The Importance of Embracing a Non-Linear Path to Success with Sahar Saidi

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[00:25] SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Cannabis Podcast.
[00:27] SPEAKER_00: The number one podcast for entrepreneurs by entrepreneurs.
[00:33] SPEAKER_01: Hi, welcome to Cannabis Podcast.
[00:35] SPEAKER_01: I'm your host, Celine Williams.
[00:36] SPEAKER_01: And today I'm joined by Sahar Saeedi, who is the founder and CEO of Lus Brands,
[00:42] SPEAKER_01: a direct to consumer premium hair care brand for curly hair.
[00:45] SPEAKER_01: You can see her beautiful curly hair here.
[00:48] SPEAKER_01: Driven by motivation and a personal challenge, she decided to embark on a different path.
[00:52] SPEAKER_01: One that will lead her to become the CEO of her own company.
[00:55] SPEAKER_01: Sahar, nice to meet you and welcome.
[00:58] SPEAKER_01: Nice to meet you too, Celine.
[00:59] SPEAKER_01: Thanks for having me.
[01:00] SPEAKER_01: Absolutely. I'm really excited about this.
[01:02] SPEAKER_01: First of all, I love curly hair brands.
[01:03] SPEAKER_01: So I'm super excited to hear all about your journey of what made you decide to launch
[01:08] SPEAKER_01: this brand and become a CEO.
[01:09] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I see those waves and curls coming through.
[01:13] SPEAKER_01: It's much curlier when it's shorter now that it's long.
[01:15] SPEAKER_01: It's just like the weight drags the dab.
[01:18] SPEAKER_01: I know you have beautiful hair.
[01:20] SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you.
[01:21] SPEAKER_01: So tell me a little bit about what made you decide to what,
[01:24] SPEAKER_01: I mean, did you start in consumer or package products, CPG?
[01:29] SPEAKER_01: Is that what it's called?
[01:30] SPEAKER_01: Is that was that your background at all?
[01:32] SPEAKER_02: Not at all.
[01:33] SPEAKER_02: I have a very, very non-linear career path.
[01:36] SPEAKER_02: Let's call it that.
[01:37] SPEAKER_02: I went to school when I was 19, finished first year of my undergrad.
[01:42] SPEAKER_02: And I'd tamed a door-to-door sales job over the summer and was making a lot of money.
[01:48] SPEAKER_02: Commission only and I sat in school and thought,
[01:50] SPEAKER_02: what do I need a degree for?
[01:52] SPEAKER_02: I already have a job that allows me to make money.
[01:54] SPEAKER_02: So I told my parents I'm dropping out of school to knock on doors and my immigrant
[02:00] SPEAKER_02: parents were not having it.
[02:02] SPEAKER_02: So really from the age of 18, 19 kind of been on my own,
[02:06] SPEAKER_02: hustling, making money and slowly work my way up,
[02:10] SPEAKER_02: that company's corporate chain.
[02:13] SPEAKER_02: And I was VP of sales and marketing by the age of 25 at a health and wellness company.
[02:18] SPEAKER_02: And I had somehow burnt out by the age of 25 and resigned from my position,
[02:23] SPEAKER_02: moved to the Caribbean, lived in Turks and Kekos for a bit, lived in the US for a bit,
[02:29] SPEAKER_02: worked in many different industries from retail, food and beverage, multimedia,
[02:33] SPEAKER_02: entertainment, travel tourism, aviation.
[02:36] SPEAKER_02: And yeah, a lot.
[02:38] SPEAKER_02: And then by the time I was kind of in my early 30s, I decided,
[02:41] SPEAKER_02: let me go back to school and we finished what I started.
[02:44] SPEAKER_02: And I was tired of bouncing around and I'd consultant and I'd proven that you can make money
[02:49] SPEAKER_02: without a degree, but I wanted stability and I wanted a normal corporate job.
[02:54] SPEAKER_02: So I went, got my MBA and thought, all right, great, let's go get a normal corporate job.
[02:59] SPEAKER_02: And I couldn't land the job of my life dependent on it.
[03:02] SPEAKER_02: So starting loss was, it was just something that it came out of necessity.
[03:10] SPEAKER_02: And I thought, you know, I'm seeing a huge opportunity here and someone is going to make a lot
[03:15] SPEAKER_02: of money in this space and they're going to sell us more products that don't work and kind of
[03:19] SPEAKER_02: take advantage. So I saw a problem in the consumer space of Curly Hair.
[03:24] SPEAKER_02: I knew that, you know, I could probably get out there and create products that work and take
[03:28] SPEAKER_02: it to market and build a company and then hopefully teach others how to do the same.
[03:33] SPEAKER_01: So I have so many questions from this.
[03:35] SPEAKER_01: My first question is, so I want to ask this before I get into, you know,
[03:41] SPEAKER_01: lust specifically, but you said that you couldn't land a job to save your life.
[03:46] SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
[03:47] SPEAKER_01: You know, as someone who had an MBA and who had all this experience in different industries,
[03:52] SPEAKER_01: what was the challenge there? Because I hear this a lot and it's often the reason that people
[03:56] SPEAKER_01: think to start a company or to go out on their own eventually. I'd love to just hear your
[04:01] SPEAKER_01: perspective on that before we jump into lust a little bit.
[04:05] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so my experience, especially with Canadian employers and large established organizations,
[04:10] SPEAKER_02: they want to see a very linear career path.
[04:13] SPEAKER_02: So they know where to fit you in their box. And, you know, when you've gone, when you've changed
[04:18] SPEAKER_02: industries or in my case, changed countries and, you know, your title could have gone from VP
[04:24] SPEAKER_02: of sales and marketing to head of business development. That feels like a step back when you're
[04:29] SPEAKER_02: just looking at titles and rules and responsibilities. So I think, you know, when I was applying for jobs
[04:35] SPEAKER_02: at what I thought, you know, with the double MBA, at a director level and up,
[04:40] SPEAKER_02: that I should be able to land and that I was confident I'd be good at. I was just getting
[04:44] SPEAKER_02: rejection letter after rejection letter. They just, my hunch is they didn't know where to fit me in.
[04:49] SPEAKER_02: So that was kind of my experience is, you know, if you want to move up in the banking industry,
[04:54] SPEAKER_02: for example, and you started off as a teller and then you became a supervisor and a manager and
[04:58] SPEAKER_02: a regional manager, you're going to work your way up. And that wasn't my experience. I've always
[05:04] SPEAKER_02: you know, followed a different path. And again, did did very well. I was successful, but it
[05:11] SPEAKER_02: didn't show on paper. And unfortunately, you know, it's a catch 22 if you can't land the interview,
[05:16] SPEAKER_02: you can't really sell yourself. So that was my challenge. I appreciate you sharing that because I
[05:21] SPEAKER_01: think it's very insightful that in and Canada specifically, it happens all over. But I think
[05:27] SPEAKER_01: Canada is very traditional in this way where a lot of the larger organizations they want to see
[05:32] SPEAKER_01: that path. And I think it's really insightful to share that because I'm guessing we have a lot of
[05:36] SPEAKER_01: listeners who are feeling that struggle as well, right? Who are educated. They're trying to change
[05:41] SPEAKER_01: industry. They're trying to land something they want. And it's really easy to say there's
[05:46] SPEAKER_01: something wrong with us. It's it's me as opposed to say, actually, there's a systemic problem here.
[05:51] SPEAKER_02: Absolutely. And especially if you've had any element of self-employment on your resume,
[05:57] SPEAKER_02: unfortunately, most employers are going to look at that as a negative. You know, they're going to say,
[06:02] SPEAKER_02: oh, they were self-employed or they were consulting. So there's no proof. I don't see a well-known
[06:06] SPEAKER_02: brand on this person's resume. I can't prove what they did. And I don't understand it. And I think,
[06:12] SPEAKER_02: you know, that kind of worked against me where I I'd done some consulting work. And again, if I
[06:16] SPEAKER_02: had landed the interview, I'd have references from clients being able to show quantifiable results
[06:22] SPEAKER_02: in my success. But you just see self-employed or consulting on someone's resume. And for some reason,
[06:28] SPEAKER_02: you think, oh, they just weren't working during that period of time. So I agree. I think there's
[06:32] SPEAKER_02: a lot of people out there. And if they're especially if you have an entrepreneurial nature to you,
[06:36] SPEAKER_02: there's probably an element in your life or a time period in your life where you did some
[06:40] SPEAKER_02: some consulting work or some independent self-employment, you know, projects. So I think it's
[06:47] SPEAKER_02: unfortunate. And a lot of a lot of great talent goes unnoticed just because of that.
[06:52] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I completely agree with you. And I think that there's a real opportunity. I'm seeing more
[06:57] SPEAKER_01: organizations. I'm guessing your company is probably a little like this based on your experience
[07:01] SPEAKER_01: that are much they're looking for entrepreneurial people to work inside. So that idea of an
[07:06] SPEAKER_01: entrepreneur, right? Where having that experience is actually a benefit. It's not a detriment.
[07:13] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely. When I screen, you know, resumes and candidates now, I actually look for that.
[07:18] SPEAKER_02: And I think it takes guts for people to be able to, you know, leave a stable job and a stable
[07:24] SPEAKER_02: career and kind of bet your up on the road and at least give it a go. And I mean, I've hired
[07:28] SPEAKER_02: people that they tell me they're like, look, I tried to start my own business. It didn't go well.
[07:33] SPEAKER_02: And I really want to join a company like this so I can learn so that one day I can go back and
[07:38] SPEAKER_02: start a company again, but at least I've seen it first and learned. Not a lot of respect for that,
[07:43] SPEAKER_02: you know, not everyone that was self-employed was successful. So I think it's okay to admit,
[07:48] SPEAKER_02: hey, I tried it. I failed this time around, but I'm going to start a company again one day. And for
[07:53] SPEAKER_01: now, I just want to take on a job and learn. And I think it's, I think it's a real, there's a lot
[07:59] SPEAKER_01: to be said for someone who is self-aware enough and honest enough to say, this is not necessarily what
[08:04] SPEAKER_01: I want to be doing for the rest of my life. And here's a future goal. And I think one of the best
[08:09] SPEAKER_01: things that employers can do, and I love that you're doing this is say, cool, come get that experience
[08:15] SPEAKER_01: with me because that's just, that's great for you. It's great for them. You know, when they're done
[08:19] SPEAKER_01: there out in the world evangelizing you as a leader and like, I don't understand the,
[08:24] SPEAKER_01: the resistance that so many organizations have to that. Yeah, it's like they think it's 1950 and
[08:30] SPEAKER_01: someone's going to be there for 40 years no matter what. And you know what, there are people who want
[08:35] SPEAKER_02: to get their foot in a company and have some stability over 10, 20 years and that's great. We
[08:39] SPEAKER_02: have roles for those individuals as well. But I always wanted lust to be a platform that catapult's
[08:45] SPEAKER_02: others careers forward. And I think that's something that has always drawn me to at least, you know,
[08:50] SPEAKER_02: we're a small team right now about 35 people. But I think everyone on my team has at some point in
[08:55] SPEAKER_02: their interview indicated that, hey, one day I might want to start my own company. And I'm like,
[08:59] SPEAKER_02: that's great. I would love to see a whole bunch of entrepreneurs come out of lust and everyone
[09:04] SPEAKER_02: starts their own, you know, their own empire. That's amazing. I love that, I love that you have that
[09:08] SPEAKER_01: approach. Just I think it's really wonderful. And I think it's very refreshing to hear from a CEO
[09:13] SPEAKER_01: that like this is something that you value in people. Yeah, absolutely. I want to talk a little bit
[09:18] SPEAKER_01: about less than what what made you decide to, I know you said that, you know, that you saw a real
[09:23] SPEAKER_01: opportunity to fill a gap in the market. So tell me a little bit about what your experience deciding
[09:29] SPEAKER_01: to step into this and how it all happened because it feels like as someone who has no background
[09:34] SPEAKER_01: and consumer package goods at all, that would feel very intimidating for me to suddenly be like,
[09:39] SPEAKER_02: I want to create a product. Right. Well, I think ignorance is bliss. And I think I think the fact
[09:47] SPEAKER_02: that I didn't know everything that I know today about this industry and how much work would have
[09:51] SPEAKER_02: been involved is probably what helped me kind of take those initial steps. Otherwise, now that I
[09:56] SPEAKER_02: mean, this is now, we've just entered year five with the company. And I'm glad to see you.
[10:01] SPEAKER_02: I know that I thank you. I don't think I would have taken that first step. So sometimes when you're
[10:06] SPEAKER_02: really early on in your research and, you know, you just really get into over researching something,
[10:12] SPEAKER_02: you'll talk yourself out of any idea. So you almost have to just see the two steps in front of you
[10:17] SPEAKER_02: and be able to take those two steps. And then once you reach that, be like, okay, what are the next
[10:21] SPEAKER_02: two steps? Okay, I can do this and just take it and bite size pieces and just do that. And that's
[10:27] SPEAKER_02: what worked for me. But as far as why the space, I mean, my hair, this has product in it. And without
[10:33] SPEAKER_02: product, my hair looks like this. So I'm a big poofy, you know, frisball and I grew up getting
[10:39] SPEAKER_02: teased for my hair. I've been called every name in the book, Chiapet, SciShow Bob, you know, you name
[10:46] SPEAKER_02: it. I've heard it. I hated my hair growing up, straightened it, always had it up in a bun,
[10:51] SPEAKER_02: braided it, tried to hide it. But, you know, I started buying hair products when I was 15. And I was
[10:56] SPEAKER_02: 35 when I started less. So that's 20 years of going into specialty stores, the lawn,
[11:03] SPEAKER_02: struck stores, you name it to pick up products. And I still haven't found something that worked.
[11:08] SPEAKER_02: So all the products that work were full of sulfates and silicones and harsh ingredients. So they
[11:13] SPEAKER_02: worked, but I knew they were doing damage to my hair. And then the products that were organic
[11:17] SPEAKER_02: or natural, they just, they didn't work. I needed four or five different products to do this.
[11:22] SPEAKER_02: And I was just fed up, you know, the older you get, at least in my case, I was looking for
[11:27] SPEAKER_02: simplification in my personal skincare and hair care routines. I thought, why hasn't anyone
[11:33] SPEAKER_02: created a product that's an all-in-one product that does the job of these other four or five that
[11:38] SPEAKER_02: I'm piling on to my hair? And that kind of, that one question of standing in a beauty supply store,
[11:44] SPEAKER_02: reading the back of a new product label, I thought, okay, there's got to be a reason no one's done
[11:48] SPEAKER_02: and I thought the main reason was they want to sell us more stuff. And let me just go out there
[11:53] SPEAKER_02: and see if I can create it. So my company started with me googling how to start a hair care brand.
[12:00] SPEAKER_02: And I know that's a great thing. Literally, that's what happened.
[12:04] SPEAKER_01: That's phenomenal. I love that that was that was the starting point. It was a Google search.
[12:09] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, a Google search. How to start a hair care brand? Of course, that didn't help. So then you,
[12:14] SPEAKER_02: you know, you find experts in the industry, you shorten your learning curve, you pick up the phone,
[12:18] SPEAKER_02: you call people, you learn. But yeah, I think it all, it all just goes back to figuring out with
[12:23] SPEAKER_02: the next two steps are and taking those two steps and then thinking, okay, what are the next two steps?
[12:29] SPEAKER_01: I think that that's a very, it's a really wonderful piece of advice for people to keep in mind,
[12:34] SPEAKER_01: because we look at where, you know, we look at where lust is now and where you are now and people say,
[12:39] SPEAKER_01: oh my gosh, I mean, I could never do that. How do I, how do you do that? And I think your point is
[12:43] SPEAKER_01: really valid that you didn't, it's not like five years ago, you went great. Here I am at the end
[12:49] SPEAKER_01: point of where I'm going to be now. It was two steps, two steps, two steps to move forward and
[12:54] SPEAKER_02: incrementally. Yep, that's all it was. And like I said, if I, if I had tried to overthink it and
[12:59] SPEAKER_02: overplan it, which is I think what a lot of entrepreneurs do, they want to figure everything out
[13:04] SPEAKER_02: before they actually start, then you talk yourself out of it because it is hard. And no matter what
[13:09] SPEAKER_02: type of business you want to start, it's a lot of work, it's a lot to learn, it's, it's a lot.
[13:15] SPEAKER_02: So I think, you know, it being able to be a little bit ignorant to what you're getting into
[13:21] SPEAKER_01: is actually really helpful. Yeah, I think that's a valid point. I am a person who can definitely
[13:27] SPEAKER_01: over research things because I will be like, well, let me know, you're not going to know everything.
[13:32] SPEAKER_01: And I don't do it to predict, it's like a knowledge thing. But if you're over researching to try
[13:37] SPEAKER_01: and predict every outcome to try and plan for everything, you're never going to move forward. Exactly.
[13:43] SPEAKER_01: So now that you're five years in to less, looking back, what do you think that, you know, what,
[13:50] SPEAKER_01: what are some of the lessons, I guess is how I would say that you learned that either worked really
[13:55] SPEAKER_01: well for you or you would never do again. I would probably never self fund a company again.
[14:03] SPEAKER_02: Yeah. It was, it was really hard. And I mean, obviously, five years in, I'm glad I did it this way.
[14:10] SPEAKER_02: I learned everything because we didn't have money. You know, I took less than a hundred thousand
[14:15] SPEAKER_02: dollars and start off capital. And most of that was from my own personal credit line. So I put
[14:20] SPEAKER_02: myself in debt to start this company. And then I got a small loan from the BDC and Future Pneur.
[14:28] SPEAKER_02: So I, you know, I hustled and I worked really hard and I worked around the clock because I didn't
[14:33] SPEAKER_02: have a choice and I didn't have a safety net. I mean, I literally put myself in a lot of debt.
[14:38] SPEAKER_02: So for me, you know, success was, it was the only option. It was either that bankruptcy.
[14:43] SPEAKER_02: But it's a lot of pressure. I think if I was going to do it again, you know, and if fundraising
[14:49] SPEAKER_02: or raising some sort of start of capital, that's not your own money, I would, I would definitely
[14:54] SPEAKER_02: recommend it just to alleviate the pressure and the stress at the beginning. And to give you some
[14:59] SPEAKER_02: a little bit of funding to hire earlier, I mean, in the entire first year of our company, it was just me.
[15:04] SPEAKER_02: And two remote part-time contractors. One was helping me with customer service. And the other
[15:10] SPEAKER_02: one was helping with digital marketing, which means I did everything else myself, whether it was
[15:14] SPEAKER_02: supply chain logistics operations, you know, production and working with our third party contract
[15:19] SPEAKER_02: manufacturers, the content and social media. It was a lot. So it is a lot.
[15:27] SPEAKER_02: And, you know, I worked, I worked 12 to 18 hours a day, six, seven days a week for the entire
[15:34] SPEAKER_02: first year. So I think self-funding was great. And I don't think I had a choice. I mean, I tried to
[15:41] SPEAKER_02: raise money and no one really believed that a shampoo company would be successful, let alone
[15:46] SPEAKER_02: highly profitable and a fast growth company. So I didn't have a choice, but to self-fund, but I think
[15:51] SPEAKER_02: that if entrepreneurs do have a choice, especially earlier on when you're thinking about dilution and,
[15:57] SPEAKER_02: you know, do you want to give up a piece of your company early on? If you find the right investors
[16:00] SPEAKER_02: and the right partners, I think it'll just alleviate a lot of the stress and pressure off of you early on.
[16:07] SPEAKER_00: Today's podcast is brought to you by the cooperators. You can count on them to support you and your
[16:13] SPEAKER_00: business with a full range of insurance coverage options. Their products provide the flexibility you
[16:19] SPEAKER_00: want with the protection you expect to find a cooperator's advisor near you visit cooperators.ca.
[16:28] SPEAKER_01: That's really interesting because there's always challenges with, you know, getting funding or
[16:35] SPEAKER_01: finding an investor and you clearly faced some of them and, you know, funded yourself. And there's
[16:43] SPEAKER_01: if you had had an investor or someone to, you know, fund whatever you want to call it, there's
[16:49] SPEAKER_01: challenges that come with that as well. So it's really interesting to hear your perspective on that
[16:55] SPEAKER_01: because it's, there's no right or wrong. It's your experience is valuable for other people to hear
[17:02] SPEAKER_01: and understand. And I think it's really interesting that it was challenging to find people interested
[17:09] SPEAKER_01: in investing in a product like this because I would think that this would be given the gap in the
[17:17] SPEAKER_01: market would have been something very appealing to investors. See, investors don't get that though. They
[17:21] SPEAKER_02: think it's so niche. What people don't realize is that 60% of the people in the world have some sort
[17:26] SPEAKER_02: of wave curl or a king to their hair. Right. They think curly hair is such a niche market or they're
[17:32] SPEAKER_02: enough customers out there that would buy your product and, you know, it's so competitive and it's
[17:36] SPEAKER_02: so fragmented and how are you going to market the products? And those are valid concerns and valid
[17:41] SPEAKER_02: questions. But I mean, I had a full-fledged proper business plan and I thought, you know, my expensive
[17:47] SPEAKER_02: MBA can at least come in handy for this one thing I can write a business plan, you know, but I still
[17:52] SPEAKER_02: struggle being able to sell the vision. And sometimes it's okay, you know, when people challenge you
[17:58] SPEAKER_02: and ask questions, you just have to go out there and prove it and prove it on a smaller scale and
[18:03] SPEAKER_02: then go out and raise funding. So eventually I did, I did a seed round and I got into the Y
[18:09] SPEAKER_02: Combinator program, you know, in California and went out there, lived in Mountain View for three
[18:13] SPEAKER_02: months, went through the YCOM program. It was an incredible experience for me. And then when we
[18:18] SPEAKER_02: completed the program, I raised a million dollars from seed round ventures and angels and
[18:23] SPEAKER_02: those investors, I mean, I have a great investor group and at the time, I didn't even need that
[18:28] SPEAKER_02: money, but I took it to form an advisory board. So, you know, it's about finding the right investors.
[18:35] SPEAKER_02: And again, for me, it wasn't even their money. It was connections, knowledge, just bringing smart,
[18:42] SPEAKER_02: incredible people around me because I knew the business was going to go through ups and downs
[18:45] SPEAKER_02: and I wanted people with different types of experiences and skillset. So I could call on them and say,
[18:50] SPEAKER_02: hey, I'm facing this challenge and our operations, what do you think? Or I'm recruiting for the
[18:56] SPEAKER_02: senior level executive. Do you mind having a look at their resume for me? And, you know, I'm running
[19:00] SPEAKER_02: a technical interview. I'm not a technical founder, but I've got someone on my advisory board now that
[19:05] SPEAKER_02: I call them an advisory board. They're my investors, but really they're my advisors. And,
[19:09] SPEAKER_02: you know, it's just been, it's been good to have that support network for my investors, but
[19:13] SPEAKER_02: they've been great investors, meaning they're not on me. I don't feel harassed or hassle. I don't
[19:18] SPEAKER_02: feel pressure, you know, that it's been a good relationship. And I think as an entrepreneur,
[19:23] SPEAKER_02: that's that's probably one of the most important decisions you make is one, do you take money and
[19:29] SPEAKER_02: two, who do you take money from? Because I've talked to a lot of founders who have ended up selling
[19:33] SPEAKER_02: their companies and their main reason was to get their investors off their back. So you don't want
[19:39] SPEAKER_01: to end up there. Your story, well, yes, that I have also heard many of those stories, which is
[19:46] SPEAKER_01: really unfortunate, because you don't always know what you're getting yourself into. But I love
[19:50] SPEAKER_01: that you have a team of investors, a team, a group of like a super team, my team of investors,
[19:57] SPEAKER_01: your team of investors that you're that is really like an advisory council. And I think that
[20:04] SPEAKER_01: I think that's a really important thing to emphasize is if you think of and recognizing that you
[20:11] SPEAKER_01: don't always have a lot of choice with investors, I appreciate that. But if you do, and you did
[20:16] SPEAKER_01: you were in a position, thinking of them as would I want this person to be on my board of advisors,
[20:22] SPEAKER_01: let's say, I think it's a really smart question to ask yourself as you get into those conversations.
[20:31] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, the partners that YC will tell you, they're like, listen, no investors are ever
[20:35] SPEAKER_02: going to build your company for you. Don't rely on investors to do anything for you or help you
[20:40] SPEAKER_02: anyway. Look at it as just money. And you know, you need to go out and raise X dollars as quickly
[20:46] SPEAKER_02: as possible so you can get back to operating your company. And while that's true, it, you know,
[20:52] SPEAKER_02: I 100% agree we can't rely on investors to help and you can't say, oh, I'm taking money from this,
[20:57] SPEAKER_02: you know, this venture and they help this company blow up so they're probably going to help me.
[21:02] SPEAKER_02: They're not like you have to build your own company. But I think it's the individuals, especially
[21:06] SPEAKER_02: at large funds, you're not dealing with the fun you're dealing with your your account manager and
[21:11] SPEAKER_02: the individuals and the portfolio manager. So having a good relationship and being being really
[21:16] SPEAKER_02: upfront and honest with who you are and who you're not and the fact that, you know, like I've never
[21:21] SPEAKER_02: been some founders like fundraising, I personally never enjoyed it. So I was really, really upfront when
[21:27] SPEAKER_02: I was talking to investors saying, look, like, I'm not the kind to just go out and have dinner and
[21:31] SPEAKER_02: meet coffee. I mean, I want to work. I want to build this company. And I want to, you know, I want to
[21:35] SPEAKER_02: turn your money into more money. And that's it. So I was very upfront with who I am as a founder
[21:40] SPEAKER_02: and what they could expect from me and my own limitations. And I think being upfront and clear in
[21:47] SPEAKER_02: your communication, your expectations with your investors is really important.
[21:52] SPEAKER_01: How much of that like deep knowing of yourself and ability to be that authentic and aware comes
[21:58] SPEAKER_01: from working in different countries where like where do you think that comes? Because I have
[22:04] SPEAKER_01: thoughts on where that comes from. But I, you know, I'd love to hear where you think that comes
[22:08] SPEAKER_01: from because I think a lot of times we're talking to at least I end up talking to founders who are
[22:14] SPEAKER_01: like 25 years old and just have a degree and they don't have that confidence. Right. No, I think age
[22:21] SPEAKER_02: age does play a factor. I mean, like I said, I was in my 30s when I started LUS. I see a lot of
[22:27] SPEAKER_02: very young successful entrepreneurs and I mean, my hats off to them. I don't know where they get
[22:32] SPEAKER_02: their confidence from, but I think, you know, as you go on in life and you face failure and challenges
[22:37] SPEAKER_02: and you have to get back up and you almost realize it's never the end, it's never the end of the world.
[22:43] SPEAKER_02: Like I can actually start this venture and it's okay and as long as I'm doing it my way and learning
[22:47] SPEAKER_02: and enjoying the process, it's okay. Like I don't have to prove myself to anybody. And having that level
[22:54] SPEAKER_02: of confidence and being self-aware, I know for me it took me a long time, you know, it took me until
[22:59] SPEAKER_02: my 30s and I'm glad that I lived in different countries and was able to experience different
[23:04] SPEAKER_02: industries and even different roles just to see what I liked and I always say I mean I learned
[23:10] SPEAKER_02: on other people's dimes when I was an employee or even when I was consulting for my clients,
[23:15] SPEAKER_02: I was learning on the job and I think that's really, really valuable and that's something that I tell,
[23:21] SPEAKER_02: you know, my staff as well is just learn. Like I am paying you to learn. You can make mistakes on my
[23:26] SPEAKER_02: dime because one day you're going to start your own company and I'd love to invest in your company
[23:31] SPEAKER_02: and I want you to learn your mistakes here. So I'm grateful to all the people that, you know,
[23:36] SPEAKER_02: gave me an opportunity, gave me a job and allowed me to learn on their dime. I think that gave me
[23:41] SPEAKER_02: confidence by the time I was ready to start my own venture. I love that. I think that's a really
[23:46] SPEAKER_01: important lesson for people and I want to know what the biggest lesson you learned was in all of
[23:53] SPEAKER_01: these experiences or the few big. I mean, listen, I want to be able to tell you, ask me the biggest
[23:57] SPEAKER_01: lesson. I'll be like, I have four. Let me tell you my four. I can never come up with just one. So
[24:02] SPEAKER_02: there's so many. My team and I joke that I should write a book and call it like 101 reasons not to
[24:09] SPEAKER_02: start a company every day. I mean, it's a challenge, right? It's two steps forward five back and it's
[24:17] SPEAKER_02: just as constant up and down. I think one of the things I would have done differently is probably
[24:24] SPEAKER_02: brought in more senior level help earlier on. Right now, I mean, again, it's year five and I'm
[24:30] SPEAKER_02: recruiting simultaneously for a CFO, a CRO, Chief Revenue Officer and a President GM. Because while
[24:38] SPEAKER_02: my team is great, we are all including me learning on the job every single day. I mean, I've never been
[24:44] SPEAKER_02: the CEO of a multi-million dollar consumer brand. And there's a lot of things that come with
[24:53] SPEAKER_02: experience that you just can't replace. So we've done really well in the team's amazing, great
[24:59] SPEAKER_02: culture. We've worked really hard, but you just get to a point where you're like, holy, this is
[25:03] SPEAKER_02: bigger than all of us combined. We've really need people that have done this before. So I think I
[25:08] SPEAKER_02: probably would have hired. And again, I think you can almost hire two senior, two early and that
[25:13] SPEAKER_02: doesn't work either. Agreed. But, you know, I think, and I mean, I talk about this and it's four
[25:19] SPEAKER_02: years in. So it's probably I'm not behind on this, but I think it would have helped, especially if
[25:24] SPEAKER_02: you're a solo founder, just to have someone on your team that has more experience than you,
[25:30] SPEAKER_02: just running a company overall because you're learning. And regardless of how much prior experience
[25:35] SPEAKER_02: you've had, unless you've sat in a CEOC, it's a lot of responsibility. And I think it just helps to
[25:40] SPEAKER_02: have someone else that has maybe been in that seat or sea level seat and can help, you know, take
[25:46] SPEAKER_02: on some of the responsibility because it's a lot. I think it's really good advice to especially
[25:50] SPEAKER_01: startup founders who are looking to build a business, not just be a solo printer forever or,
[25:56] SPEAKER_01: you know, run a really small agency or which is all valid. Those are all valid businesses. It's a
[26:02] SPEAKER_01: wonderful thing to do. And if you're looking at it, it's often startups that are looking at building
[26:08] SPEAKER_01: that larger organization, ultimately. I think it's an important message for them to be aware of
[26:14] SPEAKER_01: because we have the fallacy that we can do it all ourselves. It's fine. I'll figure it out.
[26:18] SPEAKER_01: When the time is right, I love it. You're like, yes, bad.
[26:23] SPEAKER_02: And there, yeah, I've worn every hat in this company. It's a lot. And it's again being able to
[26:30] SPEAKER_02: admit your own shortcomings and your own lack of experience and say, hey, I've been wearing this
[26:35] SPEAKER_02: hat. I shouldn't be. I'm not the most qualified person to be sitting in the seat. And as your company,
[26:41] SPEAKER_02: you know, big gains its legs and it starts to become more and more of a real company,
[26:47] SPEAKER_02: you really look at it and say, hey, would I hire myself for this role? Probably not. Let me go out and
[26:52] SPEAKER_02: find someone to do these things that I'm currently doing for the company and doing good enough,
[26:57] SPEAKER_02: but not excellent, you know? So yeah, I think I probably would have brought in more senior level
[27:04] SPEAKER_02: support. I just someone who's been in the industry has the experience to support me and build
[27:08] SPEAKER_01: on the company, but never too late. We're starting now. And I mean, good luck as you are on that job.
[27:14] SPEAKER_01: Search truly, I wish you the best of luck because the best candidate is the best fit for you
[27:20] SPEAKER_01: because every company is different. And I, you know, I'm very conscientious of that. I think that
[27:25] SPEAKER_02: is a wonderful and unique challenge. Yeah, thank you. But it's exciting. You know, you go from
[27:32] SPEAKER_02: not having the funds to hire people. And like I said at the beginning, nobody would hire me.
[27:37] SPEAKER_02: And now just seeing the the profiles and resumes coming in from highly qualified candidates,
[27:44] SPEAKER_02: it's rewarding just to have a chance to speak with these individuals. And I'm looking forward
[27:48] SPEAKER_02: to building the team and growing and learning from my team as well. I love that. I really,
[27:54] SPEAKER_01: I want to commend you for how open and clear you are on the importance of learning for yourself
[28:01] SPEAKER_01: and for your organization and for, you know, I think a lot of companies don't like to talk about
[28:05] SPEAKER_01: failure. They don't like to talk about you have to fail to learn. Like if you're not failing,
[28:11] SPEAKER_01: you're not learning and growing and, and, you know, a real thread in what you've said is that
[28:16] SPEAKER_01: concept of of making mistakes and learning from them. And that, that is okay. And I really want to
[28:21] SPEAKER_01: commend you for it because I don't hear it often enough. Thank you. And, you know, it's, you get to a
[28:27] SPEAKER_02: point that we're like, oh, I can't afford to make mistakes anymore. There's all these people
[28:32] SPEAKER_02: that are relying on me to make the right decision. So it's a lot of responsibility. And, and that's
[28:37] SPEAKER_02: how I really look at my role as as CEO and, you know, as the company grows and I really start to
[28:42] SPEAKER_02: think about what a true CEO would be doing on a day to day. And what my expectations would be if I
[28:47] SPEAKER_02: hire to CEO. And am I living up to those expectations, you know, and really just taking full responsibility
[28:54] SPEAKER_02: for every single person that we hire and add to the team. It's, you know, these people are relying
[28:59] SPEAKER_02: on this job and this company to continue to grow and, and, and succeed because it's, it's how
[29:05] SPEAKER_02: they're paying their mortgages. It's how they're putting food on the table for their families. So
[29:09] SPEAKER_02: we can't play around them. And I have to make the right decisions. And as founder and CEO, it's your
[29:14] SPEAKER_02: job to steer your ship and making sure that we're steering in the right direction. And, um, you know,
[29:20] SPEAKER_02: just always always thinking about it in that light. It's a big responsibility. And I definitely don't
[29:26] SPEAKER_01: take it for granted. Yeah. I love that. What does the future of less look like? Like, what are you
[29:33] SPEAKER_01: thinking? Is the future of of your of you and your organizing? Because, you know what? It's funny
[29:40] SPEAKER_02: because we're like I said, in year five now, but I feel like we barely straight the surface.
[29:45] SPEAKER_02: I love that. That's great. I have so many ideas and there's so much room left for growth. And
[29:51] SPEAKER_02: it's exciting and we're very lucky in that we have to think about which way should we grow? And
[29:56] SPEAKER_02: what's the best way to grow? And do we have the internal resources to pursue these new growth
[30:01] SPEAKER_02: opportunities? So tons of growth, new products in the hair care vertical related product verticals,
[30:07] SPEAKER_02: geographic expansion. We've just set up our first three P. Alpha Film and Center in Europe.
[30:12] SPEAKER_02: So congratulations. That's phenomenal. Yeah. So we're going to be shipping within the EU
[30:19] SPEAKER_02: from the EU now. So cutting down on shipping times and shipping costs. So this is kind of a
[30:24] SPEAKER_02: test to say can we go direct to consumer and copy what we did in North America around the world
[30:30] SPEAKER_02: by setting up different three P. L. So just still testing on, you know, a small scale and saying,
[30:36] SPEAKER_02: okay, great, if this works in Europe, we could do it in South America, could we do in the Middle
[30:40] SPEAKER_02: East? Can we, you know, do it in Australia? So yeah, it's exciting and just see the team growing and
[30:46] SPEAKER_02: just, you know, I think staying true to your mission and your values as the company gets bigger,
[30:52] SPEAKER_02: we always go back to what are our core values and what are the teams values? What are the brands values?
[30:58] SPEAKER_02: What was the brand built on to make sure that we don't steer away from that?
[31:01] SPEAKER_01: So I want to ask this question, which you're talking about values, because I do a lot of
[31:08] SPEAKER_01: me personally, I do a lot of work with organizations on culture, leadership development. That's what
[31:13] SPEAKER_01: my business is about. So I talk about values a lot. I am curious what your
[31:19] SPEAKER_01: use of our, what your core values are and then what, and if luses are different or if they're the same?
[31:26] SPEAKER_02: That's a good question. So my own personal values became the values that we incorporated into
[31:31] SPEAKER_02: our employee handbook and that is hustle, heart and humility. So they're the three
[31:36] SPEAKER_02: ages and as a team collectively, when we sat around and said what is it? When it was just four or
[31:41] SPEAKER_02: five of us and said what is it about us that makes us us? It was everyone on the team has hustle
[31:47] SPEAKER_02: and that means, you know, nobody thinks nine to five. No one, I mean, people say, oh, I think outside
[31:52] SPEAKER_02: the box, but here we don't have a box. It's just a kind of go-getter, you know, get it done no
[31:58] SPEAKER_02: matter what mentality. So it's that constant hustle and then having heart just, you know, being
[32:03] SPEAKER_02: authentic and being just genuine and caring about what you're doing and not doing things for the
[32:10] SPEAKER_02: sake of meeting a KPI or quota, but putting your heart into everything you do. And then humility is
[32:16] SPEAKER_02: really simple. Stay humble, you know, and as we grow, it's constantly reminding ourselves and
[32:21] SPEAKER_02: reminding each other, you know, we got to stay humble and there's still a lot of room to grow and
[32:26] SPEAKER_02: just realizing anything could change. I mean, look, COVID hit so many companies were impacted. I
[32:32] SPEAKER_02: mean, we were just lucky. We were, you know, 100% DTC play consumer brand. We didn't have physical
[32:38] SPEAKER_02: stores, but there are so many companies and, you know, this pandemic has devastated so many
[32:44] SPEAKER_02: different industries and companies and it's sad, but you also have to stay humble that just because
[32:49] SPEAKER_02: we weren't impacted this time around, doesn't mean something else can't come and impact us. So
[32:53] SPEAKER_02: never thinking that you've made it, never thinking you're ahead. Yeah, so hustle, heart, humility.
[32:59] SPEAKER_02: And then on the brand side, you know, we've got our values listed on our website, but
[33:03] SPEAKER_02: keeping things refreshingly real, like using real customers in our ads and not Photoshop models.
[33:10] SPEAKER_02: We don't airbrush anything like everything is as it is. Amen. Yeah, I mean, it's, it just is what it is,
[33:17] SPEAKER_02: right? Keeping things as real as possible and being transparent and honest with our customers.
[33:23] SPEAKER_02: Like we communicate with our customers all the time and we keep it super, super real. We divulge
[33:29] SPEAKER_02: information that a lot of consumer brands probably wouldn't tell, you know, let their customer
[33:33] SPEAKER_02: base know what we do. And it's paid off for us. I think, you know, customers just came to trust us
[33:38] SPEAKER_02: because they knew we weren't always going to tell them what they wanted to hear, but it was going
[33:41] SPEAKER_02: to be the truth and it was going to be honest. So yeah, those are a few of our values. I love that.
[33:48] SPEAKER_01: Before we wrap this up, I'm going to ask this question. You might have noticed that I have a few
[33:52] SPEAKER_01: books on my shelf. Yeah. So I'm wondering if there is a book or a podcast or something,
[34:00] SPEAKER_01: whatever, it's not everyone's a book nerd. Like mine would always be a book. I'm not saying yours
[34:04] SPEAKER_01: has to be. But that you would say this made a difference in my life somehow that you would
[34:09] SPEAKER_02: recommend to our listeners or our viewers. There are so many, but you know, I started my career out
[34:14] SPEAKER_02: in Dota Door, Commission Only Sales. And back then, our Bible was Aug Mandino's greatest salesman
[34:20] SPEAKER_02: in the world. And I still recommend whether your careers and sales are not. I think everybody should
[34:26] SPEAKER_02: read that book. It's a great little book. You probably read it in a matter of hours, but you know,
[34:33] SPEAKER_02: no matter what you do in life, you're always selling. Whether as an entrepreneur, you're trying to
[34:37] SPEAKER_02: sell investors on your idea and your vision and, you know, or you're selling potential candidates
[34:44] SPEAKER_02: to come and join you at your company or you're selling your existing employees on the future of the
[34:49] SPEAKER_02: company. I mean, it's sales has such a negative connotation as a word on its own, but we're always
[34:54] SPEAKER_02: selling. And as entrepreneurs, we are selling more often than the average human being. So I think
[34:59] SPEAKER_02: no matter what industry you're going into, just being able to hone in on sales psychology and
[35:05] SPEAKER_02: just some basic and sales. And that's a great book. I think it's a wonderful suggestion. Thank you
[35:10] SPEAKER_01: for joining me today. Thank you for sharing. Absolutely. It was a pleasure. Our you will have all the
[35:17] SPEAKER_01: links to your website and social media, but for those listening, it's less brands l us brands.ca
[35:23] SPEAKER_01: or at less brands on social media. You can check out all of Sahara's amazing products there. Thank
[35:28] SPEAKER_01: you for your time. I really appreciate it. And I look forward to speaking with you again sometime.
[35:33] SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Stanley. And it was a pleasure. Today's podcast is brought to you by the
[35:37] SPEAKER_00: cooperators. You can count on them to support you and your business with a full range of
[35:43] SPEAKER_00: insurance coverage options. Their products provide the flexibility you want with the protection
[35:49] SPEAKER_00: you expect. To find a cooperators advisor near you, visit cooperators.ca.