============================================================
TRANSCRIPTION WITH SPEAKERS
============================================================
[00:00] SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Candace Podcast.
[00:05] SPEAKER_00: Hi, this is Celine Williams hosting for Montereo for Canada's podcast.
[00:10] SPEAKER_00: My guest today is Renee Seprata, CEO and founder of Vivo team development.
[00:16] SPEAKER_00: Thank you for joining me today Renee.
[00:20] SPEAKER_01: It's great to be here. I just noticed that somebody outside started a chain saw.
[00:24] SPEAKER_00: Can you hear that? This is real life, real time,
[00:29] SPEAKER_00: podcast recorded.
[00:31] SPEAKER_00: All good. This is what happens.
[00:35] SPEAKER_00: That's good.
[00:36] SPEAKER_00: That's awesome. Nice to be here.
[00:38] SPEAKER_00: It's great to be here.
[00:39] SPEAKER_00: Absolutely. It's my pleasure. I'm really excited to talk to you today.
[00:42] SPEAKER_00: We were chatting a little bit before and what you do
[00:45] SPEAKER_00: is kind of in my wheelhouse of nerdy interests. So I'm excited about that.
[00:49] SPEAKER_00: More importantly, I'd love to know a little bit more about you
[00:54] SPEAKER_00: and for you to share a little bit with our listeners around how you
[00:57] SPEAKER_00: got to doing what you do today, how your entrepreneurial journey as it were.
[01:04] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, thanks so much.
[01:07] SPEAKER_01: I think the entrepreneurial journey is always one that ebbs and flows.
[01:12] SPEAKER_01: Ultimately at the end of the day, I'm a Canadian woman,
[01:15] SPEAKER_01: made a decision after I graduated that working for somebody else wasn't
[01:21] SPEAKER_01: that appealing to me and I didn't really know what was,
[01:24] SPEAKER_01: but working for myself sounded really appealing.
[01:27] SPEAKER_01: And so I've been a solo printer and now I'm an entrepreneur for me.
[01:30] SPEAKER_01: And entrepreneur means that you actually have a business and you have a team.
[01:33] SPEAKER_01: And you could actually sell that business and the team if you if you wanted not sell the team,
[01:38] SPEAKER_01: but you get what I'm talking about.
[01:40] SPEAKER_01: So you really have something.
[01:42] SPEAKER_01: And I think that deep down in my core, when I look at it,
[01:46] SPEAKER_01: along the way, I always wanted to do just that.
[01:49] SPEAKER_01: I wanted to build something that somebody else wanted.
[01:52] SPEAKER_01: And that's been sort of the core to who I am and why I am and how that path has been designed over time.
[02:03] SPEAKER_02: I love that.
[02:06] SPEAKER_02: So how?
[02:11] SPEAKER_00: I have so many questions that I want to ask.
[02:14] SPEAKER_00: But I'm going to start with, how did you get to the point of.
[02:20] SPEAKER_00: Of.
[02:22] SPEAKER_00: Running, creating not only running, but creating Vivo team development specifically,
[02:27] SPEAKER_00: like what were the kind of key things that came together for you in.
[02:33] SPEAKER_00: The current iteration of what you're doing.
[02:37] SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
[02:39] SPEAKER_02: Well.
[02:41] SPEAKER_01: A lot.
[02:43] SPEAKER_01: And when I say a lot, I'm going to say it from two different perspectives.
[02:50] SPEAKER_01: One personally and one professionally.
[02:52] SPEAKER_01: So personally, I have had a great opportunity in my upbringing to be influenced by extremely entrepreneurial family.
[03:01] SPEAKER_01: My father came to Canada from Prague.
[03:04] SPEAKER_01: He wasn't entrepreneur in the 60s.
[03:06] SPEAKER_01: He was in a home office designing projects throughout Europe.
[03:10] SPEAKER_01: So I went to bed at night, seeing him in his home office,
[03:14] SPEAKER_01: woke up in the morning, seeing him in his home office.
[03:16] SPEAKER_01: I also had a mom that constantly said, whatever you want to do, you just have faith and you go do it.
[03:23] SPEAKER_01: So those, those personal upbringing messages were critical to me, even taking a risk.
[03:30] SPEAKER_01: So obviously the entrepreneurial piece is a lot of risk.
[03:34] SPEAKER_01: And from a professional perspective, I'm going to kind of answer and say, I don't know.
[03:40] SPEAKER_01: And the reason why I say that, I don't know, is because I think that, you know, I said already I've been a solo entrepreneur.
[03:47] SPEAKER_01: I've been an entrepreneur a couple times.
[03:49] SPEAKER_01: I'm on my fifth venture.
[03:52] SPEAKER_01: And one venture kind of was a step, step stepping stone to the next venture.
[03:57] SPEAKER_01: And so if you ask me when I was on the first venture of being an interior architect and designing big box retail throughout North America for customers that had locations of
[04:08] SPEAKER_01: 10 to 110 locations and getting them figured out how to look all the same and have a great customer experience all the same.
[04:18] SPEAKER_01: How did that get me to being a woman at woman in tech, leading a high touch high tech learning and developing company.
[04:25] SPEAKER_01: I don't know, but it kind of unfolded along the way.
[04:28] SPEAKER_01: And each step that's led to the next step.
[04:30] SPEAKER_01: And I think that is the beauty of being an entrepreneur too, is that you don't have to know.
[04:35] SPEAKER_01: You know, you might just kind of throw the dirt in a direction, but you're willing to take a risk and perhaps stupid risk sometimes, you know, sometimes your financial risk can look quite stupid to your peer group who are working in corporations and they've got their whatever 401k or their RSP stacking up and you're like, oh, yeah, no, I traded that in.
[04:59] SPEAKER_01: And then I just put it into my business and they look at you like you're a nut bar or for me in the 80s when I was working from my home office, I think a lot of my peer group thought I was watching Oprah Winfrey all day long or something, right.
[05:13] SPEAKER_01: So there's a lot of that going on.
[05:15] SPEAKER_01: Is that is not I answer your question?
[05:16] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely. And I think that I think a lot of entrepreneurs, especially humans in general for the record, but entrepreneurs, especially are under the illusion that they need to whatever they decide to do right now has to be the B all end all it has to be the thing.
[05:37] SPEAKER_00: It's, you know, you don't want to change if you don't have to and if you're going to, you know, start ups have language around pivoting, which is also got a lot of toxic ramifications these days.
[05:52] SPEAKER_00: Because it implies a lack of commitment or research or whatever the case may be, I'm not saying it's the truth, but a lot of that is out there.
[05:57] SPEAKER_00: And I think what you're saying is it's what you're doing right now, you can be successful at multiple things in your life and what you're doing right now may open a door lead to something that you you're not going to be able to predict, you can't.
[06:09] SPEAKER_00: Would you have known when you started your business that you know, you're originally as an interior architect that this is what you would be doing probably not.
[06:16] SPEAKER_01: No way, no way, and I think the other thing is is that, you know, one of the beliefs that I have about my path in life and my career achievement is that I am constantly alive.
[06:30] SPEAKER_01: I haven't died on the vine like I have a lot of friends and you know, I have a lot of very alive friends and corporations, but I also have friends and peers who died on the vine.
[06:43] SPEAKER_01: They sold their soul to the paycheck and they've quit and they stayed particularly women, particularly women who have, you know, I had their children, but they're kind of like, you know what, I hate this job, but I'm going to stay in it until I'm 65 because I'm going to get the big payout and you're like, go friend, like that that's your entire life, like how you know, so.
[07:03] SPEAKER_01: So I resonate with that like the ability as a woman as a human being just to say, whatever I do, I don't always need the answer.
[07:14] SPEAKER_01: I want to remain alive, I want to be having fun and if I'm having fun right now and I can think of what's next to have fun with and that's cool and we haven't even talked about the great amazing people that start to join your team.
[07:26] SPEAKER_01: And they all bring their aliveness to the table and there's a little bit of hey, I'm going to jump in your boat and you can be in the stern here for a little bit and let's jump on your idea that you've got and I think that that's a lot of fun as well because you start to see people.
[07:42] SPEAKER_01: So be alive in their own right and that's exciting that's exciting for me right and so I actually am in the position right now in my late 50s where I'm really learning how to.
[07:54] SPEAKER_01: To learn being in the stern of the canoe like just let people come forward and let them resonate with the customers and say what they think is of interest right just just just for you know that it's that learning driving unlearning and following kind of thing right yeah.
[08:19] SPEAKER_00: I'm going to ask a question about your experience moving transitioning into a team environment right from a solo printer to running an organization that has a team and also recognizing that your business touches on team stuff so we'll probably get into that as well but I'm curious what what two things.
[08:41] SPEAKER_00: What worked really well and what would you you know suggest anyone who is transitioning into running a team or growing a team be aware of think about et cetera and also what maybe didn't work so well what were some of the lessons.
[08:57] Speaker UNKNOWN:
[08:58] Speaker UNKNOWN: I got lots of that.
[08:59] SPEAKER_00: I got lots of that.
[09:01] SPEAKER_01: I think my first advice is if you are a solo printer and you want to build a team do it before you think you can do it like meaning higher that number one person higher that number two person when you think you can't afford them go build a great relationship with your bank manager be okay with going into a line of credit if you need to so that you're using the banks money to support the salary the first person.
[09:30] SPEAKER_01: Don't take the risk like just do it because we in when you're a solo printer and you're not printer and you do everything it's exhausting and the last thing you want to do is burn out before you even make a penny.
[09:46] SPEAKER_01: So I think actually you know that was one of my mistakes is that I did in the early days have quite some anxiety and I would hire part time people to help me because I could afford them and I could keep that little security piece but when it you know it's probably a day when somebody came to me and said you know what you got me part time but actually I could do so much more for you if I was full time.
[10:10] SPEAKER_01: And then I you know open that up and I went whoa okay well with that look like and then that starts to cascade I think the other thing is just to be really really open to learning learning learning and learn your numbers like learn the finances of your business.
[10:28] SPEAKER_01: The numbers of your sales like learn your numbers get to know your numbers and when I talk about numbers as well learn about your personal numbers is your blood pressure good.
[10:39] SPEAKER_01: I like learn those numbers too because you have to learn about your stress your stress complex as a person as a human being running a business and that's important because that will start helping me you make decisions as well.
[10:55] SPEAKER_00: I don't think I've ever had anyone advise and I think it's great advice for the record but specifically advise the importance of getting to know yourself in that way.
[11:05] SPEAKER_00: You know stress numbers things like that when running and growing a team and I think it is really important that you called that out because things change it's a different type of stress when you're growing a team and when you're running a team and you feel responsible for people and their livelihoods and their salaries and all of that right I think that's a very different type of stress.
[11:29] SPEAKER_01: Yeah absolutely and I think it's really important too as you know we've just all of us have been through COVID all of us have done a lot more reflection on our lives on our boundaries on you know who are friends and who aren't our friends and our own health and how we want to boundary our lifestyle for our own health and if I can be a leader in an organization and model for the people on my team that these are the things that I think about and encourage them to think about it and I think it's a very important thing.
[11:58] SPEAKER_01: As well get healthy because we want you here for the long term we don't look at you here for the short term so be as healthy as you can be and what does that look like for you and how can we arrange things that make that work for you for you know for example we have people on our team who are mums and they don't have one kid they have multiple kids and they're having babies and okay like what are our plans from the business perspective and what are your plans.
[12:28] SPEAKER_01: From a human being and your family situation and how can this be a vehicle for you to get the best out of your career and the best out of your health and participate in something great that's it that excites me that's fun stuff and it gets us to know each other at a deeper level than we think and then my confidence is that those people are going to then develop the next level of leaders with those same value sets of health and that's a very important thing.
[12:58] SPEAKER_01: And wellness and great career achievement.
[13:02] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's that trickle down effect right that yeah it's real and it's important to be aware of it as you build a team and as you build the people you're working with every single day.
[13:18] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know I want to want to tell us story this is kind of interesting when we were building the Evo team we made the determination that we would have a healthy workplace and we're still working out of our homes from Halifax Toronto into Vancouver and we have one major home in Vancouver where multiple people were coming to work but we're always like if you're coming this is a healthy workplace because we're a lean team and we want to make sure that everybody's healthy.
[13:45] SPEAKER_01: And pre-COVID right people would still show up at the door with sniffles or headaches or flus or whatever we go why are you here oh I'm okay to work.
[13:57] SPEAKER_01: No, we talked about this this isn't part of our values right I think that the tables are turning now that people are more mindful of my health actually can have a direct and significant impact on other.
[14:11] SPEAKER_01: And so my stress if I don't if I'm not aware of my stress and I don't manage my stress that has a direct and significant impact on my team right so a lot of even with COVID a lot of the at the senior level at Vivo team we recognize it wasn't just going out to be in a group wasn't just about our own health and wellness was COVID it had a family.
[14:56] SPEAKER_01: And I think that is a lot of people still come into the office in small businesses and they don't realize the impact for the owners of the businesses right.
[15:05] SPEAKER_00: I think that is unfortunately very true and it's and it's yeah I appreciate you bring you know bring light to it because it's important to to be aware of it for sure I'm curious how so I'm curious to know a little bit more about Vivo team Vivo team development I'll say the proper name of the company Vivo team's good Vivo team's great.
[15:30] SPEAKER_00: Yeah to know what's the team to know a little bit more about Vivo team especially given you know everything that you've just shared about building a team and your lines on on how a team operates I'd love to know a little bit more about what Vivo team is and how that kind of aligns or shows up there for you.
[15:52] SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
[15:53] SPEAKER_01: Okay so let me come at that from a couple perspectives again essentially what we're doing is where we are currently creating educating and entertaining virtual experiences for leaders and teams we are measuring team productivity and effectiveness we bring that down to a bottom line dollar.
[16:12] SPEAKER_01: It's a labor efficiency essentially if you have your teams working more collaboratively together you need to hire fewer next year right so that's it's not really surgery.
[16:22] SPEAKER_01: It's complex but we've simplified it and I would say that Vivo team has come out of a number of different frustrations a number of different learnings and the desire to disrupt something that I saw and those who have been involved in building Vivo team.
[16:42] SPEAKER_01: We aligned and we saw years ago so 12 years ago when we looked at learning and development for leaders and teams we recognize that companies were at the age of 49 since somebody out for a day workshop learn how to be a leader was completely theoretical and they were out of the office for a day maybe even three days maybe even a week and then they turn around and their team was like what you do a Suzanne you know they didn't know what you look what she learned how she's coming back to the table with a different behavior.
[17:11] SPEAKER_01: So we decided that we'd sit down for 18 months 24 months and we do some deep research on what would the workplace of 2020 look like out of that work out of that that experience we not only built an algorithm on soft skill of competencies motivations and collaboration factors we built the algorithm to measure behavioral science.
[17:35] SPEAKER_01: And to extract four leaders the leader behavior gap and the leader effectiveness score so that they could be better leaders and that they could develop others basically we want to build inspiring leaders we were really lucky because we made the decision to choose to do everything virtual 10 years ago when we incorporated the Vivo team will be 10 in November so we're not quite 10.
[17:59] SPEAKER_01: But we made the decision to do everything virtual and it ended up being a great decision because we had the liberty of time we had eight years before COVID hit.
[18:09] SPEAKER_01: We made a lot of mistakes along the way but once we decided to deliver our programs virtually then everything followed now we need to sell virtually now we need to operate virtually where are staff going to come from our staff have always worked in home offices why because good people live in different places.
[18:29] SPEAKER_01: And so we had to do a lot of things to nurture their own lives but they still get the job done and so and they get the job done probably quite well so that's what that's a little bit more about what we do and and how we did it and I think that the most exciting piece about that was just again taking the rest to set aside do the research and throw a dart with confidence we call it a sound scientifically wild out of that.
[18:59] SPEAKER_01: And so we had to ask guess this way that this is what's going to happen we could have failed miserably we were really lucky and when COVID hit we were in four countries four of our customers took us into 19 countries so we have a global footprint and I think that's really allowed us to tap into a leader conversation from an action research perspective about what's going on or what's not going on right one thing can I say one thing about that.
[19:28] SPEAKER_01: And I want to say this when we're talking about health and wellness was one of the biggest things that I think that we're all learning is that employees right now want flexibility and if you really look at that the upper leaders of organizations have always had flexibility it's just been hidden they haven't talked about it they've been on a plane they've gone and pitched a chunk of business with a time crazy time zone they've been up all night figuring out that presentation they had a problem during the presentation whatever.
[19:58] SPEAKER_01: It is they've flown home their kids have been sick whatever and they've maxed it out like they've done the sprint to get the job done but then they take two days off or they you know just come in late the next day it could be just come in late the next day but they haven't told anybody that they're doing that so it's always been hidden so flexibility actually does existing organizations if top leaders and managers start to have the conversation about look this is how I manage my stress I do it.
[20:28] SPEAKER_01: By flexing my accountability to getting the job done and my accountability to my family and and it's flexible so if we start opening up those conversations this whole thing that people seem to be so afraid of which is flexibility is not so scary you know really when you ask people what's the flexibility you want a lot of people to say I just want to work at home on Friday afternoon come on we can do that right yeah.
[20:57] SPEAKER_00: Yeah that's just my little my little thought on that but I think it's an important thought because when we don't offer says now I'm going to get on a bit of a soap box I think when we don't acknowledge that that flexibility has existed and that it is possible.
[21:14] SPEAKER_00: Then people see what they think is the reality of the quote successful leaders in their organization or around them because this happens with entrepreneurs as well and they push and they push and they push because they're not seeing that balance or they're not aware of it because it's not spoken about and then you have lots of people who are burnt out or you know have other health problems that manifest all these different things because we're not having the conversation of what that is.
[21:44] SPEAKER_00: Flexibility and flexing looks like and and what it could be for people in different ways.
[21:51] SPEAKER_01: Yeah exactly and then what's the systemic what are the systemic core values that are leading to that right so this morning I was in a conversation with a couple people on my team we're talking about a particular organization where the leaders are working being paid for eight hours a day let's say and working 12 hours a day.
[22:10] SPEAKER_01: Well give your head a shake look into that the issue there is that the leaders don't know how to develop their next level of leaders to take on the weight of the four hours and that's their job but they just the company hasn't made the connection to giving them the support that they can make that you said the word pivot in their own career achievement to be better leaders and then that will result in them having a better life right so again.
[22:41] SPEAKER_01: That's what I love it when our clients say we have laughter in the hallways we have laughter in the cafeteria or we have laughter on the zoom calls when we hear that from our customers and that's for some reason seems to be what we hear it's a pinpoint to us that we have decreased stress by what we've done and that's exciting right.
[23:01] SPEAKER_00: Yeah I like that I hadn't I don't think I'd ever considered it but it is a really it's a quantitative quote unquote and yet qualitative thing that you can observe when it comes to laughter and stress right is it it's something that I mean you could literally count and observe and make it qualitative in some way or quantitative in some way but it is a qualitative like oh chances are
[23:31] SPEAKER_00: pretty good that if you're laughing more you're experiencing less stress or there's more stress relief available.
[23:39] SPEAKER_01: And you're more connected with your team members with your leader and there is permission that we can have some space to report on all of the great
[23:49] SPEAKER_01: accountability that we've done this week but we can also talk about how you know my my cat got into my crayons or something like that right that there's that and you can have a big joke about that and laugh about that and what does that mean well guess what I I as your leader
[24:09] SPEAKER_01: Celine just learned that cats are important to you and that is important when it comes down to a performance review that I know who you are and what you're about and I can gift you with some I don't know cat food or something whatever it is cat to us right.
[24:24] SPEAKER_00: Yeah and in the way where it's not just I think we have a systemic approach to things where it is you tell me about you so you tell me what your values are right and values are important please don't get me wrong and I think it's fair to say that most of our first approach to values
[24:50] SPEAKER_00: conversations or assessments for ourselves we look at the aspirational values not necessarily are lived values like oh yes integrity is my value 100% because that sounds good as opposed to it sells
[25:02] SPEAKER_00: right as opposed to like this is actually the priority if how I make decisions live my life show up every day so we often ask leaders you know we often rely on people to tell us what's important tell me what your values are tell me what's
[25:18] SPEAKER_00: important to you and the truth is that to what you're saying observing what people talk about the fact that they are you know their cats got in their crayons that they're you know partner whatever the amount they travel that they're digital
[25:33] SPEAKER_00: whatever it is that is can be much more insightful than relying on someone to do a values assessment and say integrity is my value exactly exactly so so this is this
[25:48] SPEAKER_01: what is one of the things that blew me away about covid people went to down the lockdown we now had whether your company had a good zoom protocol or teams protocol or not whatever it was
[26:01] SPEAKER_01: people got into this place of not being on video oh you know and they sidetracked oh well somebody's in my kitchen walking behind me or my kids doing their studies over there which I have a lot of empathy for parents boy oh boy
[26:17] SPEAKER_01: with their kids at home during covid but there was such an opportunity with exactly what is happening for you and I on zoom right now so as soon as you and I got on I looked at what was on your bookshelf now you got a
[26:33] SPEAKER_01: remember I'm from an interior design interior architectural standpoint as well so that's something is important to me right but it really opens up a lot of conversations
[26:42] SPEAKER_01: because we're starting like the flexibility conversations are we revealing how flexible our life is our why are we being curious with I notice that you have a large rock on your bookshelf it looks like you're reading a lot or do you crack the cover on those
[26:58] SPEAKER_01: books right but instead people went to shutting off their video and it was like we have this we're starting to open up the
[27:06] SPEAKER_01: private self of all of us on our team I can't we get curious and learn more about one another which is which you know has a direct and significant impact on collaboration if I know what's important to you or not right
[27:21] SPEAKER_00: absolutely for the record I've read none of these books they're all just styrofoam books for display it's not of its real yeah yeah exactly I can get that I can imagine that
[27:32] SPEAKER_00: so I I want to I'm going to ask this is there so is there anything that we didn't talk about today that you do want to bring up or something that you want to emphasize in our conversation
[27:53] SPEAKER_01: something that I want to emphasize oh well a live is what I'm going to emphasize so whether you're you know whether you're working in a company and you're feeling that you're a little bit dead or you're in a family
[28:09] SPEAKER_01: or a relationship where you're feeling a little bit dead or you are a startup entrepreneur and it isn't the choice that you thought it was going to be
[28:19] SPEAKER_01: change it like take a risk choose to be alive instead of dead that's what I would say choose a liveness I focus on that the other thing that I would focus on is I think this whole idea of how
[28:36] SPEAKER_01: coven has given us the opportunity to shift our paradigms and so there are a lot of companies right now that are going back into sort of this hybrid or you know go back to the office in summer into the office that kind of thing
[28:49] SPEAKER_01: and my fear is that they're going to lose all the goodness that the shift in paradigm of being in lockdown and being online has really offered us
[29:00] SPEAKER_01: and so why not you know again I'm re we are really lucky a Vivo team we had eight years to figure this out and we took our time to figure it out and we made mistakes I realize that people were pushed into that paradigm shift and they didn't have the liberty of time that we had to get to get it figured out
[29:19] SPEAKER_01: but if people just actually step back and say hey you know what I'm not going to push back on this whole virtual and hybrid workplaces and people working at home and having more flexibility and all those things but we actually embrace what that can look like for organization I think the paradigm shifting allows us to widen our portfolio of how we do our professional and our personal life so that would be my message to really look a little bit deeper turn on your cameras
[29:49] SPEAKER_01: and we're going to have conversations and look at your efficiencies because what I know about Vivo team we are one of the most highly efficient organizations because we have the structures in place and we just you know meeting start on time meeting ends on time we've got structures in place to share documents like there's all sorts of technology that's really going to continue to help and it's just going to get better
[30:14] SPEAKER_01: but if you put your feet in the cement and say no I like it the old way yeah you're dying on the vine so there's an aliveness in technology that's what I'm going to say
[30:26] SPEAKER_00: I love that and I think it is incredibly important especially in moments like right now where there are a lot of leaders in organizations and small companies it's not just big companies and individuals who are like how do I get back to doing things
[30:43] SPEAKER_00: the way they were before and they're really stuck on let's get back to the way it was before as opposed exactly what you're saying which is what can we learn to make things better overall do we have does it have do we really like it that way
[31:00] SPEAKER_00: do we really like it that way so I love what you're saying because I think it's very poignant in this moment and thank you for for sharing that.
[31:10] SPEAKER_00: Great thanks.
[31:12] SPEAKER_00: Absolutely and of course thank you for being my guest it has been wonderful to get to chat with you and to get to know you a bit today.
[31:20] SPEAKER_00: You a Vivo team your LinkedIn will be in the show notes for everyone to connect with you but definitely please check out Renee yeah she is amazing the one she's doing is incredible so to so check her out
[31:31] SPEAKER_00: and for everyone listening thanks for listening to Canada's podcast like comment and subscribe to all our channels to get the latest podcast from entrepreneurs across Canada.
