Scott Stirrett Founder and CEO of Venture for Canada Discusses How the COVID-19 Pandemic May Impact New and Future Entrepreneurs

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[00:00] SPEAKER_01: It's Toronto's podcast on the Canada's podcast network.
[00:05] SPEAKER_01: Hi everyone, I'm Celine Williams, an international speaker and business strategist and I'd like
[00:10] SPEAKER_01: to welcome you to Toronto's podcast.
[00:13] SPEAKER_01: We are part of the Canada's podcast network, your source for great insights for entrepreneurs
[00:17] SPEAKER_01: from across Canada.
[00:19] SPEAKER_01: I'm really excited today to be interviewing Scott Sturrett.
[00:22] SPEAKER_01: Scott is the founder and CEO of Venture for Canada, a national charity that develops
[00:27] SPEAKER_01: entrepreneurial leadership skills in young Canadians.
[00:30] SPEAKER_01: In 2019, over 350 young Canadians from coast to coast accelerate their careers through
[00:35] SPEAKER_01: Venture for Canada's programs.
[00:37] SPEAKER_01: Scott, thank you so much for joining me today.
[00:41] SPEAKER_00: Thanks so much for having me, Celine, looking forward to talking with you.
[00:44] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, this is really exciting because I think what Venture for Canada is doing is super
[00:49] SPEAKER_01: cool and really important and I'd love for you to talk a little bit about what Venture
[00:54] SPEAKER_01: for Canada is up to and also how you came to found Venture for Canada and what drew you
[01:01] SPEAKER_01: to this work.
[01:02] SPEAKER_00: Sounds great.
[01:03] SPEAKER_00: So I'll first start with an overview of what brought me to Start Venture for Canada and
[01:10] SPEAKER_00: then the second part which is the overview of what Venture for Canada is currently working
[01:15] SPEAKER_00: on.
[01:15] SPEAKER_00: So with regards to the first question, how do Venture for Canada first get started?
[01:20] SPEAKER_00: So when I grew up in Nova Scotia and then I went to university at Georgetown University
[01:26] SPEAKER_00: in the United States and while I was a student at Georgetown, I saw a program called Venture
[01:32] SPEAKER_00: for America which was founded by an individual named Andrew Yang who actually coincidentally
[01:38] SPEAKER_00: ended up running for president and has now become much more well known than he was seven
[01:43] SPEAKER_00: or eight years ago when he was first starting venture for America.
[01:46] SPEAKER_00: And I remember things to myself, this is just a great idea and in essence Venture for
[01:52] SPEAKER_00: America's program in a nutshell is that they recruit trained and support recent university
[01:58] SPEAKER_00: graduates to go work at startup companies across the United States in essence offering
[02:02] SPEAKER_00: a kind of entrepreneurial apprenticeship.
[02:05] SPEAKER_00: And I thought to myself, you know, I would love to do something like this because when
[02:10] SPEAKER_00: I was a student at Georgetown, I kind of had an evolution over time where I began to realize
[02:17] SPEAKER_00: a sort of a sense of career discovery of what I really wanted to do with my life.
[02:23] SPEAKER_00: And I think when I first started at Georgetown, like when I was 18 or 19, a lot of, you
[02:29] SPEAKER_00: know, what I thought in my head about what I wanted to do as career was oh be a lawyer
[02:32] SPEAKER_00: or go work in a big bank.
[02:34] SPEAKER_00: But then when I was at Georgetown, I found that the things that I enjoyed the most doing
[02:39] SPEAKER_00: were actually very entrepreneurial endeavors where I was creating something from nothing.
[02:43] SPEAKER_00: So I was involved in creating a student organization where we ran students for public office
[02:50] SPEAKER_00: in the district of Columbia.
[02:52] SPEAKER_00: And we actually got seven students elected to these local and neighborhood commissions.
[02:57] SPEAKER_00: And the initiative was called DC student speak.
[03:00] SPEAKER_00: And I did a lot of other initiatives through big clubs, like big student organizations.
[03:04] SPEAKER_00: But whenever I reflect back on my time at Georgetown, what I enjoyed the most was arguably
[03:08] SPEAKER_00: doing DC students speak.
[03:12] SPEAKER_00: I also did five or six different internships when I was a student at a variety, at everything
[03:16] SPEAKER_00: from everywhere from Goldman Sachs to start up not for profit organizations.
[03:21] SPEAKER_00: And one of the things that also, you know, I think realized through that journey was that
[03:26] SPEAKER_00: in doing this diversity of different, you know, internships, that really what I wanted to do
[03:33] SPEAKER_00: was was be a part of building something or to build something, you know, myself.
[03:39] SPEAKER_00: So all this to say is I was very attracted to applying adventure for America, but I couldn't
[03:44] SPEAKER_00: because I'm not a US citizen.
[03:46] SPEAKER_00: So I ended up after graduation working at Goldman Sachs for around a year in New York.
[03:50] SPEAKER_00: And while I was there, I had this idea of, you know, why not create a venture for Canada?
[03:56] SPEAKER_00: It's something I would love to have participated in if I was a student
[04:00] SPEAKER_00: or a recent graduate.
[04:02] SPEAKER_00: And over the course of that year, I validated the idea, incorporated, did a lot of initial
[04:08] SPEAKER_00: startup work. And then in April, May 2014, I made the plunge to start working on it full time.
[04:15] SPEAKER_00: So I've been doing this for close to around six years.
[04:18] SPEAKER_00: And in essence, I was motivated to create something to address a need that I saw firsthand
[04:23] SPEAKER_00: as a student and recent graduate.
[04:27] SPEAKER_00: With regards to the second part of your question, which is about what's venture we can't up to right
[04:32] SPEAKER_00: now. So obviously, we're, you know, in week one of self everybody kind of self social distancing
[04:39] SPEAKER_00: and during this coronavirus situation. So in the short term, we are responding in being
[04:45] SPEAKER_00: nimble with regards to the evolving coronavirus epidemic. But I would say longer term, one of
[04:50] SPEAKER_00: the things we're really looking at is continuing to further grow our fellowship program.
[04:54] SPEAKER_00: And our fellowship program supports recent grads to go work at startups for 15 months upon graduation.
[05:01] SPEAKER_00: And we currently operate in BC, Ontario, and the Atlantic provinces. And I think one of the things
[05:06] SPEAKER_00: we'll be looking at doing for the fellowship program is growing that across Canada in particular
[05:11] SPEAKER_00: launching a French language programming. I would say second major priority is continuing to grow
[05:17] SPEAKER_00: our internship program. So two years ago, we launched the VFC internship program where we
[05:21] SPEAKER_00: protruding support current students to go intern at startups in the kind of entrepreneurial co-op.
[05:26] SPEAKER_00: And that current thing operates in Ontario and Atlantic, sorry, in Washington, Canada and the
[05:31] SPEAKER_00: Atlantic Canada. And one of the things we were looking at doing is potentially growing that
[05:34] SPEAKER_00: internship program over time. And then I would say a third priority is looking at how do we
[05:40] SPEAKER_00: better support our alumni from our fellowship program who are increasingly rising in seniority
[05:45] SPEAKER_00: in their own careers. And there are some initiatives we're being need to do like hosting our inaugural
[05:50] SPEAKER_00: alumni summit. Overall, I think it's an exciting time. Some pause on some plans because of the current
[05:57] SPEAKER_00: pandemic situation. But longer term, I think that there's a lot of exciting things that we're excited
[06:02] SPEAKER_01: to work on. No, that's great. I love there's so many things I want to talk to you about now.
[06:07] SPEAKER_01: But I do want to acknowledge I love that you created something that it so it happens so often with
[06:14] SPEAKER_01: founders, right, where you see a need based on your own life or your own experience and you go out
[06:20] SPEAKER_01: and create this thing that then solves this problem for a ton of people. So I love that aspect of
[06:26] SPEAKER_01: this, but I think it's also really cool that how VFC has evolved and changed over the years.
[06:33] SPEAKER_01: You know, I've known you for a number of years now and I've seen how it's grown and how many more
[06:37] SPEAKER_01: people are running, you know, how many more students are running through students, young Canadians,
[06:42] SPEAKER_01: sorry, are running through the program now and how it has expanded from recent grads to now
[06:48] SPEAKER_01: internships and you're talking about supporting people after they've graduated through the program.
[06:53] SPEAKER_01: And I love that as you're doing this, you're responding and growing in a way that's super effective
[07:00] SPEAKER_01: for the same population of people, if you like. Yeah, absolutely. It's interesting. I was a
[07:08] SPEAKER_00: venture-candidate, leverages LinkedIn learning as like a learning management software for our fellows,
[07:12] SPEAKER_00: but also we use it like a staff and we also use it for the interns. And I was recently doing an
[07:18] SPEAKER_00: offer profit like LinkedIn learning module and one of the things that talks about is like just the
[07:23] SPEAKER_00: importance of not for profits being responsive to different evolving needs and changes and not just
[07:29] SPEAKER_00: doing the same thing every single year. And I think that that's what we've seen with Ventura for
[07:33] SPEAKER_00: Canva is that we've evolved significantly as an organization in the last six years in response
[07:39] SPEAKER_00: to, you know, changing environment. And I think that we're going to see continued evolution.
[07:44] SPEAKER_00: I think it's just as important for not for profits to evolve as it is for for profit startups or
[07:50] SPEAKER_01: or corporations. Great. I totally agree with that. And yet they not for profits historically,
[07:56] SPEAKER_01: not venture for Canada. I appreciate that, but not for profits historically have not been great
[08:03] SPEAKER_01: at evolving. And not all of them. It's a broad, I recognize it's a generalization, but, you know,
[08:08] SPEAKER_01: I worked in a not for profit for a while and they can get a bit bogged down in the bureaucracy
[08:14] SPEAKER_01: of being a not for profit and getting stuck in, well, we need to do this thing to get our funding.
[08:19] SPEAKER_01: And so they don't change an evolve. And I think it's really great that venture for Canada,
[08:25] SPEAKER_01: while teaching entrepreneurial leadership skills has also kept a very entrepreneurial mindset,
[08:31] SPEAKER_01: if you like, as an organization to be responsive and nimble and thinking about the,
[08:37] SPEAKER_00: you know, the next problem they can solve. Yeah, absolutely. It's super important to do that.
[08:45] SPEAKER_00: And definitely a lot of not for profits can get very bogged down in the administration to the
[08:50] SPEAKER_01: detriment of actually achieving their mission. 100%. I want to ask you a little bit about your
[08:57] SPEAKER_01: journey because coming from places like Goldman Sachs and some of these more traditional larger
[09:04] SPEAKER_01: organizations, what did you see that was great for you to use in venture for Canada and being more
[09:13] SPEAKER_01: entrepreneurial and what did you see was, excuse me, a challenge for you or something that you had
[09:17] SPEAKER_00: to overcome. Yeah, so I'd say with regards to the transition from Goldman Sachs to
[09:25] SPEAKER_00: doing venture for Canada, in terms of what I learned at Goldman Sachs. And to be fair, I wasn't
[09:29] SPEAKER_00: there for a super long time just around a year. But I think I learned a few things. The first
[09:35] SPEAKER_00: main thing I think I learned, which I think to some extent I already had before, but I learned
[09:40] SPEAKER_00: in different ways, was just discipline. You know, it was my first year living really by myself and
[09:47] SPEAKER_00: as an independent adult. And you know, George at Goldman Sachs, I had a pretty strict schedule of,
[09:53] SPEAKER_00: you know, being in the office basically by 8 a.m. roughly and then leave by 6.30 or 7 p.m. every day
[09:59] SPEAKER_00: Monday through Friday. And then we didn't work on the weekends. But during the day, you know,
[10:04] SPEAKER_00: that's a pretty relatively long kind of work day. And I remember when I was at Goldman Sachs,
[10:09] SPEAKER_00: I implemented like just pretty like strict habits. So like I would wake up at 6. I would work out
[10:17] SPEAKER_00: in the morning, you know, I'd be home by, you know, 8 p.m. from work. And then I would, you know,
[10:25] SPEAKER_00: do some work on venture for Canada for like an hour and a half and then go sleep by 10. And then
[10:30] SPEAKER_00: I'd work on venture for Canada the weekends. And I would sleep eight hours a night. You know,
[10:34] SPEAKER_00: so one of the things I think that I realized was when I was at Georgetown, I just had very strict
[10:38] SPEAKER_00: habits around exercise, around eating well, around sleeping well, around using my time efficiently,
[10:46] SPEAKER_00: because I had a lot of constraints on my time. And I think that that was really helpful because
[10:51] SPEAKER_00: all of a sudden, you know, I was when I first started doing venture for a can't full time,
[10:55] SPEAKER_00: I was 22 about to turn 23, which at the time I realized just how young I was and how little I knew.
[11:02] SPEAKER_00: But I think that leaving that really structured environment Goldman Sachs,
[11:06] SPEAKER_00: to doing venture for Canada where literally I had complete control over my own time. I was the only
[11:11] SPEAKER_00: person right doing us. I was just working with a department. And I think I ended up having the
[11:18] SPEAKER_00: discipline to know what I should be focusing on and what I shouldn't be focusing on. And to work
[11:24] SPEAKER_00: really, really hard at achieving the most important things, which is, by the way, I still think
[11:31] SPEAKER_00: it's an important, really important thing, even in my current role. So I'd say that was the habits
[11:38] SPEAKER_00: were the one thing I really learned at Goldman Sachs. I would say a second thing I'd probably learned
[11:42] SPEAKER_00: at Goldman Sachs was just a better understanding of large organizations and how they work.
[11:48] SPEAKER_00: You know, sometimes even when I do venture for Canada and I'm interacting with people in
[11:51] SPEAKER_00: much larger organizations, it's easy to get frustrated, be oh, why is this move so slow, why is this
[11:57] SPEAKER_00: happening? And then you begin to realize that very rarely it's the person that's the issue,
[12:02] SPEAKER_00: although sometimes that is the case. But a lot of the times it's constraints that they're under
[12:05] SPEAKER_00: within the system, that they operate under. And it's important, I think, for some of the Goldman Sachs
[12:10] SPEAKER_00: that I developed a little bit more empathy for the complexity that exists within large organizations.
[12:16] SPEAKER_00: And it's important to put yourself in other people's shoes, especially when you're in a small
[12:23] SPEAKER_00: organization and working with people in large organizations. And I'd say on a third level is
[12:28] SPEAKER_00: because my job at Goldman Sachs is my first full-time job out of university, is I learned
[12:33] SPEAKER_00: through just basic workplace etiquette elements that I think were helpful. You know, if I had just
[12:38] SPEAKER_00: done venture for Canada right out of Georgetown, I think it would have been challenging for me.
[12:42] SPEAKER_00: And having that year of just kind of learning, you know, everything from, you know,
[12:47] SPEAKER_00: calendar by etiquette to like a variety of just basic workplace things that I think were helpful.
[12:53] SPEAKER_00: With regards to sort of the second part of your question, which is in terms of what
[12:57] SPEAKER_00: what did I not learn, I think as much as it's funny, like the founder of venture for
[13:03] SPEAKER_00: American Andrew Yang, he wrote a book and then he talks about transitioning from like being a
[13:08] SPEAKER_00: corporate lawyer to being an entrepreneur. And he talks about it like the need to like unlearn
[13:15] SPEAKER_00: certain bad habits. And I do think, you know, sometimes when you're an entrepreneur, a lot of times,
[13:21] SPEAKER_00: you know, they'll be advice, oh, go work in a big consulting firm or go work in a, you know,
[13:26] SPEAKER_00: big bank and then go create a startup. And while I do think in the case of me, I actually
[13:31] SPEAKER_00: was perfect. I spent around a year there. I learned certain basic things that I think were
[13:35] SPEAKER_00: applicable for many different career paths. But I don't think I necessarily learned any bad habits.
[13:40] SPEAKER_00: I definitely think that people, sometimes if you are in an environment that is very non-autro-prineral,
[13:47] SPEAKER_00: then one of the things that kind of happen is that you can decrease your entrepreneurial skills
[13:53] SPEAKER_00: based on the environment that you're in. I don't think that that was the case with myself
[13:58] SPEAKER_00: in Goldman Sachs, but I do think it's something for people to, because I think a lot of recent
[14:01] SPEAKER_00: grads who are entrepreneurial make a mistake where they say, oh, I'm going to go work at a big
[14:07] SPEAKER_00: consulting firm for like three years and then go create, you know, my own company, which by the
[14:11] SPEAKER_00: way sometimes works. But if you're in that situation for, if you're in a really large organization that
[14:15] SPEAKER_00: perhaps isn't very entrepreneurial for like five, 10, 15 years, it can really build bad habits
[14:22] SPEAKER_00: in terms of, especially if your goal is to one day become an entrepreneur. So yeah, that's
[14:30] SPEAKER_00: a longer answer to your question, but yeah, happy to further give background on any of those
[14:37] SPEAKER_01: items. Well, I do not apologize for a longer answer. I love that. And as someone who,
[14:44] SPEAKER_01: you know, I ran a business then went and worked in corporate for 11 years right out of university.
[14:51] SPEAKER_01: It was an unintentional 11 year journey. I can tell you that what you're saying about
[14:58] SPEAKER_01: creating those bad habits in sort of a bigger corporate environment is true. It's not easy to
[15:04] SPEAKER_01: unlearn some of those things. And it takes time. And so I appreciate what you're saying. I feel like
[15:11] SPEAKER_01: that sort of year or two is not a bad thing to learn some of what you were talking about like
[15:17] SPEAKER_01: the corporate etiquette. That's a real thing that, you know, if you are in any organization,
[15:22] SPEAKER_01: you're going to deal with people in any organizations. If you're starting a startup at some point,
[15:26] SPEAKER_01: you're going to be dealing with other organizations in some way. Having some of that etiquette will
[15:30] SPEAKER_01: actually serve you in the long run. And being too bogged down in the mindset of the corporate can
[15:38] SPEAKER_01: also create some bad habits that, you know, take ages to get rid of. And I love that you
[15:46] SPEAKER_01: had enough time to create some really strong solid habits. And you were disciplined enough in
[15:51] SPEAKER_01: your early 20s. I would not have been to have done that and do and as effectively as you did it. And
[15:58] SPEAKER_01: then rolled it into your role at venture for Canada. Because my guess is that that understanding
[16:05] SPEAKER_01: really serves the people who are going through venture for Canada because you have that lens
[16:11] SPEAKER_00: that can help them. Absolutely. And I think it's, you know, having that lived experience of
[16:18] SPEAKER_00: going through the process, I think does it help me a lot in my current role. So yeah, I
[16:25] SPEAKER_01: completely agree with that. So I'm going to ask you about some of the trends that you've seen,
[16:30] SPEAKER_01: because you have a really unique view and interaction with people who are stepping into or
[16:37] SPEAKER_01: interested in on to being an entrepreneur, whether they're creating their own, we start up at some
[16:42] SPEAKER_01: point or they just have more entrepreneurial leanings that want to work for an entrepreneurial
[16:46] SPEAKER_01: organization. Because as we both know that that is a growing portion of the companies that are out
[16:52] SPEAKER_01: there. So I want to ask you, you know, what you're seeing is trends in terms of the people coming
[16:59] SPEAKER_01: through, I'm going to actually break this down into a question at a time this time. So what trends
[17:05] SPEAKER_01: are you seeing in terms of the kids that are the students, the young Canadians that are coming through
[17:10] SPEAKER_01: venture for Canada, of what they're interested in or what they want to learn more of right now?
[17:16] SPEAKER_00: That's a great question. I'd say at a very broad level, I think that now more than even five
[17:23] SPEAKER_00: years ago, there is a desire by young Canadians that do a few different things. So I think one is
[17:32] SPEAKER_00: the ability to make like a meaningful impact in the work that they do. I think that this existed,
[17:38] SPEAKER_00: I mean, I graduated from university seven years ago, so not that long ago, but I would say that seven
[17:43] SPEAKER_00: years ago that was absolutely like a trend that existed. And I'd say, you know, in 2020, that is
[17:50] SPEAKER_00: something that exists even more is that people want a meaningful work at a high level.
[17:57] SPEAKER_00: To create meaningful impact, I would actually say sometimes I could be peaked to people's
[18:01] SPEAKER_00: detriment because they sometimes overlook the desire to make a meaningful impact over the desire to
[18:07] SPEAKER_00: create meaningful skills, which I would argue that sometimes having, well, in most cases, having
[18:14] SPEAKER_00: meaningful skills is how you create meaningful impact, but that's a separate point.
[18:21] SPEAKER_00: You know, I'd say this second point in terms of what a lot of recent guys are looking for us. I think
[18:26] SPEAKER_00: they're looking for a sense of community. I think in this technological world, we are more
[18:35] SPEAKER_00: interconnected than we ever have been, but in some ways we can be more part. And I actually think
[18:40] SPEAKER_00: of all the social distancing in the last week has one thing that it has made clear is we're
[18:46] SPEAKER_00: very social animals. And I think a lot of recent grads when they're graduating from school are
[18:51] SPEAKER_00: looking for a sense of community in the workplace that they work in. So they're not just looking for
[18:56] SPEAKER_00: colleagues, but they're looking for people who they can like socialize with more in general. And I
[19:01] SPEAKER_00: think that's always existed, but I think that that is the blurring between friends and colleagues.
[19:05] SPEAKER_00: I think it's something that has accelerated, which also actually brings with the
[19:09] SPEAKER_00: problems, but I do think it's something people are especially recent grads are looking for.
[19:15] SPEAKER_00: With regards to skills in general, I mean, it all depends on the person. If someone's interested
[19:20] SPEAKER_00: in sales, they're looking to develop sales skills. If they're developer looking to develop different
[19:25] SPEAKER_00: skills. So, I think at the end of the day, people are still looking to develop skills within
[19:28] SPEAKER_00: the workplaces, but it really depends on what their career aspirations are. Yeah, I think that
[19:36] SPEAKER_01: those are the three points that I give for now. So I want to talk about skills for a second,
[19:42] SPEAKER_01: because and not in a technical sense, but because venture for Canada is very focused on leadership
[19:49] SPEAKER_01: skills specifically. Are you seeing any specific leadership skills that help people succeed,
[19:58] SPEAKER_01: or gaps that when when the these recent grads are coming in that they just they don't seem to have
[20:04] SPEAKER_00: a sense of certain skills? Absolutely. If someone wants to lead and motivate other people,
[20:11] SPEAKER_00: one of the most important things that they need is the ability to manage themselves
[20:16] SPEAKER_00: and to motivate themselves and to in essence, like lead themselves. And I think it's challenged
[20:23] SPEAKER_00: with many recent grads, but also many people in general is there's such a desire to want to be a
[20:29] SPEAKER_00: leader or to lead or to manage people. But I think before one does that, one really does need to
[20:35] SPEAKER_00: make sure that they have their own house in order. So I think that if there was one cautionary advice
[20:41] SPEAKER_00: I would give a lot of recent grads is it's first focus on someone selfishly on yourself,
[20:46] SPEAKER_00: right? And make sure you have good habits, make sure you have good mental health,
[20:52] SPEAKER_00: make sure you are well positioned for success. And I think once you've done that, you can then move
[20:59] SPEAKER_00: on to, you know, trying to lead and motivate others. I mean, I have I'm very biased in this,
[21:07] SPEAKER_01: so I would agree. I do a lot of work in emotional intelligence. So I would totally agree. I think
[21:12] SPEAKER_01: that is a foundational starting point is really getting your own house in order and starting there.
[21:17] SPEAKER_01: Because we always think it's about the other person, but you can't motivate, manage, help another
[21:23] SPEAKER_01: person if you are not motivating and managing yourself to start with. Yeah, 100%. I completely agree.
[21:31] SPEAKER_01: Has there been any advice that you were given that was really meaningful to you
[21:36] SPEAKER_01: that, you know, to get you to where you are right now in your career that you would want to share
[21:41] SPEAKER_00: it with people? Yeah, I'd say one piece of advice. It's funny when I was leaving Goldman Sachs,
[21:48] SPEAKER_00: I had coffee with my the manager director of the team that I was on. And she was a, you know,
[21:56] SPEAKER_00: a very high performing person or she is a very high performing person. She's now a senior executive
[22:01] SPEAKER_00: at Bank of America. And one of the things she said to me, which, you know, she made a comment.
[22:09] SPEAKER_00: She's like, don't try to always rush things, right? And take time and that sometimes when you're
[22:14] SPEAKER_00: young, you don't appreciate it. You know, how life can be longer and that things take time.
[22:21] SPEAKER_00: I think at the time I didn't take, I wasn't hostile to the advice. I think I just was like,
[22:26] SPEAKER_00: okay, yeah, sure. Here's this older person giving me this advice. And probably a year or two later,
[22:31] SPEAKER_00: I was like, that was actually really good advice. Because, you know, maybe I should have stayed at
[22:36] SPEAKER_00: Goldman Sachs another year, for instance, right? And eventually, I mean, I think
[22:39] SPEAKER_00: the insurance release is successful. So I'm not complaining about how it worked. But I think so
[22:45] SPEAKER_00: many recent grads, like I challenge we see sometimes with with recent grads and venture
[22:50] SPEAKER_00: candidates, just a desire to sometimes like this grass is always greener or faux
[22:57] SPEAKER_00: momentality, which is just, you know, job hopping from job to job to job. And it, by the way,
[23:02] SPEAKER_00: strategic job movements absolutely makes sense. But I think there's a lot of people there in a
[23:07] SPEAKER_00: job for two months. And they're just like, I don't like this. I want to move to another job. And
[23:10] SPEAKER_00: then there's another job, but they don't like it and they move to another job. And to some
[23:14] SPEAKER_00: extent, they just never end up being happy. And they never end up really creating any kind of
[23:18] SPEAKER_00: meaningful impact because they're just jumping from things to things to things. So,
[23:22] SPEAKER_00: relatively, this is not advice that Bill Gates gave me, but this is advice that Bill Gates,
[23:28] SPEAKER_00: as reported to have said, which I think is really valuable, is that people overestimate what they
[23:33] SPEAKER_00: can do in three years and they underestimate what they can do in 10 years. All this is to say is
[23:38] SPEAKER_00: that, you know, sometimes I think when somebody's working towards a goal, is it's think about every
[23:43] SPEAKER_00: day is just like one like brick in the, the pyramid of what you're trying to build. And it takes
[23:50] SPEAKER_00: a long time to build something that is meaningful. In the case of Azure Vecant, I actually incorporated
[23:56] SPEAKER_00: the organization on like July 18, 2013. So approaching seven years ago. And it's taken seven years
[24:04] SPEAKER_00: to build a BFC into today, which is what I would say is like a, you know, mid-size, not-for-profit.
[24:10] SPEAKER_00: But, you know, we didn't do that in two years. And I think when I first started to
[24:16] SPEAKER_00: mention it, I probably think at the time I would have thought, oh, in three or four years will be
[24:20] SPEAKER_00: the size. And it ended up taking seven years. All this is to say is I think youth brings with it a
[24:27] SPEAKER_00: kind of a sense of impatience, which is one of the great things about being young, I think, is
[24:32] SPEAKER_00: and why you're lying to people accomplish a lot of things, is that impatience in patience.
[24:36] SPEAKER_00: But I think it's important to marry that impatience with a realism that building anything takes a
[24:44] SPEAKER_00: lot of time, takes a lot of commitment, and it takes a lot of focus. My former boss is advice,
[24:50] SPEAKER_00: which is in essence, slow down and take your time. And it is advice that I would continue to give
[24:58] SPEAKER_01: recent grads. Super interesting that you say that because I think that if we were to look at previous
[25:06] SPEAKER_01: generations, right? So, you know, I think about my father's generation or my mother's generation,
[25:11] SPEAKER_01: they did not have the same focus on speed necessarily. They weren't as- there was- and it might
[25:19] SPEAKER_01: have been war times, whatever it was, but they had- they were less focused on rushing things,
[25:24] SPEAKER_01: which is why I think we had people that in those generations stayed at organizations for their
[25:29] SPEAKER_01: entire career, right? Like it was- you did a thing, you kept doing it, you got better at it,
[25:36] SPEAKER_01: you moved to the next level of leadership, whatever the case may be. So, it's really interesting,
[25:41] SPEAKER_01: because as you're saying that, I think you're right on the money that young people now are much
[25:46] SPEAKER_01: more focused on the speed of things. And I wonder how much of that is driven by technology,
[25:52] SPEAKER_01: and that idea of FOMO that you mentioned, and what organizations or companies who want to have
[25:58] SPEAKER_01: interns or who want to bring these people in, what can they do to help keep those people there,
[26:04] SPEAKER_01: help meet that demand or teach them to slow down and be more strategic, if there's
[26:11] SPEAKER_00: opportunities there as well. I think one is having proactive career conversations with people,
[26:17] SPEAKER_00: like really early on, to set those expectations from the beginning. I think that that's super
[26:22] SPEAKER_00: important to do. And by the way, just as at one kind of point related to kind of a hypothesis,
[26:27] SPEAKER_00: I think of the generational shift, is I think when you look at a lot of people, like let's say in
[26:32] SPEAKER_00: the post-war period, right? And I think of my grandparents, my maternal grandparents,
[26:38] SPEAKER_00: they were still alive, and they were born in 1931. And they had five kids, and when my grandfather
[26:47] SPEAKER_00: graduated from university, shortly after they started having kids, all of a sudden had five kids
[26:55] SPEAKER_00: to support, and it was less about following your passion, and it was more about, okay, how probably
[27:00] SPEAKER_00: can we get food on the table, right? I think in the case of my grandparents, they were born in the
[27:07] SPEAKER_00: Great Depression, in a very rural community in Nova Scotia, where they grew up in houses that
[27:15] SPEAKER_00: didn't have electricity or running water. I think for them, it was more about survival.
[27:20] SPEAKER_00: I think for most people today in Canada, it's been more about, it's kind of like the
[27:27] SPEAKER_00: Maslow's hierarchy of needs, right? When you have food on your table in most cases, or you
[27:33] SPEAKER_00: have that sense of social stability, and there's that social safety net and variety of different
[27:37] SPEAKER_00: things, people start to focus more on self-actualization, and that sense from meaning in their life.
[27:44] SPEAKER_00: And I think before, there was more of a focus on, I mean, rightfully so, that there was more
[27:50] SPEAKER_00: of a need to focus on survival. What will be interesting, potentially seeing the economic consequences
[27:55] SPEAKER_00: of this coronavirus crisis, is the impact that it has on people, right? Because I think that in
[28:02] SPEAKER_00: Canada, we're used to living in very stable situation, and we're not in a crisis like this.
[28:10] SPEAKER_00: It would be interesting for the people born in 1998 who are
[28:14] SPEAKER_00: discriminating from university now to see if there is a little bit of a shift to say,
[28:20] SPEAKER_00: okay, well, maybe it's about getting a job that provides me stability. It's about maybe my
[28:26] SPEAKER_00: basic needs, and it's solely just about finding work that lines with their values 100%.
[28:37] SPEAKER_00: And who knows, I mean, a lot of it depends on the severity of the economic crisis.
[28:42] SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I wonder if the current situation could impact people's young people's perceptions or
[28:51] SPEAKER_01: goals a little bit. It'll definitely be interesting to see, because I think it has, what you've said
[28:58] SPEAKER_01: is really right on the money from my perspective, is that we've swung from a time when it was just
[29:04] SPEAKER_01: about stability and meeting someone's basic needs and allowing them to live and support their
[29:10] SPEAKER_01: family to this time now, where that is really not in the language of younger people. It really is
[29:20] SPEAKER_01: the idea of follow your passion is so ingrained in our culture and our languaging and are looking
[29:28] SPEAKER_01: for jobs and figuring out work. And it's almost like that pendulum swing to the other extreme
[29:34] SPEAKER_01: will end up might not say it will not predict the future, but it might end up a little bit more
[29:40] SPEAKER_01: balanced. And what does that middle ground look like at the end of this? I think that will be
[29:45] SPEAKER_00: really interesting. And I'd say my caveat is that I mean, in any generation, there's certain people
[29:50] SPEAKER_00: I know my age or younger who are very focused on just meeting their basic needs, right? And
[29:55] SPEAKER_00: there are people with economic circumstances who are just different life goals, right? So I would
[29:58] SPEAKER_00: absolutely say that even there's some people who are more focused on that, but I do wonder if that
[30:03] SPEAKER_00: there is that should have shipped in in equilibrium. So anyway, the only time will tell, but history
[30:10] SPEAKER_00: history doesn't repeat itself, but it often rhymes. Yes, that's great. I love that. That's great.
[30:17] SPEAKER_01: We're getting close to the end of our time together, but I do want to ask this question, which is
[30:23] SPEAKER_01: is there anything that you're I'm a book nerd? So preface this with always I always ask about books.
[30:28] SPEAKER_01: Is there anything that you've read or you are reading that you would recommend to our listeners?
[30:34] SPEAKER_00: Yeah. So what I'm reading right now and I have been working through for like the last like five
[30:39] SPEAKER_00: weeks is Simone de Beauvoir's The Mandarin's, which is a widely thought from our
[30:46] SPEAKER_00: friend to be her best novel, which is an interesting exploration of French intellectuals in kind of
[30:52] SPEAKER_00: post-war Paris and post-war war two. And it's supposed to be loosely based on some
[30:58] SPEAKER_00: of the Beauvoir's life. And it's an interesting book because it you know, I think focuses a lot on
[31:05] SPEAKER_00: on how people do with loss. How do people deal as a society after like a traumatic event like
[31:12] SPEAKER_00: World War Two? Both as a society, but also as people. So it's kind of interesting within the context of our
[31:17] SPEAKER_00: current coronavirus situation. But I think it's also about I think relationships, right? And it's
[31:24] SPEAKER_00: about gender and sexuality. And while the book is a lengthy novel that at times gets a little
[31:35] SPEAKER_00: tedious, I have enjoyed forcing myself to read it in many ways because while not always the most
[31:43] SPEAKER_00: enjoyable at the time while reading it, and I'm around like 600 to 85 pages of 730. So I'm almost
[31:50] SPEAKER_00: almost on the book, but I have really enjoyed it. And I recommend People Read Fiction.
[31:58] SPEAKER_00: Yeah. So anyway, Simone de Beauvoir's The Mandarin's, you know, one of my
[32:01] SPEAKER_00: masters question often reverts to what I've like most recently read. And I really didn't enjoy that.
[32:06] SPEAKER_00: In terms of nonfiction, what I read this year, so last five weeks has been reading that one book
[32:11] SPEAKER_00: because it's taken me forever. But I read in January, Ronan Farrow's Catching Kill about Harvey Weinstein
[32:22] SPEAKER_00: and his investigative reporting. And that was a great nonfiction. And to me really makes it clear
[32:29] SPEAKER_00: like the importance of investigative journalism. And also just the extent to which it wasn't just
[32:36] SPEAKER_00: Harvey Weinstein, but it was a whole system prop and uphardly Weinstein that you begin to see.
[32:42] SPEAKER_00: So anyway, those are two books that I could enjoy reading a lot. And to be honest, I am really
[32:48] SPEAKER_00: looking forward to reading more books in the next little bit because normally it doesn't take me five
[32:53] SPEAKER_00: weeks to read one book, but the length of this book and just it requires a lot of thought to read
[33:00] SPEAKER_00: it. Frankly, almost each page that I usually I'll go through, you know, I switch books every two
[33:06] SPEAKER_00: weeks roughly. So I'm looking forward to reading some more easily digestible. But one thing as I'd say
[33:14] SPEAKER_00: is that I actually think sometimes it's really good to like force yourself to read books that maybe
[33:19] SPEAKER_00: at the time are a little, you know, not the most enjoyable. But then those are sometimes the books
[33:26] SPEAKER_00: that you reflect on the most, you know, years and years later. And I'm really giving them the time
[33:31] SPEAKER_00: that they deserve. I think it's super important because there's often so much packed with and one
[33:37] SPEAKER_00: of those books. My absolute favorite author is Robert Carro, who is a biographer. He's one,
[33:44] SPEAKER_00: two, at least one, Paul is surprised in not two. And he has a great four part series on Lyndon Johnson
[33:51] SPEAKER_00: that is a fantastic read. He has like 20, it's I think close to 3000 pages worth of content. But
[33:58] SPEAKER_00: is, you know, I think it's much more about Lyndon Johnson. The books are really about power. They're
[34:04] SPEAKER_00: about government. They're about, you know, the human drive. They're about ambition. He actually
[34:12] SPEAKER_00: still has not, he has a fifth book that is, he's in his eevee. So hopefully his help remains well.
[34:17] SPEAKER_00: But he has one more book that he needs to publish in the Lyndon Johnson series. Oh wow.
[34:22] SPEAKER_00: It's absolutely great. He also has a 1500 page like book on Robert Moses, who was kind of the
[34:29] SPEAKER_00: signature urban planer of New York City. And really arguably the most important person New York City
[34:34] SPEAKER_00: for like 40 or 50 years. He won the Pulitzer Prize for that book and spelled a power broker.
[34:39] SPEAKER_00: But I would say of any book I've read, the power broker has probably had the biggest impact on me.
[34:44] SPEAKER_00: And as, you know, arguably my favorite book of all of all time. And it is a obviously an
[34:50] SPEAKER_00: nonfiction too. So, anyway, I could go on. But I figured I wouldn't mention two of my most
[34:56] SPEAKER_00: favorite recent books. And then what are my, what's my favorite author and what's my favorite book of
[35:01] SPEAKER_01: all time? I love it. And for the record is someone who, you know, studied English, lit in university
[35:07] SPEAKER_01: and forced myself through many books. I did not want to read as a result of that. I actually
[35:12] SPEAKER_01: really agree with you sometimes choosing a book that you might not necessarily might not be your
[35:18] SPEAKER_01: quote unquote style or you might not might be more difficult to read and actually just getting through
[35:23] SPEAKER_01: it. Sometimes those books are the most influential in terms of what you reflect on or you think
[35:29] SPEAKER_01: about afterwards or what at all. How it all comes together. So I very much appreciate you saying
[35:33] SPEAKER_01: that because I would totally agree. Yeah. One hundred percent. I want to thank Scott. Thank you very
[35:41] SPEAKER_01: much for coming on. And I want to let everyone know that they can check you out. And these links
[35:45] SPEAKER_01: will be in the show notes for this as well. But they can check out venture for Canada online at
[35:50] SPEAKER_01: ventureforcanada.ca. And if you want to learn more about Scott personally, you can check him out
[35:54] SPEAKER_01: online. Scott stirret and that's STIRRET.com. Scott, thank you. It's always a pleasure chatting with you.
[36:03] SPEAKER_00: I really appreciate you taking the time. Thanks for the great speaking with you as well, Stain.
[36:07] SPEAKER_01: Thanks everyone for taking the time today to listen to Toronto's podcast on the Canada podcast
[36:12] SPEAKER_01: network. If you enjoyed the podcast today, please make sure to write us a review on iTunes and
[36:17] SPEAKER_01: share this episode with a friend. You can also check us out online at www.candidaudcast.com
[36:22] SPEAKER_01: where you can listen, discover and engage and learn more about what other entrepreneurs are doing
[36:27] SPEAKER_01: across the country. See you next time.