it's a good thing.
[21:27] SPEAKER_01: I think it's a good thing when you, when you have some recognition of the challenges you've faced.
[21:33] SPEAKER_01: And you're a bit humble.
[21:35] SPEAKER_01: And so that's the word I'm going to use.
[21:38] SPEAKER_00: Humble, humble.
[21:40] SPEAKER_00: There's no failure here that I can see.
[21:42] SPEAKER_00: So humbles are better.
[21:44] SPEAKER_00: Okay.
[21:45] SPEAKER_00: And we've got to have one sense of humor in here is the tropical island question.
[21:49] SPEAKER_00: You know, there's a tropical island in the middle of the ocean with only one fond booth
[21:55] SPEAKER_00: and no internet and no people.
[21:57] SPEAKER_00: So it's so, you know, you're in self isolation.
[21:59] SPEAKER_00: So you're okay.
[22:00] SPEAKER_00: We drop you off there.
[22:02] SPEAKER_00: No technology at all.
[22:04] SPEAKER_00: At any time you can use the phone booths on the island and we'll come back and pick you up.
[22:09] SPEAKER_00: How long do you last before making the call?
[22:11] SPEAKER_00: And what would you do until then?
[22:14] SPEAKER_01: Well, that's interesting.
[22:15] SPEAKER_01: I mean, I guess it depends on whether there is some reason why I would want to stay on the island as long as possible.
[22:21] SPEAKER_01: So let's, you know, let's suggest that I would like to stay there as long as possible.
[22:27] SPEAKER_01: That there's some motivation that's preventing me from just picking up the phone immediately.
[22:31] SPEAKER_01: I think I would, you know, I would give it my all to stay and I would try and embrace whatever the idea is that was keeping me there.
[22:39] SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I would be anxious to come back to be with my wife and to be with my kids because I mean it when I say I think that's the best way to spend your time.
[22:50] SPEAKER_01: And the most meaningful thing you're ever going to do in this world.
[22:53] SPEAKER_01: So I would be, I would be eager to get it off the island and to get back to people.
[23:00] SPEAKER_00: Steve, you know, we'll come to the end of the interview and people, you know, listen, they look at this and they often want to contact the people I interview.
[23:10] SPEAKER_00: How can a list of us find you online?
[23:13] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I would say check LinkedIn at Steve's month, STEV E M O N K.
[23:18] SPEAKER_01: I think I've got some different formulation of my name on LinkedIn.
[23:23] SPEAKER_01: But anyways, you should be able to find me.
[23:25] SPEAKER_01: My phone number is 416-712-7838, which happens to be 416-712-STEV.
[23:35] SPEAKER_01: The E of last V doesn't count.
[23:37] SPEAKER_01: So you can reach me that way and I'm happy to have anyone call me at any time.
[23:42] SPEAKER_01: And my email address is Steve at CEO-LawCanada.com.
[23:48] SPEAKER_01: So that's Steve at CEO-LawCanada.com.
[23:52] SPEAKER_01: My Gmail account is again an easy one. It's S-Monk, S-M-O-N-K.
[23:57] SPEAKER_01: And then that's same phone number at Gmail.com.
[23:59] SPEAKER_00: Once again, thanks Steve.
[24:02] SPEAKER_00: Thanks everyone for taking the time today to listen to Toronto's podcast on the Canada's podcast at work.
[24:07] SPEAKER_00: I hope you enjoyed the podcast today.
[24:10] SPEAKER_00: Make sure you sign up for a newsletters or write a review for us on iTunes.
[24:15] SPEAKER_00: You can connect with us on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn or at canvaspodcast.com
[24:20] SPEAKER_00: where you can listen, discover and engage.
[24:24] SPEAKER_00: You can also check out what other entrepreneurs are doing across the country.
[24:28] SPEAKER_00: We'll see you next time.
