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TRANSCRIPTION WITH SPEAKERS
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[00:00] SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Canada's podcast.
[00:05] SPEAKER_00: Hello, this is Angela Faye from Canada's podcast,
[00:09] SPEAKER_00: and I am super excited to welcome Alex Wiley to the show today.
[00:14] SPEAKER_00: And while it started in Vancouver a little bit,
[00:18] SPEAKER_00: which is how I ended up connecting with Alex,
[00:20] SPEAKER_00: it turns out that Alex is involved in Volt Lithium,
[00:23] SPEAKER_00: which we're going to be talking about today,
[00:25] SPEAKER_00: and which is now headquartered in Calgary.
[00:27] SPEAKER_00: So we'll get to that.
[00:28] SPEAKER_00: But I want to just spend a few minutes.
[00:30] SPEAKER_00: Let's get to know Alex.
[00:32] SPEAKER_00: Alex, you have a definite proven track record of
[00:35] SPEAKER_00: founding and building successful
[00:38] SPEAKER_00: high growth resource based companies.
[00:41] SPEAKER_00: So can you tell me a little bit about your background?
[00:43] SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you Angela.
[00:45] SPEAKER_01: A little bit about my background.
[00:48] SPEAKER_01: I've been building Wiley Gas companies
[00:51] SPEAKER_01: and resource companies for the past 20 years.
[00:55] SPEAKER_01: The majority of it's been based in Calgary, Alberta.
[00:59] SPEAKER_01: When we first saw the opportunity,
[01:03] SPEAKER_01: historically my background was focused in Wiley Gas,
[01:07] SPEAKER_01: and I transitioned into Lithium.
[01:10] SPEAKER_01: What we saw, what I saw a couple of years back,
[01:13] SPEAKER_01: was across North America,
[01:16] SPEAKER_01: there's a lot of Lithium in different oil fields.
[01:21] SPEAKER_01: And what I thought and what the team thought was,
[01:23] SPEAKER_01: is there a way that we can extract it?
[01:26] SPEAKER_01: Is there a technology that we can use to extract it?
[01:29] SPEAKER_01: When we looked around, we didn't see
[01:31] SPEAKER_01: many technologies, so we developed our own.
[01:34] SPEAKER_01: And I really leveraged off my background in terms of building
[01:37] SPEAKER_01: and selling companies in the past for the past 20 years
[01:40] SPEAKER_01: to leverage what we're doing here for the Lithium industry.
[01:45] SPEAKER_01: When I look at the Lithium industry and where it's going,
[01:49] SPEAKER_01: one of the key things that I see is
[01:53] SPEAKER_01: there's a lot of talk about building minds.
[01:56] SPEAKER_01: And I've got a bit of a different view on that.
[02:00] SPEAKER_01: There's oil fields that are producing across North America
[02:02] SPEAKER_01: that have Lithium in them.
[02:05] SPEAKER_01: They're producing today, they're producing Lithium,
[02:08] SPEAKER_01: they're just not extracting it.
[02:09] SPEAKER_01: And so what I've tried to do with my experience in the oil and gas industry
[02:14] SPEAKER_01: is to say, hey, is there another way to extract Lithium?
[02:18] SPEAKER_01: And so that was the genesis of Volt.
[02:21] SPEAKER_01: And we've took the view that let's start it from scratch.
[02:25] SPEAKER_01: Let's build this technology from scratch.
[02:29] SPEAKER_01: And let's turn that into an operating company.
[02:32] SPEAKER_01: And so I'm leveraging my experience with the oil and gas industry
[02:35] SPEAKER_01: to new innovation to what we're doing for Lithium.
[02:39] SPEAKER_01: And we're really excited about where we're at right now.
[02:42] SPEAKER_00: Which is awesome.
[02:43] SPEAKER_00: Now I just want to, like you say, build and sell oil and gas companies
[02:49] SPEAKER_00: like it's a thing.
[02:51] SPEAKER_00: Well, it might be a thing for Alex,
[02:54] SPEAKER_00: but it's not really a thing for the average person.
[02:57] SPEAKER_00: So tell me a little bit about what drives you.
[03:00] SPEAKER_00: Where did you get this energy and motivation
[03:03] SPEAKER_00: and sense of purpose around oil and gas?
[03:08] SPEAKER_01: When I look at big industries,
[03:13] SPEAKER_01: energy is a part of our life.
[03:15] SPEAKER_01: And so historically, when I started in the oil and gas industry,
[03:20] SPEAKER_01: took the view that energy is a part of our life.
[03:24] SPEAKER_01: What I've been able to do is build companies.
[03:27] SPEAKER_01: And what I've learned through the process is,
[03:30] SPEAKER_01: you know, each company that you do,
[03:32] SPEAKER_01: you just get a little bit better.
[03:34] SPEAKER_01: And so maybe it takes eight companies to get better.
[03:37] SPEAKER_01: And it's taken me a long time.
[03:40] SPEAKER_01: Well, that's good or bad. It's taken me a long time.
[03:42] SPEAKER_01: And so what I try and do is have a first class operation to serve.
[03:50] SPEAKER_01: If you can build, as in our lithium company,
[03:53] SPEAKER_01: a really good technology,
[03:56] SPEAKER_01: that's the starting product.
[03:58] SPEAKER_01: Working with good people, that's a starting block.
[04:00] SPEAKER_01: And really collaborating to build a business.
[04:05] SPEAKER_01: I guess I've been unfortunate because a lot of times,
[04:09] SPEAKER_01: my job doesn't last too long
[04:10] SPEAKER_01: because I end up getting bought out.
[04:13] SPEAKER_01: And so what ends up happening with me is,
[04:16] SPEAKER_01: if you build what I think,
[04:17] SPEAKER_01: a first class operation to start with good people,
[04:21] SPEAKER_01: with good ethics, with good technology,
[04:24] SPEAKER_01: the chances are you're not going to be able to last long.
[04:28] SPEAKER_01: And that's, I guess, why become a serial entrepreneur.
[04:31] SPEAKER_00: Awesome. I love it.
[04:32] SPEAKER_00: I'm just going to highlight that.
[04:34] SPEAKER_00: The kind of four pillars that you talked about,
[04:36] SPEAKER_00: which is technology,
[04:37] SPEAKER_00: the people, collaboration, and ethics, right?
[04:41] SPEAKER_00: Are the foundations of a company that you've worked with in the past.
[04:48] SPEAKER_00: I think that's amazing.
[04:49] SPEAKER_00: And tell me a little bit about, you know,
[04:52] SPEAKER_00: one or two memorable stories that will make it impossible for our audience
[04:56] SPEAKER_00: to forget Alex.
[04:57] SPEAKER_00: There's got to be something.
[05:01] SPEAKER_01: Well, I mean,
[05:04] SPEAKER_01: from a both perspective,
[05:05] SPEAKER_01: I guess one of the things that I'll never forget about what we've been doing so far is,
[05:15] SPEAKER_01: I guess when you look at it,
[05:18] SPEAKER_01: you think about any industry and you always think
[05:22] SPEAKER_01: someone's done it before.
[05:24] SPEAKER_01: And when we started looking at,
[05:26] SPEAKER_01: started thinking about what we were trying to do.
[05:29] SPEAKER_01: And especially, I mean,
[05:30] SPEAKER_01: doing lithium extraction from oil fields,
[05:32] SPEAKER_01: we thought, well,
[05:33] SPEAKER_01: someone must have done this.
[05:35] SPEAKER_01: And we started to try and find technology for someone else to help us and to do it.
[05:40] SPEAKER_01: And we learned real quick.
[05:42] SPEAKER_01: There's no one.
[05:43] SPEAKER_01: So we've got to figure this out ourselves.
[05:45] SPEAKER_01: And you come to this realization at some point where you go,
[05:49] SPEAKER_01: am I really the first?
[05:51] SPEAKER_01: Yes.
[05:52] SPEAKER_01: And so it's been like a little uncharted,
[05:57] SPEAKER_01: because we're the first in trying a specific application.
[06:02] SPEAKER_01: That's lithium from oil field,
[06:03] SPEAKER_01: but there's lots of companies that are doing lithium.
[06:05] SPEAKER_01: So I'm not saying that it's just being first in something is unique.
[06:12] SPEAKER_01: And being first means you don't have a precedent.
[06:16] SPEAKER_01: So you have to leverage off of what have I learned through my career?
[06:19] SPEAKER_01: How have I done this?
[06:21] SPEAKER_01: And then use what you've learned through your career to apply it to what we're doing in lithium,
[06:27] SPEAKER_01: a new technology.
[06:28] SPEAKER_00: And that's very exciting.
[06:28] SPEAKER_00: We're going to talk a little bit more about lithium later.
[06:31] SPEAKER_00: In the interview, I think this is kind of perfect segue into the idea that you and I talked about earlier,
[06:39] SPEAKER_00: but sometimes the most obvious solution is right under your nose.
[06:43] SPEAKER_00: So why and how is this the case with your findings and volt?
[06:50] SPEAKER_01: I think the thing that surprised me the most about volt was we thought we're going to start an operation in Alberta.
[07:00] SPEAKER_01: And because there was lithium in this brine.
[07:03] SPEAKER_01: And really what we were thinking was,
[07:07] SPEAKER_01: okay, well, we're going to partner with an oil and gas company because they've got infrastructure.
[07:12] SPEAKER_01: And for us, it seemed like, okay, we're going to be able to get into production faster.
[07:17] SPEAKER_01: We're going to start our business faster.
[07:19] SPEAKER_01: And then we looked around and we went,
[07:23] SPEAKER_01: there's lithium in oil fields all across North America.
[07:27] SPEAKER_01: Why isn't anyone doing this?
[07:29] SPEAKER_01: And it was like, I mean, we felt like we just got hit over the head with this.
[07:34] SPEAKER_01: And we're going, it can't be true.
[07:36] SPEAKER_01: And the part that drew me off the most was,
[07:41] SPEAKER_01: I'll use an example.
[07:43] SPEAKER_01: Okay.
[07:45] SPEAKER_01: We learned over the last year and a half.
[07:47] SPEAKER_01: There's a huge basin in in Texas called the Peruvian Basin.
[07:52] SPEAKER_01: And they're producing brine or 18 and a half million barrels of brine
[07:56] SPEAKER_01: or water a day.
[07:58] SPEAKER_01: And in that water is lithium.
[08:00] SPEAKER_01: And we're like, this can't be like we can solve North America's lithium problem with brine
[08:07] SPEAKER_01: is being produced today.
[08:09] SPEAKER_01: It's just the opportunity.
[08:12] SPEAKER_01: I've never seen an opportunity like this in my career.
[08:15] SPEAKER_01: And so it's, how do you marry that technology?
[08:19] SPEAKER_01: How do you marry that ethics of the team to drive the business forward to do it properly?
[08:25] SPEAKER_01: How do you leverage that experience to a new idea?
[08:28] SPEAKER_01: And it's been quite a journey.
[08:29] SPEAKER_01: It's been an exciting journey so far.
[08:32] SPEAKER_00: Well, and just further to that, there's this.
[08:35] SPEAKER_00: It's never been done.
[08:36] SPEAKER_00: And there was a shop value there for you.
[08:38] SPEAKER_00: What do you think are some compelling questions that entrepreneurs just in general
[08:42] SPEAKER_00: should ask themselves to help them discover bold solutions that could be, you know,
[08:48] SPEAKER_00: right under the nose or ones that might not seem obvious?
[08:51] SPEAKER_00: How do I cover those?
[08:52] SPEAKER_00: I think there's some magic there.
[08:54] SPEAKER_01: I mean, for me, it's always looking at, where's the problem?
[09:00] SPEAKER_01: And then what, where's the problem?
[09:03] SPEAKER_01: Again, for us, there's, there's no lithium production.
[09:06] SPEAKER_01: Okay.
[09:07] SPEAKER_01: What's the solution?
[09:09] SPEAKER_01: And I mean, again, we looked at it like there's a big industry and a big marketer
[09:15] SPEAKER_01: that people haven't thought about.
[09:18] SPEAKER_01: Sometimes I think people have to trust their judgment in their experience.
[09:23] SPEAKER_01: And I'm not, I'm not sure if it's a gut reaction or what type of feel it is,
[09:28] SPEAKER_01: but really trust your instinct and what you're doing.
[09:31] SPEAKER_01: And again, I'll look to this industry.
[09:36] SPEAKER_01: There's so much lithium being produced.
[09:39] SPEAKER_01: It's just not being extracted.
[09:41] SPEAKER_01: And people, some people tend to have, hey, if it's been done before you always go down that same path.
[09:47] SPEAKER_01: I think when you're thinking as an entrepreneur, you've just got to say,
[09:50] SPEAKER_01: what's the problem?
[09:51] SPEAKER_01: Let's the solution as, of course, or whatever it's done before.
[09:54] SPEAKER_01: And that's a, it's just you have to be able to have that independent thinking.
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[10:08] SPEAKER_00: So how do you hold that gut instinct and, you know, I'm going to bring forward a question,
[10:15] SPEAKER_00: which is, was there, was there anybody so far that you've experienced that have suggested that you're crazy or that what you're attempting can't be done?
[10:25] SPEAKER_01: Everybody.
[10:26] SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
[10:28] SPEAKER_01: I mean, everybody.
[10:30] SPEAKER_01: And so again, I'll look at an industry and I would say people said to us, you can't do this, Alex.
[10:39] SPEAKER_01: It's never been done before.
[10:41] SPEAKER_01: And so, I mean, what I did.
[10:44] SPEAKER_01: And again, my view is, okay, it hasn't been done before.
[10:50] SPEAKER_01: People say it can't be done before.
[10:51] SPEAKER_01: Let's prove we can do it.
[10:53] SPEAKER_01: And so what we did is we ran a pilot operation and we put it a press release.
[10:59] SPEAKER_01: And everything was audited and third party engineers and everything.
[11:04] SPEAKER_01: And people came back to me and just said, well, that can't be because we haven't seen it before.
[11:10] SPEAKER_01: Now, that's the general person.
[11:12] SPEAKER_01: Now, what I saw from an industry perspective was, oh, wow, you can actually do this.
[11:19] SPEAKER_01: And I think what I learned from that is trust your instincts and do it and provide some results and show people you can do it.
[11:29] SPEAKER_01: And don't be distracted by people saying you can't do it.
[11:33] SPEAKER_00: Amazing.
[11:33] SPEAKER_00: Yeah. Thank you.
[11:34] SPEAKER_00: Okay, I wanted to dive into volts uniqueness a little bit because it's part of it.
[11:41] SPEAKER_00: What attracted me to talking to you was your big vision, right?
[11:46] SPEAKER_00: And the fact that it hadn't been done before.
[11:47] SPEAKER_00: So this is really cutting edge technology.
[11:50] SPEAKER_00: So, right now, Volta is working to become North America's first commercial producer of lithium from oil field brine.
[11:57] SPEAKER_00: So, talk to me a little bit about the value of lithium.
[12:03] SPEAKER_00: And some of the problems that are there with the oil field brine and kind of the marriage of those two.
[12:11] SPEAKER_01: The challenge, the value of lithium is and I'll go back to that permanent example.
[12:16] SPEAKER_01: There's 18,000,000 half barrels today of water that's being produced and in the water, there's lithium.
[12:23] SPEAKER_01: And so that's a huge number.
[12:25] SPEAKER_01: I mean, you could build a plant, an operation that could up to three, four hundred thousand tons per year of lithium.
[12:35] SPEAKER_01: It's right in front of us.
[12:37] SPEAKER_01: Now, what's the difference between what we're doing, say, and others.
[12:42] SPEAKER_01: One challenge without a doubt is the lithium that's in that brine is really low concentration.
[12:48] SPEAKER_01: So what that means is you have to have a really good extraction technology to be able to remove the lithium from the brine.
[12:56] SPEAKER_01: I would say a lot of people in the mining industry and others have said it's just too low a concentration.
[13:03] SPEAKER_01: My view and this is where I challenge people back and I challenge our team to say, okay, well, let's build our technology to tackle that.
[13:12] SPEAKER_01: And so I think the biggest eye opener from an industry perspective after we put our announcement out that we were able to do it was the fact we could actually do it at such low concentrations.
[13:24] SPEAKER_01: That's a big deal.
[13:25] SPEAKER_01: So that's a so the challenges is low concentrations like people said, well, it's too low concentration so you can't do it.
[13:32] SPEAKER_01: And we took the view that you can do it.
[13:37] SPEAKER_01: You just have to build a better technology and that's what we've done.
[13:40] SPEAKER_01: And we've improved our technology.
[13:42] SPEAKER_01: Now, the opportunity is we can solve North America's lithium problem from existing operations that are producing today.
[13:52] SPEAKER_01: And that's a big deal.
[13:54] SPEAKER_01: Right.
[13:54] SPEAKER_01: Because if you're trying to build a mine, it takes on average about 17 years to build a mine.
[14:01] SPEAKER_01: This is being produced today.
[14:04] SPEAKER_01: The lithium is being produced today is just not being extracted.
[14:07] SPEAKER_01: Right.
[14:07] SPEAKER_01: And so as the electric vehicle industry evolves as storage requirements evolve, lithium is just such a critical component to it.
[14:17] SPEAKER_01: And we really need a North America supply.
[14:20] SPEAKER_01: We need to have that security of supply.
[14:24] SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of other critical minerals across North America for batteries across the world.
[14:29] SPEAKER_01: And a lot of it's being produced in North America.
[14:31] SPEAKER_01: Lithium isn't.
[14:32] SPEAKER_01: And so we see that opportunity.
[14:34] SPEAKER_01: And again, the difference between what we're doing and say a mining company.
[14:39] SPEAKER_01: Is this is permitted.
[14:41] SPEAKER_01: It's producing today.
[14:43] SPEAKER_01: It's just not being extracted.
[14:44] SPEAKER_01: So I believe there's a real opportunity to become the first commercial producer.
[14:49] SPEAKER_01: And it will come from oil field branch.
[14:52] SPEAKER_00: Is there a possibility Alex of being completely.
[14:56] SPEAKER_00: I'll call it lithium secure, meaning we want we can both.
[15:01] SPEAKER_00: We'll have all of the source that we need from this technology.
[15:06] SPEAKER_00: Here in Canada.
[15:07] SPEAKER_00: And then we'll produce enough that we can export.
[15:11] SPEAKER_01: I think it's going to be a combination between production in Canada.
[15:17] SPEAKER_01: And production from the US from oil field.
[15:19] SPEAKER_01: OK.
[15:20] SPEAKER_01: I think it's going to be an industry that brings lithium to bear.
[15:25] SPEAKER_01: I think that there are some other projects that are far along.
[15:31] SPEAKER_01: From a mining perspective that we will both be complimentary.
[15:35] SPEAKER_01: But to fill the gap over the next 10 years.
[15:38] SPEAKER_01: I'm convinced it has to come from this industry.
[15:40] SPEAKER_01: It has to come from fields that are producing today.
[15:43] SPEAKER_00: OK.
[15:43] SPEAKER_00: And you see the primary uses of the lithium that you're extracting will be four batteries and energy storage.
[15:50] SPEAKER_00: Am I messing anything off that list?
[15:53] SPEAKER_01: I think that's a good.
[15:55] SPEAKER_01: It's a it's a key driver.
[15:58] SPEAKER_01: OK.
[15:59] SPEAKER_01: I mean electric vehicles are coming.
[16:03] SPEAKER_01: I think that I look at electric vehicles not only from a fossil fuel usage,
[16:10] SPEAKER_01: but also from a pollution perspective.
[16:12] Speaker UNKNOWN: They're clean.
[16:13] SPEAKER_01: The cities get polluted.
[16:14] SPEAKER_01: You look at a place Los Angeles or any big city.
[16:17] SPEAKER_01: They're polluted.
[16:18] SPEAKER_01: Electric vehicles solve a lot of that problem.
[16:21] SPEAKER_01: There are other applications, power tools, all kinds of other.
[16:25] SPEAKER_01: Anything that uses energy.
[16:27] SPEAKER_01: I think as soon as we start to have a North American supply.
[16:30] SPEAKER_01: I think we'll find other uses for lithium.
[16:33] SPEAKER_01: But no question the battery industry for electric vehicles is a key driver.
[16:37] SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
[16:38] SPEAKER_00: And if you could guess, right?
[16:41] SPEAKER_00: I mean, we're we're future casting here is if in five or 10 years we have a secure supply.
[16:48] SPEAKER_00: What other industries should be paying attention and considering lithium now when, you know,
[16:54] SPEAKER_00: at least in their next iteration of production or energy that they haven't yet considered lithium as a source.
[17:02] SPEAKER_01: Well, I believe that's a really good question.
[17:07] SPEAKER_01: And I think it's entrepreneurial minds will come up with new industries.
[17:13] SPEAKER_01: I mean, the demand for what we have is so critical.
[17:17] SPEAKER_01: Like vehicles, we have to make this change to electric vehicles.
[17:21] SPEAKER_01: And the demand is just, I mean, the what you need from a lithium perspective for these electric vehicles is just so critical.
[17:29] SPEAKER_01: We get that supply in North America.
[17:32] SPEAKER_01: Other industries will evolve.
[17:35] SPEAKER_01: I mean, there's a lot of issues with stores.
[17:37] SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of transportation issues.
[17:40] SPEAKER_01: There's other vehicle, other applications for home use and whatnot.
[17:46] SPEAKER_01: But that is just, I think once we have that supply, we will expand our minds somewhat.
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[18:02] SPEAKER_00: So I'm going to extrapolate that perhaps all of the car manufacturing companies in North America as well as communities that are looking for energy storage solutions should be listening to this to this and paying attention to vault.
[18:18] SPEAKER_00: That's.
[18:19] SPEAKER_01: Well, there's a challenge in the world.
[18:23] SPEAKER_01: I mean, we have countries and I'm going to get a little bit big picture.
[18:28] SPEAKER_01: But we have countries that are transitioning like Indian China and the amount of fossil fuels use per capita is so low to relative to North America.
[18:39] SPEAKER_01: And so the challenge that I see is that there's just not enough.
[18:44] SPEAKER_01: Forget about cutting back on fossil fuel use.
[18:47] SPEAKER_01: I don't think we can handle the growth.
[18:50] SPEAKER_01: And so we need all forms of supply room mature.
[18:54] SPEAKER_01: First world countries in North America.
[18:56] SPEAKER_01: And so we need to lead by example and transition to over to.
[19:03] SPEAKER_01: You know, energy efficient green vehicles.
[19:06] SPEAKER_00: So we've talked a little bit about that, which is the vision for a better future, right?
[19:11] SPEAKER_00: It is less dependence on fossil fuels, less maybe primary extraction and being able to use secondary sources here.
[19:21] SPEAKER_00: I'm just going to get a little controversial because they'll always be the, you know, the anti extraction or earth friendly advocates.
[19:28] SPEAKER_00: How would you respond to their perceptions?
[19:31] SPEAKER_01: Well, I will I'll go from the perspective that we have infrastructure in place today.
[19:38] SPEAKER_01: And it's producing when I look at the footprint from our operation relative to a night new mine is 94% less.
[19:48] SPEAKER_01: We're not going out and creating new minds.
[19:52] SPEAKER_01: We're taking.
[19:53] SPEAKER_01: We're leveraging off an industry that it's coming from water.
[19:57] SPEAKER_01: And we're going to clean the water from where we extract the lithium.
[20:01] SPEAKER_01: We're going to clean the water.
[20:02] SPEAKER_01: We've got a very small footprint.
[20:04] SPEAKER_01: We can reuse that water recycle it as opposed to.
[20:08] SPEAKER_01: Wiling gas companies or other industries using fresh water for their operations.
[20:12] SPEAKER_01: You can use recycled water for their operations.
[20:15] SPEAKER_01: So yes, I guess ultimately there is a form of extraction.
[20:21] SPEAKER_01: The footprint is just so much smaller and we're not.
[20:26] SPEAKER_01: Creating more disturbances to deal with, which I think is critical.
[20:29] SPEAKER_00: So I want to go back to your four pillars a little bit.
[20:33] SPEAKER_00: Just talk to me about the people behind, you know, who's involved in getting this initiative off the ground beyond Alex.
[20:42] SPEAKER_01: Well, I mean, this is this is part of it.
[20:45] SPEAKER_01: It's the people in the ethics and the two are so important.
[20:50] SPEAKER_01: So the a lot of the members on the team.
[20:53] SPEAKER_01: We've worked together for the past 15 years.
[20:57] SPEAKER_01: My key business partners.
[21:00] SPEAKER_01: We've worked together in the oil and gas industry.
[21:03] SPEAKER_01: And there's a group on the team that are PhDs, the scientists that have just brought so much to the table for us.
[21:12] SPEAKER_01: And again, it's knowing the people working with the people.
[21:16] SPEAKER_01: What we've got.
[21:17] SPEAKER_01: And again, through my business partner, we've got a lab up in the nanotechnology research center up in.
[21:23] SPEAKER_01: And Edmonds and Alberta, that's so important.
[21:27] SPEAKER_01: We're bringing some of the best minds from a.
[21:31] SPEAKER_01: Industry perspective historically for oil and gas and leveraging it for technology for extraction and the two really are married.
[21:38] SPEAKER_01: So.
[21:39] SPEAKER_01: The science is important.
[21:42] SPEAKER_01: The ability to work together for as long as we have.
[21:45] SPEAKER_01: We understand how each other works.
[21:48] SPEAKER_01: We understand each other's ethics.
[21:49] SPEAKER_01: We've built and sold business together so we understand each person's role.
[21:54] SPEAKER_01: It's just so critical.
[21:56] SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
[21:57] SPEAKER_01: The team is key.
[21:57] SPEAKER_00: There's some flow there that I'm hearing from you too that you know what each other's work.
[22:02] SPEAKER_00: You don't have to.
[22:03] SPEAKER_00: You know fine tune and micromanage you go out and just get the work done.
[22:08] SPEAKER_00: So we got people we've got ethics.
[22:10] SPEAKER_00: Let's dig into the technology.
[22:11] SPEAKER_00: I have this total vision of.
[22:13] SPEAKER_00: I mean, we're here sitting in in, you know, behind a zoom screen.
[22:16] SPEAKER_00: But I'm imagining this lab with coats and goggles and you know working on the extraction.
[22:22] SPEAKER_00: But what what what tell me a little bit about the actual technology you had a pilot.
[22:26] SPEAKER_00: You know, you had your plant.
[22:28] SPEAKER_00: Tell me about all the pieces that have got you to this this point.
[22:32] SPEAKER_01: Well, it starts with the nanotechnology research center.
[22:36] SPEAKER_00: Okay.
[22:37] SPEAKER_01: And that's just so important.
[22:39] SPEAKER_01: So when we developed.
[22:41] SPEAKER_01: Our technology.
[22:42] SPEAKER_01: I mean, we have to think.
[22:44] SPEAKER_01: At a nano level.
[22:46] SPEAKER_01: Now, as my PhD lead PhD would say, well, that's pretty big nano because you know, a lot of these transactions that are a lot of those chemical reactions happen at the atomic level.
[22:57] SPEAKER_01: So being at the nano levels, like for him is huge.
[23:01] Speaker UNKNOWN:
[23:01] SPEAKER_01: If you can understand the nano perspective and that's where the nanotechnology research comes in.
[23:07] SPEAKER_01: It is so key.
[23:08] SPEAKER_01: So I mean, our story or our evolution of our technology.
[23:11] SPEAKER_01: We developed our technology.
[23:14] SPEAKER_01: We made significant advances in the summer of 2022.
[23:20] SPEAKER_01: From the work the team of PhDs did up in the nanotechnology research center.
[23:25] SPEAKER_01: We ran our pilot in the spring of 2023.
[23:30] SPEAKER_01: And what we realized is it worked and it was great.
[23:35] SPEAKER_01: We thought, let's add to this.
[23:37] SPEAKER_01: And so we've added collaborations with the national research council.
[23:42] SPEAKER_01: And there's a team of PhDs, the man at the national research council.
[23:46] SPEAKER_01: We've got a team up at the University of Alberta, not only from a mechanical engineering PhDs and mechanical energy engineering, but also PhDs and chemistry.
[23:56] SPEAKER_01: And we brought together team from multi disciplines to improve the technology.
[24:01] SPEAKER_01: And Angela, I mean, maybe this is just me.
[24:05] SPEAKER_01: It's exciting from my perspective, because we keep improving.
[24:09] SPEAKER_01: And everyone's got a goal and everyone sees that we're going to do something better for the world.
[24:15] SPEAKER_01: And so everybody's really motivated.
[24:17] SPEAKER_01: So when I see the evolution of the team and bringing discipline and not being afraid to say, let's improve.
[24:26] SPEAKER_01: University of Alberta, how can we improve national research council?
[24:30] SPEAKER_01: How can we improve and bringing the team together?
[24:33] SPEAKER_01: Now it gets really exciting in terms of what we're doing.
[24:36] SPEAKER_01: So we're constantly evolving and constantly building.
[24:39] SPEAKER_01: Can't be afraid about it.
[24:41] SPEAKER_01: Really smart people to team.
[24:43] SPEAKER_01: It's just so important.
[24:45] SPEAKER_01: And it just it helps.
[24:47] SPEAKER_00: So we've talked about, we're on the fourth pillar now, the collaboration piece.
[24:50] SPEAKER_00: We've got the universities.
[24:51] SPEAKER_00: Are there any other sort of collaboration partners or relate key relationships?
[24:56] SPEAKER_00: That are beyond your core team.
[24:59] SPEAKER_00: I'll call them the, you know, the edge partners that are critical in advancing this.
[25:04] SPEAKER_01: Well, we've worked with a group out of Saskatchewan from building the equipment perspective.
[25:10] SPEAKER_01: And they've been doing some phenomenal things.
[25:13] SPEAKER_01: They've been building water treatment systems for the oil sands for the last 20 years.
[25:17] SPEAKER_01: They built commercial systems to treat water.
[25:19] SPEAKER_01: We've incorporated their equipment and their 20 plus years of know how to put it into our system.
[25:25] SPEAKER_01: That's just been so important.
[25:28] SPEAKER_01: So we've got.
[25:29] SPEAKER_01: And we're working, well, we're working with.
[25:32] SPEAKER_01: In Vancouver, we're bringing on a group that was really critical in developing fuel cells for baller.
[25:40] SPEAKER_01: To build their technology to improve it.
[25:43] SPEAKER_01: We're bringing them on as board.
[25:45] SPEAKER_01: It's exciting when you've got multi provinces, multi disciplines coming to the table.
[25:50] SPEAKER_01: All for one goal is pretty exciting.
[25:52] SPEAKER_00: It is very exciting.
[25:53] SPEAKER_00: I'm excited for all of us, actually.
[25:56] SPEAKER_00: But let's get into the, the where and the why being Canadian and being all Barton, right?
[26:01] SPEAKER_00: We've got, we've talked about all the connections from Vancouver to Calgary and Saskatchewan.
[26:06] SPEAKER_00: But we're working towards a permanent testing facility.
[26:10] SPEAKER_00: You can talk a little bit about that.
[26:12] SPEAKER_00: But my question for you is what strategic advantage does being Canadian have for you and vault success?
[26:19] SPEAKER_00: And perhaps more specifically, even Alberta's strategic advantage?
[26:25] SPEAKER_01: Well, I love it because we build big things out here.
[26:30] SPEAKER_00: I love that.
[26:31] SPEAKER_01: We just do.
[26:32] SPEAKER_01: I mean, people can say what.
[26:35] SPEAKER_01: I mean, the oil says might not be perfect, but that we build big things that were complex operations.
[26:42] SPEAKER_01: I'll point to BC building the largest LNG facility.
[26:46] SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's a big thing that's being built in Western Canada.
[26:51] SPEAKER_01: We have a lot of scientists.
[26:52] SPEAKER_01: We've got a lot of engineers.
[26:54] SPEAKER_01: We've got so much talent out here in Western Canada.
[26:58] SPEAKER_01: And being able to harness it for a new industry is just so exciting.
[27:01] SPEAKER_01: We've done it before and we're going to continue to do it.
[27:05] SPEAKER_01: I think from a Canadian perspective,
[27:09] SPEAKER_01: I view when you're in the Western Canada,
[27:12] SPEAKER_01: you have a bit of a spirit of, I'm going to get this done myself.
[27:16] SPEAKER_01: We're going to do it out here.
[27:18] SPEAKER_01: We don't need to rely on other countries.
[27:20] SPEAKER_01: We can do this ourselves.
[27:22] SPEAKER_01: And we're going to we're taking what we've learned as a team and going to apply it to a big industry.
[27:29] SPEAKER_00: Are there any, I guess barriers are red tape that, you know, culturally politically or economically,
[27:37] SPEAKER_00: that's that that are challenges that you need to deal with?
[27:43] SPEAKER_01: Well, there's one of the things that's really important.
[27:47] SPEAKER_01: And I don't know if this would be considered red tape.
[27:51] SPEAKER_01: But one of the things that I've learned and seen with projects, especially out in the West,
[27:56] SPEAKER_01: is First Nations Consultations.
[28:00] SPEAKER_01: And what I've seen from some other projects in the past is
[28:05] SPEAKER_01: the collaboration happens at the end versus the beginning.
[28:09] SPEAKER_01: And my view is you have to start collaborations at the beginning.
[28:14] SPEAKER_01: I think that when you start, especially with what we're doing with the Denny tie in Northwest Alberta,
[28:22] SPEAKER_01: starting early, making sure that it truly is a collaborative approach as opposed to driving to an outcome when you're far down the road.
[28:31] SPEAKER_01: And I think if you can collaborate early and have an open book and plan the project,
[28:37] SPEAKER_01: plan environmentally what you need to do, plan how you're going to deal with the resources.
[28:42] SPEAKER_01: You start that at the beginning.
[28:44] SPEAKER_01: I believe you're going to have a much better outcome.
[28:46] SPEAKER_01: And so it could be a red tape.
[28:49] SPEAKER_01: If you try and do it at the end, if you do it at the beginning, I think you're going to get great outcomes.
[28:53] SPEAKER_00: And have you gone down that path so far with fault as far as negotiations and collaboration with First Nations?
[29:02] SPEAKER_01: It's been more about collaboration and opening everyone's mind to the opportunity as opposed to negotiation.
[29:08] SPEAKER_01: And I look at it from the perspective that we've got a really big opportunity here.
[29:15] SPEAKER_01: I would rather people come in right at the beginning and understand what we're doing and evolved with us as we grow.
[29:22] SPEAKER_01: I see how much our businesses evolved with our team.
[29:26] SPEAKER_01: I want that same experience as we collaborate with the Denny Ta and others.
[29:32] SPEAKER_01: I think that if we do it together, we're going to have, as I said, much, much better outcomes for ultimate successful projects.
[29:39] SPEAKER_02: Canada's podcast is your gateway to success in the world of entrepreneurship.
[29:44] SPEAKER_02: Start listening today. Canada's podcast.com subscribe now.
[29:48] SPEAKER_00: I'm excited about this. I know you very, very quickly touched on volume.
[29:54] SPEAKER_00: But I just want to bring, I think volume might be part of this question, which is, what's the magic that gives you unwavering confidence in this venture?
[30:06] SPEAKER_01: Well, you have to be able to do it.
[30:09] SPEAKER_01: And so when we ran our pilot, one of the things that we were most excited about is
[30:15] SPEAKER_01: we scaled our technology by 2000 times.
[30:20] SPEAKER_01: That's in my mind, that's a big deal.
[30:24] SPEAKER_01: 2000 times.
[30:26] SPEAKER_01: It's a big deal. We have the confidence that we can build commercial operations because we did that.
[30:33] SPEAKER_01: We ran it in a pilot, but we simulated commercial operations.
[30:37] SPEAKER_01: That was very exciting for us.
[30:39] SPEAKER_01: Being able to, and not just to show the world, but to show ourselves, because we know our technology is scalable.
[30:47] SPEAKER_01: And when we look at our opportunity, I mean, I see us initially starting off a smaller plants and then expanding them.
[30:57] SPEAKER_01: Well, the ability to go from pilot to first stage commercial is about a three time scale up.
[31:04] SPEAKER_01: When we went to our pilot, we did a 2000 times scale up.
[31:07] SPEAKER_01: So we know that this next hurdle isn't a significant one.
[31:13] SPEAKER_01: And that's what we're really excited about.
[31:15] SPEAKER_01: And once we do one commercially, we see opportunities across North America.
[31:20] SPEAKER_00: And so let's just touch on that a little bit. Right now we're, and just for clarification, we are in the pilot phase.
[31:26] SPEAKER_00: We're not at commercialization yet. Is that correct?
[31:29] SPEAKER_00: Correct.
[31:31] SPEAKER_00: Okay. And so what do you see as what's the opportunity that would have near term buy in from industry players?
[31:40] SPEAKER_00: And that that is going to tip us over the tipping point from project to commercialization.
[31:49] SPEAKER_01: Well, there's a couple of things that are really important.
[31:53] SPEAKER_01: The first one was we had to show that we could extract.
[31:57] SPEAKER_01: And we, and especially when you're looking at it in an industry perspective.
[32:02] SPEAKER_01: So there's a lot of players across North America that as part of their own gas produce production, they're producing a lot of water today that has the lithium in it.
[32:12] SPEAKER_01: We needed to show them that we can first of all treat the water to remove organics and contaminants.
[32:20] SPEAKER_01: And then we need to show them that once we've cleaned the water and treated it, we can go into our extraction process.
[32:27] SPEAKER_01: And we've done that multiple times now.
[32:29] SPEAKER_01: And as I said, that 2000 times scale up really triggered industry because they're saying, okay, someone can do this.
[32:37] SPEAKER_01: And so what we need to do is work with oil fields across North America, understand the brine.
[32:46] SPEAKER_01: And when I mean brine and talking about the water every water is a little bit different.
[32:50] SPEAKER_01: Understanding the unique characteristics and run it through our plants.
[32:55] SPEAKER_01: So what we've done where we've advanced to from a business perspective is we ran our pilot.
[33:00] SPEAKER_01: We've now commissioned a demonstration plant so we can test oil field brides across North America.
[33:07] SPEAKER_01: Once we can show and demonstrate and we're going to be doing that in scale, then we're going to start to move to field operations and commercial operations.
[33:15] SPEAKER_01: We're comfortable we can do it.
[33:18] SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
[33:19] SPEAKER_01: And now it's collaborating to show industry that it works for their specific brine.
[33:27] SPEAKER_01: And once we start doing that, then the world in my might opens up quite a bit.
[33:31] SPEAKER_00: And you talked about the commissioning of the testing facility.
[33:34] SPEAKER_00: What sort of timeframe are we looking at for that?
[33:39] SPEAKER_01: Well, everything's been we've commenced a commissioning process.
[33:43] SPEAKER_01: We're in the process of finalizing our installation.
[33:48] SPEAKER_01: And as we get through the end of 2023, we're going to be running our operations with brines across North America.
[33:54] SPEAKER_01: So it's in a very exciting time to be here.
[33:57] SPEAKER_01: I'm excited.
[33:58] SPEAKER_00: So anybody that wants their brine tested to see how much they must in there.
[34:04] SPEAKER_00: Give Alex a call because it's coming.
[34:07] SPEAKER_00: Your testing facility is coming.
[34:10] SPEAKER_00: If I can just shift for sort of one wrap up question, if I could.
[34:16] SPEAKER_00: Lithium is a big one, right?
[34:18] SPEAKER_00: It's far as the, you know, extraction working with infrastructure that's already there.
[34:24] SPEAKER_00: But what, what would you say, Alex, are the next big technical technological shifts in the oil and gas inventory?
[34:32] SPEAKER_00: Because I think when we were talking earlier, said there hasn't been one for quite some time.
[34:37] SPEAKER_00: What do you see coming?
[34:40] SPEAKER_01: Well, I think when you look at reservoirs across North America, and I'll point to where our flagship property is up in rainbow lake.
[34:50] SPEAKER_01: The oil and gas reserves are called at 10 to 15 years.
[34:54] SPEAKER_01: Well, the lithium is 100 years.
[34:57] SPEAKER_01: We have an opportunity for the oil and gas industry to shift.
[35:02] SPEAKER_01: And this is a major.
[35:04] SPEAKER_01: I think this is as we transition over the, you know, to 2050 goals, 2035 goals and 2050 goals.
[35:12] SPEAKER_01: Sometimes people think, well, I guess the oil and gas industry is done.
[35:16] SPEAKER_01: And I look at it like they're going to transition along with everybody else because the lithium's in the brine.
[35:22] SPEAKER_01: So from a technology perspective, I think this is going to be one of the biggest shifts the oil and gas industry has seen.
[35:30] SPEAKER_01: It's a bad word, but 20 plus years ago, fracking was a big industry shift.
[35:35] SPEAKER_01: This is the next big one.
[35:37] SPEAKER_01: And it's right there in front of them.
[35:40] SPEAKER_01: So it's an opportunity that.
[35:43] SPEAKER_01: They're going to take advantage of once they see that groups like us can do the extraction and get into commercial production.
[35:50] SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
[35:50] SPEAKER_00: I definitely see this as putting putting Canada on not just on the map.
[35:55] SPEAKER_00: I mean, we're already on the map so much in oil and gas, but you know, as as being a bit of a greening the future.
[36:03] SPEAKER_01: Without a doubt, and it's exciting.
[36:05] SPEAKER_01: I mean, we need to constantly move forward.
[36:09] SPEAKER_01: We need to transition.
[36:12] SPEAKER_01: And again, I'll go back to a comment you made right earlier on.
[36:16] SPEAKER_01: It's right in front of us.
[36:18] SPEAKER_01: And so let's take advantage of what we have in Canada.
[36:22] SPEAKER_01: And we've got a huge industry.
[36:25] SPEAKER_01: So let's leverage that industry to be able to transition to a greater future.
[36:30] SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
[36:32] SPEAKER_00: Alex, is there anything that you need?
[36:33] SPEAKER_00: What do you need now?
[36:34] SPEAKER_00: What can we, well, how can we rally behind you to just give you some energy and support?
[36:39] SPEAKER_00: How can we help?
[36:42] SPEAKER_01: I think the most important thing for me is to get the message out to talk to more people.
[36:50] SPEAKER_01: Sometimes in Canada, people look at an industry that's new and say, well, has it been done somewhere else?
[36:56] SPEAKER_01: I think we need to champion it together.
[36:58] SPEAKER_01: We have an opportunity here.
[37:00] SPEAKER_01: So if we can take advantage of it, let's do it.
[37:03] SPEAKER_01: And the more awareness, the better.
[37:05] SPEAKER_00: Oh, right.
[37:06] SPEAKER_00: Well, sign me up.
[37:07] SPEAKER_00: I sign me one of your champions.
[37:09] SPEAKER_00: And how can people get a hold of you post podcasts?
[37:12] SPEAKER_00: What's the, what's the best way?
[37:14] SPEAKER_01: Well, the best way is probably through our website, which is full with him.com.
[37:20] SPEAKER_01: We are a public company.
[37:22] SPEAKER_01: We're traded in Canada and the US.
[37:24] SPEAKER_01: Our symbols, VLT.
[37:29] SPEAKER_01: I'm on every single news release on the website.
[37:33] SPEAKER_01: Love to talk to people.
[37:34] SPEAKER_01: It's so important.
[37:36] SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
[37:36] SPEAKER_00: Alex, appreciate your time.
[37:38] SPEAKER_00: It's a very exciting venture.
[37:40] SPEAKER_00: I look forward to hearing this space.
[37:42] SPEAKER_00: And I suspect that we might even have to have another podcast down the track when, you know,
[37:47] SPEAKER_00: when we've reached out commercialization to both celebrate and expand.
[37:50] SPEAKER_00: So maybe we'll put that on our bucket list.
[37:53] SPEAKER_01: I look forward to it.
[37:55] SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
[37:56] SPEAKER_01: I appreciate it.
[37:56] SPEAKER_01: Thanks.
[37:57] SPEAKER_00: Thanks Alex.
[37:58] SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
