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TRANSCRIPTION WITH SPEAKERS
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[00:00] SPEAKER_00: It's Calgary's podcast on the Canada's podcast network.
[00:07] SPEAKER_01: Hello, this is Mario Tonigusi coming to you today with Calgary's podcast, a member of
[00:11] SPEAKER_01: Canada's podcast network, where we talk to the entrepreneurs who are making it happen
[00:17] SPEAKER_01: here in Calgary, Alberta, so you can listen, discover, and engage.
[00:22] SPEAKER_01: Today's guest is Neil Gruninger, who is founder and president of Canoodle TV.
[00:28] SPEAKER_01: Thanks for joining us today, Neil.
[00:30] SPEAKER_01: Thanks, Jeremy Mario.
[00:31] SPEAKER_01: Appreciate it.
[00:32] SPEAKER_01: Well, let's start with just with a simple question, tell me what Canoodle TV is and what
[00:37] SPEAKER_01: it does.
[00:38] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
[00:39] SPEAKER_00: So, in the simplest form, Canoodle TV is a safe streaming video service for kids under
[00:45] SPEAKER_00: 13.
[00:46] SPEAKER_00: It allows them to watch all their favorite shows in the safe environment.
[00:50] SPEAKER_00: And we've really built our name brand within the industry as the leader.
[00:57] SPEAKER_00: And one of the fastest growing children's only focused services in the world.
[01:03] SPEAKER_00: When did you start?
[01:05] SPEAKER_00: We started in 2012.
[01:08] SPEAKER_00: We launched our first, I'd say bootstrap version in 2014 and it was subscription-based
[01:13] SPEAKER_00: service to begin with.
[01:16] SPEAKER_00: And through the years, you know, I could say we've been resurrected.
[01:21] SPEAKER_00: And in 2018, we shifted to an ad-supported model.
[01:27] SPEAKER_00: That kind of, you know, that big shift was back and forth through my business partner,
[01:34] SPEAKER_00: co-founder, Mike Low and I.
[01:37] SPEAKER_00: And we just recognized that in the marketplace, kids were using YouTube to consume other
[01:44] SPEAKER_00: content and it's free, right?
[01:46] SPEAKER_00: So, families in large recognize that they can consume all their content, find all their
[01:53] SPEAKER_00: favorite shows on YouTube.
[01:55] SPEAKER_00: And I think that's kind of that put the precedence of we're not going to pay for content.
[02:00] SPEAKER_00: Whether it's five, we had a $5 subscription fee and, you know, at the end of the day, every
[02:05] SPEAKER_00: dollar counts, no matter what, no matter how much that is.
[02:08] SPEAKER_00: So, once we introduced our ad-supported model, that's kind of when we saw some real success.
[02:13] SPEAKER_00: And ever since then, we've been, you know, gaining a lot of new content, Brenda Business,
[02:20] SPEAKER_00: she is our content officer out in New York.
[02:24] SPEAKER_00: We've expanded globally all within the last year and a half, two years.
[02:29] SPEAKER_00: And now, you know, are the leader in the space when it comes to the children's services online.
[02:36] SPEAKER_01: Can you give me a sense of what your reach has grown to?
[02:39] SPEAKER_00: Well, I can.
[02:41] SPEAKER_00: Well, first off, we're in, we're global, right?
[02:45] SPEAKER_00: We've just came, I just got back from CES and it was by far the best CES we've ever had
[02:50] SPEAKER_00: down in Las Vegas.
[02:52] SPEAKER_00: And it's just because now, you know, as you've seen, everyone's getting into the streaming
[02:57] SPEAKER_00: space and ultimately, the A-bod supported model has become a lot more adopted within the
[03:06] SPEAKER_00: OEM.
[03:07] SPEAKER_00: So, those are original equipment manufacturers.
[03:10] SPEAKER_00: They're looking for new ways to monetize their TVs.
[03:13] SPEAKER_00: And we become that.
[03:14] SPEAKER_00: So, we've signed deals for hundreds of millions of TVs that are connected today.
[03:19] SPEAKER_00: And we're seeing an incredible growth, like I said, I mean, I can get into certain numbers,
[03:25] SPEAKER_00: but we are extremely excited for 2020.
[03:29] SPEAKER_01: Tell me what the future lies for you guys and where your vision is heading into the
[03:36] SPEAKER_01: future.
[03:37] SPEAKER_00: Well, focus is key.
[03:40] SPEAKER_00: You know, we're, we have, and I encourage everyone to get a Roku or a Fire TV and LG,
[03:48] SPEAKER_00: Samsung, we're across all the devices and making sure that that user experience is the best
[03:55] SPEAKER_00: that can be is really kind of what we're focused on to make sure that there's that kid safety
[04:01] SPEAKER_00: side of it.
[04:02] SPEAKER_00: What has happened just recently and this was big news last year, YouTube was fined $177
[04:08] SPEAKER_00: million from the FTC and that was based on their, their legal, I guess, ad targeting
[04:17] SPEAKER_00: practices on YouTube.
[04:19] SPEAKER_00: And so, Kudule TV has always abided by the COPA, which is the children's online Protective
[04:25] SPEAKER_00: Privacy Act that has been around since 1998.
[04:29] SPEAKER_00: And, and so what, what we're excited about is that the players in the game have to
[04:35] SPEAKER_00: now play by the rules.
[04:37] SPEAKER_00: And, and so you're seeing a lot of adoption coming over to safe streaming services like,
[04:42] SPEAKER_00: like ourselves.
[04:44] SPEAKER_00: We actually trademarked the safe streaming name and brand and that's become a real, real
[04:50] SPEAKER_00: key indicator within the marketplace for not just parents and caregivers and kids, but
[04:57] SPEAKER_00: even advertisers and content owners that are that want to be a part of Kudule TV.
[05:01] SPEAKER_00: So really it's, it's a growth side of our service and, and connecting to as many families
[05:07] SPEAKER_00: as possible.
[05:09] SPEAKER_00: And, and not only that, it's, it's getting the advertisers and, and the people that, that
[05:15] SPEAKER_00: want to reach kids in, in a legal fashion in terms of advertisement in, in a safe environment,
[05:21] SPEAKER_00: where they know their brands are not going to be, you know, besides something on YouTube
[05:26] SPEAKER_00: that is inappropriate.
[05:28] SPEAKER_00: So that's, that's really key.
[05:29] SPEAKER_00: That's our, you know, growth.
[05:31] SPEAKER_00: And not only that, just, just sheer volume of content.
[05:35] SPEAKER_00: We're signing, we've signed some very big bands.
[05:37] SPEAKER_00: It's very exciting and, and they'll come out to press releases, you know, we, we have them,
[05:41] SPEAKER_00: coming on on a weekly basis.
[05:43] SPEAKER_00: And, so you'll see a lot more news coming in in your future.
[05:46] SPEAKER_01: What's been the biggest challenge for you as an entrepreneur in getting this business
[05:52] SPEAKER_01: up and running and proceeding, I guess?
[05:54] SPEAKER_00: Well, convincing people that, you know, we have a dream and, and the, the, the biggest,
[06:01] SPEAKER_00: the biggest challenge for us out of the gate was the content acquisition timing of our business
[06:11] SPEAKER_00: was still in the traditional means, right?
[06:13] SPEAKER_00: So, so we were paying big upfronts and costs that, that were today we would never do, right?
[06:20] SPEAKER_00: So that's been the shift and that's been actually one of the best parts of YouTube is,
[06:24] SPEAKER_00: all these big brands had to go on YouTube to find the eyeballs of children.
[06:30] SPEAKER_00: And from that standpoint, those content costs have come down because they're variable now
[06:35] SPEAKER_00: with, with, it's called the CPM, right?
[06:38] SPEAKER_00: So a cost per thousand views.
[06:41] SPEAKER_00: So essentially, they're paying on that.
[06:45] SPEAKER_00: And before it's like broadcast where you're saying, I'm going to buy an episode for this
[06:49] SPEAKER_00: many hours for this many years and, and that costs us, you know, an extreme amount of money.
[06:56] SPEAKER_00: We had to raise a lot of money. So that was really the hard part to start off our company.
[07:00] SPEAKER_00: Typically, you'll see a lot of companies, smaller companies, startups, you know, come up the concept
[07:05] SPEAKER_00: and not having to dish out that much capital to get it off the ground.
[07:09] SPEAKER_00: But we were able to through lots of, you know, friends and family that believed in, in,
[07:14] SPEAKER_00: Mike and myself. And then all the, see getting, getting in some, some, some interesting investors
[07:20] SPEAKER_00: from Dallas, Texas, and they supported, supported us from, you know, the beginning.
[07:26] SPEAKER_00: And some other interesting investors, Tom Chris actually was one of our original investors that
[07:31] SPEAKER_00: is all about keeping kids safe and, and making sure they have, you know, the, the, the, the utmost
[07:38] SPEAKER_00: ability to be who they are as, as a child. And so he believed in the cause as well. So that, you
[07:44] SPEAKER_00: know, in terms of starting that, that was really the challenge was raising the money. And,
[07:50] SPEAKER_00: and moving forward, you know, introducing the product and executing on it. There's always a lot of
[07:55] SPEAKER_00: fun things to get through. But we managed to, to get to this point. So we're so going. That's all
[08:02] SPEAKER_01: matters. So I imagine over the years you've had a number of people obviously give you advice.
[08:08] SPEAKER_01: Is there anything that sticks out in your mind? Is it the best piece of advice you've received?
[08:13] SPEAKER_00: Yeah. Um, well, I would say advice for sure. But in terms of influence, um, my parents, they
[08:22] SPEAKER_00: definitely, they're entrepreneurs. They started, they decided to kind of quit their jobs and
[08:28] SPEAKER_00: started bowling center in left bridge, Alberta. So I'm from one leverage and, um, and I think,
[08:34] SPEAKER_00: you know, growing up in that, in that space, and seeing what my parents had, hard work, they put
[08:39] SPEAKER_00: into it, um, and really, really focused on making sure everyone else had what they needed to survive
[08:47] SPEAKER_00: before they got any of the money. So as I was employees first, business second,
[08:53] SPEAKER_00: on making sure the bowling shoes were sprayed third. And then I guess it, you know, we came last
[08:59] SPEAKER_00: in that sense. But just seeing how, how, you know, incredibly, um, caring they were with their
[09:05] SPEAKER_00: employees, it made them feel like family. And then, and so that's always been something that's,
[09:10] SPEAKER_00: that's driven me is employees of, and everyone that works for us, you know, they have so much,
[09:15] SPEAKER_00: we have respect for them vice versa and work very well with them. Crossbow, we're very, very lucky.
[09:21] SPEAKER_00: We've built an incredible team. We've actually hired 20 people in the last, you know, I would say,
[09:27] SPEAKER_00: six months. So on boarding everyone has been, has been quite the challenge and, and me delegating and
[09:33] SPEAKER_00: starting to build, build upon it is always, you know, you have to hand this off. And it's always been
[09:38] SPEAKER_00: like every single piece of it with the baby of yours, right? And then my grandfather always told me,
[09:43] SPEAKER_00: since I was a kid, so I ran into some troubles back when I was really young. And his advice was,
[09:49] SPEAKER_00: be nice to, or yeah, it's nice to be nice to the nice, right? And, and so yeah, he just,
[09:56] SPEAKER_00: that was always his, his saying is like, hey, if they're, call it a bully, right? Um, then just
[10:02] SPEAKER_00: avoid them and, and, and, and, you know, really work with people that seem to respect you and give
[10:08] SPEAKER_00: them that respect back. And, and I think that's always kind of been one of my, my takeaways from him.
[10:13] SPEAKER_01: Okay, super. I'm going to switch gears a little bit here, asking some more kind of personal type
[10:18] SPEAKER_01: questions. Um, if you weren't doing what you're doing now, what do you think you'd be doing as a
[10:24] SPEAKER_00: job or career? Well, there was a time back when I was a kid where I could have chose the bullying
[10:30] SPEAKER_00: route. And maybe, maybe a professional bowler, there was, that was, that was potential.
[10:37] SPEAKER_00: Are you good at it? I used to be. My little brother's a million times better. He's just a mom.
[10:42] SPEAKER_00: I don't know why he didn't stick with it, but um, you know what? I'm, I'm, I'm pretty fortunate
[10:46] SPEAKER_00: right now that, uh, Kududal has been the success that it has. You know, I just don't see myself
[10:53] SPEAKER_00: really. I'm so passionate about what we're doing that this has been a dream of mine for a long time.
[10:58] SPEAKER_00: And it was, it's always been to get a seat at the table. Um, producing content has been, uh,
[11:04] SPEAKER_00: a dream and, uh, and that's what we get to do now, right? Is we have distribution. We're now,
[11:09] SPEAKER_00: you know, call it a cable company, but globally. And if you think like just one contract that we
[11:15] SPEAKER_00: got from CS, it's a hundred million TVs that are active right now. And that's, that's, you know,
[11:21] SPEAKER_00: I think there's about 12 million, you know, um, homes in Canada at the end of the day, right? It's,
[11:26] SPEAKER_00: it's, it's, it's, it's real scale. So that gives us, you know, a bit of, of leverage to start producing
[11:32] SPEAKER_00: content. And, and that's always been my dream. So the next phase is content, original content,
[11:38] SPEAKER_01: uh, production. Okay. Uh, beyond, uh, the business side of things, uh, is, uh, is there anything that sits
[11:44] SPEAKER_01: atop your bucket list this, uh, these days, I guess, on a personal level? Uh, well, I, I, you know,
[11:51] SPEAKER_00: what, I think maybe I would like to jump out of a plane. I'm not going to lie, but I'm also afraid of heights.
[11:56] SPEAKER_00: So these are things that, uh, you know, I'm, I'm battling with sometimes you wake up to falling
[12:02] SPEAKER_00: out of a plane. So, um, but, uh, you know, uh, traveling the world, you know, getting, getting out
[12:09] SPEAKER_00: there and, and really experiencing new cultures, um, learning, you know, Italian, I'm Italian,
[12:15] SPEAKER_00: my mom's Italian. So I'd love to learn, learn the language, um, and just becoming a little bit more,
[12:21] SPEAKER_00: uh, in, in fall in the community here in Calgary. I'm really excited to be able to bring some of
[12:26] SPEAKER_00: the success back and, and, and work with, with, you know, entrepreneurs, individuals and, and,
[12:31] SPEAKER_01: driven people. If you have to pick one word to describe yourself, what would it be and why?
[12:37] SPEAKER_00: And vicious. Um, and, and I, and I would say it describes the constant battle of just moving
[12:44] SPEAKER_00: forward no matter what, um, I, I try to do everything I can to, to be better, right, on, on a daily
[12:53] SPEAKER_00: basis. And, and so, you know, that July comes from multiple aspects of growing up and learning
[12:59] SPEAKER_00: about yourself. But yeah, I think ambitious. We definitely describe it as that.
[13:03] SPEAKER_01: Okay. Then, and as you prepare yourself each day, like, uh, I'm wondering, do you have a,
[13:09] SPEAKER_00: a regular or normal routine you go through? Uh, yes. Uh, the gym is important to me. Um, I,
[13:17] SPEAKER_00: I've been going to the gym since I was really young. Yeah, going to the gym in the morning,
[13:21] SPEAKER_00: taking that time to, to really kind of reflect on, on the day, trying not to do, like I said,
[13:29] SPEAKER_00: get messages and, and, and be distracted in that sense. Uh, and from there, you know, uh, I like
[13:37] SPEAKER_00: to take the time, obviously, I travel so much, um, that it, it, it becomes, it's hard to keep that
[13:44] SPEAKER_00: routine. Uh, you know, I'm going to be in, in Calgary probably for three weeks in the next three to
[13:51] SPEAKER_00: four months. Um, so there's just so much going on outside of, of Canada, really, that we have to be
[13:58] SPEAKER_00: there. Otherwise, things don't get done. And so yeah, routine going to the gym, um, family,
[14:04] SPEAKER_00: it's taken as much time as I can with family. I go down the left bridge as often as, as they can.
[14:09] SPEAKER_00: My little brother removed to Calgary. So I've been trying to get him to come here for over 10
[14:13] SPEAKER_00: years. He finally is planted his, just here. Um, so trying to spend as much time with friends and
[14:19] SPEAKER_00: family outside of work. Um, because we, we actually have a lot of, a lot of friends that work with
[14:24] SPEAKER_00: us too, which has been a great hire through, through the, all the years of being in Google TV.
[14:29] SPEAKER_00: But, um, yeah, routine, you know, and, and keeping those goals in mind and, and clarity, um,
[14:35] SPEAKER_00: on, on strategizing on a day to day basis. And then, and then obviously envisioning the, the next,
[14:42] SPEAKER_00: the next six to, to six months to, to a year, which if you think about it, normally people look five
[14:48] SPEAKER_00: years ahead, but because of the landscape, where it changes on, on a month to basis.
[14:53] SPEAKER_01: Yeah. So you mentioned travel, uh, travel a lot. Is there any favorite place at, uh, you've been to
[14:59] SPEAKER_00: as late I would say, um, I was in Prague, just recently, and it was just incredible. I, I'm,
[15:07] SPEAKER_00: I'm a sucker for architect and architecture, so I can, and, um, I really, really enjoyed just
[15:14] SPEAKER_00: walking around and looking at what the history, uh, you know, could have been, um, and imagining
[15:20] SPEAKER_00: what, what that would have been like. And, um, uh, south of France, Nice, and, um, as, if you've ever
[15:28] SPEAKER_00: heard of, as before, it's, it's actually Walt Disney lived there for, I think six months.
[15:34] SPEAKER_00: And I'm pretty sure this is where he came up with his, his, um, a storyline of, uh,
[15:40] SPEAKER_00: Pirates of the Caribbean, I swear, because it, it's just, it's an, it's an incredible,
[15:44] SPEAKER_00: credible place to sit down and reflect on, on the world and, and where we've come from.
[15:50] SPEAKER_00: And, um, anywhere overseas, I never got to really explore that. So Barcelona, I've been,
[15:56] SPEAKER_00: I'm going in, in, uh, another month from now, um, for the mobile world congress and, uh, New
[16:02] SPEAKER_01: York, especially as well. Okay. So this is going to be a, kind of an odd ball question for you,
[16:09] SPEAKER_01: and especially for something like you and, and the business that you're in. So if you can imagine,
[16:14] SPEAKER_01: we're going to drop you off and the tropical island in the middle of the ocean, where there is
[16:20] SPEAKER_01: no technology. You're going to be dressed already thinking about this. So there's one foam booth
[16:26] SPEAKER_01: there. Uh, we're going to let you stay there until you give us a call and tell us, hey, come pick me
[16:33] SPEAKER_01: up and take me home. Uh, so two questions. How long would it take you to make that phone call? And
[16:38] SPEAKER_01: what do you think you do while you were there? Well, interesting, interesting. Well, first off,
[16:43] SPEAKER_00: I probably would sleep for like a good week. Just shut my mind off because I can't, I can't even
[16:51] SPEAKER_00: get into the amount of work that has to happen over the next bit. And it's just been ongoing,
[16:55] SPEAKER_00: which is what I'm really excited about, um, to be busy is, is, is better not to be. And, um,
[17:03] SPEAKER_00: so yeah, I would, I would take some time, I think, to, to catch up on that. And, you know, uh,
[17:10] SPEAKER_00: I'll be honest with you, I've never really, I mean, I've gone to the mountains. I've hiked, I love
[17:13] SPEAKER_00: hiking going to the mountains as much as possible and just taking that time to really be a part of,
[17:19] SPEAKER_00: of the, of nature. Uh, that call would probably have to go to my mom because she'd be worried.
[17:25] SPEAKER_00: Just so you know, she hits me all the time, just making sure you're alive. And, and I think, I think
[17:32] SPEAKER_00: after a week would be a long time, I think after a few days, I would start itching to, to, to get,
[17:39] SPEAKER_00: getting contact because I am always connected. And, um, even, I don't really take vacations. I'll
[17:45] SPEAKER_00: be honest with you. I haven't taken, actually, no, let's all I, my parents and the whole family
[17:50] SPEAKER_00: took vacation for the first time in the, in the history of our family two years ago, and we went
[17:55] SPEAKER_00: on a cruise. And that was a nightmare for me. I'd, absolutely, I never could have taken. So, I don't
[18:01] SPEAKER_00: like being like cat, you know, just ship through, come here and do the same thing over. So I, yeah,
[18:07] SPEAKER_00: I would say three to four days, I'd probably make a call and I would, I would let them know, come,
[18:11] SPEAKER_00: join me. And let's, let's hang out. This I went, part of the parking boats and let's go. And,
[18:17] SPEAKER_00: okay. And so yeah, that, that's probably my answer to that. Okay. Well, super well. Thanks
[18:22] SPEAKER_00: joining us today on Calgary's podcast now. Great. Marum, thank you so much for having me and, uh,
[18:28] SPEAKER_01: pleasure, pleasure speaking with you. Thanks for taking the time today to listen to Calgary's
[18:34] SPEAKER_01: podcast on Canada's podcast network. We hope you enjoyed the show today. Make sure you sign up
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