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TRANSCRIPTION WITH SPEAKERS
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[00:00] SPEAKER_01: It's Calgary's Podcast on the Canada's Podcast Network.
[00:14] SPEAKER_01: Hello, this is Mario Toneguzi coming to you today with Calgary's Podcast, a member of Canada's
[00:21] SPEAKER_01: Podcast Network where we talk to the entrepreneurs who are making it happen in Calgary, Alberta,
[00:26] SPEAKER_01: so you can listen, discover and engage. Today's guest is Wendy Jufrey, who is
[00:33] SPEAKER_01: principal of Wendy Ellen Inc and a co-author of the book, The Only HR Best Practice You'll
[00:41] SPEAKER_01: Ever Need. Hopefully I got that right, right? You did? Okay, thanks Wendy. Thanks for joining us today.
[00:48] SPEAKER_01: Tell us a little bit about yourself first of all and what Wendy Ellen Inc is and what you do.
[00:55] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so Wendy Ellen Inc is an HR consulting firm. We call ourselves basically a generalist firm,
[01:02] SPEAKER_00: which means that we can provide HR services from when our employee walks in your door or even
[01:08] SPEAKER_00: before, we'll help you find that employee all the way through to when they eventually leave.
[01:13] SPEAKER_00: And so Wendy Ellen Inc has been in business for, in 2020, it'll be our 15th year.
[01:19] SPEAKER_00: We work mainly with small to mid-sized business in Calgary, Edmonton and we do some U.S.
[01:26] SPEAKER_00: affiliate source kinds of things as well. So I had my start in the HR world at Shell Canada,
[01:32] SPEAKER_00: so I was all big business HR and then once I did my first contract and a small to mid-sized
[01:39] SPEAKER_00: business realized that's where I wanted to be and didn't really look back. So just been growing
[01:44] SPEAKER_01: since then. How did you get involved in this area initially? Well, it's quite funny because right
[01:50] SPEAKER_00: out of school I was hired at Shell Canada and I was hired as a writer. I've got a Bachelor of Science
[01:55] SPEAKER_00: in Psychology, minor in English and I was hired as a technical writer and it was read in the late
[02:01] SPEAKER_00: 80s, early 90s where another big bus Ted and they got rid of all those basic and salary type
[02:09] SPEAKER_00: departments. So I was moved into human resources and worked in human resources at Shell Canada for
[02:14] SPEAKER_00: 14, 15 years. So it kind of just happened I guess is the best way to say it and like I said,
[02:21] SPEAKER_01: I've really never looked back. You know, when you look at Calgary these days, tell me what the
[02:27] SPEAKER_01: benefits are of doing business and being an entrepreneur in Calgary. Well, I think Calgary has a
[02:34] SPEAKER_00: lot of opportunities for entrepreneurs. There's a lot of us, that's for sure. Right now, a lot of
[02:41] SPEAKER_00: availability on space and actually a lot of availability with great resources. There's a lot of good
[02:46] SPEAKER_00: people out there. So it's entrepreneurs. I mean, they're starting up a business or looking to
[02:52] SPEAKER_00: broaden your business. There's a lot of good people to use from. I also think Calgary has that entrepreneurial
[02:57] SPEAKER_00: spirit, Emmington as well, but where and you know, it's such a small world and once you get into that
[03:04] SPEAKER_00: entrepreneurial world, there's a lot of people willing to assist in Calgary. So all you need to do
[03:10] SPEAKER_00: is be willing to reach out, get involved in networking professionally, also personally through volunteer
[03:17] SPEAKER_00: work, that kind of thing. And there's just I find great opportunities and great people. What about the
[03:25] SPEAKER_00: obvious challenge, of course, is the economy, the new federal government. I don't think I have to
[03:32] SPEAKER_00: talk too much on that. So I think, you know, for industry as a whole, that's a challenge. You know,
[03:38] SPEAKER_00: I think starting a business is a challenge at any point. It's but with Calgary, you do have those
[03:45] SPEAKER_00: resources to do so. But I think, yeah, I think the biggest challenge right now is sort of the
[03:51] SPEAKER_00: and part of it too is the mood. So I think we have to kind of as entrepreneurs to keep on going.
[03:58] SPEAKER_00: Like I think Alberta is historically known for. So I think that's the obvious biggest challenge.
[04:05] SPEAKER_00: What's your book about? So our book is about, it demystifying HR and it's really we get so many
[04:13] SPEAKER_00: times about what are your HR best practices and where I would love someone to show me what they
[04:20] SPEAKER_00: are because in our world of small to mid-size business, there is no one-size-fits-all. So our
[04:27] SPEAKER_00: view of the only HR best practice is you have to take a look at the individual that's sitting
[04:32] SPEAKER_00: across the table from you in a situation and the situation, which could be, you know, your business,
[04:39] SPEAKER_00: their the history they're bringing in, what's going on in their lives, what's going on in your
[04:44] SPEAKER_00: lives. So it's really bringing it back to that you're speaking to an individual not an accountant
[04:50] SPEAKER_00: or employee number one, two, three. And it's really we take a very simplistic view of HR. So it's
[04:56] SPEAKER_00: it's that kind of thing. I mean, I can't tell you the number of times we get a situation and we say,
[05:01] SPEAKER_00: have you talked to the employee and the employers like, no, no, you can't talk to the employee, whereas
[05:06] SPEAKER_01: that's that's our first go to. Let's talk. This is a surprise you that in this day and age, I guess,
[05:13] SPEAKER_01: that HR component of businesses and companies, many of them still don't get it right.
[05:19] SPEAKER_00: It really does surprise us. And that's one of the reasons we wrote the book. It's it's very
[05:24] SPEAKER_00: much common sense to me and my co-author, but I think what's happened in the world is so many people
[05:31] SPEAKER_00: are afraid of saying the wrong thing. So instead of saying the wrong thing, they don't say anything
[05:37] SPEAKER_00: at all, which in a lot of ways can be construed as saying the wrong thing. So it's really it's
[05:43] SPEAKER_00: surprising in one way, but on the other hand, people just want to stay out of court. They want to
[05:47] SPEAKER_00: stay out of legal troubles. And they don't want to offend anybody. And you have to, I mean, the reality
[05:52] SPEAKER_00: is you do have to be very careful nowadays, right or wrong more. So then you used to have to be.
[05:58] SPEAKER_01: So I think that's really a big issue. What's your vision for your company as you look forward?
[06:05] SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm in a personally we're in a growth mode, year 15, and we've been growing what I would call
[06:13] SPEAKER_00: organically, just client by client, consultant by consultant. But I think, you know, the place I'm in
[06:19] SPEAKER_00: now, I want to strategically grow. So we have formed a strategic partnership. And my focus now is
[06:26] SPEAKER_00: on growth. So I would really like to be that sort of go to HR firm in Alberta for those kind
[06:34] SPEAKER_00: of businesses that don't need full time HR, don't have the budget or the need for full time.
[06:39] SPEAKER_00: And we really just want to make it simple. That's kind of the premise. Don't make it more than it is.
[06:45] SPEAKER_01: As an entrepreneur, what has been your biggest business challenge in those 15 years?
[06:52] SPEAKER_00: You know what? I hate to say it, but I think it's me. And the reason I say that is because I'm
[06:57] SPEAKER_00: a much a doer and a self-proclaimed bit of control freak. So sometimes I get in my own way.
[07:04] SPEAKER_00: And I think it's really stepping back. I mean, we entrepreneurs talk about this all the time,
[07:10] SPEAKER_00: working on the business as opposed to working in the business. And I think when you talk about
[07:15] SPEAKER_00: what's the vision, it's no, I've really got to step back and work on the business. And I've got a
[07:20] SPEAKER_00: great team of people to work in the business. So it's now time to really concentrate on strategic
[07:27] SPEAKER_01: growth opportunities. Looking back at when you first started the business, what do you wish you
[07:35] SPEAKER_00: would have known then that you do now? I think a lot of it is a mindset that I can be as big or as
[07:41] SPEAKER_00: small as I want to. I think that's one thing. And to, and also I don't have to do everything myself
[07:48] SPEAKER_00: to realize that the training and mentoring is particularly what I love to do. I think the other
[07:54] SPEAKER_00: thing is it's okay to turn down business. If you know it's not the right fit, where I've tried to
[08:01] SPEAKER_00: make relationships fit knowing that they're not the right fit. And I think that's one of my biggest
[08:07] SPEAKER_00: lessons is right at the beginning. You typically do know when a client is not the right fit and just
[08:12] SPEAKER_01: being able to say that. That's a tough thing though for entrepreneurs, isn't it because?
[08:17] SPEAKER_00: Especially when, exactly. I mean, not especially when you're starting out or, you know, and it's
[08:23] SPEAKER_00: also a bit, to me, it's also more of a, I feel like a bit of a failure when that happens, whereas I
[08:28] SPEAKER_00: think if I look at it right, it would be the other way around. That's the right decision. But yeah,
[08:33] SPEAKER_00: it's tough because you're turning down money. And you got to do it in a way that you don't burn
[08:37] SPEAKER_00: any bridges or, you know, there's a, you just have to be really careful. I know it well.
[08:44] SPEAKER_01: I've gone through that, that's abated my own mind many times.
[08:50] SPEAKER_01: You've obviously talked a lot of people over the years. Is anything resonate with you as the
[08:57] SPEAKER_00: best single piece of advice you've ever received? Yeah, I think there is. I worked closely with
[09:03] SPEAKER_00: the business development fellow one time at a client that we were at. And he always said to me,
[09:09] SPEAKER_00: never use the word, but there's lots of other words you can use, however, never the last, but he said,
[09:15] SPEAKER_00: I just used it, but has a, as a connotation that is often negative and can turn what could be more
[09:22] SPEAKER_00: of a positive discussion into something. So I've really tried to remember that. It's hard. I think
[09:29] SPEAKER_01: it's a good piece of advice. Interesting. If you weren't doing what you're doing now, what would you
[09:35] SPEAKER_00: be doing? Do you think it's a career? As a career, I always had an interest in being a lawyer.
[09:41] SPEAKER_00: So that was always, I actually thought about going to law school a little while ago, and then I
[09:45] SPEAKER_00: thought about, wow, it's a long road. So I put that one aside, but I think professionally that would
[09:51] SPEAKER_01: probably be my other calling. Okay. Yeah. It's for that. Like what appeals to you? I think it's,
[09:58] SPEAKER_00: it's really more the challenge. I'm always looking for a challenge, but I think once again,
[10:04] SPEAKER_00: in the HR world where we try and look at people being treated fairly and ethically,
[10:10] SPEAKER_00: while also keeping in mind the confines that people have to get a business done. There has to be
[10:15] SPEAKER_00: work done, but we're always looking at making sure that there's equity and fairness. And I think
[10:20] SPEAKER_00: probably those values of mine resonate with the thought of being a lawyer would be similar.
[10:26] SPEAKER_00: And I think, I would be more criminal back kind of law. It's not corporate law. It doesn't really
[10:31] SPEAKER_00: interest me. I've read a few contracts and I don't think I could do that for a living. So
[10:36] SPEAKER_01: right. I'm going to switch gears here and ask you some personal stuff. Everybody has a bucket list
[10:43] SPEAKER_01: these days, a personal bucket list. What is on top of yours right now? Well, this is kind of an
[10:49] SPEAKER_00: odd thing. Top of my bucket list is I've always wanted to have a horse, a couple horses, so that
[10:56] SPEAKER_00: that could be my downtime on the weekend. So when I used to ride a lot as a kid, so that's probably
[11:02] SPEAKER_00: top of my bucket list. It's that I understand that they take a lot of time. And right now it's just
[11:07] SPEAKER_00: that I don't have that time, but that and probably more traveling. So what do you do then to sort of
[11:15] SPEAKER_01: create that work like balance for yourself? Like what are some of your passions or interests hobbies?
[11:22] SPEAKER_00: In the summer, it's a lot easier because we like to get out and do stuff on the weekends in the
[11:26] SPEAKER_00: summer, but I'm a bit of a fair-weathered person. So the way to turn a bit tougher, I work out, work out
[11:32] SPEAKER_00: a lot almost every day. A lot of that with my spouse or my kids. So that is really a great way,
[11:38] SPEAKER_00: obviously, for a lot of reasons to regenerate your energy and that sort of thing
[11:44] SPEAKER_00: spends some quality time with your family. So that's a big one of mine. But it's really also,
[11:49] SPEAKER_00: I just like to connect with my consultants, my colleagues, and on a different level other than
[11:55] SPEAKER_00: talking about specific projects. And it's interesting what kind of ideas can come up from just
[12:01] SPEAKER_01: sitting around having a glass of wine and chatting. True. Are you a reader? It's funny because in
[12:07] SPEAKER_01: these days, this day and age, whenever I ask this question, a lot of people say, well, I don't read
[12:13] SPEAKER_01: books anymore. Do you read books? I actually read a lot. I love books. What are you reading right now?
[12:19] SPEAKER_00: Well, right now I'm reading the testaments with the Margaret Outwood book. Yeah, I love reading.
[12:25] SPEAKER_00: Have any reader full of books. There's nothing like a nice, fresh, hard copy book, though.
[12:30] SPEAKER_01: And is there any particular kind of book that you'd like to read?
[12:34] SPEAKER_00: Well, I prefer fiction. It's all kinds of fiction. To be honest, I'm not a big business book reader.
[12:41] SPEAKER_00: I think that's why we wrote our books sort of more storytelling because I find those books
[12:46] SPEAKER_00: easier to read. And some of the business books I've read that way, I can get through them.
[12:51] SPEAKER_00: And I understand them more than an academic type of business books. So when I read, I like to
[12:58] SPEAKER_01: be taken somewhere totally else and my real life. Now, if someone was to ask you to describe
[13:06] SPEAKER_01: yourself in one word, what would it be and why? I really think the word would be committed.
[13:12] SPEAKER_00: Because no matter what I do, whether it's volunteerism, which I do a lot of,
[13:16] SPEAKER_00: you know, any project I take on or any commitment, I just 100% in. And that's the same with business,
[13:23] SPEAKER_00: clients work. And you know, the reality is I expect that of other people I come in contact with too.
[13:29] SPEAKER_00: So I would have to say I committed it would cover all aspects of my life.
[13:35] SPEAKER_01: Now, you mentioned earlier, traveling. Is there any one play outside of Calgary? Is there
[13:40] SPEAKER_01: any one place in the world that you would consider your favorite place?
[13:45] SPEAKER_00: So far, I've got a lot of places I want to see, but so far probably Tuscany. Tuscany, I've been there
[13:51] SPEAKER_00: a couple times and it's just the peacefulness, the beauty, of course the wine, you know, the food.
[13:59] SPEAKER_00: It's just, yeah, and I just find the people, the villages. It's probably my favorite place right now.
[14:05] SPEAKER_01: But I got a lot to see still. Being Italian, I know it well, yes.
[14:11] SPEAKER_01: And the wine too. Do you have a daily routine that you follow almost like without fail?
[14:20] SPEAKER_00: Unfortunately, yes, I think I'm a little boring that way. I get up early. I'm an early
[14:24] SPEAKER_00: riser, 530. And then I like having my time in the morning, I get a bit of work done, where I
[14:31] SPEAKER_00: either replan emails, pre-plan projects, and I like to sit there and read the paper and watch
[14:36] SPEAKER_00: the news at the same time. I find I'm one of those old school that really like the physical paper
[14:42] SPEAKER_00: with a cup of coffee, nobody's up. And it gives me something what I like about it is it's, it
[14:49] SPEAKER_00: gives you something to always ice break if you meet someone new or you have a new client meeting.
[14:54] SPEAKER_00: You've got something in your head that can start a discussion. So that's really my morning.
[14:59] SPEAKER_00: And then it's work, work, work. And like I said, I work out almost every evening.
[15:04] SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna present a scenario to you and see how you respond. Okay, so imagine a beautiful
[15:10] SPEAKER_01: tropical island in the middle of the ocean with only one phone booth and no internet.
[15:16] SPEAKER_01: We're gonna drop you off there. There's gonna be no technology at all. But at any time, you can
[15:21] SPEAKER_01: use the phone booth to call us and a boat will come and pick you up. How long do you think you
[15:27] SPEAKER_01: would last before making that phone call? And what do you think you would do spend your time while
[15:33] SPEAKER_00: you were there? Well, that's a good question. As long as there's really no big, huge, creepy bugs
[15:39] SPEAKER_00: and stuff like that, I probably could spend a lot of time there. I actually don't really get the
[15:45] SPEAKER_00: opportunity to 100% unplug even obligation. I think most entrepreneurs would relate to that. So
[15:51] SPEAKER_00: not being able to, I would probably say I'd last a week. You know, I would just probably sleep a
[15:59] SPEAKER_00: lot, relax, sit by the water. Hopefully there's some good fruit. Really just enjoy the quiet, I
[16:08] SPEAKER_01: think is really what would be wonderful. Okay, great. Is there anything you'd like to add Wendy
[16:14] SPEAKER_00: before you leave us today? You know, I think just talking sort of in my field. You know, I think it's
[16:20] SPEAKER_00: Calgary's a great place to work. I think Calgary's a great place to be an entrepreneur. I have a lot
[16:25] SPEAKER_00: of wonderful business connections and friends who are also entrepreneurs. The other thing I think that
[16:31] SPEAKER_00: you know, we as entrepreneurs have to remember and business owners, whatever is, we've got a lot
[16:36] SPEAKER_00: of generations working in the workforce together right now. And I think it's super important to
[16:41] SPEAKER_00: embrace them all and they all have their own value and strengths and challenges at the same time.
[16:46] SPEAKER_00: And I think it's going to make for a really interesting working world moving forward. As they say,
[16:51] SPEAKER_00: yet another generation is moving into that working world. I'm really just in a great place right now
[16:57] SPEAKER_01: being an entrepreneur in Calgary. Okay, thanks for joining us today when you're in our guest on Calgary's
[17:03] SPEAKER_01: podcast. Hey there, thanks for taking the time today to listen to Calgary's podcast on Canada's
[17:11] SPEAKER_01: podcast network. We hope you enjoyed the show today. Make sure you sign up for our newsletters and
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[17:25] SPEAKER_01: Canada's podcast. You can also check out what other entrepreneurs are doing across the country.
[17:32] SPEAKER_01: See you next time.
