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TRANSCRIPTION WITH SPEAKERS
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[00:00] SPEAKER_02: It's Toronto's podcast on the Canada's podcast network.
[00:06] SPEAKER_00: Hi everyone, I'm Phil Bliss of Business Visionary and welcome to Toronto's Podcasts.
[00:11] SPEAKER_00: Part of the Canada's podcast network, your source of the great insights from entrepreneurs
[00:16] SPEAKER_00: across Canada.
[00:18] SPEAKER_00: We're going to be talking to Saif Ajani who is the founder and CEO of Keyhole.
[00:24] SPEAKER_00: Keyhole has been around for 11 years in the social, digital business.
[00:30] SPEAKER_00: The number one company worldwide for hashtag analytics.
[00:34] SPEAKER_00: And I think it's going to be very interesting.
[00:37] SPEAKER_00: So Saif, welcome to Canada's podcast.
[00:40] SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
[00:41] SPEAKER_01: Have me.
[00:41] SPEAKER_01: You're excited to be here.
[00:43] SPEAKER_00: So before we go much further, why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself.
[00:47] SPEAKER_00: You know what you do?
[00:48] SPEAKER_00: How you know how you got here kind of thing.
[00:51] SPEAKER_01: Happy to run a company called Keyhole.
[00:54] SPEAKER_01: We help marketers measure the impact of social media campaigns.
[00:57] SPEAKER_01: We're really one of the pioneers in the area of hashtag analytics.
[01:03] SPEAKER_01: We've been around as Keyhole for 70 years and as the parent company for about 10 or 11.
[01:09] SPEAKER_01: And it really was when the infancy of social media happened.
[01:12] SPEAKER_01: We knew that people were spending a lot of time and effort on social media.
[01:17] SPEAKER_01: And for that, they want to, you know, one, either monetize their efforts or two,
[01:23] SPEAKER_01: measure the impact that they're having.
[01:24] SPEAKER_01: And so we built Keyhole and involved Keyhole through a number of pivots,
[01:29] SPEAKER_01: which are super interesting stories on how we actually ended up Keyhole.
[01:33] SPEAKER_01: And the product that we did.
[01:35] SPEAKER_01: But yeah, through a number of iterations ended up with a product that backed traction and have been growing since then.
[01:43] SPEAKER_01: Today we're about 15 people based out of Toronto Canada.
[01:47] SPEAKER_00: Okay.
[01:47] SPEAKER_00: So, you know, in chatting earlier, you know, you said we were talking about entrepreneurship and people making it on their own versus this and that the next thing.
[02:01] SPEAKER_00: And you probably listen to some, I sort of ask the question around to pronounce wire differently.
[02:07] SPEAKER_00: I mean, I always like kind of on the journey, think about how you got yourself set up.
[02:14] SPEAKER_00: You know, did you know, some people come from entrepreneurial families.
[02:19] SPEAKER_00: So it's natural.
[02:21] SPEAKER_00: Some people do the classic kind of, you know, angel investor VC startup.
[02:28] SPEAKER_00: You know, how did you arrive?
[02:30] SPEAKER_00: I have a safe wire differently.
[02:33] SPEAKER_00: What's your little story on the evolution of diving into your own company?
[02:40] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, look, I think, you know, I believe the way it kind of comes to fruition a lot of times is taking that first step and letting momentum take you forward.
[02:52] SPEAKER_01: Right. And I think what, you know, if you were to ask me what's different about entrepreneurs generally, if disability to take initiative,
[02:58] SPEAKER_01: whether they are within an organization outside, when they see something that is interesting or worth exploring further, taking that initiative to start or try something.
[03:10] SPEAKER_01: And so my solution really came from this idea that I liked and wanted to be an entrepreneur.
[03:17] SPEAKER_01: And even while working or in school, often dabbled in side projects with, you know, with a number of different, with different friends and sometimes alone.
[03:29] SPEAKER_01: And, and what was appealing about entrepreneurship was the flexibility and kind of ownership that came from it.
[03:37] SPEAKER_01: And being a principle, not an agent for a certain function, right, or for a certain purpose.
[03:44] SPEAKER_01: And so when I was away in business school, social media was blowing up and we saw this opportunity that drew parallels to what other people were doing around domain names at the time.
[03:57] SPEAKER_01: So, and so we started a project that when we launched it, we ended up getting some press around it.
[04:06] SPEAKER_01: And, you know, from there, it momentum carried us. So from there, we got lucky and met a couple of people who were quite supportive of us.
[04:14] SPEAKER_01: Some, a couple of early investors who were based out of Toronto, they brought us into a Toronto based program that was not very similar to the white combinators, back in the week where it was a very small program at the time, with small funds, but it was really about the support.
[04:36] SPEAKER_01: And not necessarily just financial support. And so the part is in the program that carried us forward and that helped us evolve. And so it really was part of a lot, part of momentum, but just starting with something and taking it from there.
[04:52] SPEAKER_00: So you kind of, so started to go into it, you know, this is Toronto's podcast, you know, so white Toronto, you went to school in Waterloo.
[05:03] SPEAKER_00: And so maybe that you grew up in the triangle. So just be, you know, what are the benefits of doing business in Toronto?
[05:13] SPEAKER_01: I mean, or could you be anywhere, you know, technically, you know, for business, you could be almost anywhere.
[05:21] SPEAKER_01: But I think the, the evaluation that everyone has to make for themselves is what do they value as a person, other than just business. And so if quality of life is important, there are very few places that are better than Toronto or Canada in general.
[05:40] SPEAKER_01: And so if you want quality, the benefit of place like Toronto or Canada is that you can have amazing quality of life, amazing place to raise your family, amazing time to spend time with friends.
[05:52] SPEAKER_01: But at the same time, not sacrifice any of the things that are important in business.
[05:57] SPEAKER_01: So those resources could be financial, those resources could be human. I mean, the talent that Toronto has is, and you see this a lot more with data science and AI now, the talent that Toronto and Canada have is really unmatched around the world.
[06:14] SPEAKER_00: I think now, certainly, last six years, it's just become amazing.
[06:21] SPEAKER_01: And so if you care about quality of life, which is important to me, you can care about family's quality life, which is important to me, then there are very few places you can be where you can have that while still not sacrificing what you need as resources to build a business.
[06:42] SPEAKER_00: So thinking about the local aspect of it, where do you go to get your best ideas in the city?
[06:53] SPEAKER_00: Where did you get inspired in the city? You know, sometimes you need to leave the office and think.
[06:59] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, very interesting. So Toronto is lucky to have a lot of startup communities and startup hubs.
[07:08] SPEAKER_01: So within the area of entrepreneurship and startups, you know, part of a scale of hub called 111, which is surrounded by businesses that are similar size and growth, growth rate to ours.
[07:24] SPEAKER_01: And so, serenipitous interactions with other founders is certainly quite valuable. There are a number of meetups that we can attend.
[07:35] SPEAKER_01: But beyond that, I think what's interesting, what really kind of makes us think differently, is because Toronto has such a diverse entrepreneurship and business aspect to it, it's not just a tech startup hub.
[07:51] SPEAKER_01: It's not just a financial hub. It's not just a healthcare and health tech hub. It's not just a think tech hub. I think the idea that there are so many different types of people and businesses here, allows us to interact and have, you know, whether it's meeting somebody for lunch, who has come from a completely different sector or just happens to be a friend, but happens to be thinking about a problem in their sector in a different way.
[08:15] SPEAKER_01: And that's where you get a lot of inspiration that is not where you're looking at it, not the blinders on in your own tech space.
[08:24] SPEAKER_01: I think that's where that's one of the benefits of Toronto that I would suggest maybe other people places don't have.
[08:33] SPEAKER_00: So, what's the best thing about being an entrepreneur? Is it the wealth? I mean, genuine. What is it?
[08:41] SPEAKER_01: I think there's two things that really I've found over time to be the benefits. One is this difference of being a principal versus an agent, right?
[08:56] SPEAKER_01: And when you're an entrepreneur, whether you're a consultant, a sole proprietor or consultant, or whether you're running a larger organization, the fact that you have, you're the principle where all problems or yours, but all kind of value that you create, you can feel some ownership or some ownership towards.
[09:21] SPEAKER_01: I think that is quite an emotional benefit that I think it's tough to quantify in many cases, right?
[09:27] SPEAKER_01: And I think that's the difference between like being a kind of consultant versus working in your in a product of services company, rather a product of it.
[09:37] SPEAKER_01: I think the second benefit that I've found is to be honest is the flexibility. I think it's a fun phrase that a lot of people say you're still working, you know, whether it's 60 hours or 40 hours or whatever it is, you're just deciding which 40 or 60 or 80 hours you're working, right?
[09:51] SPEAKER_01: And I think that flexibility allows you to take on other things that are important to you and those other things could be family time, other things could be volunteering, which, which quite, you know, I'm quite passionate about.
[10:06] SPEAKER_01: And so it really comes down to having the flexibility to say, how do you juggle a lot of these things that are important to you in life, rather than being limited to a certain time span, right, or time stole.
[10:23] SPEAKER_00: So in this rather strange economic time, you know, what are you most excited about in your business at the moment?
[10:32] SPEAKER_01: To me, one is that things are constantly changing, right? I mean, in the 11 years or 10, 11 years that I've been in the social media space, in student didn't exist. So in street, I was launched after that.
[10:49] SPEAKER_01: Snapchat came, TikToks here, I mean, it is constantly changing, what's that didn't exist, right? And so one is that is constantly changing. There's always something new that you're learning or trying to help other organizations use leverage and grow it.
[11:09] SPEAKER_01: The second part of it and really, which is the intersection of keyhole is one is the social media aspect and the other is the data aspect being a data analytics company and the data, the abilities of what you can do with data and the availability of data has just made a step change over that time.
[11:28] SPEAKER_01: And so what really excites me is that we're really in the, you know, the cycles of social media come and go, right, depending on different networks and another one will come around soon.
[11:41] SPEAKER_01: But the, but we're really in the early and innings of the data that's available and how to leverage data to the benefit of all types of organizations that don't that don't use it today, right?
[11:53] SPEAKER_01: And so whether it's in social media or elsewhere, I think the data is just, is just so interesting in the digitization of data of information is so interesting.
[12:04] SPEAKER_00: I totally agree with you that we're right there as well.
[12:07] SPEAKER_01: Being in a similar, similar side of things, I mean, there are things that we do as humans day to day that you don't think of as data inputs and data outputs, right?
[12:18] SPEAKER_01: Or you don't think of as technology inputs and outputs, stopping at a red light, right?
[12:23] SPEAKER_01: Cross in street, listening to music.
[12:26] SPEAKER_01: I mean, all of these things, you know, one of the hospital, all of these things we do day to day that today is very much driven by human intuition and past technology past data.
[12:37] SPEAKER_01: But it is so exciting to think about what the next 10 years are going to be when data is a primary driver information, information is a primary driver of how decisions make.
[12:47] SPEAKER_00: Well, we've logged in the way too many secrets, you know, can you give us a bit of a vision of the future of not just not your business necessarily, but the segment of the urine, which is really, you know, the digital kind of marketing slash behavior business.
[13:11] SPEAKER_01: I think I think two things are going to happen that are going to be pretty significant, right?
[13:16] SPEAKER_01: One will add a lot of data and the other will give you more control over data, which in many ways will restrict the data, right?
[13:27] SPEAKER_01: And it's going to be the marriage of these two that the future is going to look like when I talk about adding when there's going to be a lot more data availability out there.
[13:35] SPEAKER_01: I mean, today a lot of information is is proprietary with their owners. So an organization like yours or mine has our own internal data in social media as you know, influencer marketing is really growing up.
[13:53] SPEAKER_01: We work with a ton of influencer agencies who are trying to track campaigns and the impact their influencers are having.
[13:59] SPEAKER_01: And so influencers have their own data about the about the efforts that they're making brands brands and organizations have their own data.
[14:10] SPEAKER_01: And I think what will happen is that it's, you know, what will happen is that that data will start to mix with each other.
[14:17] SPEAKER_01: And so it won't be a lot of proprietary data in that aspect because sharing is beneficial in that case, a lot of data will not remain proprietary.
[14:28] SPEAKER_01: And so whether it's through blockchains, tokenization, a lot of this information or integrate or or integration platforms that act as intermediaries, that data will become a lot more shared, benefiting everybody in that in that group to make good decisions.
[14:47] SPEAKER_01: So I think that that will happen. And I think we'll see new players come in that enabled that.
[14:56] SPEAKER_01: On the flip side, we know privacy is a big concern today and it's going to become a bigger concern.
[15:04] SPEAKER_01: Right.
[15:06] SPEAKER_01: In Canada, we have a policies in Europe, there's GDPR.
[15:10] SPEAKER_01: And so more information will become locked down and very personal.
[15:17] SPEAKER_01: And so what will happen is that it's beneficial to the consumer.
[15:21] SPEAKER_01: So let's say I am a shopper on Amazon.
[15:26] SPEAKER_01: The next time I go to Google, I don't want an app, you know, I might not want an ad for that Amazon product to follow me around through retargeting on Google on other websites.
[15:37] SPEAKER_01: And so I might say, well, I want to lock down and make my information private.
[15:42] SPEAKER_01: So because everybody is going to try and make their information more private because of the benefits that come from it.
[15:50] SPEAKER_01: Organizations, brands, particularly will start building more ways to collect first party data.
[15:59] SPEAKER_01: So where previously you could drop cookies and follow a person around to try and increase sales and such.
[16:06] SPEAKER_01: I think brands will start building first party networks.
[16:10] SPEAKER_01: And what that means is that everybody might create their own social network, whether it looks like a Facebook or not is a question.
[16:17] SPEAKER_01: Right. But it's not unfathomable that Nike comes along and creates their own social network in a data that does the same thing because once you have your own social network, you've got first party, you know, you've got a direct relationship.
[16:30] SPEAKER_01: First party data is just a better way to say you've got a direct relationship with somebody.
[16:34] SPEAKER_01: And if you have an organization, try to have better one on one direct relationship with their consumers.
[16:40] SPEAKER_01: So I see that happening a lot with with the data.
[16:43] SPEAKER_00: That's very interesting. So let's let's let's lighten up a bit, but that's that was great.
[16:50] SPEAKER_00: But having said that. So what are the top three things on, you know, on your bucket list, you know, vision board, whatever you want to go on top my bucket list.
[17:04] SPEAKER_01: Well, I think the first thing that's around the corner, I don't know if it's on my, if it's a bucket list item, but certainly that's going to be top of mind is, is, you know, my family in the expansion of it.
[17:17] SPEAKER_01: We've got, you know, we've got a beautiful young daughter and we're expecting a second child in the next month or so.
[17:23] SPEAKER_01: And so life is going to be quite, quite different than it is today.
[17:28] SPEAKER_01: And so, and so the bucket list item is trying to get through the first, first year with that.
[17:34] SPEAKER_00: That's enough.
[17:37] SPEAKER_00: You know, so I want to move on the challenges because sometimes we learn the most from our challenges, you know, what's been the greatest challenge you've faced as you've been growing the business.
[17:50] SPEAKER_01: I think one of the bigger challenges has been to try and find the right business model for this type of organizations.
[18:00] SPEAKER_01: I think people, people, people think about what makes a good business model a good strategy.
[18:06] SPEAKER_01: And so for us, we are, you know, there are two aspects that come to mind. One is the nature of our business is such that we have a lot of people measure campaigns on social media.
[18:21] SPEAKER_01: And as you know, campaigns come and go projects come and go. I think agencies live that life daily.
[18:25] SPEAKER_01: And so how do we help organizations on an ongoing basis rather than in a time box basis? I think that's been a challenge of ours that we're working towards and I think we're getting better at.
[18:38] SPEAKER_01: The second challenge has been a challenge that's probably true for most companies in our in the social media space, which is that you're quite reliant on decisions made outside your walls.
[18:51] SPEAKER_01: And so the supplier risk in this case is quite high. And so how do you work with in the social network social media space?
[19:04] SPEAKER_01: With the rules that are implemented outside your walls or with the data that's available outside your walls, but still be able to add value to organizations are serving.
[19:12] SPEAKER_01: And so within the organization, obviously, that's those are probably one of the biggest some of the biggest challenges that we faced.
[19:20] SPEAKER_01: But but but as with many things, whether it's finding a way, you know, finding a business to launch, growing a business to the next milestone, there are playbooks and workbooks you work towards. And so for us, it's really about finding the next kind of growth curve that comes from there.
[19:39] SPEAKER_00: So when things aren't going as you expected, how do you deal with it? How do you recommend people handle that kind of situation?
[19:50] SPEAKER_00: Do they throw things at the wall? Do they what do they do?
[19:53] SPEAKER_01: So so three things keep me sane.
[19:56] SPEAKER_01: One one is I've got a fantastic co founder that is the perfect Yang Yang combination.
[20:02] SPEAKER_00: That's great.
[20:03] SPEAKER_01: And that's not just in terms of skill set, which a lot of people talk about, but also in terms of emotional mindset. And so when I'm flying off the walls, he'll be extremely calm and that kind of comes me down.
[20:18] SPEAKER_01: That's an amazing partnership that we've kind of grown into and in many ways locked into.
[20:26] SPEAKER_01: The second I think is is having an amazing team.
[20:32] SPEAKER_01: And again, it's not just about skillset, but it's about personalities. I think we've got a team that like thoroughly, thoroughly enjoys each other's company.
[20:43] SPEAKER_01: It's so much so that they'll hang out with each other, you know, while I would go outside work, go to each other's parties, hang on our weekends.
[20:50] SPEAKER_01: It's really tough to have that personality, that type of team.
[20:55] SPEAKER_01: One of the biggest things that I'd say my co founder and I'm in us are proud of is that we build the team that has this personality, these characteristics, that truly enjoy being around all the time.
[21:08] SPEAKER_01: And so in the worst of days, which we've gone through, the idea that everybody huddles together and has fun huddling together to try and work through a crisis is actually makes it so much easier because we're not trying to solve it ourselves.
[21:26] SPEAKER_01: It's how it's it's this ability to do that. And then the third is knowing through experience that as bad as we think things are, it's probably not that bad.
[21:39] SPEAKER_01: You know, we've gone through crises and come out fine on the other side. It just looked like the end of the world or felt like the end of the world at the time.
[21:47] SPEAKER_01: And so just just the fact that we've gone through these a few times is starting to help us when things are not going our way.
[21:58] SPEAKER_01: And knowing that a week or two or a month from now, things will be better.
[22:06] SPEAKER_00: So that's so thinking in mind, a little bit on the lesson side, if you could go back in time, what advice would you give your 20 year old self or your 22 year old self, probably when you just graduated thinking about moving into entrepreneurship and stuff like that.
[22:27] SPEAKER_01: I would tell I would you know what I would say to myself as a 20 year old is is and probably one of the better advice is that I got is just start. I think a lot of people myself included before they become before they take the leap into entrepreneurship.
[22:50] SPEAKER_01: Worry a lot about whether their idea is the right one.
[22:54] SPEAKER_01: I think they worry a lot about is this product going to be a big product? Is it not going to be able to sell it? Did I get this pixel right? Is this button the right color? What's the name I should give it?
[23:07] SPEAKER_01: What's the name I should give the product or the domain and all this stuff.
[23:11] SPEAKER_01: And the reality is that you know there's a 90 plus percent chance that regardless of which you start with that's not where you're going to end up anyway.
[23:20] SPEAKER_01: But what's important is that we start is that you start and then refine it along the way. I think that's going to be the path to success.
[23:30] SPEAKER_01: So I would say to my 2022 year old self stop thinking so much about whether an idea is the right one is start and evolve.
[23:40] SPEAKER_01: And the second I would say second thing I would say is that you're probably over estimating the risk involved with the startup.
[23:49] SPEAKER_01: I think people over estimate the risk and underestimate the ceiling or and so.
[23:56] SPEAKER_01: Just understanding that the worst case scenarios you're going to be seeing place where you start where you are today.
[24:02] SPEAKER_01: You know with a few kind of wounds to celebrate even if things don't work out.
[24:10] SPEAKER_01: I think I think you should not over estimate the risk and just take a leap.
[24:15] SPEAKER_00: So remove it to the final section the rapid fire section so go at it and you know and don't think too much.
[24:23] SPEAKER_00: Okay.
[24:24] SPEAKER_00: You probably listen to them so you've done something.
[24:27] SPEAKER_00: But if you weren't doing what you were doing now, what would you be doing instead?
[24:33] SPEAKER_01: I would probably be trying to start another startup or trying to build a startup.
[24:39] SPEAKER_01: It may be in a different sector, but I would say my expertise and where I've built a playbook is B2B Internet software that's sufficient based.
[24:53] SPEAKER_01: And so I probably starting another software company that is serving other businesses.
[24:59] SPEAKER_00: Okay. A very popular question of these in terms of listeners.
[25:03] SPEAKER_00: You know what book are you currently reading, listening to whatever and what books would you recommend to our listeners?
[25:12] SPEAKER_01: I'm listening to you never I'm reading never split the difference, which is really about negotiations.
[25:19] SPEAKER_01: The book I recommend consistently is called Playing to Win.
[25:23] SPEAKER_01: I read it once or twice a year.
[25:25] SPEAKER_01: It's not a very popular book, but I found it extremely tactical on how businesses go about developing strategy.
[25:34] SPEAKER_01: I think strategy for a lot of people struggle with because it's a very vague thing.
[25:37] SPEAKER_01: What does it mean to be blue ocean or red ocean or this or that, right?
[25:41] SPEAKER_01: But I think playing to win, which is by the old dean of the University Toronto Business School, who also was a consultant as well as the old, I think, proctor and gamble CEO.
[25:52] SPEAKER_01: They really grow about tangible examples of how to build, build business strategy and how to execute against it.
[26:00] SPEAKER_00: Morning or night person.
[26:03] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I struggle with this question a lot.
[26:06] SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm a night person, but I'm working hard to become a morning person.
[26:11] SPEAKER_01: Because what I found is that it's easier for me to stay up than wake up, but I know that my productivity is a lot better in the morning.
[26:18] SPEAKER_01: So I'm starting to become a morning person.
[26:21] SPEAKER_00: It might become easy with two young kids.
[26:23] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, one of a choice.
[26:27] SPEAKER_00: If you had to pick one word to describe yourself, what would it be?
[26:32] SPEAKER_01: It would be conscientious, I think, for better or for worse.
[26:40] SPEAKER_01: For me, it's quite important to think about the impact we're having on others.
[26:46] SPEAKER_01: And so whether it's the decisions I'm making within the organization and trying to think about how it might impact others in the company, employees and partners, or whether it's the time spent ball and cherry and working with community organizations and having empathy or trying to have empathy for those less fortunate.
[27:08] SPEAKER_01: It's really, I would say that's the word that that comes to mind if I pick one.
[27:12] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's good.
[27:16] SPEAKER_00: What's keeping you up at night, anything or nothing?
[27:21] SPEAKER_01: What's keeping me up at night is is is thoughts around the company.
[27:28] SPEAKER_01: And how to find the next growth curve or the next kind of product to build.
[27:37] SPEAKER_01: I think I think a lot about it. We're lucky to be in a place now where we built a company that is profitable, sustainable, well run with the team that we have.
[27:50] SPEAKER_01: And so in my position, what I'm trying to do is spend less time in and more time on the company and try to figure out where do we go next.
[28:00] SPEAKER_01: And with all the thinking at night, it probably keeps me up at night longer than should.
[28:05] SPEAKER_00: What's your favorite place in the world?
[28:11] SPEAKER_01: Probably sitting by or on the water. It's not a specific body necessarily, but I'm quite attracted to watching water and being around the water.
[28:24] SPEAKER_01: And it's the piece that comes from it, whether it's piece to just online or piece of mind to think, but it's quite appealing.
[28:35] SPEAKER_00: So we're coming to the end here. So I'm just going to sort of say, you know, that's the tropical islands question.
[28:42] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we'll drop you off.
[28:43] SPEAKER_00: Okay. There's only one phone booth. Remember what that was and no internet, no, no, no connectivity apart from that.
[28:55] SPEAKER_00: And you have no technology show that so you're, you know, no phone, nothing like that.
[29:01] SPEAKER_00: You can call and I mean, come and get you.
[29:06] SPEAKER_00: How long do you last?
[29:09] SPEAKER_00: How long do you do?
[29:12] SPEAKER_01: Probably six hours.
[29:15] SPEAKER_01: Enough so that I find piece of mind and quiet, which is so tough to find in the world these days.
[29:26] SPEAKER_01: But I would probably go stir crazy a little bit, anything longer than that.
[29:31] SPEAKER_00: Okay. That's, that's an interesting one.
[29:34] SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
[29:35] SPEAKER_00: Well, you know, thanks, say for coming on. That's really good.
[29:41] SPEAKER_00: I always like at this point, how can people get a hold of you? I mean, you throw some interesting things there and sparks questions.
[29:49] SPEAKER_00: You know, how can people get a hold of it?
[29:52] SPEAKER_01: Yeah. So my Twitter handle is safe underscore a journey or email me.
[29:58] SPEAKER_01: I'd love to hear from you safe at keyhole.co. That's my work email address.
[30:01] SPEAKER_00: Okay. All right. Thanks coming on Candidus podcast.
[30:06] SPEAKER_01: You know, hope to see you again soon. Thanks for having me, Phil. This is amazing. Thank you.
[30:11] SPEAKER_00: Thanks everyone for taking the time today to listen to Toronto's podcast on the Candidus podcast at work.
[30:16] SPEAKER_00: I hope you enjoyed the podcast today.
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[30:24] SPEAKER_00: You can connect with us on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn or at CandidusPodcast.com
[30:30] SPEAKER_00: where you can listen, discover and engage.
[30:33] SPEAKER_00: You can also check out what other entrepreneurs are doing across the country.
[30:37] SPEAKER_00: We'll see you next time.
