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TRANSCRIPTION WITH SPEAKERS
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[00:00] SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Canada's podcast.
[00:06] SPEAKER_00: Hi everybody, I'm Phil Bliss, Founder and CEO of Canada's podcast.
[00:10] SPEAKER_00: Today we're going to meet Mick Lauft, who CEO and co-founder of Schemaar, a Manitoba-based
[00:17] SPEAKER_00: biotech company, and they're on a mission to change how the world prevents, detects and treats
[00:25] SPEAKER_00: type 2 diabetes. Schemaar wants to create a world where type 2 diabetes and the conditions
[00:33] SPEAKER_00: that lead to it can be prevented and reversed through transformative science and by engaging
[00:40] SPEAKER_00: individuals in their own wellness. After nine years, the company and its reshirt have
[00:47] SPEAKER_00: made great strides. So let's find out more. Welcome to Canada's podcast. I think there's
[00:56] SPEAKER_00: going to be some really interesting bits here for people to listen to, so like hang in guys
[01:01] SPEAKER_00: because of some very interesting content. And before we get too deep into the conversation,
[01:07] SPEAKER_00: just tell us a little bit about yourselves, what you're doing and why we're sitting here,
[01:14] SPEAKER_03: talking to each other. Thanks Phil, thanks for giving us a chance to tell the story.
[01:20] SPEAKER_03: So I'm the co-founder and CEO of Siamar. We're a Canadian, a private Canadian biotech that's focused
[01:26] SPEAKER_03: on changing how we understand and treat type 2 diabetes. That's about it.
[01:33] SPEAKER_00: Okay, well, you know, why the heck did you get that? You know, I mean, we know that you're running
[01:43] SPEAKER_00: the company, but there's a bit, some deeper story. There's a bit more to it. Yeah, well, you know,
[01:49] SPEAKER_03: it's funny. We like to say we're a start-up 14 years in the making. So let me take you back to some
[01:54] SPEAKER_03: of the origins there. So I grew up in a household with two university professors. My mother was
[02:00] SPEAKER_03: in professor of sociology, criminology and worked in a number of women focused initiatives
[02:06] SPEAKER_03: in the community, a real role model for social and kind of holistic wellness.
[02:12] SPEAKER_03: And my father, a scientific research, his whole life, you know, basic research, discovery science,
[02:18] SPEAKER_03: and a professor and such. And his focus at the time was on the liver. In fact, his team was responsible
[02:26] SPEAKER_03: for determining the signaling response that allows the liver to regrow if you take a portion on it.
[02:33] SPEAKER_03: Yeah. So that's kind of that was my upbringing in terms of what I listened to at night and everything else, right?
[02:38] SPEAKER_03: And so, you know, I was very focused on community. I wasn't into sciences. I went through school, started a company
[02:46] SPEAKER_03: that worked with Atmrisc youth and did wilderness therapy and adventure-based stuff. I had a kayaking school,
[02:52] SPEAKER_03: a white water kayaking instructor and an expedition member. I still do that to today.
[02:58] SPEAKER_03: And so, you know, and then I started working with, you know, core groups and all kinds of remote communities and stuff on social skills and life.
[03:06] SPEAKER_03: And all kinds of stuff. But it was always there was always a, the entrepreneurial side of me was about finding something that I could contribute and something
[03:13] SPEAKER_03: I was passionate about and then creating something that was missing in order to, you know, contribute. Right. So that's kind of, you know,
[03:20] SPEAKER_03: a couple other businesses later. I, I, I, I, for, I sold those other first businesses on I, it's been over 20 years doing corporate leadership training, development management training and such for a number of different groups and, and on my own banner as well.
[03:34] SPEAKER_03: And then, and then, you know, paying more attention as a young adult to the science that was coming home out of my father's lab and starting to think, oh, this is, you know, I, I got to start focusing here because they're a kid.
[03:47] SPEAKER_03: And your parents come home and they tell you all this stuff. You don't really pay much attention, right. But, you know, he had discovered there's a hormone that's missing for a type 2 diabetic.
[03:56] SPEAKER_03: And he started doing that work to figure out what it was and how it works. And, you know, we were listening to him tell us about these tools that he was developing for the basic science, you know, and realizing like, hey, that's a, that's a diagnostic that you've developed. That's a, that's a preventative nutraceutical.
[04:12] SPEAKER_03: And there's a therapy you've reversed the diabetic state in those in those experiments. And so we started paying more attention and, and so did other people.
[04:21] SPEAKER_03: And as that was happening, if you was starting to work on like, how do we take this to the world, right.
[04:27] SPEAKER_03: And if I'm in that academic perspective, he wanted to just publish it and give it away and tell the world and he thought that would make the difference, right. And that's not how it works. Right. So we started working with some business folks and I was paying attention to that as an entrepreneur.
[04:42] SPEAKER_03: And thinking, yeah, these aren't necessarily the right folks, maybe not the right approach. They don't quite get it. They're not in for the long haul. And so after him hearing me saying that enough time.
[04:52] SPEAKER_03: So I think he kind of put it back on me to say, hey, well, then let's, you know, why don't you take it on. And I'm kind of happy to stop people. Oh my gosh, what have I got myself into it.
[04:59] SPEAKER_03: We decided as a family in 2009 to form Siamar to take this break through science to market and committed to some multi generation project. And boy, we've been heads down since that time. And you know, all kinds of other stories around what the last 14 years of, of, of been like, but that's been our commitment.
[05:20] SPEAKER_03: And that was kind of how we got here and why we started it. And, and feel I think the, you know, important thing for us is in my background, it's not in science.
[05:28] SPEAKER_03: You know, working with at risk youth, working in that wilderness as a tool, working in leadership and training, and community building all kinds of things. I sat on a lot of volunteer boards, founded a few adventure based clubs and such. And, you know, so me, it was about building community and, and health and wellness from up from a real holistic perspective.
[05:48] SPEAKER_03: So when we, when we all came together. And again, with my mother's background, sociologist, technology, you know, the three of us came together and decided for the first five, six years to bootstrap this thing.
[05:59] SPEAKER_03: We came out of from a really different approach. We didn't want to just create a pill or get an indication and sell and move on. We really wanted to just solve the problem. And so we really ingrained that in the core philosophy. So everything we've done since then has been about solving this problem through this break through science.
[06:18] SPEAKER_03: Creating medical interventions that work because currently work, you know, exponential growth, the type of diabetes that medical interventions are not are not effective right now.
[06:26] SPEAKER_03: But also looking at what, why did we get here in the first place? So, you know, what's going on mental health? What about food security? What about, you know, access to care? And so we've really been working with a lot of partners along the way.
[06:38] SPEAKER_03: You know, we keep, we have our commercial path moving forward, but we're really trying to be quite disruptive in in the conversations we're having because it's an urgent, it's an urgent and pressing need. I mean, people should really be quite upset about where we're moving in the direction we're going.
[06:50] SPEAKER_03: If we don't deal with this, it's not sustainable and it's not acceptable. So that's, that's what drives us. That's what drives me. That's how I got really engaged.
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[07:07] SPEAKER_00: But you know, one of the things as I was reading a little bit about about the company is, you know, the family business side of things.
[07:18] SPEAKER_00: But, you know, we bump, I bump into it every so often. But, you know, when you were outside of the family business for a while running your own business, what's different between an entrepreneur in a family business and an entrepreneur, you know, in, not necessarily a sole entrepreneur, but in a business that's not, doesn't have a family attachment.
[07:45] SPEAKER_03: Yeah. So, before I tell you the answer to that, you have to promise that my parents won't listen to this.
[07:51] SPEAKER_03: So, and then I can tell you the truth.
[07:54] SPEAKER_03: No, I mean, it's a great question. And, you know, it's interesting. It's a really interesting question and a dynamic.
[08:01] SPEAKER_03: You know, and when we first started, it was something we were a little shy to talk about because, you know, it doesn't look great. Right. We started a company and you got, you got dad as your two scientific officer.
[08:14] SPEAKER_03: You got mom as a legal consultant strategist. You know, there's a two founders and kind of bootstrapping, you know, paying the bills and then you got this son that's now acting CEO and like, what does he know about science?
[08:25] SPEAKER_03: I mean, but, you know, I'm comfortable with that story because, you know, we, first of all, we've, we've demonstrated we've got an amazing skill set within the family.
[08:35] SPEAKER_03: But more so, you know, when we made those decisions, we made the decisions based on who we really felt were the best people to take on those roles based on the skill sets.
[08:44] SPEAKER_03: Now, I'm fortunate that I come from the family does some pretty amazing folks in it. And I frankly, I think, you know, I get to kind of pull them together and put them in the, you know, in their roles and then stand back and look and do their thing.
[08:56] SPEAKER_03: But interesting, you know, in 2015, I've been talking to my brother in law for years. So this is another extension of the family story. You know, he was, he was brilliant. He was part of Silicon Valley, a startup scene, a responsible for coding a bunch of, you know, a billion dollar projects like literally.
[09:13] SPEAKER_03: And then moved into into some consulting work and, you know, met my sister and moved to Canada.
[09:20] SPEAKER_03: And worked his way up through consulting such and, you know, for years, I kept saying to him, John, you know, I'm going to need you soon. At some point, I'm going to need you to kind of take this to the next level. But not yet. I mean, we got bootstrapping, we got IP to deal with, we got all kinds of stuff to figure out.
[09:33] SPEAKER_03: Right. In 2015, I said, hey, it's time to come over. I need you. And he was running the Pacific coast of IBM, some, some, some large region and some sophisticated.
[09:45] SPEAKER_03: And, you know, he jumped over for a couple of years and joined us with no, you know, no salary, just bootstrapped the same way that we were all doing at the time and, you know, made a commitment to do this work.
[09:54] SPEAKER_03: And again, so it's like, it's crazy because he was a perfect guy for the job. And it wasn't just that I could get him to work for free for a while, but he's brilliant and he's been an incredible contributor as my chief of Elmnosser now.
[10:06] SPEAKER_03: And so, you know, so that was another dynamic. And by that time though, we were quite comfortable. We, you know, we had our science teams back and we had, you know, we, we bring bringing the science folks back and that we, you know, we engage with a variety of real, you know, specialist and a number of areas that we needed.
[10:20] SPEAKER_03: But, you know, the core of the mission was still something that we were kind of hoisting on the shoulders of the family.
[10:27] SPEAKER_03: Right. And we can, we decided this was what we were going to do. And it's a multi generation project. And we understand the science and the mission and we're committed to it. And we're not going to deviate from the values and the mandate that we created for ourselves. And it's interesting. I as well as I look back and say, you know, look at a lot of the, the most successful businesses in Canada.
[10:47] SPEAKER_03: And they're run by families, you know, they're the family origins, you know, and so if you can make it work, it can be fantastic. Right. It can also be incredibly challenging. I, you know, am I surprised me to work. I'm not sure.
[11:02] SPEAKER_03: I'm not necessarily surprised undelighted. And it's been an absolute superpower for us to be able to have these my, you know, my family and those folks in the room, you know, it wasn't that in 2018.
[11:12] SPEAKER_03: When people expected for me, we did an external round of fundraising at the time. And we, you know, we want to kind of move to the next level of organization sophistication and, you know, governance. And so we, you know, set up our board, you'll definitely, and people expected that I was going as a founder.
[11:28] SPEAKER_03: I would take on the role of, you know, president and CEO and all that. And that's not best practice. I think, you know, there needs to be a, you know, a governance structure that, you know, you hold yourself accountable for performance and not, you know, control governance is the same.
[11:42] SPEAKER_03: And so I was looking around thinking about, you know, who the people are in my life that were, you know, the highest kind of governance experts in my life. And guess what?
[11:51] SPEAKER_03: My sister at the time was running a massive overhaul in BC Hydro. And she's a governance expert. And so I thought I'd always said, you know, to her, how am I going to get it involved without having to pay her, you know, her consulting salary.
[12:05] SPEAKER_03: I know we're going to get you to be the chair of the board. And so then I started reporting to her. And it's been absolutely phenomenal to work with people that are committed and passionate, but also the perfect people for those roles. And the family dynamic has not really gotten in the way. I mean, we've had some, we've had to have some conversations and have some role clarity.
[12:24] SPEAKER_03: But, you know, my father and my mother report to me in the corporate structure, right? But yet their founder isn't their board members. So it's very interesting. But we made it work. And it's a, it's part of our, it's part of our strength.
[12:38] SPEAKER_00: What do you see as the biggest challenge you've got in the future?
[12:43] SPEAKER_00: To the next five years.
[12:45] SPEAKER_03: Well, you know, funding is always a challenge when you're when you're changing, challenging a deeply entrenched paradigm in anything.
[12:53] SPEAKER_03: It's, you're often out on the front, you know, the frontier, a kind of on your own pushing against, you know, everyone and pushing pushing a lot of weight forward or carrying a lot of weight forward. And so the funding aspect is is also, you know, really always been a challenge.
[13:08] SPEAKER_03: You know, we've gotten around that by lining ourselves with mission driven investors, very sophisticated individuals, but not in a, you know, venture capital type of structure.
[13:19] SPEAKER_03: Because we need to maintain control and direction of this project for the next, you know, 10, 15 years, if we really want to get, get all the way to completing our mission.
[13:31] SPEAKER_03: So it's been really important to not just take money, but to align ourselves with the appropriate investors. And that's taken longer.
[13:38] SPEAKER_03: But it's allowed us to be successful and stay on track. So that's a, that's a challenge. You know, in these days, the last few years in the markets have been really challenging.
[13:44] SPEAKER_03: You know, in biotech, you're pre revenue for years.
[13:47] SPEAKER_03: You know, you go through your, you go through your pre clinical and then your clinical trials and you, and you move forward and forward. At the end, you get the market and that's, that's great.
[13:55] SPEAKER_03: But for years, your value goes up because you're getting closer closer to these massive, you know, market potential, but you're pre revenue.
[14:02] SPEAKER_03: So it's an interesting place to be. And a lot of funding goes towards growth versus innovation. So anyways, the funding story is always a challenge.
[14:10] SPEAKER_03: I think, you know, and going back to kind of my personal story.
[14:14] SPEAKER_03: I think I've been challenged in the past, really ensuring that I find balance in, in, you know, driving this, you know, personal lifelong mission.
[14:24] SPEAKER_03: But also maintaining focus on the fact that I have a family outside of my, my origin, my family of origin, which includes my parent, my parents and my, my in-laws and my brother, you know, my brother, my sister, my family of origin is all in, right?
[14:40] SPEAKER_03: And, you know, we're burning the boats, right? You know, Maddie can use that term. But I have my, my primary family, my wife and my two sons.
[14:50] SPEAKER_03: I mean, that's an interesting piece because, you know, they kind of get sucked into this entrepreneurial mission. And so that's been a really interesting thing for me to be, try to be more aware of is, how do we maintain balance as entrepreneurs?
[15:03] SPEAKER_03: And, you know, you can't, you can't sign a contract for everybody in your life. If, you know, not everybody wants you to burn the boats. In fact, most people, some of them don't want to go across the city in the first place.
[15:12] SPEAKER_03: So, you know, so it's an, it's an interesting element of, you know, balance and wellness for me. And I think I do a pretty good job of taking care of myself in terms of health and, you know, engaging in the community and spending time outdoors and back kind of stuff, right?
[15:27] SPEAKER_03: But, you know, it's a challenge. And I think it's a challenge for anybody. And it's a challenge for our staff, right? Because we've got people that are, you know, heads down. Everybody's so excited about our mission and getting this out there.
[15:37] SPEAKER_03: But we often make sure that we roll model what we preach about health and wellness from a holistic perspective. So I think those two things are, are important.
[15:45] SPEAKER_03: You know, technology is something that we're actually able to leverage. So that's really not a hindrance, but it's kind of the more human side of things that we have to always keep track of.
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[16:03] SPEAKER_00: You know, family business, just curious what's the best piece of advice you've ever received is from your parents, from someone outside.
[16:13] SPEAKER_00: Not the advice as it relates to business, let's say.
[16:18] SPEAKER_01: Wow.
[16:23] SPEAKER_01: I'm sure you have clarity on what your North Star is, your mission, your vision, and build everything around that, you know.
[16:30] SPEAKER_03: What is your why? You know, that's your mission. And if you've got clarity on that, and it's, and it's important.
[16:36] SPEAKER_03: And it has, you know, valuable impact and will impact other people in a really positive way. I know, you know, all the entrepreneurial.
[16:44] SPEAKER_03: You know, you know, you know, jargon it around, you know, what are your pain points and what solutions are you providing or problems you solving, those type of things.
[16:51] SPEAKER_03: And that's all true. Absolutely. And I think for us really, it's that bigger picture. What are we really trying to change in the world? What are we trying to do?
[16:58] SPEAKER_03: And you know, you don't always have an opportunity to do that as a business owner, right? Or as an entrepreneur.
[17:02] SPEAKER_03: You know, this is why it is so important for us. Like this kind of felt it didn't fall in our lap.
[17:07] SPEAKER_03: So though it was a bit of an accident that happened in the lab that, you know, because he was working on the liver, right?
[17:13] SPEAKER_03: So not the pancreas, not insulin. So he, you know, he didn't expect this to happen. He looked at us. Oh my gosh, this is his thing that no one's, you know, seen before.
[17:20] SPEAKER_03: And so, but, you know, as a, as for myself as an entrepreneur, I looked at this and said, you know, this, this aligns with my values. This aligns with the impact I'm trying to have in the world.
[17:30] SPEAKER_03: And, you know, and individual like we, you know, we're on the front lines. We're collaborating with grassroots initiatives.
[17:37] SPEAKER_03: We're really trying to be out there and be authentic as well as bring products to market that will change the global, the global scene, the healthcare scene, right?
[17:46] SPEAKER_03: So there's not a lot of opportunities in your life where you get to have that. And, you know, that's a hard,
[17:52] SPEAKER_03: uh, to decide to follow. Because it's, it, it's a very, you know, it's a big thing to do. But, I found for myself, it just was something I wasn't willing to, to, to not, pick up and take on.
[18:05] SPEAKER_03: So I think for me, the, the lesson that I've learned over the years, and, you know, I've been told it before. I've told other people before it's reinforced all the time.
[18:14] SPEAKER_03: my team talks about is, you know, figure out very clearly what you're trying to achieve,
[18:20] SPEAKER_03: the impact you're trying to have, the experience you want to have with people when they experience
[18:23] SPEAKER_03: you and interact with you and the long-term vision. And then, align everything you're doing
[18:29] SPEAKER_03: around that. And that will get you through the hard times, that will help guide your decision
[18:34] SPEAKER_03: making when there's ethics involved and everything else. You just take the higher ground all the time,
[18:40] SPEAKER_03: focus on what you're trying to achieve. And that will guide you in every difficult decision
[18:43] SPEAKER_00: as a business owner. Okay, it's interesting. You know, okay, you've been out this one since 2009,
[18:51] SPEAKER_00: but it wasn't your first business. And you've sold, you've built and sold, you know,
[19:00] SPEAKER_00: other businesses. What advice would you give, you know, entrepreneurs, you know, they're at that
[19:10] SPEAKER_00: beginning of the process. You know, they want to start a business.
[19:17] SPEAKER_00: Is there something you've learned in terms of starting the business and maintaining it, if you like,
[19:24] SPEAKER_00: building it? You kind of cover that a little bit, but not from that perspective.
[19:31] SPEAKER_03: I guess I'll take kind of a little threat of my first answer. And then when I was, when I was
[19:38] SPEAKER_03: starting the first business, and part of that, we had been part of or had created like new programs
[19:47] SPEAKER_03: or new opportunities, you know, kind of create something out of nothing. Well, I shouldn't say
[19:51] SPEAKER_03: out of nothing, but you know, we're based on, you know, stand on the shoulders of the person before,
[19:55] SPEAKER_03: you reach a little higher and you bring everybody with you, right? And
[19:59] SPEAKER_03: but I think for me, what it was was like, what is my personal mission? Like, yeah, and that's
[20:04] SPEAKER_03: if that's a mission, same that evolves. I think it should. You kind of go back to it, kind of try to
[20:09] SPEAKER_03: figure out, like, what are you trying to achieve? How are you trying to contribute? Right? What do you
[20:12] SPEAKER_03: want to do? What are you good at? And maybe what are you also the best at or unique at? And if you can
[20:17] SPEAKER_03: align all those things and it's something that you're passionate about at the same time, then that
[20:21] SPEAKER_03: gives you the fuels. Keep going because as a, as an entrepreneur or a business owner, you sure
[20:27] SPEAKER_03: need to be motivated by more than just getting in the door every morning and closing up shop at night
[20:32] SPEAKER_03: and the money that comes in because it's so hard. It's, there's a lot of work and there's a lot of
[20:37] SPEAKER_03: times where, you know, you're putting a lot of risk, you're impacting your, your family, your friends
[20:42] SPEAKER_03: or community, right, your health, your wellbeing, all that. So you have to find something that you're
[20:46] SPEAKER_03: good at, that you're passionate about, that you understand in terms of the impact you're trying to make
[20:51] SPEAKER_03: and it's aligned with your personal mission. Right? And it doesn't have to be something global or
[20:56] SPEAKER_03: or dramatic. I mean, it can be just, it could be that every day you're going to serve a coffee and
[21:03] SPEAKER_03: you want to, you know, make that person's life a little better by, by being happy and supportive
[21:08] SPEAKER_03: and finding something to be complementary about or, or give them the best experience in that
[21:12] SPEAKER_03: five minutes when they're holding that fresh roast and they smell it and the atmosphere you've
[21:16] SPEAKER_03: created. How are that? Whatever that is, right? Take pride in it. But if you decide that's what you
[21:20] SPEAKER_03: want to do, then, you know, you got to, I think you just got to start and start doing it, right?
[21:25] SPEAKER_03: That's the other aspect is I, I hear a lot of people dream, but, you know, the plans that you're
[21:32] SPEAKER_03: necessary to actually execute and then going ahead and taking that first step, those are difficult.
[21:37] SPEAKER_03: And I think people wait till they feel like they are qualified or they know what they're doing or
[21:43] SPEAKER_03: or or it's an, you know, clear path. And I think you just got to take a step and you keep going.
[21:48] SPEAKER_03: I, you know, we take that approach with, you know, conversations that we have been starting and have
[21:54] SPEAKER_03: for years with our indigenous partnerships and looking at what that looks like. I mean, as a,
[21:59] SPEAKER_03: as a corporate entity, we're trying to be role modeling, what we feel is, you know, business,
[22:05] SPEAKER_03: you know, community reconciliation and, and into jobs and those types of philosophies and going,
[22:11] SPEAKER_03: like, what does that even mean? So we're working with those communities to do that and, and we're
[22:15] SPEAKER_03: sticking those steps and, and, and, and try not to make mistakes and we're, you know, being authentic.
[22:19] SPEAKER_03: So I think that's how we need to approach any businesses to be authentic, put your best self forward,
[22:25] SPEAKER_03: have the courage to keep moving forward, be open to learning, right? But focus on like, what are
[22:30] SPEAKER_03: you trying to achieve and then align your skill set and your passion and your resources to doing it?
[22:35] SPEAKER_03: And then you got to keep going. You just put you, you got to keep going, right? And, and, and, and, and
[22:40] SPEAKER_00: it is building a medical enterprise. I'm part of it in Canada. You think the other
[22:48] SPEAKER_00: that it is? Yes. Um, for, well, it makes it hard. What makes it hard?
[22:55] SPEAKER_03: Well, I, I will go back to funding, you know, we're not great at funding innovation.
[23:00] SPEAKER_03: I think there's all choose to find growth. Mm-hmm. But, you know, when you're, when you need to
[23:04] SPEAKER_03: innovate for 10 years or, or 15 years and, and, uh, the life sciences, that's, that's challenging to
[23:10] SPEAKER_03: be. So that's one aspect of it, right? And there hasn't been a lot of money put into, I mean,
[23:14] SPEAKER_03: there has been, but I mean, think it could be spent a little differently. And, and, you know,
[23:18] SPEAKER_03: in terms of research and innovation, that kind of thing, I think there's a disconnect between
[23:22] SPEAKER_03: the academic world and the, in the industry world. There's a real, a real gap there. And so that,
[23:26] SPEAKER_03: I know there are a lot of issues of they're trying to, trying to close that gap, but it's still there
[23:29] SPEAKER_03: absolutely. So if you don't have a skill set yourself on that team, they can, they can, you know,
[23:33] SPEAKER_03: bridge the gap. It's really a sticky place to be. So I think that's a challenging part of it.
[23:38] SPEAKER_03: Um, yeah, I mean, and then I think, you know, part of the, part of the challenges we face is,
[23:47] SPEAKER_03: um, as a, as a Canadian is that sometimes people, you know, are kind of questioning,
[23:53] SPEAKER_03: you know, where you fit in the, in the larger stage, right? So you kind of, kind of come out of,
[23:57] SPEAKER_03: like, when a pig, Manitoba and say, we've got this massive breakthrough. And I've literally had
[24:01] SPEAKER_03: people say, well, they did it to happen in Harvard, it did happen in this other place. And we're
[24:04] SPEAKER_03: saying, well, there's been a tremendous amount of breakthroughs happening in Manitoba. I mean,
[24:08] SPEAKER_03: you, you university Manitoba, you've dealt all these places, right? So there is, there is that part
[24:12] SPEAKER_03: there. Um, and then I think the other thing about Canada is that we've got this really rigorous,
[24:18] SPEAKER_03: um, regulatory process, which is fantastic. Health Canada is, is, is one of the top, you know,
[24:23] SPEAKER_03: in the world. And, you know, for New York City, for example, um, getting a, um, you know,
[24:27] SPEAKER_03: a permit to sell a New York City, a natural product number, it takes, you know, at minimum 12 months,
[24:32] SPEAKER_03: since very rigorous process. So it's a very high bar, uh, which is kind of a moat for competition,
[24:39] SPEAKER_03: right? Which is good. But it's a high high bar, uh, which I like, but it definitely makes it
[24:45] SPEAKER_03: difficult to get there now. What it does though is that people say, if they know that you've been,
[24:49] SPEAKER_03: you know, how to, a green light from health Canada, it opens up a lot more international opportunities.
[24:55] SPEAKER_03: So I don't think it's a, I don't think it's a bad thing. But I think certainly it slows people
[24:59] SPEAKER_03: down and the timeline, like the efficiencies of that, it takes six months to get an approval done
[25:03] SPEAKER_03: on something or it takes another, it takes a year to get some, you know, so I think the timeline
[25:07] SPEAKER_03: can be more efficient. I think the process is rigorous and that's really important.
[25:11] SPEAKER_03: But I think things take a lot of time and there's not a lot of funding that is provided to support
[25:16] SPEAKER_02: your journey. With over 700 episodes and 500 news articles, we are your go-to source for all
[25:22] SPEAKER_02: things entrepreneurship. Canada's podcast.com subscribe now. So, you know, the challenge
[25:31] SPEAKER_01: side of it, the build side of it. Have you developed a process that you step through to overcut
[25:41] SPEAKER_00: teams to get to get round the wall over the wall or whatever, whatever, if you kind of got a
[25:48] SPEAKER_00: process on that, so side of things. You know, for just general, like the big hurdles, like the
[25:54] SPEAKER_03: challenge, as you have all the top five type thing, yeah. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. It's having the
[26:03] SPEAKER_03: right team. You know, for me, that's my superpower is my team. So don't tell everybody that.
[26:13] SPEAKER_03: It's, you know, it's incredible. I mean, I mean, you know, in a lot of ways, that's my role,
[26:20] SPEAKER_03: right? I'm a co-founder and CEO. I mean, my job is to is to bring people together and identify
[26:26] SPEAKER_03: those people that we need to bring in. I mean, we, our foundation is science, but we also
[26:32] SPEAKER_03: have foundation of values and culture, right? And so there's this level of bringing people on
[26:37] SPEAKER_03: fit that, right? And creating that sense of trust in there. And then you can move forward together
[26:42] SPEAKER_03: through those hurdles, right? So you can have that conflict in the house. You can, you can,
[26:47] SPEAKER_03: you can make plans and people stick to it and, you know, people are accountable for their actions,
[26:51] SPEAKER_03: all that kind of thing, right? So there's lots of models that talk about how that works, but for us,
[26:54] SPEAKER_03: it's really daily, right? We understand what our processes are and the roles we play, but it's
[27:01] SPEAKER_03: having the right people. So, you know, one of the things I learned, and this isn't my saying, I've
[27:06] SPEAKER_03: heard it from a number of people, so I'm not going to drop names on it, but the saying around, you
[27:10] SPEAKER_03: know, you know, an A, an A player, a player's A players, right? A B player, high or C players.
[27:17] SPEAKER_03: And the idea with that is that for me, I, I, I, I hope I consider myself an A player. I think I'm,
[27:24] SPEAKER_03: you know, go to what I do. And I certainly hold myself accountable to that level of performance and,
[27:29] SPEAKER_03: and ability, but the trick is that I, that I find people that are, you know, ask
[27:35] SPEAKER_03: you are better at the gaps that I have and bring those on board, right? And then my role is to,
[27:40] SPEAKER_03: is to support them, provide the resources, the guidance, the vision, the structures, and everything
[27:44] SPEAKER_03: else, but then support them and then kind of get out of their way. I mean, obviously there's a,
[27:49] SPEAKER_03: there's a verification side of things, but it has to be some trust. So I think for me, that's
[27:53] SPEAKER_03: really been what's a lot to be so successful, because I've got this amazing team of scientists,
[27:57] SPEAKER_03: and I've got this amazing people of business leaders and business analysts and project managers
[28:01] SPEAKER_03: and branding people, and people that can write creative directors, right? And I've got, you know,
[28:06] SPEAKER_03: it just, and we, and we have investors as well that are aligned with us, right? So people
[28:11] SPEAKER_03: I can call up and say, hey, you know, I have a question about, you know, how shares need to be
[28:16] SPEAKER_03: structured in order to deal with this tax consequence or are going forward with this next round. What do you
[28:21] SPEAKER_03: think? And, and those are all people that have expertise. They bring in contribute because they're all
[28:26] SPEAKER_03: on the team and looking after, you know, our focus in which it's collective success. We're trying
[28:31] SPEAKER_03: to solve a problem. So that newer start brings us together, and then my job is to support that super
[28:37] SPEAKER_03: that super team to play the roles they play, and that's that's I think that that's the that's the
[28:44] SPEAKER_03: trick. It's you bring the right team on board and kind of get out of their way.
[28:48] SPEAKER_00: Great. Let's get on some great insights. The last the last 25 minutes. Let's get some fun
[28:55] SPEAKER_00: that we bring to the end of it. Okay. Just some rapid-far questions. Oh, no. Yeah, I do have some
[29:04] SPEAKER_00: of those. Are you a morning or a night person? Night, I guess. Oh, no, this is going to be really
[29:15] SPEAKER_03: hard. I'm going to overthink everything. I'm more it's like a get up. I haven't been up too late.
[29:19] SPEAKER_03: I'm a morning person. I like mornings better, but I said, okay, I'll try to stay keep it short. Keep
[29:23] SPEAKER_00: you in the next one. If you want doing what you're doing now, what would you be doing instead? And why?
[29:32] SPEAKER_03: More whitewater kayaking. Yeah, that's my that's my that's my kind of my personal my personal
[29:40] SPEAKER_03: passion and taking all the work that it gives me, you know, great great strength and insights.
[29:45] SPEAKER_03: So that's a big part who I am. Whitewater kayaking. If you had to pick one word to describe yourself,
[29:50] SPEAKER_00: what would it be? And again, why would you choose it? One word. Intense. I think I'm pretty focused
[30:04] SPEAKER_03: on the things that I'm doing and kind of like I like challenges and that. So I think intents is
[30:09] SPEAKER_03: is one of the many words that I think I'd like to use. Okay. What book are you currently reading?
[30:15] SPEAKER_03: Oh, I think it's called Beyond the North and it's about a Canadian explorer that is traveling so
[30:22] SPEAKER_03: little across across the territories by canoe. What's keeping up at night?
[30:33] SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
[30:34] SPEAKER_03: Resources always looking after the next layer funding, you know. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's a
[30:40] SPEAKER_03: big thing. It's kind of a it's not going last few years. It's been ongoing. So I think funding
[30:44] SPEAKER_03: and ensuring that we have the resources from my team to do the work that's important.
[30:49] SPEAKER_00: That's good. I think you've answered some really good answers there. So really good insights and
[30:56] SPEAKER_03: but Phil, I was waiting for an answer because when you said it was going to be like a fast
[31:00] SPEAKER_03: the fast question, the first answer came from a mind without even hearing it. I was going to say
[31:04] SPEAKER_03: Led Zeppelin. There's no fit for it. I said, I got it. That's intense too. So that would be right.
[31:12] SPEAKER_03: That's absolutely to be there. Yeah. Well, that's fun. Actually, no, I haven't done a lot of those.
[31:17] SPEAKER_03: I think they're they're quite hard. Yeah, I have more empathy for people now that are asked to
[31:21] SPEAKER_03: those questions. I mean, you know, a few words. That's very difficult. But that's it. It's fun.
[31:25] SPEAKER_00: We'd end it. Thanks. Thanks for the interview. Mick, really, really, really fun interview.
[31:32] SPEAKER_00: How can people get a whole review? Because, you know, they listen, they view it and they hear
[31:37] SPEAKER_03: something and they want to follow up. Absolutely. So I would give two ways. One is go to the website,
[31:44] SPEAKER_03: signbar.ca, that's sci, ma r dot CA. And you can learn all about what we're doing, how to invest,
[31:51] SPEAKER_03: all those types of things. But then if you want to connect with me directly, find me on LinkedIn.
[31:56] SPEAKER_03: Keep it. Yeah. And I love to chat and tell our story and see where we can align and keep all
[32:03] SPEAKER_00: of our collective missions moving forward. Thanks for coming on the canvas podcast.
[32:08] SPEAKER_00: We're in a good session. Thanks for all this. It's been fun.
