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TRANSCRIPTION WITH SPEAKERS
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[00:00] SPEAKER_02: This podcast is sponsored by eBay Canada.
[00:02] SPEAKER_02: eBay Canada is here to help.
[00:04] SPEAKER_02: They've been supporting Canadian small business retailers for 25 years
[00:08] SPEAKER_02: and have recently launched their up and running program
[00:11] SPEAKER_02: to meet an urgent need to get businesses online today.
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[00:27] SPEAKER_02: Welcome to Canada's podcast.
[00:29] SPEAKER_02: The number one podcast for entrepreneurs and by entrepreneurs.
[00:34] SPEAKER_01: Today's guest on Calgary's podcast is Alicia Dubois,
[00:40] SPEAKER_01: who is the first CEO of the Alberta Indigenous Opportunities Corporation.
[00:45] SPEAKER_01: Thanks for joining us today, Alicia.
[00:48] SPEAKER_00: Thanks for having me.
[00:49] SPEAKER_01: Let's start with just a simple question about what is the organization
[00:54] SPEAKER_01: and what's its purpose?
[00:57] SPEAKER_00: Sure. So the Alberta Indigenous Opportunities Corporation
[01:00] SPEAKER_00: is truly a first of its kind and it's innovative.
[01:03] SPEAKER_00: It's a crown corporation in Canada that will provide up to $1 billion
[01:09] SPEAKER_00: in loan guarantees for Indigenous investment opportunities.
[01:13] SPEAKER_00: More specifically, the AIOC's foundational intent is to foster an
[01:17] SPEAKER_00: inclusive economic ecosystem that bolsters Indigenous prosperity
[01:22] SPEAKER_00: and wellness through direct Indigenous involvement and ownership.
[01:25] SPEAKER_00: In medium to large scale natural resource projects and related infrastructure.
[01:30] SPEAKER_00: The beauty of the mandate is that, while of course we're supporting access
[01:35] SPEAKER_00: to capital and to the economy for Indigenous groups,
[01:39] SPEAKER_00: we're also serving regional development growth simultaneously.
[01:44] SPEAKER_01: Okay. And where is your base right now?
[01:48] SPEAKER_00: So my base right now is in Calgary.
[01:51] SPEAKER_00: I live just outside, but the primary office will be Calgary.
[01:56] SPEAKER_01: Do you anticipate moving to Edmonton as well eventually?
[02:00] SPEAKER_00: I think we do anticipate having an Edmonton office in addition to Calgary.
[02:05] SPEAKER_00: These are things that I'm still learning about myself.
[02:08] SPEAKER_00: So forgive me, there's a bit of an evolution both in my knowledge
[02:12] SPEAKER_00: and also in the corporation, of course.
[02:16] SPEAKER_01: Let's talk a little bit about the reasons behind this.
[02:19] SPEAKER_01: I guess how this all came about.
[02:22] SPEAKER_01: Can you maybe talk a little bit about that and how the organization came to be?
[02:29] SPEAKER_00: Well, as I understand it, it was a promise of the current government
[02:35] SPEAKER_00: as a means to support Indigenous prosperity.
[02:40] SPEAKER_00: And the corporation was originated approximately one year ago.
[02:44] SPEAKER_00: So it has had a process of getting the independent board developed, etc.
[02:50] SPEAKER_00: It is a politically agnostic corporation.
[02:53] SPEAKER_00: So the intent here is to really focus on enhancing Indigenous prosperity
[03:00] SPEAKER_00: and making sure that Indigenous groups have access to capital.
[03:04] SPEAKER_01: Why is that important?
[03:06] SPEAKER_00: Well, access to capital has been a long-standing barrier, honestly,
[03:10] SPEAKER_00: for Indigenous groups in Alberta, but all across Canada.
[03:14] SPEAKER_00: At the end of the day, Indigenous peoples have traditionally been marginalized from the economy
[03:21] SPEAKER_00: and financial infrastructure.
[03:23] SPEAKER_00: And so the echo effect of that is that there has not been a real significant ability
[03:30] SPEAKER_00: for Indigenous groups to participate in really smart projects.
[03:35] SPEAKER_00: And we're hoping our mandate is to correct that to a certain degree.
[03:39] SPEAKER_01: Okay, so how maybe we can explain the process?
[03:43] SPEAKER_01: So how will this work?
[03:47] SPEAKER_01: How will you get the funding or money out to groups if I'm an Indigenous person with a business
[03:55] SPEAKER_01: and I need some money?
[03:57] SPEAKER_01: What do I do?
[03:58] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so there's a specific application process and it's on the website.
[04:03] SPEAKER_00: So the application process is quite transparent.
[04:05] SPEAKER_00: The funding will not actually come from the government.
[04:10] SPEAKER_00: So Indigenous groups who have a potential project that they're interested in pursuing
[04:15] SPEAKER_00: from having an equity stake type standpoint,
[04:18] SPEAKER_00: so actually being part owner of the project,
[04:21] SPEAKER_00: will then have to ensure that they get financing from an independent financial institution
[04:29] SPEAKER_00: and then as part of the security package for that borrowing,
[04:34] SPEAKER_00: the government, are there the Alberta Indigenous Opportunities Corporation,
[04:38] SPEAKER_00: Guarantee, then comes into play.
[04:41] SPEAKER_00: So that's essentially how the mechanics of it work.
[04:44] SPEAKER_00: And of course, getting to the point with a project where you actually are in a position
[04:50] SPEAKER_00: to be able to put forward an application for a Guarantee would require having an agreement
[04:56] SPEAKER_00: with a financial institution that the borrowing would be available in the event that Guarantee
[05:01] SPEAKER_00: is granted.
[05:03] SPEAKER_00: And so doing all of that due diligence is not a simple thing to get to that point.
[05:08] SPEAKER_00: And we want to ensure that Indigenous groups have the ability to engage in an appropriate
[05:14] SPEAKER_00: level of due diligence in the projects that they're considering before they start down the road
[05:20] SPEAKER_00: too far. So in order to support that aspect above and beyond the up to $1 billion in loan guarantees,
[05:27] SPEAKER_00: is a capacity grant program.
[05:31] SPEAKER_00: And that program is really important because essentially it will support Indigenous groups as they
[05:36] SPEAKER_00: go through the due diligence process and figure out whether or not this is an initiative they're
[05:41] SPEAKER_00: interested in.
[05:42] SPEAKER_01: Okay, when you mentioned the $1 billion in loan guarantees, is that on an annual basis or is that
[05:48] SPEAKER_01: the lifetime of the corporation?
[05:50] SPEAKER_00: Right, so as it stands right now, that's what we're working with.
[05:53] SPEAKER_00: I can't speak to the evolution of it.
[05:56] SPEAKER_00: I think that at this point, we're just wanting to make sure that we get those dollars that
[06:02] SPEAKER_00: have been initially established, right? And that we have some success stories coming from there.
[06:07] SPEAKER_00: Because if we don't have that, we'll have a really challenging time with anything going forward.
[06:12] SPEAKER_01: Do you have any idea of how many businesses you might touch initially with this?
[06:19] SPEAKER_00: Well, I do understand that there's a number of applications. So the board has been very highly
[06:24] SPEAKER_00: engaged in the process so far because of course it's taken some time to get to the point where
[06:29] SPEAKER_00: they're able to bring me on. And so the board's been working at the pace of business in assessing
[06:35] SPEAKER_00: applications and looking at things. There's a number for me waiting for me to review once I get
[06:42] SPEAKER_00: there, of course. But ultimately, I don't know if I can necessarily give you a number, but I can tell
[06:48] SPEAKER_00: you that the actual guarantee range is we start with minimum of $25 million. So the
[06:58] SPEAKER_00: indigenous group needs to be requiring at least a minimum of $25 million for the guarantee.
[07:04] SPEAKER_01: And the maximum is $250 million. Oh wow. Okay, then. So this isn't like me setting up my little
[07:13] SPEAKER_00: convenience store down the street type thing. No, exactly. This is really focused on mid to large
[07:19] SPEAKER_00: scale projects. And specifically, the projects that would be eligible include energy projects. So
[07:27] SPEAKER_00: oil and gas, renewable energy, power, etc. But also forestry and infrastructure.
[07:33] SPEAKER_01: Okay. How did you get it? Maybe talk a little bit about your background. First,
[07:39] SPEAKER_00: where did you come from before this position? Yeah. So I'm still in transition. So I still hold the
[07:46] SPEAKER_00: role of Vice President Indigenous Markets at CIBC. So Indigenous Finance is something that I'm
[07:52] SPEAKER_00: very familiar with. And I've been engaged with for some time by training. I'm a lawyer. So I
[07:57] SPEAKER_00: practiced law first for a number of years before going into finance. And at the end of the day,
[08:04] SPEAKER_00: anyone who knows me knows that I have a real sincere passion about supporting Indigenous
[08:10] SPEAKER_00: prosperity and wellness. And that Indigenous peoples have a right to self-determination.
[08:16] SPEAKER_00: And I've found throughout my career, and I've held a number of different positions, is that
[08:20] SPEAKER_00: for me, the best way that I can contribute is by supporting access to capital and access to
[08:28] SPEAKER_00: the economy for Indigenous peoples. Because the echo effect of that type of engagement is really
[08:33] SPEAKER_00: profound. It touches the communities in a very meaningful way. So the beauty of this is that
[08:40] SPEAKER_00: the partnerships that the AIOC will support will mean that the Indigenous groups that are
[08:47] SPEAKER_00: participating will be able to be in a position to be active business partners. And therefore,
[08:52] SPEAKER_00: develop very meaningful business acumen. They'll be able to drive stable, own source revenues.
[08:57] SPEAKER_00: And that will be, you know, that will be present then to be able to support their communities.
[09:01] SPEAKER_00: And of course, there's other echo effects too, because it will encourage entrepreneurialism
[09:06] SPEAKER_00: within the community. And that then drives skills development, employment, entrepreneurial growth,
[09:12] SPEAKER_00: et cetera. So it's, you know, all the while, all the while, they're also supporting the regional
[09:18] SPEAKER_00: economic growth. So it really is a win-win for everybody. So where is this passion on your part
[09:24] SPEAKER_00: for the Indigenous community camp? Yeah. So I have Indigenous roots from my father's side.
[09:32] SPEAKER_00: And so for me, from a professional standpoint, I mean, personally, it's always a pleasure to
[09:39] SPEAKER_00: be able to support and foster success in communities from a personal standpoint. And professionally,
[09:48] SPEAKER_00: it just has maintained, I've maintained a very sincere desire to make sure that I am contributing
[09:55] SPEAKER_02: meaningfully to Indigenous communities. This podcast is sponsored by eBay Canada. eBay Canada
[10:01] SPEAKER_02: is powering Canadian small businesses. Go to eBay.ca slash up and running to open your online shop.
[10:10] SPEAKER_01: I just wanted to go back when you're talking about the capital investment, especially now,
[10:16] SPEAKER_01: you know, with everything we're facing out there, obviously, you know, with the COVID stuff still
[10:21] SPEAKER_01: going on. And then in Alberta, particularly, we have challenges due to the little oil prices,
[10:28] SPEAKER_01: et cetera. How important is it, whether it's the Indigenous community or whether it's any business
[10:35] SPEAKER_01: community, to have that access to capital right now? Yeah, the access to capital is really key.
[10:43] SPEAKER_00: The COVID has presented very unique challenges. I think, you know, really caught us off balance.
[10:49] SPEAKER_00: I think as a society at the beginning, I do, I'm pleased to see that we've now sort of started
[10:56] SPEAKER_00: to build into this new normal. And I'm not sure how things will continue to evolve in that regard.
[11:02] SPEAKER_00: But I know that in my current role at CIBC, and I also know that in the role that is waiting for me
[11:08] SPEAKER_00: as of September 1, there's a lot of activity and engagement and interest in engaging the
[11:15] SPEAKER_00: in the economy in a meaningful way. So I'm hoping that I'm hoping to yet to be part of that
[11:21] SPEAKER_01: solution. Is the corporation just a curse me? Is the corporation unique in Canada? Are there any
[11:28] SPEAKER_00: other entities similar to this? Yeah. So there's only one other similar entity, but there are some
[11:36] SPEAKER_00: very important differences between the two. So in Ontario, the Ontario provincial government has
[11:44] SPEAKER_00: the Ontario Aboriginal Loan Guarantee Program. So it's similar in the sense that it's available
[11:49] SPEAKER_00: for projects that involve Indigenous groups as part equity owners. And they've had some great
[11:58] SPEAKER_00: success out there with a couple of really key projects. The difference I would say is that
[12:05] SPEAKER_00: my understanding from the Ontario program, at least the last time I looked at it, is that
[12:10] SPEAKER_00: its limit generally is capped at 50 million. So the contract like that guarantee support is less
[12:18] SPEAKER_00: significant. And I think their annual sort of allowance is 250 million. So again, another
[12:26] SPEAKER_00: limiter in that regard. And the whole point of what the AIOC is really focusing on is creating
[12:33] SPEAKER_00: that ecosystem. So rather than it being a transaction and just being the one to facilitate the necessary
[12:40] SPEAKER_00: security so that the nation has or the the Indigenous group has access to capital, it's much more
[12:47] SPEAKER_00: about being part of an ecosystem that helps to really prepare the Indigenous group for engagement.
[12:56] SPEAKER_00: And that goes back to the capacity building grants also. Is there any stipulation in terms of the money
[13:03] SPEAKER_01: that there's has to be some job creation in the Indigenous community as well?
[13:12] SPEAKER_00: So there's no specific tie when it comes to the guarantee. But it is I think a natural byproduct
[13:19] SPEAKER_00: of being an equity owner that it's not like a one undone. So in other decades, we got very
[13:31] SPEAKER_00: used to seeing impact benefit agreements. So resource development companies would enter into the space,
[13:38] SPEAKER_00: they would make agreements with the Indigenous groups that were impacted perhaps it was their
[13:44] SPEAKER_00: traditional land that was impacted, etc. And then the partnership really went by way of an
[13:50] SPEAKER_00: impact benefit agreement that included funding. So like revenue sharing, so to speak with the Indigenous
[13:58] SPEAKER_00: group. And potentially some employment opportunities and the like. The the impact benefit agreement
[14:06] SPEAKER_00: limiter really is that there's no joint ownership. So there's no real partnership and engagement
[14:13] SPEAKER_00: from a business perspective. And so like the I think that this idea of Indigenous ownership and
[14:20] SPEAKER_00: joint ventures involving Indigenous groups is one that is really key to Indigenous prosperity
[14:27] SPEAKER_00: and stability because it does mean that as owners, there's going to be a better chance of employment
[14:34] SPEAKER_00: and skills development and there'll be more say as far as you know how diverse even the supply
[14:41] SPEAKER_00: chain is for the project. And you know, I hope to see that this ecosystem really blossoms in a way
[14:47] SPEAKER_00: that the echo effect is far far beyond just the transaction. So it's very exciting to me. I'm
[14:54] SPEAKER_01: I'm super honored to be able to have this role. It may be an odd ball type question, but I'll ask it.
[15:05] SPEAKER_01: As an entrepreneur, an Indigenous entrepreneur, do you think someone that you know has roots in
[15:12] SPEAKER_01: the Indigenous culture and background brings something different to the table in terms of skill sets,
[15:21] SPEAKER_01: personality in terms of you know, being a business owner? Well, I think that naturally people bring
[15:28] SPEAKER_00: their values and their principles to the table in almost anything that they endeavor to do.
[15:35] SPEAKER_00: And that's something that I'm always pleased to see be brought to the table when there's an
[15:42] SPEAKER_00: Indigenous group or person that's engaged. So undoubtedly, I think a part of the consideration
[15:50] SPEAKER_00: for Indigenous groups as they get engaged with AIOC and move forward with projects is that
[15:57] SPEAKER_00: there's going to be a desire and for them to be able to bring those values to the table,
[16:04] SPEAKER_00: whether it be with respect to environmental remediation or or even the way in which meetings are held.
[16:12] SPEAKER_00: I've been to many corporate meetings that involve Indigenous communities where talking sticks are
[16:17] SPEAKER_00: used and that means everybody gets a chance to speak and without interruption. And so, you know,
[16:22] SPEAKER_00: like these concepts are very important. And I think that it will certainly serve everybody well
[16:31] SPEAKER_01: bringing in an inclusive perspective. Would you say Alberta is a leader in this area? Why
[16:38] SPEAKER_00: what it's done when setting up this corporation? Yes, I absolutely do. And really that's why I'm
[16:45] SPEAKER_00: interested in this role. So I've had a fantastic experience at CIBC and I'm so proud of all of the
[16:51] SPEAKER_00: work that we've been able to do together. But this role for me is one that is particularly one
[16:58] SPEAKER_00: of thought leadership and that makes me very excited because I think that if we can put forward a
[17:04] SPEAKER_00: very positive example and we're able to show success even when the economy is challenging,
[17:11] SPEAKER_00: then that will be a very important example for all of Canada and in fact beyond. So earlier,
[17:17] SPEAKER_00: a number of months ago, I was invited to join a group of Indigenous people that went to the OECD,
[17:25] SPEAKER_00: which stands for the organization for economic cooperation and development. And it's essentially
[17:30] SPEAKER_00: a public policy organization that informs the United Nations as they are starting to create their
[17:37] SPEAKER_00: directives. And the beauty of that meeting was that I was there with a number of Indigenous people
[17:44] SPEAKER_00: from around the world and able to have conversations about the Indigenous perspective in regional
[17:49] SPEAKER_00: economic development. And to that time, even though the OECD and the UN have been in place since
[17:57] SPEAKER_00: after World War II, the Indigenous perspective is not one that has been considered. And at that
[18:03] SPEAKER_00: table, we were able to convince the OECD and specifically one of the very key regional economic
[18:09] SPEAKER_00: development subcommittees of the importance of the Indigenous voice being told from the Indigenous
[18:15] SPEAKER_00: person based upon their own lived experiences. Because at the end of the day, there's a huge
[18:22] SPEAKER_00: contribution to the economy that is made by way of Indigenous businesses. And this is just another
[18:27] SPEAKER_00: example of thought leadership in that regard. And I know this is something that I hope will begin to
[18:35] SPEAKER_00: be contemplated even beyond Canada's borders. It truly is thought leadership.
[18:41] SPEAKER_01: Okay. Is there anything you'd like to add, Alicia, before you read the part today?
[18:47] SPEAKER_00: No, I think that I have essentially touched on everything. And I'm really pleased to be able to
[18:53] SPEAKER_01: have a chance to speak. Well, thanks for joining us today. Thanks.
[18:57] SPEAKER_01: That was Alicia Dubois, who was the first ever CEO of the Alberta Indigenous Opportunities
[19:04] SPEAKER_02: Corporation. Thanks for joining us today. This podcast is sponsored by eBay Canada.
[19:11] SPEAKER_02: eBay Canada is here to help. They've been supporting Canadian small business retailers for 25 years
[19:17] SPEAKER_02: and have recently launched their up and running program to meet an urgent need to get business
[19:22] SPEAKER_02: online today. New business sellers can get a free key call in the store for 90 days when they visit
[19:30] SPEAKER_02: eBay.ca slash up and running. Access eBay's 170 plus million buyers around the world. With eBay
[19:39] SPEAKER_02: Canada, you can stay local, sell global and power up. That's eBay.ca slash up and running.
[19:47] SPEAKER_02: Offer is open until August 22nd.
