Value Community, Connection and Genuine Relationships

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[00:35] SPEAKER_01: costs. Welcome to Canada's Entrepreneur. Where we talk to the entrepreneurs who are making it happen
[00:41] SPEAKER_01: across Canada and deliver the news, trends, knowledge, and opinions from entrepreneurs and business
[00:49] SPEAKER_02: influences across the country. Hi everyone and welcome to Canada's Entrepreneur. The podcast
[00:57] SPEAKER_02: where we shine a spotlight on the bold thinkers, builders, and purpose-driven leaders shaping our
[01:03] SPEAKER_02: economy and our communities. I'm your host Rebecca Higgs coming to you from Halifax, Nova Scotia.
[01:10] SPEAKER_02: I'm the founder of DIY Mom and Matriarch Productions, a creative entrepreneur and a renovator,
[01:15] SPEAKER_02: and someone who is passionate about philanthropy. That's why today's guest is someone whose career
[01:22] SPEAKER_02: is one to be admired. Joanne Bath is the founder of Kitty Wake, a purpose-driven company rooted in
[01:28] SPEAKER_02: community creativity and coastal storytelling. After more than two decades of leading major philanthropic
[01:36] SPEAKER_02: organizations like the IWK Foundation and DMRF, Joanne is now channeling that experience into
[01:42] SPEAKER_02: building something uniquely her own. She's helped to raise millions for health research,
[01:48] SPEAKER_02: launch powerful partnerships across the Maritimes, and continues to be a champion for thoughtful
[01:53] SPEAKER_02: leadership, community impact, and women-led innovation. So welcome, Joanne, to the show. I'm so
[02:00] SPEAKER_02: excited to have you here. Thank you so much for having me. So before we get too deep into Kitty Wake,
[02:07] SPEAKER_02: can you tell us a bit about yourself and your journey and what led you here? Yeah, I mean, how far
[02:12] SPEAKER_03: back do we go? I grew up in small town Newfoundland, and that's really shaped everything from here.
[02:20] SPEAKER_03: Really growing up on the ocean in an outport really had a profound impact on who I am,
[02:26] SPEAKER_03: and having a mother who was very community-driven and wanted her whole life to be
[02:31] SPEAKER_03: centered around giving back really influenced me and my sister and how we give back. We give back
[02:36] SPEAKER_03: different ways in the community, but it really influenced who we are, and led to me thinking I
[02:42] SPEAKER_03: wanted to be a social worker, applying for doing a degree in social work, working in social work
[02:47] SPEAKER_03: for eight months, and then going, this is not for me. I applied for a job at a Boys and Girls Club,
[02:53] SPEAKER_03: where the title was resource development coordinator, so I thought I'd be helping families find
[02:59] SPEAKER_03: resources, but I was fundraising, and I didn't even know people fundraised. I didn't even know it was
[03:04] SPEAKER_03: a career. I read the book Fundraising for Dummies, and from there, just started fundraising and
[03:10] SPEAKER_03: asking people for money, and over the years, from there, I went to the IWK, they had a much
[03:16] SPEAKER_03: more sophisticated program, and really threw me into a position where I was responsible to raise
[03:21] SPEAKER_03: $6 million a year. I was managing six people at 25, and I really didn't know what I was doing,
[03:28] SPEAKER_03: but I did my best, and I had amazing mentorship. They really invested in me from a professional
[03:34] SPEAKER_03: development perspective, provided me paid coaching, but also internal mentorship, and then from
[03:39] SPEAKER_03: there, I moved on to the Dell Medical Research Foundation, where I was there for 10 years,
[03:44] SPEAKER_03: helped them build their fundraising sophistication, eventually, big name CEO. So that's my background
[03:51] SPEAKER_03: in traditional philanthropy, and then I left that role as CEO when the organization merged with
[03:57] SPEAKER_03: another, and I took some time to really reflect and decide who I wanted to be next at 46 at the time.
[04:07] SPEAKER_03: I sat back and said, I'm going to work for 20 more years. What is it I want to do? Because I fell
[04:11] SPEAKER_03: into that career, and now I want to be very purposeful about what I needed next to be happy and
[04:17] SPEAKER_02: fulfilled. So you were fundraising for 20 years before you started your own entrepreneur. I was,
[04:22] SPEAKER_03: yeah, I was 20 years, very traditional fundraising, and honestly, I thought I'd be there forever.
[04:28] SPEAKER_03: I thought I'd be the CEO of this charity, and then the CEO of a bigger charity, and the CEO of a
[04:32] SPEAKER_03: bigger charity. That was my, I had this idea in my head. I had this ladder in my head that I
[04:38] SPEAKER_03: needed to climb, and you know, I had a lot of support along the way to get there, but then when
[04:44] SPEAKER_03: that organization merged, I was, I was very burnt out. I really loved the work we were doing,
[04:49] SPEAKER_03: and I was grieving the loss of that role. And so I took a year off to decide what I wanted to be.
[04:57] SPEAKER_03: I invested in a coach who would challenge me, a coach who wasn't in philanthropy, wasn't in business.
[05:03] SPEAKER_03: He was just a coach to help people find their future desire and future self, and I worked with him
[05:08] SPEAKER_03: for a full year, and we came up with a matrix of what needed to exist for me to be happy going
[05:13] SPEAKER_03: forward. And I actually put it in an Excel spreadsheet, and every opportunity that came, I put
[05:18] SPEAKER_03: into that spreadsheet, and I rated it. And ultimately, starting my own business was the thing
[05:23] SPEAKER_03: that really afforded me all of the things I wanted to achieve going forward. Yeah. So in terms of
[05:30] SPEAKER_02: the fundraising work that you had been doing before, what was it about your personality that was
[05:35] SPEAKER_02: so successful in that? Is it like a natural salesman ability, or is it just like, how do you communicate
[05:41] SPEAKER_02: the need that you have when you, when you were going out there and looking for that $6 million?
[05:46] SPEAKER_03: Yeah. So there's very similar
[05:52] SPEAKER_03: linings in every year of fundraising, because there's a lot of different ways you can fundraise.
[05:55] SPEAKER_03: There's annual giving, which is your direct mail piece. It's all about marketing.
[06:00] SPEAKER_03: And then there's plan giving, which is about working with people to ask them to put you in their
[06:04] SPEAKER_03: wills, which is very sensitive work. And then there's major guests, which could be like trying to
[06:09] SPEAKER_03: align strategically with a corporate entities as corporate social responsibility policy,
[06:15] SPEAKER_03: looking at what if foundations trying to accomplish or working with individuals like
[06:19] SPEAKER_03: high net worth individuals to try and match what you're doing to what their desires are for
[06:23] SPEAKER_03: change in society. So there are those, you know, personality streams through all of that. So for
[06:30] SPEAKER_03: me, I think what's really helped my success is I'm not scared to ask for help. I'll always be
[06:37] SPEAKER_03: vulnerable and open and park my ego. That really has helped me in fundraising to learn to keep
[06:43] SPEAKER_03: learning and to grow, being genuine, having a sense of humor and being able to connect with people.
[06:49] SPEAKER_03: Like I'm a genuinely curious people. When I was in the dating scene, I couldn't wait to go on a
[06:55] SPEAKER_03: date because I want to learn about that person. I want to know who they were. And also I wasn't scared
[06:59] SPEAKER_03: of rejection, which in fundraising, you have to be not scared of rejection. You know, there's a lot
[07:04] SPEAKER_03: of nose. There's different kinds of nose as Bernard Ross would say. There's like no, not now,
[07:10] SPEAKER_03: no, not that much, no, not that little. You have to be able to read the know. So common sense is
[07:15] SPEAKER_03: really important in philanthropy. And also strategy. A lot of people think, philanthropy is like,
[07:21] SPEAKER_03: you know, making people really sad about something so that they open their wallet and give,
[07:26] SPEAKER_03: but it's really about strategically finding people who want to accomplish something with an
[07:31] SPEAKER_03: organization that's trying to accomplish that thing and trying to marry up and do matchmaking.
[07:36] SPEAKER_03: That's really what it is. And if you, if you approach it as transactional and trying to
[07:40] SPEAKER_03: twist people's arms, it just doesn't have the same long-term growth opportunities. Like if I bring
[07:46] SPEAKER_03: in a donor at $1,000 and I can grow them to a million dollar gift if they have that capacity,
[07:51] SPEAKER_03: that's a 10-year game probably. Like, you know, it could be, it could be two-year game, but
[07:56] SPEAKER_03: understanding that strategy and that long-term play. And the other thing I've done very differently.
[08:01] SPEAKER_03: In philanthropy is that it applied an entrepreneurial mindset. So I don't see charity as any different
[08:07] SPEAKER_03: than any other business. You're selling a product. The product might be social change or healthcare
[08:13] SPEAKER_03: or research or housing or environmental change, but you are selling a product to someone who
[08:19] SPEAKER_03: has money to invest in that product. And so I've always taken that entrepreneurial mindset to even
[08:24] SPEAKER_03: how you grow the organization. So you still have to have good data. You have to have a good marketing
[08:29] SPEAKER_03: communications plan. You have to have good sales team. It's very similar to any for-profit with
[08:36] SPEAKER_03: the SLAB being you're selling hope and emotion and connection. So it's a different product you're
[08:42] SPEAKER_03: selling, but you still have to know what your product is. Yeah, that's really interesting because
[08:47] SPEAKER_02: you were talking about in philanthropy and in the fundraising sort of initiative, you have to be
[08:52] SPEAKER_02: okay with the nose and the rejection. So do you think that that prepared you to be an entrepreneur?
[08:56] SPEAKER_02: Or is there something else that drove you to be an entrepreneur that maybe in your personality,
[09:03] SPEAKER_02: you were naturally ready to be an entrepreneur even though you mentioned that your family,
[09:07] SPEAKER_02: no one in your family had been entrepreneurs before before you. So could you tell me a little bit more
[09:12] SPEAKER_02: about how you made that leap to become an entrepreneur? Yeah, it was terrifying. It would have been easier
[09:19] SPEAKER_03: just to take another job in another organization and get a good pension and you know do that for the
[09:25] SPEAKER_03: next 20 years, but I was feeling really drawn to entrepreneurship. I just wanted to create something
[09:30] SPEAKER_03: that was my own and over that year I was off. I toyed with a bunch of ideas. I thought, well, I could
[09:36] SPEAKER_03: travel the world and bring back products from amazing female artisans around the world and sell
[09:42] SPEAKER_03: it here. And so I tested that for a couple weeks and I didn't like it. And then I tested something
[09:46] SPEAKER_03: else. And so what I was doing though was giving away free fundraising advice. People were calling me
[09:52] SPEAKER_03: and asking me for free advice. I was sitting on boards and in fundraising that is something we do.
[09:59] SPEAKER_03: If someone from another organization calls me that's technically a competitor and they want a copy
[10:03] SPEAKER_03: of a policy or they want to know how I how I did such and such event or get advice on who might
[10:08] SPEAKER_03: care about something, we give away advice for free in fundraising all the time to our colleagues. We
[10:13] SPEAKER_03: just shore up the industry and support each other. So transitioning to asking people to pay for that
[10:20] SPEAKER_03: was a big mindset shift for me. Because I've spent 20 years in the industry, I've had really good
[10:25] SPEAKER_03: support and mentorship from people who came before me. So then transitioning to asking people
[10:30] SPEAKER_03: to pay for my expertise was it was a pretty big mindset for me. But the leap really came when
[10:39] SPEAKER_03: I was just looking around and saying, what are the opportunities in front of me? What should I do next?
[10:43] SPEAKER_03: I had the gift of the year off between my last job and when I launched the business. So I had a
[10:48] SPEAKER_03: dollar of 100 reflect on what I wanted and I knew that I wanted to add value to the world,
[10:53] SPEAKER_03: make the world better not worse and what I did next. I knew I wanted it to be fun.
[10:59] SPEAKER_03: Like that was important to me that I wake up and go, this is fun, let's go do this. I wanted to
[11:03] SPEAKER_03: work with people that I look forward to seeing every day, which meant when you think about clients
[11:08] SPEAKER_03: choosing who you're getting to work with, who's really trying to do good in the world, I want to
[11:12] SPEAKER_03: make some money and I also wanted it to be flexible. So I could work when I wanted
[11:16] SPEAKER_03: to. Which is not really how it turns out when you're an entrepreneur because you are working 12
[11:21] SPEAKER_03: hour days and weekends and holidays. But you know, you get to choose where you work from,
[11:27] SPEAKER_03: which I really love. So the leap end was it was scary because even though I was applying all,
[11:33] SPEAKER_03: I was running a business. I mean, the Dal Medical Research Foundation, we were generating 8.5
[11:38] SPEAKER_03: million a year in revenue from philanthropic revenue and we had a $19 million investment
[11:44] SPEAKER_03: pool that I was managing with the team and a board. So it was a big business. But just the
[11:51] SPEAKER_03: mind shift of saying, well, I'm going to start a business. I didn't even know how I didn't know
[11:55] SPEAKER_03: how to incorporate a business. I didn't know like how do you even legally do that? As I said, no one
[12:00] SPEAKER_03: of my family had ever started a business. And so I didn't even know who to call. So what I did was
[12:07] SPEAKER_03: I leaned into people who really loved me and cared for me, who had started businesses and I just
[12:11] SPEAKER_03: went to them very vulnerability and said, I think I want to do this, but I have no idea what I'm doing.
[12:16] SPEAKER_03: Can you tell me where to start? And when you ask and you're vulnerable, people will tell you.
[12:21] SPEAKER_03: They will enjoy a hand and they will give you referrals. And that's where I started.
[12:26] SPEAKER_02: So can you tell the listener what Kitty Wake does? Yeah. So Kitty Wake is a philanthropic consulting
[12:33] SPEAKER_03: firm. We're primarily working with charities, but we do have a couple of like medical research
[12:39] SPEAKER_03: companies in our pool or medical research programs that because I've worked in medical research
[12:43] SPEAKER_03: for 10 years, the builds up a really strong expertise in that space in terms of how to generate
[12:49] SPEAKER_03: revenue to the fund research. But Kitty Wake primarily is in the philanthropic space. We work with
[12:54] SPEAKER_03: charities who have a really great mission and inform major categories. So the first is revenue
[13:01] SPEAKER_03: growth. So they might want to reduce their reliance on government funding and pull in philanthropy,
[13:07] SPEAKER_03: whether that be major gifts or direct mail or plan giving. We also help them build their strategy
[13:13] SPEAKER_03: for the organization. So help them say, if we're if we're level setting, what's the next five years
[13:18] SPEAKER_03: look like for us? What are all the things we need to do to succeed? That can include everything
[13:22] SPEAKER_03: from how do we build our board? How do we build our database? And then we also do talent development.
[13:28] SPEAKER_03: So we do recruitment in philanthropy. We do coaching and workshops and training, which I love doing
[13:34] SPEAKER_03: training and workshops and just giving people what I've learned and what I've done wrong or what
[13:38] SPEAKER_03: I've done well in my philanthropic career. And then finally, we do donor communications. So a lot
[13:45] SPEAKER_03: of organizations struggle with how to communicate to donors, how to report back, how to attract donors
[13:50] SPEAKER_03: to their cause. So we do a whole bunch of work in donor communications as well. And we've been I've
[13:57] SPEAKER_03: been in this business for about a year. It really started to take off this past September. And
[14:04] SPEAKER_03: and I re-branded to Kittywake. And a Kittywake is a bird that I grew up hearing at
[14:08] SPEAKER_03: South Medveder Mendo as a kid. And it really grounds me and keeps me humble and focused on who I am
[14:14] SPEAKER_03: personally. But also a Kittywake is a bird that lives between the intersection of Blue Sky and
[14:20] SPEAKER_03: Ruffsea. And that's right where charities are. Charities are trying to Blue Sky every day. Let's
[14:25] SPEAKER_03: save the world. Let's your cancer. Let's save this forest. Let's, you know, put this beautiful
[14:30] SPEAKER_03: art out into the world. And they're Blue Sky all the time. But they face these ruffsees of
[14:35] SPEAKER_03: economic turmoil, you know, boards that don't want them to spend to make money, you know, a world
[14:43] SPEAKER_03: that thinks we shouldn't pay fundraisers well. And then the other thing is charities also live
[14:51] SPEAKER_03: light Kittywakes in a colony. I mean, we're all in this together. Whether that colony is your
[14:56] SPEAKER_03: organization with your board and you're, you know, the people you serve or whether it's the philanthropic
[15:01] SPEAKER_03: world, we're all in it together. And Kittywakes live on the edge of a cliff in a little, they nest
[15:06] SPEAKER_03: on the edge of a cliff in a little nest with winds all around them. And so they have to be resilient,
[15:13] SPEAKER_03: which is one of our values. They have to be adaptable and have to be connective. And
[15:19] SPEAKER_03: charities do that. They are adapting all the time. And we saw that, for example, during the
[15:24] SPEAKER_03: pandemic, the charities that did really well, adapted their stories, they adapted their messaging,
[15:29] SPEAKER_03: their services they were providing. And so that's really what Kittywakes is all about. We, we really
[15:35] SPEAKER_03: want to show up for our clients in the same way we show up for, you know, in the philanthropic
[15:41] SPEAKER_03: industry for our donors. You know, we want to be transparent with our donors. We want them to
[15:45] SPEAKER_03: feel like they're the only donor and they're getting all of our attention and focus. And we want,
[15:51] SPEAKER_03: we want our clients to know that it's the same. We want them to feel very valued. We want to be
[15:56] SPEAKER_03: transparent and focused with them. And their winners are winning their losses are lost. And I truly
[16:01] SPEAKER_03: feel it when a client gets a no from a donor, like I feel that pain with them and then help them
[16:06] SPEAKER_03: adapt and move forward. And so we want to apply those same philanthropic values to our client work.
[16:12] SPEAKER_02: So what is the business model for Kittywake? You guys are are consulting or you're coaching or
[16:20] SPEAKER_03: how does this all work? Well, we're doing all of that. We're consulting. We're coaching. We're
[16:25] SPEAKER_03: doing recruitment. So every model looks a little different. But for example, we work with a number
[16:31] SPEAKER_03: of hospital foundations across Canada. And those engagements really focus on assessing their annual
[16:37] SPEAKER_03: giving program, which is like the core of how customers come into their organization. And helping
[16:43] SPEAKER_03: them audit their data and understand where they're winning, where they're losing, where the
[16:48] SPEAKER_03: opportunities exist. And they're like from a retention perspective or an acquisition perspective.
[16:52] SPEAKER_03: And then we help them build a 12 month or up to three year plan for how they're going to acquire
[16:57] SPEAKER_03: new donors and how they're going to retain them. So that's one model. So they pay off to come in
[17:02] SPEAKER_03: and do the data audit, do assess and then use all of our experience to build a new plan. But then on
[17:07] SPEAKER_03: the other hand, we're working with a couple of clients on major gifts. So we're working with a
[17:18] SPEAKER_03: heartbeat of the community for urban indigenous people and for settlers. So we're working with them on
[17:24] SPEAKER_03: teaching them how to fund raise and teaching them how to build their pipeline and project manage
[17:29] SPEAKER_03: so they can get a mass for gifts and raise the money they need. Mount St. Vincent, we've just
[17:34] SPEAKER_03: started working with them on their campaign as well. And they're going to be building a new child
[17:38] SPEAKER_03: study center. So that was really interesting. But again, we're going to help them recruit volunteers
[17:42] SPEAKER_03: and manage their pipeline until their story really effectively. And then we have clients who were
[17:50] SPEAKER_03: recruiting their executive director or were coaching their CEO or were coaching their
[17:54] SPEAKER_03: internal talent on how to go out and close gifts. So that's every model is different.
[18:00] SPEAKER_03: The website does list all of our services. But really, we are trying to show up for the client
[18:06] SPEAKER_03: and lend them additional capacity and then give them the capacity to do it after release. Because I
[18:11] SPEAKER_03: want to be the type of consultant that hands you the capacity, teaches you how to do it and you
[18:16] SPEAKER_03: might not need us for that. You might use for something else, but I don't want to continually,
[18:22] SPEAKER_03: I don't want to build a relationship with clients where they continually need us to show up. I
[18:25] SPEAKER_03: want them to do it on their own and really grow from what we teach them. Help them become self-sustaining
[18:30] SPEAKER_02: in terms of reaching out and getting that fundraising. So how do you protect your energy and your
[18:36] SPEAKER_02: heart and all of this? Because I imagine that people that are in philanthropic positions like
[18:41] SPEAKER_02: yourself or other folks that are going out asking for money, there must be a lot of bleeding
[18:46] SPEAKER_02: hearts out there because I'm sure they got into this industry because they cared. So you probably
[18:50] SPEAKER_02: have a lot of deep feelers that you're coaching or working with. So what do you do to protect your
[18:55] SPEAKER_02: energy and what's the advice that you give to the folks that you're coaching in order to protect
[19:01] SPEAKER_03: their spirit and their soul throughout this process? That's really hard. That's it. Because when you
[19:08] SPEAKER_03: get into this industry, you care about what you're doing. You care about like if you go to work for
[19:14] SPEAKER_03: an organization that's doing mental health work in children to give children better access to care
[19:18] SPEAKER_03: and you're having a hard time raising money for that. Oh, that is, that hurts, right? And if you
[19:23] SPEAKER_03: have to lay off parts of your team or you know, hesitate on growing a new program, say for you know,
[19:29] SPEAKER_03: in Alzheimer's care, it does hurt. But the best advice that I give to charities is build your plan.
[19:36] SPEAKER_03: Have a plan that's like a five year strategic plan is boring as that sounds. You have to know what
[19:40] SPEAKER_03: your five years look like. You have to know what resources you need to accomplish that. Get really
[19:44] SPEAKER_03: clear. And then you have to get it and do the work in a way that is actually very, you know,
[19:49] SPEAKER_03: you play a lot of rigger to it. You it's just isn't that happened by half and stance. You have to run
[19:54] SPEAKER_03: it like every other business. And if you run it that way, you will have much more success. There will
[19:58] SPEAKER_03: be nose. There will be there will be hard times. But you just have to keep pushing forward and
[20:04] SPEAKER_03: treating your organization like a business while still feeling that. I mean, we get to me amazing
[20:09] SPEAKER_03: people. You look at an organization like we are young. They're an organization here in Atlanta
[20:14] SPEAKER_03: Canada that serves Atlantic and Ontario. And they grant wishes to seniors and the whole intent of
[20:20] SPEAKER_03: their organization is to reduce ages and then the world and help us see that as we age, we're still
[20:25] SPEAKER_03: worth a lot. We still mean a lot to society and we can still have a great life while reducing
[20:31] SPEAKER_03: social isolation and helping people see that you can still go and do things and live a life as
[20:35] SPEAKER_03: you age and that we're still worth something. That's hard work. Almost everybody that they work with
[20:41] SPEAKER_03: will pass away at some point. You know, so they see a lot of loss. And like when I was at the
[20:47] SPEAKER_03: IWK, there was a lot of pain. We got to know those families. So well, you know, those children who
[20:53] SPEAKER_03: are going through cancer treatment, you know, we get to know those families so well and we feel
[20:58] SPEAKER_03: they're paying with us. But honestly, it's what drives you to do more. It's what drives you to
[21:03] SPEAKER_03: be better. It's what drives you to look for more in the world. And you know, there's a lot of
[21:10] SPEAKER_03: people think of charity. It's just people, you know, people doing work over there. But when you look
[21:13] SPEAKER_03: at the entire world and the positive, the people in the world who are trying to make positive change,
[21:19] SPEAKER_03: charities have to exist to do that. They were created to do that. They were created to be
[21:22] SPEAKER_03: catalyst for change. And so it's, change is not easy. And so I think anybody who enters this world
[21:28] SPEAKER_03: knows it or they learn it really quickly. It is not an easy world. But you just have to find the
[21:33] SPEAKER_02: guts and determination to keep moving. Yeah. So what have some of the greatest challenges that
[21:41] SPEAKER_02: you've faced when launching your own business? And how did you handle that? Yeah. So I am, I had,
[21:49] SPEAKER_03: I think the benefit of a bit of a soft launch. So I first joined another firm. They invited me to
[21:55] SPEAKER_03: join. We did that for a few months and it wasn't working. The story of how all of our talents
[22:00] SPEAKER_03: came together wasn't quite melding. While I let that firm started another with one of my very good
[22:06] SPEAKER_03: friends. And about three months in, he was like, ah, insulting is not for me. It's just, it's not
[22:11] SPEAKER_03: working. So I was like, okay, I'll do it on my own. So it helped that I had like people to learn
[22:16] SPEAKER_03: from and then a partner to do it with. And then I jumped on my own. So that was nice. But it was
[22:23] SPEAKER_03: also a challenge because you know, once that happened, I was like, oh, maybe I'm not built for this.
[22:28] SPEAKER_03: Maybe I'm the problem. Maybe, maybe it's me. And maybe I don't really know what I'm doing. And I
[22:33] SPEAKER_03: think I'm better than I am. And my husband and I sat down and I was having this discussion with
[22:39] SPEAKER_03: him. And he said, no, you can do this. Like I don't even want to talk about it. You can do it.
[22:43] SPEAKER_03: Think about what's holding you back. And really when I was about that, you were having a little
[22:47] SPEAKER_03: imposter syndrome going on there. That was 100%. 100% I was like, I, I just didn't even know where to go
[22:54] SPEAKER_03: from there, especially after my, you know, my partner, the two of us were really close. And once he
[22:59] SPEAKER_03: left, I was like, I don't know if I want to do this by myself. I don't know if I have the energy.
[23:05] SPEAKER_03: But then I hired a coach and I kind of said to myself, you've got to coach your whole career.
[23:10] SPEAKER_03: Like at the IWK, when I started there, I had a coach who was a Buddhist who helped me focus on
[23:15] SPEAKER_03: mindfulness and business. And then I had a coach as CEO at Dile Medical Research Foundation who
[23:21] SPEAKER_03: helped me learn how to manage my board and how to, you know, step into that big leadership role
[23:27] SPEAKER_03: in the organization. And then I kind of thought, well, maybe I need a business coach. So I did,
[23:31] SPEAKER_03: I hired Dave Reynolds from Ruminate. And he really helped me stop thinking about getting a couple
[23:37] SPEAKER_03: contracts and maybe doing some stuff to building something much bigger, to thinking much bigger about
[23:43] SPEAKER_03: what this could be. And not only did he kind of pump my tires and say, you know, you're an expert
[23:48] SPEAKER_03: in this field. You have something unique you can bring to the world. But also he just helped me
[23:53] SPEAKER_03: when I have a question like, I don't know how to do this Dave. And I don't know who else to ask.
[23:58] SPEAKER_03: He can help me navigate, think it through, you know, I was, my pricing was really low. And he's
[24:04] SPEAKER_03: like, why are you pricing so low? You'll never run a business on that pricing model. And he said,
[24:08] SPEAKER_03: until you try and push the limit, you don't know what people will pay for your service. But people
[24:11] SPEAKER_03: are calling you and asking for your help. So you need to build a pricing model that works in order
[24:17] SPEAKER_03: to sustain and grow your business. And one of the greatest things he did at that time was he said,
[24:24] SPEAKER_03: you need to go away and build your AAA list. And what he meant by that was to sit down,
[24:30] SPEAKER_03: pen to paper, I'm right a list of all the people who care about you, believe in you, I want you
[24:35] SPEAKER_03: to succeed, who will give you referrals. And just start meeting with them. And as a fundraiser,
[24:40] SPEAKER_03: that's the easiest thing in the world, reaching out and asking for a meeting. And I'm not scared
[24:44] SPEAKER_03: to say to people, I need referrals. Will you help me build this? And so soon as I started doing that,
[24:50] SPEAKER_03: it just started to roll. I just, there are people who, a couple of people, especially who really
[24:55] SPEAKER_03: believed in me and let me their network, which is exactly what you do in fundraising. You go to,
[25:00] SPEAKER_03: the way most people are successful in major gift fundraising is you go to a donor who already
[25:05] SPEAKER_03: loves you and gives to you. And you say, would you help me go to three more people who love this
[25:10] SPEAKER_03: organization, who might love this organization, lend us your reputational bank account. And when
[25:15] SPEAKER_03: you do that, you just, the network's open. And so I asked people to lend me their reputational bank
[25:20] SPEAKER_03: account. And they did. And that really started to snowball and grow from there.
[25:25] SPEAKER_02: I remember my dad telling me that you only get so many favors in this lifetime. And you have to be
[25:31] SPEAKER_02: really careful with how many favors you ask from people. Do you find that or do you have like an
[25:35] SPEAKER_02: endless well of favors that are owed to you from the 20 years that you worked in this industry?
[25:40] SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I don't know if anything's owed to me, but I definitely have built really good will with
[25:45] SPEAKER_03: people. I genuinely approach life with, how can I build this relationship and support this person?
[25:52] SPEAKER_03: As opposed to what can I get out of this relationship? I've always been a relationship first,
[25:56] SPEAKER_03: how can I help other people? And so I think people know that I am genuine in my want to help these
[26:01] SPEAKER_03: charities succeed. And they've seen the value of my work. They've been with me. Like Janet
[26:06] SPEAKER_03: McMillan, who owned a national PR, is one of my greatest cheerleaders and champions. And I've learned
[26:12] SPEAKER_03: so much from Janet about managing stress and grace and how to handle relationships. And she was
[26:19] SPEAKER_03: the first person I went to and said, Janet, I think I'm going to do this. What do you think? She's like,
[26:23] SPEAKER_03: absolutely, we're going to do this. I'm going to help you. So we meet regularly. She gives me advice.
[26:27] SPEAKER_03: I don't feel like anyone thinks it feels like they owe it to me. They're just really willing
[26:32] SPEAKER_03: because I love spending time with them and they enjoy spending time with me and it's fun.
[26:37] SPEAKER_03: Like we just make it fun to build something. But early on, I definitely went to a few people who I
[26:42] SPEAKER_03: thought would be supportive. And their advice was, yeah, I don't bother. I don't think this is really
[26:47] SPEAKER_03: for you. And so that was stuck in my head for a while because there were people I really respected.
[26:52] SPEAKER_03: And I had to think, well, to evaluate that and should I listen to that or should I just keep
[26:56] SPEAKER_03: pushing and I just kept pushing her was hard, but I did. Yeah, I had the same experience too. We're
[27:01] SPEAKER_02: kind of people were telling me, that's not a good idea. And then you think if you had listened to
[27:05] SPEAKER_02: that instead of listening to your gut, then where would you be today? So, exactly. Maybe you
[27:12] SPEAKER_02: could touch on that. Like what are some of the things that you've had to do, the internal work that
[27:17] SPEAKER_02: you've had to do to get yourself to this place? Because it sounds like you had to look internally in
[27:21] SPEAKER_02: terms of overcoming the imposter syndrome. Are there other ways that you have sort of
[27:29] SPEAKER_02: taken a look inside of you that have helped you become the entrepreneur you are today?
[27:34] SPEAKER_03: Yeah, absolutely. So, with the Dalmatical Research Foundation, I was the CEO there for three years
[27:39] SPEAKER_03: and then they merged with another organization. And what was very good for the organization that
[27:46] SPEAKER_03: took us over, it was hard on my head to think, oh, I was the CEO when that happened. Did I fail?
[27:53] SPEAKER_03: Did I, what did I do wrong? And I also, as I said, I was really tired when that merger happened.
[27:59] SPEAKER_03: It was a lot of work. We had to transition a lot of assets. And so, I decided I was going to take
[28:03] SPEAKER_03: a full year off, a midlife gap. And it was, oh, the best thing I've ever done. If anybody gets a
[28:09] SPEAKER_03: chance to do that, do it. Take the time, go enjoy it. Weirdly, my husband left his job at the same time,
[28:16] SPEAKER_03: and he took a year. So, we took a year together, which was such a beautiful gift. We traveled, I woke
[28:21] SPEAKER_03: up every morning, read a book, went for a walk with a dog, you know, made a healthy meal. I just lived
[28:27] SPEAKER_03: a year of life. And so, starting a business was really hard on the head because I thought, well,
[28:34] SPEAKER_03: I just want to keep doing that. I just want to enjoy my life. I don't know if I want to work that
[28:38] SPEAKER_03: hard anymore. So, I had to build up to this mindset of wanting to work hard again, because I've always
[28:43] SPEAKER_03: been a hard worker, grinder, given everything to the organizations that I support and the people
[28:48] SPEAKER_03: that I love. So, I had to shift my mindset to getting back to being, you know, a grinder and
[28:55] SPEAKER_03: working hard. But one of the things that's happened is I've gone so far the other way. I had that
[28:59] SPEAKER_03: beautiful year of relaxation and enjoyment and travel. And now I'm working, you know, 12 hour days,
[29:05] SPEAKER_03: and on a weekend, I saw, like, think about, because I love what I do. So, thinking about all the time,
[29:09] SPEAKER_03: and I'm supporting a lot of different charities doing a lot of different things. So, I'm constantly
[29:15] SPEAKER_03: thinking about their causes and what we can do and how we can build it. And so, I've got to come,
[29:20] SPEAKER_03: I'm working right now on coming back to balance because I'm giving too much to the business,
[29:24] SPEAKER_03: because I'm energized by it. It's so fun. You know, we're growing. I've added an employee
[29:31] SPEAKER_03: in February. We've got six subcontractors. We work with fractionally. We're hiring three more
[29:36] SPEAKER_03: positions coming up. So, I see so much opportunity in this business, both for KittyWake, but also
[29:43] SPEAKER_03: for our clients. So, it's been that big shift of going from being really chill to working really
[29:49] SPEAKER_03: hard. And then you're right, like the imposter syndrome is real. And I think women, particularly,
[29:57] SPEAKER_03: struggle in what used to be, maybe still is, a male dominated world of starting businesses.
[30:04] SPEAKER_03: And we think, oh, can I do it? Can it, you know, I go back to being this little girl from
[30:09] SPEAKER_03: LaCee where I grew up. It's a little town in Newfoundland. And I go back to being that little girl.
[30:16] SPEAKER_03: I'm like, can this little girl from LaCee really start a business and run it? Like this is crazy.
[30:20] SPEAKER_03: And so, I did have a therapist at one point who said, when you walk into a meeting, tell the
[30:26] SPEAKER_03: little girl to get behind you and that you had this. Yeah, that's like the shadow work.
[30:32] SPEAKER_03: Shadow work's so good. And so, sometimes I walk into a meeting and I like, as I immediately start
[30:37] SPEAKER_03: to sweat, I'm like, overwhelmed. And I'm like, what am I doing in this meeting with this person?
[30:42] SPEAKER_03: But then I tell that little girl to get behind me. And immediately, I feel a sense of confidence
[30:46] SPEAKER_03: and protection. And so, you know, not only have I done a lot of work with a coach, but therapy is
[30:52] SPEAKER_03: still so important to me, you know, as we grow as human beings. And also, the other thing that's
[30:59] SPEAKER_03: really helped me shift to entrepreneurship is just I have a growth mindset. I always have known.
[31:04] SPEAKER_03: I'm not perfect. I can always be better. And it's just deciding what you want to focus on at that
[31:10] SPEAKER_03: point in time because there's so many aspects of yourself that can grow and be better. So, when you
[31:16] SPEAKER_02: had to add new employees to your company, was that scary? Like, are you now thinking, oh my gosh,
[31:23] SPEAKER_02: I have to carry somebody else's salary and make enough money? Because I, or how do you,
[31:27] SPEAKER_02: how do you make that leap? And are you seeing the benefits from it already? Or is it, is it,
[31:34] SPEAKER_02: yes, like, so you can kind of move forward? Or are you feeling like the intimidation factor of having
[31:39] SPEAKER_03: to bring in that income for other folks? Yeah. In January, I was looking at the pipeline and,
[31:45] SPEAKER_03: you know, submitting our piece and proposals. And I could see that if I closed these three,
[31:51] SPEAKER_03: I wouldn't have the capacity to do it. But if I only closed one of them, I wouldn't have the money
[31:55] SPEAKER_03: to pay the person. So, I just went for it. I just said, you know what? I won't take pay. I'll pay
[32:00] SPEAKER_03: that person. And I'll pay them from that contract and I can afford them for a year. So, I just did
[32:05] SPEAKER_03: math. I did the math and I went, I can afford to pay one person. And I really took my approach to
[32:12] SPEAKER_03: hiring has always been higher slow. Higher slow, make sure you have the right person. And for me,
[32:19] SPEAKER_03: in all of my companies, it's been important that, like, in charitable world and now, it's been
[32:25] SPEAKER_03: important that that person really has my value set, that they're going to approach clients with the
[32:30] SPEAKER_03: same carefulness and trust and transparency that I am. I want, I always want to hire people who
[32:38] SPEAKER_03: are hard workers and care as much as I do about the business. But I like hiring people who are
[32:44] SPEAKER_03: different than me. Have a different mindset, have different skills, different experiences,
[32:49] SPEAKER_03: and are going to teach me something as I teach them. So, that's always been my approach.
[32:54] SPEAKER_03: So, the first hire for me, her name is Mackenzie Derby Shire. I've known Mackenzie for a long time.
[32:59] SPEAKER_03: She was at Hospice Halifax doing really amazing work there to fundrais. And so, I brought her
[33:05] SPEAKER_03: in as our strategic growth director. And she is just working so hard. She loves what she does. She
[33:11] SPEAKER_03: says, you know, I feel like I'm in a fake job because it's so fun. And that's what I want. That's
[33:16] SPEAKER_03: what I want my employees to feel. They're in a fake job because it's fun and we get to do cool things.
[33:22] SPEAKER_03: And I think, you know, a lot of people that I worked with at the Dell Medical Research Foundation,
[33:27] SPEAKER_03: I'm still very close with. Many of them came to our brand launch a few weeks ago. And while I
[33:32] SPEAKER_03: understand, you know, as a leader, you are managing people and you have to really focus on being that
[33:37] SPEAKER_03: leader. I also believe you just have to be a human. And you have to make real connection with people
[33:42] SPEAKER_03: and actually care about them in their lives. So, it was terrifying to be responsible for someone
[33:47] SPEAKER_03: else's life. And, you know, Mackenzie was leaving a job. She'd been in for quite a while. She had
[33:52] SPEAKER_03: a lot of benefits there. And she just come to start with a startup that was just figuring it out.
[33:57] SPEAKER_03: So, I sat down with her and said, I'd love for you to come work with me. However, you have to know
[34:01] SPEAKER_03: there's a risk here. Like, this is brand new. We've only been in business like six months or, you know,
[34:07] SPEAKER_03: a little bit longer. And she was down for it. She was ready. So, I knew she was the right person.
[34:12] SPEAKER_03: And now, we've built a pretty great book of business and we need to hire a campaign manager
[34:18] SPEAKER_03: or work with us on the mount. And for that one, I won the contract before I hired. So, I will hire
[34:24] SPEAKER_03: someone full time, but I'll have another contract by the time that two-year contracts are up.
[34:28] SPEAKER_03: And I'm hiring a customer service person so that we can really lean into making sure customers
[34:33] SPEAKER_03: have a superb, delighted experience with us. But it is like it's scary to have someone
[34:40] SPEAKER_03: else's life in your hands. It was easier at DMRF because I had an operational budget. I didn't
[34:45] SPEAKER_03: have to fundraise to pay people. We had an endowment. I didn't have to keep stay up at night and worry
[34:50] SPEAKER_03: if I could pay people. I'm not worried about that right now because that first contract was the
[34:55] SPEAKER_03: leap. And now, Mackenzie manages clients. She helps me with business development and she does
[35:02] SPEAKER_03: marketing. So, she's really helped me blow the business up. And I'm really grateful for her.
[35:08] SPEAKER_02: So, when you hire, is it more important for you to find somebody that has experience or somebody
[35:12] SPEAKER_02: that has the right attitude that you can teach how you want to do your business?
[35:18] SPEAKER_03: It has to be a little both. But I'd prefer to hire someone with the right attitude in the upside
[35:25] SPEAKER_03: because I can teach them. It depends on the project. Like some projects, they have to be pretty
[35:29] SPEAKER_03: well-baked to go in and do the work because they might be dealing with the president of a university
[35:35] SPEAKER_03: or you've got to have a certain level of ability to go in and be able to do that. But with Mackenzie,
[35:42] SPEAKER_03: she never worked in the four-profit world. So, there is a lot of learning for her about that,
[35:49] SPEAKER_03: but she's open and she's just a sponge and she wants to learn. And so, I want people to open
[35:54] SPEAKER_03: the learning. They don't think they know it all and they can help grow this business alongside me.
[36:00] SPEAKER_02: So, a couple of the takeaways that I have gathered from this conversation already are that
[36:05] SPEAKER_02: you mentioned hiring a coach. You mentioned hiring people slowly to work for your team,
[36:13] SPEAKER_02: taking your time. You also mentioned having a growth mindset. Is there any other key points or
[36:20] SPEAKER_02: advice that you would give folks that are looking to become entrepreneurs or start their own business
[36:24] SPEAKER_03: that we haven't touched on yet? Yeah, no. All of those things are exactly what I wanted to touch on today.
[36:31] SPEAKER_03: And I think the other thing is lean into your network. Don't be scared to ask people for help.
[36:36] SPEAKER_03: Like the triple A's you said, right? The triple A's, yeah. And you know, I had a moment's
[36:42] SPEAKER_03: where I was like, no, I didn't want to burden these busy people to help me. Like why would I can't
[36:47] SPEAKER_03: do that to them? But as soon as I asked them, they're so hungry and willing to be there for me and
[36:51] SPEAKER_03: to help me. And so, I would just say, don't be scared to look stupid. Don't be scared to look like
[36:56] SPEAKER_03: inexperienced. Nobody really knows what they're doing until they learn what they're doing. And
[37:01] SPEAKER_03: that has been a big lesson for me, even as I'm working with very senior leaders. They'll look at me
[37:05] SPEAKER_03: and say, I don't know what I'm doing. I'm like, well, I do. I know fundraising. I can tell you that.
[37:09] SPEAKER_03: I can teach you that and then you can go do it. So, I think the other point is don't be scared to ask for help.
[37:14] SPEAKER_03: I've asked for help my whole career and it's really gotten me far. So, I would say that for most
[37:19] SPEAKER_03: entrepreneurs seek help. You're not in a loan. I know there's a, you know, people talk about this
[37:24] SPEAKER_03: loneliness epidemic and entrepreneurship, but it doesn't have to be that way. Just lean into other
[37:28] SPEAKER_02: people and let them help you. You seem to enjoy going to, you know, networking events and meeting
[37:35] SPEAKER_02: other entrepreneurs and women. Is that something that you're just, you've always enjoyed doing?
[37:39] SPEAKER_02: You've had to kind of become better at doing. I've always enjoyed it. I mean, in fundraising,
[37:45] SPEAKER_03: we're always networking. Even if it's like at your board meeting or, you know, at a boring reception or,
[37:53] SPEAKER_03: you have to do it. You have to. You have to be out there. We went to an event last night that I
[37:57] SPEAKER_03: wasn't sure would be like strong networking for us at a client's office. We went because we
[38:02] SPEAKER_03: love the client. It's a Dartmouth General Hospital Foundation. They're an amazing group of people
[38:06] SPEAKER_03: doing really great work. The chamber was hosting an after hours networking event there. So,
[38:11] SPEAKER_03: we went for that. I wasn't sure would be the right crowd for our business, but it so was. There
[38:14] SPEAKER_03: were so many great people in the room. People who were generally curious about what the Dartmouth
[38:20] SPEAKER_03: General was doing. So, they were philanthropically mindset already. But yeah, I enjoy social. I
[38:28] SPEAKER_03: did much more before the pandemic. I became a bit more introverted through the pandemic. So,
[38:36] SPEAKER_03: the hardest part is deciding which thing to go to. Because there are so many different things
[38:40] SPEAKER_03: happening. This is an event city. So, it's deciding where you want to spend your energy and money.
[38:45] SPEAKER_02: That's the hardest part. Do you have a favorite icebreaker when you're networking or meeting
[38:50] SPEAKER_03: somebody for the first time? I'm, you know, in fundraising and in social work, we're taught to
[38:55] SPEAKER_03: ask questions and to be quiet and learn from other people. I just did a LinkedIn post on this,
[39:02] SPEAKER_03: but we so often go in and we go hard about ourselves and what we're doing and what our businesses
[39:06] SPEAKER_03: that it's much better. People remember what they say more than what you say. So, if you can go
[39:12] SPEAKER_03: in and say, tell me about yourself. Tell me even in philanthropy, especially with a donor, you
[39:15] SPEAKER_03: go in and say, tell me why you care about this cause or tell me about a cause you really care about.
[39:21] SPEAKER_03: People will tell you so much about themselves. And so, I just ask people about themselves,
[39:26] SPEAKER_03: who they are, what they believe in, what they find fun as opposed to. What do you do for work?
[39:32] SPEAKER_03: It's like, what do you do for fun? Like, what's your day to day look like? And people light up and
[39:36] SPEAKER_03: it makes the conversation much less stressed. Like, it's more fun when you're just engaging and
[39:43] SPEAKER_03: getting to know another human being. So that's kind of my iceberg. I'm sure people probably don't
[39:48] SPEAKER_02: like to feel like there's an ulterior motive when you're talking to them either, right? So, if you're
[39:51] SPEAKER_02: just trying to connect with people on a, let's get to know each other. What do we have in common?
[39:56] SPEAKER_02: Yeah. Yeah. So, where do you see Kitty Wake five years from now?
[40:01] SPEAKER_03: I don't know. We're growing right now. Like I said, we have, there's two of us. We're going to be
[40:07] SPEAKER_03: four of us soon. And then six subcontractors who work tractionally. So, it's a big, pretty big
[40:13] SPEAKER_03: team of people. We're right now we're serving clients nationally. We have clients out in Vancouver,
[40:19] SPEAKER_03: in Ontario, and all over Atlantic, including Newfoundland, Newfoundland, and most of Nova Scotia.
[40:26] SPEAKER_03: So, I see us continuing to grow. I see us narrowing in on our business offerings. So, right now we
[40:33] SPEAKER_03: offer a whole bunch. I see us maybe narrowing a little bit, become more specialized. But I want to
[40:38] SPEAKER_03: continue, as we grow, I see us becoming a bigger business. But I want us to keep the value of
[40:46] SPEAKER_03: connection. Like, connection with our clients is so important to me. And I don't ever want a client
[40:52] SPEAKER_03: to feel like they're just in a cookie cutter situation where we're just doing what we've done
[40:56] SPEAKER_03: for everybody else. I want them to feel very customized and connected with us. And so, we'll be
[41:02] SPEAKER_03: we'll be continuing that. But I think we'll grow more clients across Canada. We're looking at
[41:07] SPEAKER_03: Europe. I think that's a little ways out. But we'll continue to grow inside of Canada and grow
[41:11] SPEAKER_03: our team and deepen our expertise. You know, we want to be doing more workshops. I want to be
[41:16] SPEAKER_03: doing more training. So, there is some training planning that's happening that I think will help
[41:21] SPEAKER_02: the philanthropic world significantly. So, are most of your clients coming to you by word of mouth,
[41:26] SPEAKER_02: or if somebody that is hearing this podcast wants to hire you for their philanthropic work,
[41:33] SPEAKER_02: how would they reach out to you or what's the best way to get it? Yeah, they can just reach out to
[41:37] SPEAKER_03: me directly. KittyWakeco.com is our website. I'm wrong linked in as well as KittyWake.
[41:43] SPEAKER_03: They can just reach out to me and have a conversation. I'm the person. I want to be connected to
[41:46] SPEAKER_03: every client. I want to deeply understand what they're doing and what they're trying to accomplish.
[41:50] SPEAKER_03: And sometimes clients will come and think they need one thing and a different thing. So,
[41:55] SPEAKER_03: I want to be able to do, you know, I spend a lot of time in discovery, really understanding who
[41:59] SPEAKER_03: they are, where they want to go. So, they would just reach out to me. Most of our clients are coming from
[42:05] SPEAKER_03: referrals or from word of mouth. Like someone says, oh, I work with these people you should.
[42:10] SPEAKER_03: Most is coming from that. We don't do a ton of marketing at this point. We are going to start
[42:15] SPEAKER_03: doing that soon. But yeah, mostly it's word of mouth. And we love to have more clients all
[42:21] SPEAKER_03: across Canada in all of those spaces that I've talked about. Okay, well, before we end this conversation
[42:27] SPEAKER_02: and our time together on the podcast, I want to ask you five rapid fire questions.
[42:33] SPEAKER_02: Your game for it. Okay, so my first question is if you weren't doing what you're doing now,
[42:40] SPEAKER_03: what would you be doing instead? I'd be retired in traveling the world.
[42:47] SPEAKER_02: So not the, I remember you saying one night when we were hanging out that you would have been
[42:51] SPEAKER_02: surgeon or some kind of doctor that you love blood and guts, but not that. No, no, I thought that,
[42:57] SPEAKER_03: but I don't really like to stay up at night. Okay, you don't want to do those all nighters.
[43:01] SPEAKER_02: What do you know is nice, yeah, so. Okay, what book are you currently reading or podcast
[43:06] SPEAKER_03: you're loving right now? Any recommendations? You know, I'm really loving the Amy Polar podcast.
[43:12] SPEAKER_03: It has nothing to do with entrepreneurship. The very first episode she said, I'm not here to help
[43:17] SPEAKER_03: you grow. I just want to have a hang. And when I've had a really busy day and I need it,
[43:23] SPEAKER_03: you know, I just need a laugh and I just need to shut down from work. I don't want to be listening
[43:28] SPEAKER_03: to business podcasts reading business books every night. So I really like when I'm driving
[43:32] SPEAKER_03: to my car, I listen to something that's a bit more light, a bit more interesting.
[43:36] SPEAKER_03: There are a few books we're reading right now. One is called Train Your Board.
[43:40] SPEAKER_03: So I want to want to deepen my expertise in training. So I'm reading that book right now.
[43:45] SPEAKER_03: And there's another one called Excellence in Fundraising. That's really great for organizations
[43:48] SPEAKER_03: to pick up. It's a textbook. They'll be prepared. But yeah, right now I'm really,
[43:54] SPEAKER_03: I'm working so much so I'm trying to take in things that aren't work.
[43:58] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'm the exact same way. When life is stressful and work is busy, I need to watch
[44:02] SPEAKER_02: comedies and listen to comedies. I can't go and stress myself out about what's happening in the
[44:08] SPEAKER_02: world any further. Yeah, exactly. Are you a morning person or a night owl?
[44:15] SPEAKER_03: I'm a night owl naturally. But I'm kind of forced myself into being a morning person.
[44:21] SPEAKER_03: Do you have a morning routine? I'm working on a new morning routine,
[44:26] SPEAKER_03: outfit six. I have a master's work at some morning. I like working out at Afterwork.
[44:29] SPEAKER_03: It just I have more energy and excitement for it. But you know, when I would really do the
[44:35] SPEAKER_03: best work, it's like midnight. I can write. That's my did all my studying and university was like
[44:39] SPEAKER_03: midnight to 2 a.m. So definitely night owl. But I value my sleep, especially as a 47 year old woman.
[44:47] SPEAKER_03: I need that eight hours so that I feel really fresh the next day. So even though I'm an I know I love
[44:52] SPEAKER_02: sleeping. I'm with you. So if you had to pick one word to describe yourself, what would it be and why?
[45:01] SPEAKER_03: I don't know if I can pick one. I'm definitely conscientious. It's I think a lot about
[45:08] SPEAKER_03: the work I'm doing with clients. And if it's enough, am I doing enough? Are they getting enough
[45:13] SPEAKER_03: value? I think conscientious would probably be what most people would say about me.
[45:19] SPEAKER_03: Yeah. And yeah, I think that's probably the best one. And my last question actually might be
[45:26] SPEAKER_02: kind of the answer of the let this one that you just gave me because I was going to ask you what's
[45:30] SPEAKER_02: keeping you at that night these days. That's keeping you. That's conscientious. That's probably
[45:34] SPEAKER_03: thinking about. Yeah, you know, I'm I'm an underpromissor and over-delivered. I wouldn't say
[45:43] SPEAKER_03: promise clients really good work and I want to do better than I've promised. I always want to give
[45:48] SPEAKER_03: them great value because especially in the charitable world, they're spending really precious dollars
[45:53] SPEAKER_03: to hire me. And so I want to just, you know, blow it up for them and do really great work. And so
[46:01] SPEAKER_03: that's what keeps me up. And I'll wake up at 3 a.m. and go, oh wow, I really should get on that. I
[46:06] SPEAKER_03: really should do that better. It's I'm because I have a growth mindset. I always want to be better
[46:11] SPEAKER_03: and I always want to offer high value to clients. Do you keep a little no pad beside you at
[46:15] SPEAKER_03: beside the bed at night? So you can I don't everybody tells me to do that. I probably should. But I
[46:21] SPEAKER_03: just think if I turn on the light and start writing I'm up forever and my dogs are up and yeah.
[46:26] SPEAKER_02: So everybody tells me to do that. I make it a try. I can write in the dark. I think when I'm
[46:31] SPEAKER_02: thinking of something just to get it off my mind because otherwise I'm gonna lay there and keep
[46:34] SPEAKER_02: repeating it in my head. Don't forget it by the morning. Anyway, me too. I do exactly that.
[46:39] SPEAKER_02: Well, Joanne, I just want to thank you so much for being here today. Your story is such a great
[46:44] SPEAKER_02: reminder that entrepreneurship isn't just about starting a business. It's about leading with
[46:49] SPEAKER_02: intention, creating impact and staying connected with what really matters. So for everyone listening,
[46:56] SPEAKER_02: if you want to learn more about kitty wake, we'll drop the links in the show notes so you can follow
[47:00] SPEAKER_02: along with Joanne's work and connect with her. I'm Rebecca Higgs and this has been Canada's entrepreneur
[47:06] SPEAKER_02: where you meet the founders driving Canada's future. Don't forget to just to subscribe to our newsletter
[47:13] SPEAKER_02: Canada's entrepreneur.com and hit follow on YouTube, Spotify and Apple podcasts or wherever you
[47:21] SPEAKER_02: are listening. Thank you for joining us and I'll see you next time. Thanks Joanne. Thank you.
[47:29] SPEAKER_01: Okay, awesome. Thank you so much, Joanne. Where we talk to entrepreneurs who are making it happen
[47:35] SPEAKER_01: across Canada and delivering news, trends, knowledge and opinions from entrepreneurs and business
[47:43] SPEAKER_01: influencers across the country.