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TRANSCRIPTION WITH SPEAKERS
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[00:00] SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Canada's podcast.
[00:05] SPEAKER_00: Hi, this is Celine Williams hosting for Montereo for Canada's podcast.
[00:10] SPEAKER_00: My guest today is Melanie Chinn, who is the brand and community manager for CIBC Square.
[00:16] SPEAKER_00: Toronto's new international standard of community providing an elevated environment for all to thrive through work, wellness and sustainability.
[00:24] SPEAKER_00: Thank you for joining me today, Melanie.
[00:27] SPEAKER_01: Great to be here, Celine. How are you?
[00:29] SPEAKER_00: I am doing well. How are you?
[00:33] SPEAKER_00: Good. Good.
[00:34] SPEAKER_01: It's a sunny day.
[00:36] SPEAKER_00: Always a bone.
[00:37] SPEAKER_01: I'll sit outside right after this and just suck up the sun.
[00:40] SPEAKER_00: Perfect.
[00:42] SPEAKER_00: So I'm going to, you know, I think that all of our Canadian listeners are familiar with CIBC as an institution.
[00:50] SPEAKER_00: But I'm also guessing many of them like me had not heard of CIBC Square.
[00:55] SPEAKER_00: So can you kind of run us through really quickly what CIBC Square is and what you do there, what your role is?
[01:02] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, for sure. CIBC Square is or will be two three million square foot office towers.
[01:12] SPEAKER_01: Sorry, one is each or 1.5 million square feet allocated downtown Toronto.
[01:17] SPEAKER_01: So if you're driving in Toronto and your bicycle should be greener, you'll see the first tower, which is 81 Bay online online right now.
[01:25] SPEAKER_01: It has the beautiful diamonds out front.
[01:27] SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of photos on Instagram with the sunset hitting it. It's absolutely beautiful.
[01:31] SPEAKER_01: It was designed by Wilkinson Air out of London, England.
[01:36] SPEAKER_01: And it is developed by Ivan Hoki, Virgin Heights.
[01:40] SPEAKER_01: And so CIBC has their name in the name of the building because they are the anchor tenant.
[01:46] SPEAKER_01: So they get naming rights. So it may help create the space and help really shape, you know, the things that we're doing in the space.
[01:55] SPEAKER_01: For example, accessibility is really important to them.
[01:59] SPEAKER_01: So we looked at that in the development of the towers.
[02:02] SPEAKER_01: And so they've been really great partners for us.
[02:04] SPEAKER_01: And so we're happy to have them on the name of the two towers.
[02:09] SPEAKER_00: Very cool. And so tell me a little bit about what makes CIBC Square different from every other tower in downtown Toronto.
[02:23] SPEAKER_01: I would say the architecture is absolutely stunning, but I may be a little biased.
[02:29] SPEAKER_01: But the towers are developed with sustainability wellness and, you know, the human experience in mind.
[02:38] SPEAKER_01: So we are lead platinum, which means that, you know, very sustainable material.
[02:43] SPEAKER_01: We use in the building, the water re usage, you know, is top of the line.
[02:48] SPEAKER_01: We use gray water to water the plants on the property.
[02:52] SPEAKER_01: With a well building, it's actually a certification.
[02:55] SPEAKER_01: There's the well building institute. You might see some commercials on TV right now with like Michael B Jordan and Robert De Nier is talking about well health and safety.
[03:05] SPEAKER_01: They're a leading creditor in commercial real estate where they look at the building, how it's developed and apply certain, you know, credits towards it and can call you like a well building after that.
[03:19] SPEAKER_01: And so for us, we have, you know, we look at our air and how we're bringing air into the building, how much natural light do we have in the building access to green space.
[03:28] SPEAKER_01: The ABC square is going to be home to the first elevated park in Toronto.
[03:33] SPEAKER_01: So it's going to go right over the railroad tracks right by Union station and connect the two towers when the second tower is done.
[03:39] SPEAKER_01: We also have a pretty robust art program because we've seen through studies that art plays a really strong role on employees more out.
[03:49] SPEAKER_01: So we've focused, we've developed a building with all of that in mind.
[03:53] SPEAKER_01: And we've also looked at ways to make it a more active building as well.
[03:58] SPEAKER_01: And we're also wired building so every inch of the property is by fine able to you know with bigger buildings these days a higher up you get the course the cell phone signal gets but we've added boosters.
[04:11] SPEAKER_01: So no matter where you are on property, you should get cell phone service even if you're in no the ground level or the P2 level of the garage, you should always be connected.
[04:20] SPEAKER_01: And which I think is really helpful for us going back to work now to where people don't necessarily want to work at their traditional desks and they want to work from different spaces.
[04:33] SPEAKER_01: And C.I.B.C. Square has been designed with pretty much all of that in mind, you know giving people the options to choose how they work every day to be their most effective selves.
[04:43] SPEAKER_01: So that is you know how we're a little different than everyone else.
[04:48] SPEAKER_00: So I'm curious you mentioned that it was that C.I.B.C. Square is an active building. Can you tell me what that means?
[04:56] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so we have a fitness center on site that is exclusively for our tenants.
[05:02] SPEAKER_01: It is a much lower rate than all the other gyms that you have here in Toronto.
[05:08] SPEAKER_01: Then we also have our park, which the tenants will have direct access to the park will actually be open to the public as well.
[05:18] SPEAKER_01: But we have a or story beautiful staircase on the exterior for building which we encourage people to use the getting their steps in versus you know taking an elevator everywhere.
[05:28] SPEAKER_01: And then we'll have programming in the building for our tenants, you know, that are more active and wellness and mental health wellness, you know, oriented.
[05:38] SPEAKER_01: And so that's the way that we call ourselves an active building.
[05:43] SPEAKER_01: And we also have like working on site and like like facilities with showers.
[05:50] SPEAKER_01: So if you're biking in in the summer, very humid in Toronto, you're going to sweat no matter what.
[05:55] SPEAKER_01: And you want to be nice and fresh for work. You can park your bike. You can go take a shower and then you can be ready for work.
[06:02] SPEAKER_01: Nice and fresh and it's you know, we felt 300 spaces for that.
[06:09] SPEAKER_01: So we're really encouraging an active lifestyle at the property.
[06:11] SPEAKER_01: And because we are connected to the station, we're looking at walkability to we're encouraging people to walk around walk to their meetings.
[06:21] SPEAKER_01: And that we do still have parking on site for those do who do want to drive.
[06:27] SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
[06:29] SPEAKER_01: Got it from facets of how we we be active.
[06:32] SPEAKER_00: Got it.
[06:34] SPEAKER_00: So I am.
[06:37] SPEAKER_00: I'm curious how some of them take a step back.
[06:43] SPEAKER_00: So I think at this point in the never ending pandemic, it is pretty clear that the way that the world works has changed permanently.
[06:53] SPEAKER_00: And I recognize there's a lot of debate, but the most organizations that we're seeing this in the States, especially because they're just further ahead in this in this time period than we are are going hybrid, right.
[07:07] SPEAKER_00: Not everyone is going back to work. Not everyone is staying remote. There's some version of of hybrid, where and whenever possible. And it's a big selling point for workplaces these days.
[07:17] SPEAKER_00: So I'm curious from your perspective and you know what you see the future of the workplace being.
[07:29] SPEAKER_00: You know, whether there's trends that you're seeing coming up, what your what question, you know, what your what real estate requests, whatever it is, what what do you what are you seeing or what are you based on kind of the space that that you specialize in.
[07:44] SPEAKER_00: And we're using the the future of the workplace potentially looking like in the next few years, because obviously who knows in 10 years.
[07:51] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, for sure.
[07:54] SPEAKER_01: It's it's great that you asked that because an article came out in the Toronto star a few days ago with data on that and what people are wanting to see throughout Canada.
[08:04] SPEAKER_01: And 41% of people said that they wanted a hybrid workspace.
[08:11] SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, we're seeing our tenants, you know, listen to that and try to accommodate for that.
[08:19] SPEAKER_01: But I'm a little I'm a little bit more of the conservative. I think more people will go back to work on a regular basis than others.
[08:27] SPEAKER_01: I look at it kind of like that unlimited vacation policy, you know, that came in a few years where people like Netflix and LinkedIn tried to to test that pilot that and you know see what would come up a we gave employees and limited vacation time and they actually saw people use it less use less vacation time than more.
[08:48] SPEAKER_01: And so I think what people really want is a sense of autonomy and the ability to choose and really shape their lives.
[08:58] SPEAKER_01: I think we will see more people trend to going into the office than at home, probably at first, too, because we've been stuck at home for so long.
[09:07] SPEAKER_01: We want to change the pace we want to connect with our co-workers.
[09:09] SPEAKER_01: And we will see like, you know, maybe a trend a little bit more in the wintertime to staying at home because no one wants to really commute, but then it will probably balance out after that.
[09:20] SPEAKER_01: And we might see numbers that we saw we pandemic. And this is just my, you know, assumption based on human behavior and trends that we've seen in the past.
[09:29] SPEAKER_01: But for our tenants, you know, the ways that they're adapting, they're just looking at.
[09:35] SPEAKER_01: De-densification. So before the pandemic, there was this.
[09:40] SPEAKER_01: I'm trying towards densifying space and making it super efficient.
[09:45] SPEAKER_01: I think now that we're seeing companies de-densifying giving their employees a flexibility to work in different spaces, but within the office space.
[09:56] SPEAKER_01: So are they assigned to a particular desk, not, not anymore.
[10:01] SPEAKER_01: Can they come in and book a desk if they want? Yes. But can they go work from an armchair in the lounge area? Probably, or, you know, for us at CIBC Square, we have our tenant lounge.
[10:13] SPEAKER_01: If they want to come work from there, where it's, you know, farm style tables, a lot more of an opportunity to co work and connect with other people.
[10:22] SPEAKER_01: I do think we'll see people trend to more of that that work style because it does offer them the ability to connect with others, which we've all been missing so much these past few days, a few years, a few months.
[10:36] SPEAKER_01: Sorry.
[10:38] SPEAKER_01: The sense of time, what is even.
[10:40] SPEAKER_01: Totally gone. I get it.
[10:43] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but I do think that our tenants see the value in having a workspace in an office, essential office, to build community collaboration and connection.
[10:55] SPEAKER_01: I think that it's also a really great way for a company to express their brand to.
[11:02] SPEAKER_01: And so we can see see that as an important factor in a company in business building to because that creates loyalty, the sense of community.
[11:11] SPEAKER_01: And when you have that loyalty sense of community, less likely, it reduces turnover. Right. And so I think that's really important.
[11:20] SPEAKER_01: And I think that this pandemic has allowed our, you know, leaders to take a take a pause and take a step back and say like, what is this type of culture that I want to create and how do I want to support my employees.
[11:35] SPEAKER_01: And then they've been able to re-shape their spaces to reflect that and rethink what the office means to them.
[11:43] SPEAKER_01: So I think it's been a silver lining of this entire thing. We're probably going to see employers look at, you know, the individual employee and what they want a lot more now and what makes sense to them because they want their people back in the office.
[12:01] SPEAKER_01: So they need to understand why, why are they hesitant to come back into the office and listen to those things.
[12:06] SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, if an employee didn't like something before they want to see a change in their space is probably the time within reason to share that and give that feedback because it is a new normal that we're all creating.
[12:20] SPEAKER_01: And, you know, we can be a part of the change or we can just sit back and just be listen to it and just complain.
[12:28] SPEAKER_01: You know, so it's a really interesting time, I think, for tenants or my or employers, but I call them tenants and employees.
[12:39] SPEAKER_00: So what are what are you hearing or seeing that that employers or tenants are looking for like what are the most important things that they're looking for considering right now.
[12:54] SPEAKER_01: I think top of mind, it is, you know, the health and wellness aspect of the building, right, what is, what is the HBAHBAC system, what are the filters that are going into the building, how many touch points are there for me to get from the front door to my desk.
[13:14] SPEAKER_01: We're seeing, I think you've seen if you walk downtown a lot more of the wave sensors for the doors and, you know, elevator buttons, we don't really want to touch those are going to more touchless.
[13:27] SPEAKER_01: CBC Square has actually a really unique destination dispatch system which you scan your card and it can be pre loaded to your floor.
[13:38] SPEAKER_01: So you scan it and it tells you which elevator bank to go to see you're not actually touching anything at all, which is really cool and it's really helpful in this, you know, return to work, what is safe, what is not environment.
[13:49] SPEAKER_01: I think that is one of the biggest things that we're seeing the focus on health health and wellness, clean air access to natural light and what we're doing at the property level to make everyone feel safe.
[14:04] SPEAKER_01: So how often are we cleaning, what are the policies and procedures we have in place if someone does test positive.
[14:11] SPEAKER_01: And so just making our tenants feel assured that they're in a safe space and it's okay to come to work and then listening to some of their concerns and trying to understand how we help them feel more comfortable is really an area of focus for tenants as tenants of our building and then as employers focusing for their looking at their employees.
[14:38] SPEAKER_00: So, and I think a lot of that makes sense, right, like coming off a pan, like the pandemic is over, having a step in the never ending pandemic, you know, I think a lot of that makes sense as as their immediate concerns right now.
[14:55] SPEAKER_00: Right, like that is, you know, keeping things clean and being aware of so, you know, how far we are from people and touchless, like 100% make sense.
[15:07] SPEAKER_00: What do you think in, so I'm a firm believer that the things that matter now are pretty much irrelevant in three to five years at the rate of change that we are going through at this point in time because they're either they either become irrelevant in the sense that they either don't matter any more.
[15:24] SPEAKER_00: Because things have changed or they just become so part of this is how we do things that they're irrelevant because they're not something we think consciously about right this is just the default.
[15:33] SPEAKER_00: So in, you know, three to five years, do you have it because I, you know, we always chat before these interviews our guests know that our audience knows that and so you, you know, you were saying that this building was really designed with that sort of five year vision, like really future focus at the time.
[15:52] SPEAKER_00: So at this point, you know, five years down the road, what do you think will matter then, like what's the next step of the future of the workplace.
[16:02] SPEAKER_01: That is a really great, great question.
[16:05] SPEAKER_01: I really think that the trend that we're seeing is towards hospitality and experiences.
[16:14] SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, with, you know, employees have the ability to choose to come into work with this hybrid work, work style, if that continues to stay.
[16:28] SPEAKER_01: What are we doing at the property level to make, to make people want to come in and how do we elevate that what, you know, they're going to weigh is it worth the commute and safe they moved out to the suburbs during the pandemic.
[16:42] SPEAKER_01: Like why am I going to trek in that's different than me saying at home, so there are no way the benefits of coming in or not.
[16:49] SPEAKER_01: So we at the property level have to think of ways to make it appealing for people to come in the outside of their office space.
[16:57] SPEAKER_01: And so the company can do, you know, what they can, but as the landlord and the property, we want to help our tenants get their employees back to the office.
[17:06] SPEAKER_01: And so what are we going to do to grade that draw. And so it's going to look at hospitality and alleviating points of friction and people's lives. So that when they do come into the office, you know, it's really great.
[17:19] SPEAKER_01: They can speak to our concierge that we actually have it C.I.B.C. Square and like, hey, I need a reservation this day at this place. Can you help me out with that?
[17:29] SPEAKER_01: Where they probably can't get that at home, right? Or I'm running to a meeting. Do you happen to have some water?
[17:36] SPEAKER_01: And then, you know, our concierge gives gives them a ball of water to take with them or, you know, you know, a human connection.
[17:43] SPEAKER_01: You can't get that at home. And you can probably learn a lot through these connections and then the networking to.
[17:51] SPEAKER_01: So that's from the hospitality standpoint. That's just one example, I think, but then through the experience standpoint, you know, we've lost 18 months of networking and networking is so crucial to business and so creating experiences that allow people to create connection and network to.
[18:08] SPEAKER_01: And to make up for that lost time is going to be really important. So in five years, I think that people have gotten used to experiences and they're now going to think a bit, you know, connect and with their building as something that's natural to them.
[18:22] SPEAKER_01: And so for me, and what I do in the community management area is how do I elevate those experiences and how do they add value to my community members lives.
[18:32] SPEAKER_01: And then how does it help and I, sorry, I call community members, my general population of my building.
[18:39] SPEAKER_01: But then how does that help my tenants to does that help bring their brand purpose to life. So if I have a tenant that's really into, you know, the building is sustainable. I'm just going to use this as an example. If I have a tenant that's really into, you know, tree planting.
[18:58] SPEAKER_01: I'm not going to do like an axe or a wood chopping event, right. I'm going to do something that heroes their values and so that they can express it in a different way. And so I think that's what we'll see more of more of experiential activations happening within a tenant space and more of brand expressions for tenants and properties as well.
[19:29] SPEAKER_00: Cool.
[19:32] SPEAKER_00: So I'm going to, as we wrap this up, I'm going to ask the question I always ask, which is, is there anything that we didn't talk about or didn't get into that you want to mention or that you want to emphasize that you mentioned, because we covered a lot of different sort of pieces of the future of the workplace and and what it could look like and what it is, you know, where it's at right now.
[19:53] SPEAKER_00: So is there anything you want to emphasize or that we didn't get into that you want to talk about?
[19:59] SPEAKER_01: I would talked about so much.
[20:04] SPEAKER_01: I think my last words would be, do you think that the office is a great space for community building and culture and for businesses to really get to know, give them a platform to get to know their employees and create those connections.
[20:23] SPEAKER_01: And so I'm excited to see where it's heading in the future and how we pivot, but I do think that the office is here to stay.
[20:33] SPEAKER_01: It might be in a different format and how we use it might be slightly different, but I do think that is, is a key to a business and building and growing.
[20:43] SPEAKER_00: Got it. Well, thank you Melanie for chatting with me about this today. I appreciate your time very much.
[20:49] SPEAKER_00: It was a super interesting conversation. I know for those of us who are thinking about what the future of the workspace will look like. This will be super relevant. So thank you for your time.
[20:59] SPEAKER_01: Awesome. Thank you for having me.
[21:01] SPEAKER_00: And to the audience, thanks for listening to Canada's podcast, like comment and subscribe to all our channels to get the latest podcasts from entrepreneurs across Canada.
