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TRANSCRIPTION WITH SPEAKERS
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[00:00] SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Canada's Podcast.
[00:05] SPEAKER_00: Hello, I'm Mario Tawny-Guzzi, managing editor of Canada's Podcast.
[00:10] SPEAKER_00: Joining me today on Winnipeg's Podcast is Mike Fanat, who is,
[00:14] SPEAKER_00: I guess you could call him a serial entrepreneur.
[00:17] SPEAKER_00: Thanks for joining us today, Mike.
[00:20] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, thanks for having me, man.
[00:21] SPEAKER_00: Well, before we get into the being a serial entrepreneur out there,
[00:26] SPEAKER_00: like, what did you want to do when you grew up?
[00:29] SPEAKER_00: Like, what did you want to be?
[00:31] SPEAKER_00: Not an entrepreneur, I probably think.
[00:33] SPEAKER_02: I just wanted to make money when I was young.
[00:35] SPEAKER_02: I didn't quite understand that.
[00:36] SPEAKER_02: I just, you know, I grew up and we didn't have that much money.
[00:39] SPEAKER_02: So I wanted to make some money in my own.
[00:41] SPEAKER_02: And that started kind of, I guess, entrepreneurial in like the paper route way.
[00:46] SPEAKER_02: And, but I did have a job for a number of years working construction
[00:50] SPEAKER_02: before I got into entrepreneurship.
[00:52] SPEAKER_02: But that point, I was pretty sure I didn't want to have a shovel and a pickaxe in my hand
[00:57] SPEAKER_02: for the rest of my life and do something else.
[00:59] SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
[01:00] SPEAKER_00: And how did that journey start to being an entrepreneur?
[01:04] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, my health changes.
[01:05] SPEAKER_02: So I lost over 100 pounds when I was 18.
[01:08] SPEAKER_02: I was 300 pounds.
[01:09] SPEAKER_02: And the one day said, I'm sick and tired of that and started a whole change in my lifestyle,
[01:15] SPEAKER_02: which I lost over 100 pounds.
[01:16] SPEAKER_02: And that got me interested in hemp seed because of the healthy fats and protein and hemp seed.
[01:22] SPEAKER_02: And we started the business right after that.
[01:25] SPEAKER_02: And that was, that's what got me into entrepreneurship.
[01:28] SPEAKER_00: So when did, like how old were you when you started that business?
[01:32] SPEAKER_02: I was 21 and that was 1998.
[01:38] SPEAKER_02: And, yeah, so fresh.
[01:40] SPEAKER_02: But again, I dropped out of high school when I was 14.
[01:43] SPEAKER_02: And so I already had a good six or seven years of working construction and working different jobs.
[01:49] SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
[01:51] SPEAKER_00: So maybe backtrack for a second, Michael, on that health journey.
[01:56] SPEAKER_00: What triggered that?
[01:57] SPEAKER_00: Like what, you know, was there something?
[02:00] SPEAKER_02: I was literally sick and tired of being sick and tired.
[02:02] SPEAKER_02: I at 300 or 320 pounds, I found myself just, it was, it was painful every day.
[02:09] SPEAKER_02: My body was hurting.
[02:11] SPEAKER_02: I was, I was, I had numb hands and feet.
[02:13] SPEAKER_02: I was getting all these signals of like how bad my diet and lifestyle really were.
[02:18] SPEAKER_02: And I smoked cigarettes at that time.
[02:20] SPEAKER_02: And I just felt crappy and I didn't want to feel crappy anymore.
[02:23] SPEAKER_02: And thankfully, my brother who was older than me,
[02:26] SPEAKER_02: was into fitness already, already himself and helped me out from the weightlifting and going to the gym part of the lifestyle change.
[02:37] SPEAKER_02: But yeah, and just after, after you start rolling and losing some weight and feeling better about yourself,
[02:42] SPEAKER_02: it's, it's, it's easy to continue on and get kind of more and more interested in.
[02:47] SPEAKER_02: And so I just started now 30 years later.
[02:50] SPEAKER_02: This is my 30th anniversary of the start of my journey, actually.
[02:55] SPEAKER_00: What would you, you know, in that vein, what advice would you give people who are on that,
[03:01] SPEAKER_00: who want to start that journey, health journey about what they should do and the mindset that they should have?
[03:08] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think it starts with, it's personal, it's personal reflection first, right?
[03:13] SPEAKER_02: That I'm called mindfulness, but like, where really are you?
[03:16] SPEAKER_02: And I had to realize that I was at rock bottom for me before I was ready to take steps to not be at rock bottom.
[03:23] SPEAKER_02: And I tell people, you know, buildings are all built on a good foundation.
[03:27] SPEAKER_02: But it's okay if you're even starting in the basement.
[03:30] SPEAKER_02: I was starting in the basement.
[03:30] SPEAKER_02: So that mindfulness of like, okay, I'm not in a good space.
[03:35] SPEAKER_02: But then having some healthy examples of like, what is, what is a healthier lifestyle look like?
[03:40] SPEAKER_02: Giving example for me it was instead of chocolate bars and sodas that I liked.
[03:45] SPEAKER_02: I replaced that with a banana and a water.
[03:48] SPEAKER_02: So I'd be out at somewhere 7-11 or whatever when I was, when I was in the 20s.
[03:52] SPEAKER_02: And I would grab a banana and water and I programmed my mind after a number of months that I enjoyed the banana and the water break.
[03:59] SPEAKER_02: You know, it was great.
[04:00] SPEAKER_02: And so I think you need to, you need to take assessment where you are.
[04:04] SPEAKER_02: Look at a good example of what is good look like and then plan your steps to get there.
[04:09] SPEAKER_02: But we control most of our health by what we put in our mouth.
[04:14] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's true.
[04:16] SPEAKER_00: What do you think you learned from that health journey that helped you in the entrepreneurial journey?
[04:24] SPEAKER_02: The biggest thing I learned is that I could, I could be my best self.
[04:29] SPEAKER_02: I could educate myself on what healthy practices were, you know, sleeping good, working out, eating good,
[04:37] SPEAKER_02: meditation and other health exercises to be my best self.
[04:41] SPEAKER_02: That transferred over into business when we started the company is, well, how can we be the best business?
[04:46] SPEAKER_02: How can we be the best hemp food company and what does that look like?
[04:50] SPEAKER_02: And so then I use those same principles to learn what good look like and realize that if we put effort towards getting better,
[04:57] SPEAKER_02: we would get better very much like when we make changes in our health and we start going to gym,
[05:01] SPEAKER_02: we will get stronger with each repetition.
[05:03] SPEAKER_02: Those are the two things that I think of as that are aligned really in personal and professional growth,
[05:10] SPEAKER_02: not only for me, but that opportunities out there for everybody.
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[05:24] SPEAKER_00: Now, you obviously, you know, a lot about health these days and being healthy.
[05:30] SPEAKER_00: How important is that for an entrepreneur?
[05:34] SPEAKER_00: You know, because a lot of them do, you know, don't have time for a lot of stuff because they're working on their business, right?
[05:41] SPEAKER_00: So their health seems to go by the wayside.
[05:46] SPEAKER_02: Yeah. I think that entrepreneurship is really like being an athlete.
[05:50] SPEAKER_02: You know, you have to be in your best form and shape to be the best at the game.
[05:53] SPEAKER_02: So obviously not everyone chooses that, but I'll give you the flip side of that is that saying of,
[05:59] SPEAKER_02: you always got to put your own oxygen mask on first, right?
[06:03] SPEAKER_02: If you don't take care of yourself and you let your health window, you're going to burn out.
[06:07] SPEAKER_02: You're going to have, you know, some other kind of illness that's going to hit you and you do not want that on the flip side.
[06:13] SPEAKER_02: If you're an entrepreneur, you want to be successful.
[06:17] SPEAKER_02: The best way to be successful is train at like an athlete and get prepared to be good in business.
[06:22] SPEAKER_02: Your mind will be sharper.
[06:24] SPEAKER_02: You'll be able to work, you know, more efficiently and deep work in a flow state, maybe even longer hours of the day or weekends.
[06:30] SPEAKER_02: If your business is calling for that time because you're trained and you're physically healthy.
[06:36] SPEAKER_02: So I don't see it as I don't have time for it.
[06:39] SPEAKER_02: Health is fundamental and it's got to be the first couple hours of your scheduling your whole day, right?
[06:46] Speaker UNKNOWN:
[06:46] SPEAKER_02: To eat good and to exercise and to sleep enough.
[06:50] SPEAKER_02: I mean, those are the foundations.
[06:52] SPEAKER_00: Okay. Now going back in time when you first started the first business, what was the biggest challenge you faced?
[07:02] SPEAKER_02: People not believing in us, you know, we were so bleeding edge, not every entrepreneur's business journey is like that.
[07:08] SPEAKER_02: But hemp was brand new to everybody and it was, people were misinformed.
[07:13] SPEAKER_02: They thought hemp was also marijuana, even though their relatives and the cannabis family.
[07:17] SPEAKER_02: So they just, we would go to our first and our first trade show and 80% of the people would just walk by our trade show booth and last, you know, hemp.
[07:26] SPEAKER_02: I don't do that.
[07:26] SPEAKER_02: So it was, it was, we were just so early that we were creating this new market and new industry that we had to put up with the far far majority of people not believing in what we were trying to create.
[07:39] SPEAKER_02: Was being young, an obstacle added to it, you know, I was, I was concerned as a,
[07:46] SPEAKER_02: I was thinking a, early 20s entrepreneur that was, that was marketing hemp.
[07:50] SPEAKER_02: That I was trying to prove that hemp was a product just like any, any other product like hemp seed was like flax seed.
[07:57] SPEAKER_02: And so I had to show up as my best self, but I, I had to, I had to learn the hard way, like to be authentically me because, you know, I, when I first started showing up to some of the first trade shows and business meetings, I wore a suit because I thought, you know, as someone in business that you've
[08:15] SPEAKER_02: been supposed to dress in business. Well, obviously, you know, that's, people have said to me, literally, well, Mike, you're the hemp guy.
[08:21] SPEAKER_02: What are you wearing a suit for?
[08:23] SPEAKER_02: That's a, that's a realization.
[08:25] SPEAKER_02: And when we changed the dress code of the business to be more, and myself, even personally, more like sport casual, which was, we're in the health food business, our athletes and stuff, dress like that.
[08:34] SPEAKER_02: So it was fitting, but I learned a lot about, you know, presentation and form to, for people to take us seriously, which I think it is more important for the younger you are as an entrepreneur.
[08:46] SPEAKER_00: Well, when you started out as a business owner, like, was there any people that you looked up to or for advice to get you along the way, you know, whether there's be personal mentors that you knew or
[09:03] SPEAKER_00: books or business people that you kind of were inspired by?
[09:08] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, both, you know, I, again, I, after a year, it's a couple of years of focusing on my personal health and getting in better shape by reading books and talking to people that were healthy.
[09:20] SPEAKER_02: I took that over to business and said, if I want to be good at business, I need to, I need people to that have done it before to kind of show me what good looks like.
[09:28] SPEAKER_02: And so, whether, you know, and I thought of it even at that time saying, because I was a high school drop-out, but I thought you can go to school as one path to get professors in life, but you can also seek out professors that have something to teach you.
[09:40] SPEAKER_02: And it could be professors or people could say professors or mentors or gurus even depending on, you know, the culture, but yeah, I had some great people like, you know, right when we started the business, Alfonso's UTO at the, at the Manitoba Food Development Center was instrumental.
[09:56] SPEAKER_02: I, I call him the Godfather at Manitoba Harvest because he was the first one to teach us how you make a food product out of the seed and, and where would you source your bottles from and how does labeling work and all these resources, but over the years from zero to building a hundred million dollar business, I just sought out people that I thought that I could learn from both traditional mentorship, but also a lot in, in peer to peer mentorship.
[10:21] SPEAKER_02: And then as you mentioned, you know, even mass mentorship like getting books from certain business entrepreneurs and authors that really had advice that I could study from afar.
[10:32] SPEAKER_02: Any of those authors that you could share that were.
[10:37] SPEAKER_02: One of my favorite books is Jim Collins Good to Great. I think if you're building a business and not everybody takes that approach, you know, of being the highest quality or like the highest standard, but I think it is a very, very strong approach.
[10:51] SPEAKER_02: It's worked well for me in a, in a number of our businesses and I just love that book. I think Jim does a great job of explaining why you want to invest in, in, in better your organization to be the best.
[11:02] SPEAKER_00: Okay. Now, Mike, over the years, how many businesses have you been involved in?
[11:10] SPEAKER_02: Well, my significant one was Man to Behaviors where I grew it zero to a hundred million dollars and then sold it, but I have nine companies in my portfolio now.
[11:19] SPEAKER_02: There were ten, but we sold cuisine. We grew the business four times over the last four years and then we sold it in, in, in 2022.
[11:29] SPEAKER_02: And so right now I'm helping nine entrepreneurs through investment and some of them advising and being a board chairman or advisor to the founders.
[11:40] SPEAKER_00: Now, when you're looking at investing into businesses, what do you look for?
[11:49] SPEAKER_02: Stage of business, I think is, is, is key at first, like I'm, I'm not a startup. I'm an angel investor. So I invest at, at venture growth stage, which is around, you know, maybe five to 10 million in sales and so I usually invest alongside an institutional investment partner.
[12:03] SPEAKER_02: But my investment thesis is quite simple. I like products that I have in my house that I consume on a regular basis. I'm a healthy, minded guy, health natural product food and beverage is a space that I know really well that CPG space.
[12:16] SPEAKER_02: And so I like that type of product. And then it's meeting the founders of those businesses and really hitting it off with the founder, both thinking that they're, you know, smart and, and, and really fitting for the business, but also a fit that I want to hang out with them and have strategy sessions.
[12:33] SPEAKER_02: And build the business with them. If we get those two pieces right or three pieces with the scale, then, you know, I'm looking for a growth potential obviously in good margins and other financials in the business, but those that foundation of right scale, right product and right to founder would be it would be the three for me.
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[13:00] SPEAKER_00: Can you talk a little bit about being an entrepreneur in Winnipeg and in the Manitoba? What's that like and what's the business environment in that city and that province?
[13:13] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think for hey, it depends on what what kind of product you're producing if you're going to be producing a product.
[13:20] SPEAKER_02: But over because there's not a huge market here for some types of products, you know, we're not the biggest city in Canada and.
[13:27] SPEAKER_02: But in saying that Winnipeg is just such a for end Manitoba altogether is such a friendly place to do business.
[13:33] SPEAKER_02: There is a tremendous amount of resources for entrepreneurs from startup to all the different stages of their business.
[13:41] SPEAKER_02: Obviously a big focus there has been for a long time around agriculture and agro food, the agro food industry is just massive here.
[13:48] SPEAKER_02: We're right in the bread basket.
[13:50] SPEAKER_02: We've seen over the last like five or 10 years, the growing other scenes like the tech scene in in in Winnipeg and Manitoba is is well established now.
[14:02] SPEAKER_02: So there's a lot of there's a lot of government grants, government supports nonprofit organizations that can help help entrepreneurs grow and build community.
[14:12] SPEAKER_02: And so that is the key advantage of of founding and having a being an entrepreneur in in a place like Winnipeg Manitoba.
[14:21] SPEAKER_00: Okay, now how old are you by the way?
[14:23] SPEAKER_00: I'm turning 48 this year.
[14:25] SPEAKER_00: Okay, so quite young in the journey.
[14:30] SPEAKER_00: What are your thoughts and plans for the future and what you want to do?
[14:36] SPEAKER_02: You know, since in over the last five years since we sold Manitoba Harvest and I've been setting myself up as a investor board chairman advisor.
[14:48] SPEAKER_02: I'm also, you know, and then my mentorship, which I'm an author creating a community of social following and spreading the entrepreneurship message.
[14:59] SPEAKER_02: I feel like what I've developed over the last five years, I'm really enjoying it and and and hopefully I can be doing the same thing, you know, for the next 40 or 50 years of my life and because I really do.
[15:11] SPEAKER_02: I don't know if I'm fit to operate a business myself, but I really do love helping entrepreneurs grow businesses and be part of the strategy and team building and and especially if it has something to do with making this world a healthier place.
[15:25] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, now, you know, when you you look at the environment out there currently, you know, a lot of challenges, you know, with the economy and costs and inflation, et cetera, et cetera.
[15:36] SPEAKER_00: What does it take for an entrepreneur these days to be successful?
[15:45] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, great question.
[15:48] SPEAKER_02: You know, I and I think as a 25 year entrepreneur that's been through we started the business in the 1998 recession and then we went through, you know, 2008, 2009, 2010.
[15:57] SPEAKER_02: So now I could say I've seen the cycle a couple times. Yeah, but these times, you know, you need to be more strategic than ever. So you're your question on what is an entrepreneur need to really have you need to have a clear strategy for your business.
[16:13] SPEAKER_02: And you need to have the governance for your business to be able to affect that strategy. So, you know, when you're small business and you're startup, that's called working on your business instead of just working in your business.
[16:26] SPEAKER_02: But that's the most critical thing that you need because, you know, you learn insights in your business every day operating and a lot of entrepreneurs, especially smaller ones are that, you know, that are a single team or very small team.
[16:38] SPEAKER_02: Don't take don't realize how important it is to have an annual plan and a strategic plan and budget review that quarterly and like really calendar that time.
[16:46] SPEAKER_02: Take that down into monthly financial review meetings and and then even weekly meetings to look at your KPIs like that's that is just as important or more important.
[16:58] SPEAKER_02: Then going out there and performing, you know, sales and marketing and operations activities in the business.
[17:04] SPEAKER_00: Now Mike, you mentioned your an author and see your hat grow and you know the book you're written. I'm just looking at here 12 unconventional lessons for becoming an unstoppable entrepreneur. There you go.
[17:21] SPEAKER_00: Marketing marketing. So without giving away all 12, what are some of the key points that you're making in this book?
[17:32] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and we've talked through some pieces of it today, but I'd say obviously I go a lot deeper and because the book is my longest form that I've been able to share.
[17:41] SPEAKER_02: But it's it's how you come become your best self, you know, personally, so that you are really prepared for, you know, whether you're embarking on entrepreneurship or you've been a long standing entrepreneur and you realize that you have to be your best self to affect the best in your in your business.
[17:57] SPEAKER_02: Talk about, you know, what kind of business you could be getting into how following your passion.
[18:03] SPEAKER_02: And this is a confusing one for some, you know, say, how do you find your passion? I can unpack that, but following your passion and doing something that you that you're passionate about, which, you know, people say, well, how do you follow your passion?
[18:13] SPEAKER_02: I say simply, what are things you like to do? You know, you can if you can align things that you like to do with what the world needs, then there's an opportunity to to have a business out of it, right?
[18:24] SPEAKER_02: And that could be a lot of that that covers the whole playing field. And so I think that's just a strong approach into business. And then when you have that strong why it's how do you create community around your business in a number of different ways that help help you become a more successful entrepreneur because people are rallying for you.
[18:45] SPEAKER_02: And how do you use mentorship in the forms to grow your business? So, you know, I kind of I kind of walk through the all the ways that I was successful as an entrepreneur over 20 years from start to this all the way to exit, share some stories about that, but really share my strategy and tactics for how people can think about things.
[19:04] SPEAKER_02: And it is it is unconventional, you know, it's not it's not what you're probably going to learn in any university MBA class, you know, coming from my perspective and and but, you know, it's been well received. It's a best seller and it's been helpful to a number of entrepreneurs already. And I just keep on wanting to get the word out there for more to experience it.
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[19:32] SPEAKER_00: So, you know, when you look at say the personality of a person, what does it take, you know, for a person to be a successful entrepreneur?
[19:44] SPEAKER_00: Like not not all the I guess the qualities of a person.
[19:50] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean determined and persistence and grit come to mind, but you know, it there's different ways to win as an entrepreneur depends what your personal strengths are because, you know, in a business, I like to think about it all departmentally, but, you know,
[20:04] SPEAKER_02: in front of the house and back of the house or operations and finance and sales and marketing, these are all things you need to cover in a business.
[20:11] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you can you know, there's very smart entrepreneurs that are financial professionals that know operations they come in, they establish their business on that front, that's their strength, that's the business strength.
[20:21] SPEAKER_02: They need to may learn sales and marketing or or higher sales and marketing people as their first people, but that's coming at that strength. And then you have the flip side of that and many in our industry and the consumer package goods industry that founders are marketing and selling.
[20:35] SPEAKER_02: And then they can create a product because they they wanted in their own lifestyle or they they see an opportunity in the marketplace and then they're going out there to trade shows and to customers selling the product and they need support.
[20:47] SPEAKER_02: You know, on the finance side or on the on the operation side of their business. So I don't think there's one competency to come to entrepreneurship, but I think there is, you know, like you need to know that.
[21:00] SPEAKER_02: Entrepreneurship is hard, you know, it's it's not easy making something out of nothing. And so I think that that that will to to survive in that persistence and and even that discipline is going to serve most people well so they don't give up, you know, like an athlete.
[21:18] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you can't win every game. You can't hit every every pitch, you know, for a hit like how do you as an entrepreneur deal with the the losses with the failure that's going to come your way.
[21:34] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, really, well, the short answer is really quickly, you know, I've learned over the years that.
[21:41] SPEAKER_02: You know, losses we we deem them as losses and sometimes are the losses, but we don't know we really can't say what's good and what's bad for the business because one day something really good happens and we think that's good.
[21:52] SPEAKER_02: That's the end all and it's all positive, but it doesn't turn out to be in the same thing could be for negative, but you know, each a if we think about I like the term winning or learning instead of winning or losing because every time every time that we don't get the goal or we don't we don't get the sale or something happens to us.
[22:08] SPEAKER_02: We made the wrong product. We screwed up in some way. We lost, you know, but we really learned, okay, we need to be better at that and I see I see that analogy too and as well as like athletes in sport, right, like when you when you get knocked down as a fighter, you review the tape, you understand, oh,
[22:26] SPEAKER_02: we hit me from the right like over and over now my plan, my new training plan has to be to protect myself on the right and and realize that and then you go back to practice, you know, you go back to like start an execute again, same thing, it's it's always like if you have that right system of governance, it's like what do we learn from what we just tried.
[22:44] SPEAKER_02: Okay, dust ourselves off get back up another plan together and try again, you know, and and and you do that over and over and over again because I've just learned it's it's not one big win usually or it's it's like a million little wins that add up in business and get a little wins.
[23:01] SPEAKER_02: You may need a million little losses too, you know, that it's just it's just can't let that kill you keep on keep on executing keep on going.
[23:08] SPEAKER_00: How important is it for an entrepreneur to find that I guess interests that are beyond the business itself.
[23:20] SPEAKER_02: I think the pens everyone's a little different I think there's there's the school of the thought of like you need to have a wholesome life if you're going to do it for the long run.
[23:29] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, if someone was creating a business and they were creating a legacy business like they were the sole owner a lot different right you can you could choose a slower growth and so you're you're you're all the rest of your things that you do in life could be fulsome but then there's some entrepreneurs that are that they really see their opportunity in a shorter window or they they want to put it all all in and and someone say they're like out of balance.
[23:54] SPEAKER_02: But they're training themselves to put more of their hours in the day there I see I see both styles of entrepreneurship and and and both are winning but I think if you're going to start to raise money from shareholders you're probably going to go less in the legacy slower business more so to speak balance and a little bit more to the aggressive.
[24:16] SPEAKER_02: We're going to need to like really put our efforts to to growing which takes time you know but ultimately I have an exercise is one of the exercises in the book because I think about it like this way what's your best day ever look like as an entrepreneur as a person what is your best day ever look like like how much do you want us and need to sleep and spend time you know exercising or taking care of yourself what is your work look like how many hours in the day or you really want to work what's your family.
[24:44] SPEAKER_02: You have a lot of time and family commitments and and and and time look like and then what do you do for like learning and and fun and grow up that growing aspect of life you just fill out those buckets for yourself of what your ideals are I think it'll help you in how you determine your setup as an entrepreneur as well you won't get yourself into a situation where if you really want that then construct that you know in whatever you're trying to build.
[25:08] SPEAKER_00: All right super well thanks very much Mike for joining us today.
[25:11] SPEAKER_00: Yeah thanks again for having me.
[25:14] SPEAKER_00: All right that was Mike Fata who's an entrepreneur based out of Winnipeg.
[25:18] SPEAKER_00: I'm Mario Toniguzi managing editor of Canada's podcast today with Winnipeg's podcast. Thanks for joining us.
