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TRANSCRIPTION WITH SPEAKERS
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[00:00] SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Canada's Podcast.
[00:05] SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Canada's Podcast.
[00:09] SPEAKER_01: Great to have you on.
[00:13] SPEAKER_01: You know, as we...
[00:14] SPEAKER_01: I'd really love you to tell us more about your entrepreneurial journey, you know,
[00:22] SPEAKER_01: why you got into it, because based on what I saw in your background,
[00:26] SPEAKER_01: you didn't have to get into it.
[00:27] SPEAKER_01: You know, where it is today, and where you think it might be going to, like, those kind of things.
[00:34] SPEAKER_02: Sure.
[00:35] SPEAKER_00: So, I actually started my career as a lawyer.
[00:41] SPEAKER_00: I went to law school here in Montreal at McGill.
[00:46] SPEAKER_00: And when I graduated, I left for England, worked in study, delivered in England, and worked in the UK.
[00:55] SPEAKER_00: And then I came back.
[00:58] SPEAKER_00: I came back because I wanted to.
[01:00] SPEAKER_00: I was hired a private practice.
[01:02] SPEAKER_00: And I wanted to...
[01:04] SPEAKER_00: I always was attracted by mission-driven organizations.
[01:09] SPEAKER_00: And for me, there was something attractive about joining the public service, actually.
[01:15] SPEAKER_00: So I joined the Department of Justice in the...
[01:18] SPEAKER_00: in the Foreign Affairs portfolio, and spent seven years there.
[01:25] SPEAKER_00: And I left the government not because...
[01:28] SPEAKER_00: I think I think the government does a fantastic job, but I think there's public service that's already dedicated and worked very hard.
[01:36] SPEAKER_00: But I'm the kind of person.
[01:38] SPEAKER_00: And my journey, as we say, is a part of a journey, I would say, of a self-discovery.
[01:43] SPEAKER_00: I've realized over time that I'm the kind of person that wants to see their name on the widget, coming out of the widget factory.
[01:53] SPEAKER_00: And so...
[01:54] SPEAKER_00: And so I...
[01:55] SPEAKER_00: When I went...
[01:56] SPEAKER_00: When I had the government, I went to business school.
[01:58] SPEAKER_00: I was part of...
[01:59] SPEAKER_00: I actually a couple of startups in the early 2010s in the...
[02:02] SPEAKER_00: in the gaming space, actually, in the...
[02:04] SPEAKER_00: in the...
[02:04] SPEAKER_00: in the real...
[02:06] SPEAKER_00: And...
[02:07] SPEAKER_00: And then I...
[02:09] SPEAKER_00: And it was always also...
[02:10] SPEAKER_00: also passionate about real estate.
[02:11] SPEAKER_00: So in parallel, you know, I did make some real estate projects.
[02:14] SPEAKER_00: I even tried to raise a real estate fund in 2011, 2012,
[02:19] SPEAKER_00: which was a really bad time to try to raise a real...
[02:23] SPEAKER_00: And...
[02:24] SPEAKER_00: And...
[02:25] SPEAKER_00: And my wife at the time said, well, you know, that's all nice, but you need to go get yourself a real job.
[02:32] SPEAKER_00: So...
[02:32] SPEAKER_00: So I joined McKinsey, which...
[02:35] SPEAKER_00: which...
[02:36] SPEAKER_00: and spent a couple of years at McKinsey, the consulting firm.
[02:41] SPEAKER_00: Hopefully, hopefully the star of McKinsey hasn't...
[02:43] SPEAKER_00: hasn't been tarnished too much by some of the...
[02:45] SPEAKER_00: some of the articles I read and some of the books that are published these days.
[02:48] SPEAKER_00: But still a phenomenal...
[02:50] SPEAKER_00: a phenomenal organization learned...
[02:51] SPEAKER_00: learned a bunch.
[02:53] SPEAKER_00: And then again, the same itch came back to start my own thing.
[02:58] SPEAKER_00: So...
[02:58] SPEAKER_00: So I actually left the firm and started my own consulting firm.
[03:02] SPEAKER_00: Juniper still exists today.
[03:05] SPEAKER_00: But a former senior partner at McKinsey...
[03:10] SPEAKER_00: gave me a call.
[03:12] SPEAKER_00: And he had been named number two as Sir Giselle,
[03:14] SPEAKER_00: a player that was under...
[03:16] SPEAKER_00: a perfect partnership at the point, TPG.
[03:19] SPEAKER_00: And said, hey, you want to come and join the circus.
[03:21] SPEAKER_00: So it's a little bit hard to say no to joining the circus.
[03:24] SPEAKER_00: So I...
[03:24] SPEAKER_00: when you're a bunch of all over.
[03:26] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
[03:28] SPEAKER_00: I'm...
[03:29] SPEAKER_00: I'm...
[03:29] SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
[03:30] SPEAKER_00: So I joined the circus, basically joining the...
[03:34] SPEAKER_00: you know, a transformation team.
[03:36] SPEAKER_00: And took the lead on many verticals, I would say, in the organization, including the...
[03:43] SPEAKER_00: the...
[03:43] SPEAKER_00: the...
[03:44] SPEAKER_00: the residential division, which is Las Vegas and Orlando and...
[03:48] SPEAKER_00: and the affiliated businesses.
[03:50] SPEAKER_00: And then when the pandemic hit,
[03:53] SPEAKER_00: while we all know that circuit bankrupt.
[03:55] SPEAKER_00: So...
[03:55] SPEAKER_00: So I...
[03:56] SPEAKER_00: I kind of raised my hand as a cost saving and said,
[04:00] SPEAKER_00: let me go...
[04:01] SPEAKER_00: let me go do something else.
[04:02] SPEAKER_00: So like everybody else, the first...
[04:03] SPEAKER_00: the first couple of months of...
[04:05] SPEAKER_00: of the pandemic, I...
[04:07] SPEAKER_00: I...
[04:07] SPEAKER_00: I baked some bread at home and now home school, like...
[04:10] SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
[04:12] SPEAKER_00: But then...
[04:12] SPEAKER_00: but then when...
[04:13] SPEAKER_00: when everybody realized that this thing was going to stick around and that...
[04:16] SPEAKER_00: you know, like an activity need to restart,
[04:18] SPEAKER_00: I started thinking about, you know,
[04:21] SPEAKER_00: what is it that I wanted to do and how do I...
[04:23] SPEAKER_00: how do...
[04:24] SPEAKER_00: what...
[04:24] Speaker UNKNOWN:
[04:25] SPEAKER_00: what's the next chapter going to be?
[04:27] SPEAKER_00: And I always...
[04:28] SPEAKER_00: I always had an entrepreneurial kind of bent.
[04:31] SPEAKER_00: I...
[04:31] SPEAKER_00: I don't think I was the kind of person that was going to start a tech firm in their garage.
[04:36] SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's not...
[04:37] SPEAKER_00: that's not my style.
[04:38] SPEAKER_00: That's not where I was in my...
[04:39] SPEAKER_00: in my journey as well.
[04:41] SPEAKER_00: But I knew a bunch of folks and knew a bunch of folks at Diagram,
[04:44] SPEAKER_00: which is the...
[04:45] SPEAKER_00: the venture builder under...
[04:47] SPEAKER_00: that sits under Portage.
[04:48] SPEAKER_00: Portage of...
[04:49] SPEAKER_00: I don't know if it was...
[04:50] SPEAKER_00: Very large...
[04:52] SPEAKER_00: FinTech fund.
[04:53] SPEAKER_00: And...
[04:54] SPEAKER_00: and Diagram at the time,
[04:56] SPEAKER_00: they were...
[04:57] SPEAKER_00: they were thinking about...
[04:58] SPEAKER_00: about...
[04:59] SPEAKER_00: about...
[04:59] SPEAKER_00: they outward.
[05:00] SPEAKER_00: They had a thesis around...
[05:03] SPEAKER_00: intergenerational wealth transfer.
[05:05] SPEAKER_00: You know, we all know that the largest wealth transfer in human history
[05:07] SPEAKER_00: is going to happen in the next...
[05:09] SPEAKER_00: in the next 25 years.
[05:11] SPEAKER_00: And...
[05:11] SPEAKER_00: and mortality.
[05:12] SPEAKER_00: Mortality will increase, you know, by roughly 40% in the next 20 to 25 years.
[05:17] SPEAKER_00: And they were thinking what...
[05:19] SPEAKER_00: I guess I'm...
[05:19] SPEAKER_00: I guess I'm...
[05:20] SPEAKER_00: I guess I'm proud of that.
[05:21] SPEAKER_00: That's...
[05:21] SPEAKER_01: That's okay.
[05:24] SPEAKER_02: And...
[05:24] SPEAKER_02: And...
[05:25] SPEAKER_00: And arm is...
[05:25] SPEAKER_00: that...
[05:26] SPEAKER_00: That's the life.
[05:27] SPEAKER_00: So...
[05:28] SPEAKER_00: So I think this is something we...
[05:30] SPEAKER_00: we must all face our own mortality.
[05:33] SPEAKER_00: And...
[05:33] SPEAKER_00: and...
[05:34] SPEAKER_00: and the thinking was...
[05:35] SPEAKER_00: and they were looking for...
[05:37] SPEAKER_00: for somebody to...
[05:38] SPEAKER_00: to launch this with a couple of other co-founders.
[05:40] SPEAKER_00: And...
[05:40] SPEAKER_00: and I figured, hey, I'm...
[05:42] SPEAKER_00: I'm...
[05:42] SPEAKER_00: I'm in mid-40s.
[05:44] SPEAKER_00: It's probably, you know,
[05:46] SPEAKER_00: the last chance that I have to jump into a...
[05:49] SPEAKER_00: a tech startup like this.
[05:51] SPEAKER_00: And...
[05:52] SPEAKER_00: and I really fell in love with the...
[05:53] SPEAKER_00: the mission, again, I said earlier,
[05:55] SPEAKER_00: I love mission-driven...
[05:56] SPEAKER_00: driven organization.
[05:57] SPEAKER_00: I think that's...
[05:58] SPEAKER_00: it's very important.
[05:59] SPEAKER_00: I fell in love with the mission of helping...
[06:01] SPEAKER_00: grieving families, helping families actually go through the process of...
[06:04] SPEAKER_00: the state administration.
[06:06] SPEAKER_00: And decided to...
[06:08] SPEAKER_00: to take a leap.
[06:10] SPEAKER_00: Hmm.
[06:11] SPEAKER_02: It's interesting.
[06:13] SPEAKER_02: You know,
[06:16] SPEAKER_02: that's all very well and good.
[06:20] SPEAKER_02: But, you know,
[06:22] SPEAKER_01: how do you...
[06:23] SPEAKER_01: how do you...
[06:24] SPEAKER_01: how do you survive?
[06:25] SPEAKER_01: How do you get the money to get these things going?
[06:30] SPEAKER_01: You know,
[06:30] SPEAKER_01: if someone else is thinking,
[06:31] SPEAKER_01: I've got this, like you said, a mission.
[06:34] SPEAKER_01: I really want to do it.
[06:36] SPEAKER_01: But they don't...
[06:37] SPEAKER_01: I mean, is there some...
[06:40] SPEAKER_01: underlying thing that says,
[06:42] SPEAKER_01: if you do A, B, and C,
[06:45] SPEAKER_01: then the money will come,
[06:47] SPEAKER_01: or is it...
[06:49] SPEAKER_01: put your hands in your pockets and...
[06:52] SPEAKER_00: just...
[06:52] SPEAKER_00: you know, make a run.
[06:54] SPEAKER_00: I think there's different types of businesses.
[06:56] SPEAKER_00: You know, I think...
[06:57] SPEAKER_00: I think...
[06:58] SPEAKER_00: I have a tremendous amount of respect
[07:01] SPEAKER_00: for bootstrap businesses and people that...
[07:03] Speaker UNKNOWN:
[07:04] SPEAKER_00: ...from the ground up and...
[07:07] SPEAKER_00: and grow them.
[07:10] SPEAKER_00: You know, we went the VC route.
[07:12] SPEAKER_00: And so...
[07:12] SPEAKER_00: and so this is a...
[07:14] SPEAKER_00: you know, from...
[07:14] SPEAKER_00: from day one, a VC-backed business.
[07:17] SPEAKER_00: And...
[07:18] SPEAKER_00: and, you know,
[07:20] SPEAKER_00: and...
[07:20] SPEAKER_00: and...
[07:21] SPEAKER_00: there is a...
[07:21] SPEAKER_00: there's a dance in the VC world.
[07:24] SPEAKER_00: You know, you...
[07:25] SPEAKER_00: you...
[07:25] SPEAKER_00: you see...
[07:26] SPEAKER_00: then you see the extension,
[07:27] SPEAKER_00: then you see RSA,
[07:28] SPEAKER_00: then you see your B,
[07:29] SPEAKER_00: and every step...
[07:30] SPEAKER_00: every step of the way,
[07:32] SPEAKER_00: you know,
[07:33] SPEAKER_00: there are certain milestones need to be hit.
[07:36] SPEAKER_00: And...
[07:36] SPEAKER_00: and we are...
[07:38] SPEAKER_00: you know, we've...
[07:39] SPEAKER_00: we've hit those milestones,
[07:40] SPEAKER_00: and then we've got the funding essential.
[07:42] SPEAKER_00: So, I mean,
[07:44] SPEAKER_01: in line with that,
[07:45] SPEAKER_01: I mean,
[07:46] SPEAKER_01: you know, it's...
[07:48] SPEAKER_01: it's a progression.
[07:50] SPEAKER_01: What are your,
[07:51] SPEAKER_01: you know, critical kind of success actions
[07:53] SPEAKER_01: that...
[07:55] SPEAKER_01: because you are progressing very well,
[07:58] SPEAKER_01: that you do...
[08:00] SPEAKER_01: to get from, you know,
[08:02] SPEAKER_01: kick off to, you know,
[08:05] SPEAKER_01: the raise you just did,
[08:06] SPEAKER_01: which is kind of...
[08:09] SPEAKER_01: past VC,
[08:10] SPEAKER_01: to, you know,
[08:12] SPEAKER_01: to market acceptance, basically.
[08:15] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
[08:16] SPEAKER_00: So, I think the...
[08:18] SPEAKER_00: any first step is...
[08:22] SPEAKER_00: you know, the first step is...
[08:23] SPEAKER_00: to develop something,
[08:26] SPEAKER_00: I mean, conceptualize the solution
[08:29] SPEAKER_00: that you're trying to offer to the market,
[08:30] SPEAKER_00: and get it out in the market as quickly as possible.
[08:33] SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's...
[08:34] SPEAKER_00: I think step number one.
[08:36] SPEAKER_00: Step number two is...
[08:38] SPEAKER_00: the idea that you had
[08:39] SPEAKER_00: will most likely be wrong,
[08:43] SPEAKER_00: because we're wrong.
[08:46] SPEAKER_00: Most of the time.
[08:48] SPEAKER_00: And...
[08:49] SPEAKER_00: and iterate,
[08:50] SPEAKER_00: essentially get feedback from the market, iterate.
[08:52] SPEAKER_00: I would say both from a product standpoint,
[08:55] SPEAKER_00: but also from a business model standpoint.
[08:56] SPEAKER_00: I think a lot of people...
[08:58] SPEAKER_00: a lot of people, you know,
[09:00] SPEAKER_00: discount the fact that...
[09:03] SPEAKER_00: iteration in a startup
[09:04] SPEAKER_00: is both from a product standpoint,
[09:06] SPEAKER_00: but also from a business model standpoint.
[09:08] SPEAKER_00: Like, it's...
[09:08] SPEAKER_00: you know, you...
[09:09] SPEAKER_00: the business model that I had, you know,
[09:11] SPEAKER_00: day one is not the business model that I have today,
[09:13] SPEAKER_00: and it's probably not the business model that I'll have, you know,
[09:16] SPEAKER_00: five years from now.
[09:18] SPEAKER_00: So, you know,
[09:20] SPEAKER_00: how do you make money, essentially?
[09:23] SPEAKER_00: And so, we did that.
[09:24] SPEAKER_00: We went pretty quickly to the market.
[09:27] SPEAKER_00: I mean, we started a company in November 2020,
[09:31] SPEAKER_00: and we're in the market by March 2021.
[09:36] SPEAKER_00: And...
[09:36] SPEAKER_00: Pretty good.
[09:37] SPEAKER_00: And the advice that I have to people...
[09:39] SPEAKER_00: people is like,
[09:40] SPEAKER_00: you should be ashamed of the product you put out in the market,
[09:42] SPEAKER_00: because...
[09:43] SPEAKER_00: because if you're not ashamed of it,
[09:46] SPEAKER_00: that means you waited too long.
[09:50] SPEAKER_00: And so...
[09:50] SPEAKER_00: And then the market teaches you things,
[09:52] SPEAKER_00: and the market teaches you what it really wants.
[09:55] SPEAKER_00: And then that process of iteration is ongoing.
[09:58] SPEAKER_00: I was...
[09:58] SPEAKER_00: we're not...
[09:59] SPEAKER_00: we're not finished yet.
[09:59] SPEAKER_00: What we've proven up until now is number one.
[10:03] SPEAKER_00: We've proven that we can...
[10:05] SPEAKER_00: we can serve.
[10:06] SPEAKER_00: We can actually do the work of a state administration and state planning,
[10:09] SPEAKER_00: which people did not think we were capable of doing two years ago.
[10:13] SPEAKER_00: We lose our money,
[10:14] SPEAKER_00: we lose our banks, we lose our good-see-all-advisors,
[10:16] SPEAKER_00: and we tell them,
[10:17] SPEAKER_00: hey, we have a solution for you.
[10:19] SPEAKER_00: And they told us,
[10:20] SPEAKER_00: you know, you'll never be able to do it.
[10:22] SPEAKER_00: It's too complicated.
[10:23] SPEAKER_00: It's too big, too complicated.
[10:24] SPEAKER_00: It's too complex, too obscure, too many rules, too many...
[10:27] SPEAKER_00: you know, too many...
[10:27] SPEAKER_00: too many things that are not scalable.
[10:33] SPEAKER_00: And I would say that,
[10:35] SPEAKER_00: you know, two years later,
[10:37] SPEAKER_00: what we've proven is...
[10:38] SPEAKER_00: number one, we can do the work.
[10:40] SPEAKER_00: Clients are satisfied.
[10:43] SPEAKER_00: And we can actually sell to an ultimate client.
[10:45] SPEAKER_00: We can sell BTC.
[10:47] SPEAKER_00: We can sell to an end consumer.
[10:49] SPEAKER_00: What we still have yet to demonstrate in the future is that
[10:53] SPEAKER_00: we can actually build new channels that are not BTC channels.
[10:58] SPEAKER_00: I think one of the big trends right now
[11:00] SPEAKER_00: that everybody is seeing in Fintech
[11:02] SPEAKER_00: is that BTC is very, very expensive
[11:06] SPEAKER_00: from a cost of acquisition standpoint.
[11:10] SPEAKER_00: And therefore,
[11:10] SPEAKER_00: and therefore all Fintechs,
[11:13] SPEAKER_00: all BTC Fintechs are actually trying to build
[11:17] SPEAKER_00: BTC business models in order to piggyback on existing channels.
[11:23] SPEAKER_00: And that is the transition that we have yet to do.
[11:27] SPEAKER_00: Or yet to do.
[11:28] SPEAKER_00: We are on the process of doing it.
[11:30] SPEAKER_00: We've announced a couple of big partnerships out there.
[11:32] SPEAKER_00: But we're still in the process.
[11:33] SPEAKER_00: I would say of transitioning our business from a BTC
[11:36] SPEAKER_00: to a BTC model.
[11:40] SPEAKER_00: And, you know,
[11:40] SPEAKER_00: the raise and the series A raise was phenomenal.
[11:44] SPEAKER_00: But it was also based on the fact that, you know,
[11:47] SPEAKER_00: we've proven that we can do the work both in Canada and the US.
[11:50] SPEAKER_00: And I think that a lot of what a lot of kidney and Fintechs
[11:56] SPEAKER_00: or kidney startups in general have had a hard time actually penetrating the US market.
[12:03] SPEAKER_00: And we've actually proven that we can acquire customers in the US and serve customers in the US,
[12:07] SPEAKER_00: which is pretty unique.
[12:09] SPEAKER_00: So the very part of what we've accomplished,
[12:10] SPEAKER_00: but again,
[12:11] SPEAKER_00: what's a lot to do?
[12:13] SPEAKER_01: Are you weird?
[12:14] SPEAKER_01: Like lots of entrepreneurs have to be wired differently.
[12:18] SPEAKER_01: Do you operate differently than some of the peers you went to school with,
[12:23] SPEAKER_01: you practiced low with, et cetera, et cetera?
[12:26] SPEAKER_00: I would say that.
[12:28] SPEAKER_00: I think there's different types of entrepreneurs.
[12:31] SPEAKER_00: I think there's the, you know,
[12:33] SPEAKER_00: and I think we tend to idealize the Elon Musk,
[12:36] SPEAKER_00: so the world and some of the other characters.
[12:40] SPEAKER_00: I know, I don't idealize.
[12:42] SPEAKER_00: Sorry.
[12:44] SPEAKER_00: I was an idealize.
[12:47] SPEAKER_00: So there's the persona of the, of the, of the, the eccentric founder out there.
[12:54] SPEAKER_00: I think what, what, what, you know, when I meet entrepreneurs today,
[12:57] SPEAKER_00: you know, I was at a conference at Fintech Forum past two days here in Montreal.
[13:02] SPEAKER_00: We're going to have a,
[13:03] SPEAKER_00: a management,
[13:04] SPEAKER_00: a bunch of Fintech entrepreneurs.
[13:07] SPEAKER_00: Most of them are not,
[13:08] SPEAKER_00: are not, are not, I mean, maybe there weren't a little differently.
[13:12] SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think they're, these perceive a risk in a, in a different way.
[13:16] SPEAKER_00: I would say that, then, then, then, son of my colleagues or some of the people that I, you know,
[13:20] SPEAKER_00: I think, I think, I think they, they, they approach the, the journey a little bit differently.
[13:26] SPEAKER_00: But what I'm seeing is that, that, you know, I, so I was having lunch with the,
[13:30] SPEAKER_00: I'm at a, from Nesto today.
[13:32] SPEAKER_00: You know, many, I think spend 20 years at Couset, you know, in a big agency.
[13:35] SPEAKER_00: And now, and now is running, basically, one of the, you know, or, or, or,
[13:43] SPEAKER_00: a fantastically fast growing, you know, mortgage business.
[13:48] SPEAKER_00: And, and, and so he was capable of doing the switch from, you know,
[13:53] SPEAKER_00: big agency to, to, to, to Fintech startup.
[13:57] SPEAKER_00: Is he wired differently?
[13:58] SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
[13:59] SPEAKER_00: Maybe, but he's, is he a complete outlier?
[14:02] SPEAKER_00: I, I don't think so. I think I think everybody, everybody can find the way or, or those,
[14:07] SPEAKER_00: there's probably a right time and a right place for everybody to show their entrepreneurial spirit.
[14:14] SPEAKER_02: You know, if you could go back in time, what would you, you know,
[14:22] SPEAKER_02: what would you tell yourself when you're beginning things?
[14:26] SPEAKER_02: What would you do differently?
[14:28] SPEAKER_02: It's a very, very good question.
[14:31] SPEAKER_00: I'm not sure what would become a lawyer.
[14:37] SPEAKER_00: I think, I think, you know, I, I, you know, I come from an immigrant family.
[14:42] SPEAKER_00: My, my father was Italian. I think, I think there's, for a lot of immigrants,
[14:47] SPEAKER_00: there's a lot of the decision making that's made around finances and around risk and
[14:56] SPEAKER_00: around entrepreneurship are actually very fear based, you know, immigrants of,
[15:01] SPEAKER_00: you know, and immigrant parents very, very often pass on this, this, this, this,
[15:09] SPEAKER_00: this fear of the future. I mean, so if you leave everything and you come to this country and you build something,
[15:15] SPEAKER_00: you know, you've lived to having nothing.
[15:17] SPEAKER_00: And what you pass on to your kids is, you know,
[15:21] SPEAKER_00: and, you know,
[15:23] SPEAKER_00: that's what would be passed on to your kids is, is, is, is, you know,
[15:28] SPEAKER_00: I've known having nothing. And therefore, you should always think about the fact that
[15:33] SPEAKER_00: there's a tremendous amount of pain in having nothing.
[15:37] SPEAKER_00: And I find that, and I, and, and if I were to go back to my younger self,
[15:41] SPEAKER_00: I would say, you know, there is no need for that much fear.
[15:47] SPEAKER_00: I mean, the universe does provide in the end, you know, people,
[15:50] SPEAKER_00: really good.
[15:52] SPEAKER_00: And, and, and, and I think there's, and that would have allowed me, I would say to you,
[15:56] SPEAKER_00: to make different decisions along the way.
[16:00] SPEAKER_01: That's, that's really excellent. And same on that kind of theme, you know,
[16:05] SPEAKER_01: we've all had mentors have mentors.
[16:08] SPEAKER_01: You know, what's the best piece of advice you've ever received?
[16:13] SPEAKER_01: The one that you carry around with you, you know, that just doesn't go away.
[16:20] SPEAKER_01: It's always there.
[16:24] SPEAKER_00: Um, it's funny. I think,
[16:28] SPEAKER_00: my, my father, when I was very, very young, told me something at some point,
[16:32] SPEAKER_00: he said, there's the prod, there's a, there's a same in Italian,
[16:38] SPEAKER_00: that's,
[16:40] SPEAKER_00: and the same goes a little bit like, if there is no wind, uh, row,
[16:48] SPEAKER_00: I like that.
[16:50] SPEAKER_00: And, uh, that, that is the one, the one quote and the one saying that I kind of,
[16:56] SPEAKER_00: I kind of carry with me.
[16:58] SPEAKER_01: That's good. Let's, let's go.
[17:00] SPEAKER_01: It's been pretty deep up to now. Let's, let's get on some kind of funny ones.
[17:05] SPEAKER_01: Okay.
[17:07] SPEAKER_01: The classic one, you are mourning or a night person.
[17:10] SPEAKER_00: I'm, I'm a, I'm a night person.
[17:12] SPEAKER_01: A night person.
[17:14] SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
[17:14] SPEAKER_01: You know, not your typical entrepreneur.
[17:16] SPEAKER_01: I'm not.
[17:17] SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
[17:19] SPEAKER_01: But what's the best thing that, you know, because you've lived both sides of the,
[17:24] SPEAKER_01: what's the best thing about being an entrepreneur?
[17:27] SPEAKER_01: What, what, you know, I don't necessarily mean, you know, making the money or whatever.
[17:31] SPEAKER_01: Or maybe that is the best thing. I don't know.
[17:34] SPEAKER_01: But I think it's probably more than that.
[17:36] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think I would, you know, I'm, there's just, there's a tremendous amount of freedom,
[17:43] SPEAKER_00: uh, that comes with entrepreneurship.
[17:45] SPEAKER_00: Uh, and there's a cost to that freedom, obviously, but, but there's a tremendous amount of freedom.
[17:49] SPEAKER_00: And it's, it's, it's, it's freedom to, to, to build something that, you know,
[17:56] SPEAKER_00: that is, um, a little bit in your image, you know, like obviously,
[18:00] SPEAKER_00: like, you, you, you, you organization that you're building or whatever it is that you're
[18:04] SPEAKER_00: building to end, tends to be somewhat of a reflection of who you are.
[18:09] SPEAKER_00: Uh, you get, you have the freedom to select your, your, your, your collaborators.
[18:14] SPEAKER_00: You have the freedom to select, um, this, you know, what you do every day.
[18:19] SPEAKER_00: Um, uh, and that, that is, that is, um, that's very, that, that's very cool.
[18:25] SPEAKER_00: Like it's, if your priorities, it's, it's, it's, it's, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, and,
[18:29] SPEAKER_00: and if you fail, well, you fail because, because, because, because of you, uh, and, and, and, and, and, and, and so that is,
[18:36] SPEAKER_00: that is something that is very different than being part of a larger organization.
[18:40] SPEAKER_01: Um, um, uh, turning to your business, which you seem pretty excited about.
[18:45] SPEAKER_01: What are you most excited about in the business today?
[18:50] SPEAKER_00: Um, I, I, I'm, I'm very excited about the fact that we're, what, what keeps me going is that we,
[18:57] SPEAKER_00: we are actually, it's funny because I was, I was, I was, I was, uh, I was, uh, at, um, at a meeting today, uh, in a, uh, in a, in a bank, actually,
[19:07] SPEAKER_00: and one of the bank employees came to see us and said, um, you know, I called you guys actually two weeks ago, because, you know, I lost my dad, uh, six months ago.
[19:17] SPEAKER_00: And, and, and I didn't know you guys existed, but then I saw, I saw, I saw you and I, I gave you a call and, and I really wish, I really wish, uh, that I know about you six months ago.
[19:27] SPEAKER_00: So he was too late in the process in order to retain our services.
[19:31] SPEAKER_00: Um, uh, but, but when, when a consumer tells you this, when a consumer tells you, like, like, I, I, I know the pain, and I know the pain point that you're answering and tells you, hey, I really wish, I had known about you.
[19:46] SPEAKER_00: Uh, it tells me it gets me really excited because it means that we're truly answering a pain point in the market and, and, and there's, there's, there's no doubt about it.
[19:55] SPEAKER_00: Uh, and we are, we are making a difference in, in, in, in Canadian and, and, and Americans, families, um, and we're supporting people in need.
[20:05] SPEAKER_00: And I think that's, that's what's the most exciting about this business. I mean, it's that, is that we are, we are answering a true, a true need.
[20:13] SPEAKER_02: And, you know, if you had to pick one word to describe yourself, what would it be, and why?
[20:23] SPEAKER_02: Um, you can pick two words if you want to be, I was going to say I'm hard at it, but, uh,
[20:34] SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think the one word would be argumentative, uh, and, and, and I think that's, that's, it's, it's, I am, I'm an argumentative person and, and, and I do this, and I challenge a lot.
[20:47] SPEAKER_00: I challenge all the time and, and I, and it's actually exhausting. It's exhausting for my family members. It's exhausting for my kids. It's exhausting for my partner.
[20:55] SPEAKER_00: Uh, it's exhausting for some of my colleagues. Um, but I think, I think what it brings in terms of value is, is, and I'm not putting my family in this, in this, but it raises the bar, it raises the bar all the time.
[21:08] SPEAKER_00: Uh, and I think that's, uh, that, that produces, or it's actually conducive to producing, uh, great outcomes.
[21:17] SPEAKER_01: That's really really good stuff. Um, oh, golly, we're, we're, we're reaching up, we're reaching my time. So, uh, so, how can the listeners get ahold of you?
[21:33] SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, the listen to these things, and it does happen fairly, fairly frequently. Uh, so I was like, you know, for people to be able to reach, reach you.
[21:43] SPEAKER_00: I feel that something up, you know, the best way is LinkedIn. I mean, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, LinkedIn is probably the platform where I'm, I'm the most present. I'm not a Twitter, Twitter person, nor am I a Facebook or Instagram person. Therefore, I think that's the best to reach me.
[22:00] SPEAKER_01: Okay. I mean, so thank you very much for coming on. Kind of spot.
[22:04] SPEAKER_01: Yes, we've been really interesting one. Okay. Thank you. Thank you for having me.
