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[00:00] SPEAKER_02: Welcome to Canada's podcast.
[00:06] SPEAKER_02: So Mark, welcome to Canada's podcast.
[00:10] SPEAKER_02: Great to meet you.
[00:12] SPEAKER_02: We were earlier discussing how we were maybe once neighbours about 20 years ago.
[00:18] SPEAKER_02: When you were starting out in Liberty area and I was moving out of the Liberty area.
[00:23] SPEAKER_02: But you know, why don't you guys just sort of want to do the other?
[00:27] SPEAKER_02: Give us a little bit of insights on your entrepreneurial journey,
[00:31] SPEAKER_02: how you stumbled into entrepreneurship and where it's taking you.
[00:36] SPEAKER_02: I feel like.
[00:38] SPEAKER_00: Great. Thanks Philip. Maybe I'll jump in first and thanks again for having us on today.
[00:43] SPEAKER_00: It's great to connect with you.
[00:46] SPEAKER_00: You know, I think what's really exciting for Matt and I as we look back at the journey of marble media,
[00:50] SPEAKER_00: which started now 20 years ago,
[00:52] SPEAKER_00: is that it's rooted in a solid friendship, right?
[00:56] SPEAKER_00: That Tim and I found when we actually went to Ryerson University and studied in the radio and television arts program.
[01:03] SPEAKER_00: And I'll just say what was interesting about kind of coming together those, you know, 20 years.
[01:06] SPEAKER_00: Well, but a little bit earlier than that about, you know, 25 almost 30 years ago now.
[01:11] SPEAKER_00: But who's counting? Who's counting the great hairs?
[01:14] SPEAKER_00: You know, kind of coming together and kind of finding that shared passion from day one,
[01:18] SPEAKER_00: you know, of a friendship and a passion for the media business.
[01:22] SPEAKER_00: And through that program and what was interesting, we both came from very different places and moved to Toronto for the first time to for university.
[01:30] SPEAKER_00: My background, I grew up in just outside of St. John, New Brunswick.
[01:34] SPEAKER_00: You know, and I think Matt and I both share clearly an entrepreneurial bug.
[01:37] SPEAKER_00: My entrepreneurial bug started really young, I know in terms of, you know, painting houses and working in my neighborhood to, you know, run a small business to do that to then launching a DJ company.
[01:48] SPEAKER_00: And then we called Shake Down Sounds, which we expanded to Shake Down Sounds and lights when we raised a bit more profile in the industry and in New Brunswick.
[01:56] SPEAKER_00: You know, to, you know, everything from school radio station, newspaper, summer camp, all of those type of things.
[02:02] SPEAKER_00: Just kind of seeing an opportunity, right and looking at at the slate and looking what was out there and saying, you know, what's missing, you know, and how could I bring a skill, a passion to kind of, you know, both identify an opportunity and really launch some of that.
[02:18] SPEAKER_00: And then we got something right and take a risk, right and I think that I think for both of us that came at a really young age and I'm thankful for that because that was again part of my entrepreneurial journey that started really early that carried with me.
[02:29] SPEAKER_00: So that, you know, again, it's, you know, but having that drive and then having that passion, which then happened again when, like I said, when flash forward moving to Toronto.
[02:40] SPEAKER_00: And, you know, meeting Matt while we were in university working on projects, finding that, you know, shared passion and shared vision to think big to think, you know, yes, this, this is the box, but how do you go and do that we did a massive project in our final year, a big group project that we were both on the leadership team for where we did a big live event, we broadcast on two networks, we raised a whole bunch of money.
[03:02] SPEAKER_00: And you really just saw the potential that that experience had to kind of open the door that this could really be, you know, a dynamic powerhouse of being able to work together.
[03:12] SPEAKER_00: And of course, we both went off and worked for other companies for a few years after university, we kept doing side projects and talking about what it could be and eventually and it was, you know, again, the end of 2000 beginning of 2001 where we both quit our day jobs took that leap, you know, and started on that that journey of our own to build, to build more money.
[03:32] SPEAKER_00: And so I think again, I would say it's a deep, a deep passion for the industry, it's a friendship and it's that that entrepreneurial curse of seeing an opportunity and when we started marble, it was really about, you know, how can we look at again, this is 2001.
[03:48] SPEAKER_00: So how do we look at the new way of of telling stories that guess it would be linear content and it would be television that's still an important driver and not going away.
[03:56] SPEAKER_00: But how could we leverage interactive technologies, how could we start to build games and apps, how could we stream content on a mobile device, which, you know, was unheard of back then, but we did a prototype back in 2003, showing what that would look like.
[04:11] SPEAKER_00: And so those things were the foundations of our company of just kind of showing to the industry that we thought differently and that we could think differently and imagine, you know, what the future of entertainment experiences could be improved to him and I that we could start to build something that we could do.
[04:26] SPEAKER_00: And so that was going to be really unique and ultimately have fun creating and building a company together.
[04:32] SPEAKER_02: So Matt, what about your story, how do you know, some of it's parallel, I'm sure, but you come from different areas, different backgrounds, so we ingested to know yours.
[04:42] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there's certainly certainly a lot of parallels as Mark was describing. I'm an only child, it came from a very small town, a group in an a wooded acreage out in the country.
[04:54] SPEAKER_01: So quite isolated in many ways, and I found a lot of very close with my parents as an only child, but found a lot of creativity through play.
[05:03] SPEAKER_01: And had sort of a fake radio station that I would do with friends whenever they would come over.
[05:09] SPEAKER_01: And at an early age like Mark had that entrepreneurial spirit of all through high school, only at one time did I work for another company got fired after a few weeks because I wasn't doing the paperwork properly.
[05:21] SPEAKER_01: I was heavily administrative and that wasn't something at the time that I was good at.
[05:26] SPEAKER_01: I just tapped into things that I really felt like I was great at. So ran a drama camp on my own, made a lot of money the following summer doing that.
[05:34] SPEAKER_01: I ended up doing video production for the local lawyers, had an edit suite and you know set up in my bedroom.
[05:40] SPEAKER_01: So just you know at a very early age like Mark just knew that I wanted to be control my own destiny through through storytelling.
[05:51] SPEAKER_01: So since grade 10, I knew I wanted to make television shows did a lot of research like Mark then you know decide wanted to go to school of radio and television arts at Ryerson.
[06:00] SPEAKER_01: And I agree with Mark it's really that friendship. You know and that's something that both unique to never really imagined that is being too very strong will creative individuals coming from sort of similar background small towns.
[06:13] SPEAKER_01: Coming to the big city looking for promise and excitement of the next chapter in our lives, but then finding a way where one and one actually made three or four and we were so much stronger as a team because of it and we continue to be that way today 20 years later.
[06:29] SPEAKER_01: It's had its ups and downs like any relationship. I mean we've been together now longer than a lot of marriages last.
[06:36] SPEAKER_01: And with a lot more complex situations a lot you know when you're dealing with money a lot of money.
[06:43] SPEAKER_01: And sometimes a lot of money going in the wrong direction.
[06:46] SPEAKER_01: And so I think through that though we've really used the fundamentals of this relationship, trust, respect, communication and that's where the strength goes it's what you need in any healthy relationship and one you really need in a partnership.
[07:00] SPEAKER_01: One that's 50 50 because there's no mediator in all of this it's only he and I that have to work through any problems we may have together and I think we've always been able to find common ground eerie actually sometimes how often we see see eye to eye on things and we don't we find ways to work it out.
[07:20] SPEAKER_01: And we're smarter and stronger as a company because we've brought those different perspectives and we've found ways to find a shared vision for that as much as right.
[07:30] SPEAKER_02: So you mentioned the money side of it and I mean you know media is a big satter and certainly in in in the GT GTHA and you know pretty big across across Canada as well.
[07:48] SPEAKER_02: You know on the money front you know just for the other people that maybe just starting you know 20 imagine 20 you guys 20 years ago.
[07:59] SPEAKER_02: How does it how does it kind of what kind of advice can you offer in terms of you know being able to execute those what item BFI's which you know the big fucking ideas.
[08:17] SPEAKER_02: And that's the you know that you guys have done basically so maybe you can kind of give some give some insights on on how you get to play the game basically on in the media side.
[08:32] SPEAKER_00: Yeah well I think absolutely I think the thing that we learned really early on and it's a simple business practice but is really to surround ourselves with people that are smarter than us in certain areas.
[08:44] SPEAKER_00: And I would say I mean the great thing about the media industry in Canada is that there are a lot of people who have gone down this road before there's a lot who have experience.
[08:52] SPEAKER_00: You know there's both a you know freelance pool of people that's incredibly strong in this industry because it's such a freelance based business as well as those who have gone on to start their own company and you know and and then are available for consultation and so on.
[09:08] SPEAKER_00: And I think that that's the thing that we learned early on that in terms of as we were thinking about you know budgeting you know for a big project well you know really going out there and finding people who had done it before.
[09:19] SPEAKER_00: Because I think you have to be really careful not to sell yourself short in terms of what some of these things are going to take.
[09:25] SPEAKER_00: Because you know again we all have to dream really big everybody wants a big idea every buyer wants big idea and more so now than ever but you really need to make sure you don't under sell yourself so you know finding just as an example green a great line producers who can do a budget you know for what that's going to cause you know consulting with with them to look at you know union and guild arrangements and what you know what those are going to be.
[09:49] SPEAKER_00: Because this industry you know it keeps the lawyers in the accountants very busy and you need those people on your side really early on and solid advisors because you know you have to be careful there's a lot of money at stake to Matt's point from before there's a lot of chances that you could lose your shirt really easily.
[10:06] SPEAKER_00: And you have to be careful not to or commit so having those you know advisors around you.
[10:12] SPEAKER_00: You know kind of allows you to take the big leaps right and allows you to try and do things again that that may be just outside of your grasp right and at.
[10:20] SPEAKER_00: At the same point I mean I think also not being afraid to dream big and to have those big ideas so one of our first projects was actually a website so you know we hear we're launching a TV company our first project is a website and this is back in 2002 right for deaf children so it's all in American sign language which we then spun off into a TV series so you can imagine going to a broadcast your pitching.
[10:42] SPEAKER_00: So we're launching that idea we want to do a website in a web you know no one's making a web series in 2002 that we were crazy but again we had to reach right and we said and we're also going to build a website with these tools that will do x y and z and they kind of looked at us like we were speaking a different language.
[10:56] SPEAKER_00: So again we believe we had the conviction that we could do it you know we were out there meeting people and finding the networks of people that could help us pull that off and it through partnerships and you know expanding that network and it's kind of what's required to have the big ideas is that you realize like nobody in the media industry does it on their own so it really is about surrounding yourself with smart people that can help elevate your idea and at the same point also protect you as you start to think about how to put together you know budgets and you know you can't do that.
[11:26] SPEAKER_00: It's financing deal structure and all of that because it does take some understanding of the framework.
[11:34] SPEAKER_02: Yeah okay man just let's throw you another question which is really kind of an interesting one.
[11:41] SPEAKER_02: If you can go back in time to when you were beginning what advice would you give yourself you know 20 years, 22 years earlier kind of thing?
[11:53] SPEAKER_02: What advice would you give yourself if you if you don't we know them kind of thing.
[11:58] SPEAKER_01: It's an excellent question to ask oneself obviously so much in life is 2020 hindsight you know and that's kind of the beauty of I guess of I don't know of a bean naive when you're in your early 20s you you don't know what you don't know and that's probably a good thing because I think if you knew too much you probably just stop.
[12:21] SPEAKER_01: The risk is too great you know and that's true for so many entrepreneurs like you have to look past the risk and I you know I think of a lot of people that mark and I know professionally in the world who are not entrepreneurs that maybe work on the buyer's side for broadcasters and we have so much respect are so smart.
[12:40] SPEAKER_01: We think wow they're just so much smarter than us and then you have a conversation when you realize hope there's something different between us and them and that is that we're willing to take risk and they are not and they are the first ones to admit that and you know like they're they're spending millions of dollars hopefully on our shows but it's not really their money and every dollar the mark and I spend on shows it's our money and so we have to make sure that it's spent in the right way and if we lose that money that money.
[13:10] SPEAKER_01: Money is lost and there is no one else we can go to to solve that problem and then he and I so the risk is real and but it's also what drives us it doesn't scare Mark and I and my wife actually she has an MBA so classic business person very very smart I've learned so much from her and you say about what you know what have you kind of learned if you could look back I wish I had taken more business courses probably early on just to have some more foundational thinking about how to structure.
[13:40] SPEAKER_01: Businesses and and surround yourself with people but it's also creative business and it's pretty fickle and at the end of the day I'm I'm you know I think we use good intuition when we need to on the bright partnerships that we needed to and so I don't I don't regret a lot of those decisions that we made but anyway when I talked my wife about it and she's like I can't believe the amount of risk that you're kind of you a marker willing to take on a day to day basis and I think that's what separates entrepreneurs from a lot of other people.
[14:09] SPEAKER_01: But you know how much of that do I wish I had known 20 years from just not sure how much of that I would want to know anyway to be honest probably some foundational things in business that would have been good there was I went up one business course at that riris and but so there would have been some other things would have been within nice to have known back then.
[14:29] SPEAKER_01: But ultimately I think we trusted our intuition when we needed to and intuition is also a very important quality in entrepreneur then you have to listen to that it's really important.
[14:39] SPEAKER_02: What's the best piece of advice is on for both of you that you've received you know like that kind of mentorship thing you know you've obviously bumped into others that have passed on knowledge with and it's that those deep knowledge the one that you know you never forget it's kind of in the background all the time I mean like you both answer this one.
[15:04] SPEAKER_02: I think it's a real important one for people that that kind of starting on the journey kind of thing.
[15:12] SPEAKER_00: I'm curious what yours would be my mind would be the one that comes to mind right away when you ask that question Philip about six or eight years and again did running the company we were awarded an award from Ryerson University.
[15:26] SPEAKER_00: Well, these are sharp outstanding outstanding recent graduate award and so again is it a sharp Ryerson graduate went on to obviously found the four seasons hotel chain.
[15:38] SPEAKER_00: So it's a huge honor for Matt Knight to receive the award and part of it we had a chance to go and spend time with him which was which was amazing right to actually go to his office at the four season and sit down with him and meet some of his team and have a conversation.
[15:52] SPEAKER_00: And there were a few things you know that he said that day that really stuck with me because I think as you know he talked about what it was like building four seasons right and and which a funny enough you started just around the corner from Ryerson with his first hotel.
[16:05] SPEAKER_00: You know but he talked a lot about you know kind of the dynamics of building a team and sort of who who was going to be with you at each different stage of the company so that was one of actually the hardest things for him was that you start the company was sort of one set of people.
[16:18] SPEAKER_00: And as you grow and build you need to have other people around you so talk about other advisors other specials in different areas and that's difficult because sometimes you know you have certain people who are there for part of the journey when you get to that next phase like you know companies kind of grow in phases.
[16:33] SPEAKER_00: And then you get to that next phase be it you know you're expanding in a different way or you need different skill sets.
[16:38] SPEAKER_00: Those people that were on for that part of the journey may not be on for the next part of the journey and that's difficult right because of course those are people that have helped you get to that level by the is that there are certain people that kind of are there for one phase.
[16:48] SPEAKER_00: And they come on and then you know they they accidents and others come on because they bring a different skill set.
[16:54] SPEAKER_00: And then tied in with that he said you know with with that and with all of your decisions as you make moving forward you know two things he says you know in guide as a guiding principle is to be fair but firm right so fair as as a good listener and fair you know in terms of hearing others perspectives.
[17:12] SPEAKER_00: But to also make decisions right and be firm and clear in your convictions and and and firming in your decisions to provide clarity for your team because you can't waffle you have to be you know as leaders of the organization you have to be clear in the direction.
[17:27] SPEAKER_00: Take as much advice as possible but make a clear decision and and move forward and to me those words really stuck with me you know as we've we continue to build and grow the company.
[17:38] SPEAKER_01: Matt you would say the same or do you have another one the so yeah mine is not nearly as interesting but I totally agree with Mark I mean it's such it was such a powerful comment from is it or sharp and and so true so insightful and.
[17:55] SPEAKER_01: It was a great deal did it did a session with him and yeah so I can appreciate that yeah and so many people since then like I think of Netflix they talk about how important is to think of your company as a team.
[18:08] SPEAKER_01: Not as a family and you think oh well what what's the difference it's like well it's actually quite a bit of difference because the family is with you for life and the team team isn't you trade people you move people and that's sort of that dynamic.
[18:20] SPEAKER_01: That marks describing that people that you're with the journey in that first chapter may not be with you for other chapters and it's a living breathing organism my mind is very simple and that is patch below.
[18:36] SPEAKER_01: It's so boring it's so boring but it's so important and I guess you know we've come to see here that from a few CEOs that we really respect in our industry how you really always get to keep your eye on that.
[18:48] SPEAKER_01: That's a very bad deal because you can ultimately have really profitable years but it doesn't matter if you can't pay for everything next week right so you know you always have to kind of keep and I think that's true for so many industries and our industries a complicated one because it's not the cash isn't always there in the till you're often having to reinvest money into your development slate.
[19:13] SPEAKER_01: So the timing of projects we don't do service work we do a lot of you know shows that require different partners and government financing which means there's a lot of delay on when the money comes in.
[19:25] SPEAKER_01: So we're spending money but we're getting that money back two years later and so it's it's very complicated from an accounting point of view and from cash point of view and we have a really solid relationship with a bank with HSBC which has been integral to our success.
[19:42] SPEAKER_02: What are you guys most excited about in your sector business sector at the moment?
[19:51] SPEAKER_00: I think it's an exciting time in the content sector because again every week we see a new streaming platform launching and we read the stats about audiences consuming more and more content I mean the pandemic has been a challenge for a lot of people in a lot of industries for sure but I think the one thing we can say about the content industry is that audiences during the pandemic have consumed.
[20:10] SPEAKER_00: A lot of content and we'll continue to viewing habits have changed families have come together to watch content together because we're all at home but we're not traveling we're we're here and so I think all of those things for our industry are actually very positive because it means there are more opportunities to create and tell stories.
[20:27] SPEAKER_00: There are more platforms looking to engage in content and I think especially in hearing Canada I mean a pandemic aside the the industry is really flourishing because again use look at all of these streaming services.
[20:40] SPEAKER_00: We're not in support of all of those who continue to want to invest in Canada. Why because we've got great talent. Now I think great ideas we've got great great producers right across the country that have a ton of what's fun a ton of great ideas and are very ingenious of how they do that.
[20:52] SPEAKER_00: We've got a government who supports our industry in and sees the value both in domestic production as well as exporting that that content around the world.
[21:02] SPEAKER_00: And I think there is, it's definitely shifting and changing in terms of the role of the
[21:06] SPEAKER_00: broadcasters versus the streamers and the system and regulatory and all of that stuff.
[21:10] SPEAKER_00: So with, like anything, it's going through a massive revolution on the regulatory side
[21:15] SPEAKER_00: and all of that.
[21:16] SPEAKER_00: But I think there's disruption and then there's real opportunity again for, as Matt pointed
[21:22] SPEAKER_00: out, I mean, we're storytellers.
[21:23] SPEAKER_00: So the idea to have more platforms that we can tell stories and share these stories with,
[21:27] SPEAKER_00: I think it's an exciting time.
[21:31] Speaker UNKNOWN: Matt?
[21:32] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I absolutely agree with Mark.
[21:34] SPEAKER_01: It's very disruptive.
[21:37] SPEAKER_01: And, you know, which I think is always a challenge for any industry that's going through a digital
[21:42] SPEAKER_01: disruption, but hey, we're not the first to experience that.
[21:46] SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of other industries that had to reinvent themselves and our industry is
[21:50] SPEAKER_01: currently doing that.
[21:51] SPEAKER_01: But with that reinvention, we want to make sure we're riding that wave and we have been
[21:56] SPEAKER_01: with multiple Netflix shows, a lot of American shows that we're doing with our Canadian partners.
[22:02] SPEAKER_01: So we're finding those opportunities on how to think of content differently and how to
[22:07] SPEAKER_01: put the business model of it together as well.
[22:11] SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I think we find it to be in a very exciting time.
[22:15] SPEAKER_01: I think the big thing, what we've come to realize after now doing this for 20 years, there's
[22:18] SPEAKER_01: always something.
[22:19] SPEAKER_01: There's always something in the industry to be worried about.
[22:22] SPEAKER_01: You know, they think of the Canadian media industry.
[22:25] SPEAKER_01: It's evolved a lot in 20 years and it had its A-Day and then it didn't and then it did
[22:30] SPEAKER_01: again and then didn't.
[22:31] SPEAKER_01: And now it's sort of on a downward cycle a little bit again, but it'll research and resurface
[22:35] SPEAKER_01: and it'll be something new and different.
[22:38] SPEAKER_01: Stories, I mean, it's at the DNA of who we are as human beings.
[22:42] SPEAKER_01: We've been telling stories for hundreds of thousands of as long as we've been around as
[22:46] SPEAKER_01: almost sapien sapien.
[22:48] SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I think, you know, we should just be confident that TV and storytelling will
[22:54] SPEAKER_01: always be there in some form.
[22:56] SPEAKER_01: There'll be an opportunity as a storyteller to create something for audiences.
[23:02] SPEAKER_02: So just a couple of fun things and we'll have to kind of call it quits.
[23:08] SPEAKER_02: Each of you, if you had the big one word to describe yourself, what would it be and why?
[23:15] SPEAKER_03: Oh, I've never been asked that question.
[23:17] SPEAKER_03: That's a great question.
[23:25] SPEAKER_03: Wow.
[23:28] SPEAKER_01: Matt, you got anything in mind?
[23:30] SPEAKER_01: Any brand?
[23:31] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, maybe Mark and I should be doing them for each other.
[23:34] SPEAKER_01: No, yeah.
[23:37] SPEAKER_01: I think it's a really tough question.
[23:40] SPEAKER_01: It's a very good question to ask.
[23:41] SPEAKER_01: I think they're, I've been told and I can relate to being pensive and I see it in one
[23:49] SPEAKER_01: of my two sons and I think he gets that quality for me.
[23:54] SPEAKER_01: And part of it is being kind of lost in my own thoughts in my own head.
[23:58] SPEAKER_01: Part of it is an extension of being an introvert, morally introvert side or the extroverted
[24:03] SPEAKER_01: side.
[24:04] SPEAKER_01: And it's just about sort of, you know, by being pensive, you're sort of your processing,
[24:09] SPEAKER_01: your thinking and your taking information in and, and, and, putting it in a different
[24:14] SPEAKER_01: way.
[24:14] SPEAKER_01: And I think that's part of what makes me strategic as well.
[24:19] SPEAKER_00: Huh?
[24:20] SPEAKER_00: I was going to say optimistic.
[24:23] SPEAKER_00: You know, I think about, I look, look at the camera, so I go, go, go, go, go,
[24:26] SPEAKER_00: and the frog sitting behind me, right?
[24:28] SPEAKER_00: Who to me was a, the eternal optimist and things were always going crazy on the Muppet
[24:31] SPEAKER_00: Show.
[24:32] SPEAKER_00: And to me, that's a, I, you know, I feel that, that's something that I've always been,
[24:37] SPEAKER_00: right?
[24:38] SPEAKER_00: And I think that's something that I, you know, got from my parents as well too.
[24:42] SPEAKER_00: And, and, you know, just, to me, I think that optimism to try and, you know, see the,
[24:46] SPEAKER_00: the glass half full, you know, that when you're on that roller coaster, you know, and you're
[24:51] SPEAKER_00: going down, you know, the good thing is that that roller coaster is going to come back
[24:53] SPEAKER_00: up again, right?
[24:54] SPEAKER_00: So that, that downward is, is going to come back up.
[24:57] SPEAKER_00: And just knowing that you got to hold on tight and kind of get there.
[24:59] SPEAKER_00: So, and it's hard.
[25:01] SPEAKER_00: Sometimes I find it, it is difficult in the industry that's, you know, again, it's going
[25:04] SPEAKER_00: through so much change to always, you know, keep that core optimism.
[25:08] SPEAKER_00: But I think it's something that, you know, I've, I've, you know, always had.
[25:13] SPEAKER_00: And I think it's, you know, it's important to, you know, find a balance.
[25:16] SPEAKER_00: And I think as Matt's describing him, that's why him and I have worked so well together
[25:19] SPEAKER_00: because I know at his core, he has optimism as well.
[25:21] SPEAKER_00: But that, you know, that pragmatism of kind of analyzing helps me so that I don't, you
[25:26] SPEAKER_00: know, that optimism doesn't verge on naivete.
[25:29] SPEAKER_00: It actually verges on a bit of realism to actually come to that center pendulum.
[25:32] SPEAKER_00: And I think that's why again, if we look at how well we work together, it's making sure
[25:36] SPEAKER_00: that there's some, you know, critical analysis that goes with the optimism.
[25:40] SPEAKER_00: But at the same point has that, you know, positive spirit that, you know, the rain clouds
[25:46] SPEAKER_00: will go away and that there is light at the end of the tunnel and, you know, seeing through
[25:50] SPEAKER_00: to the future.
[25:51] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and just just one final question, you know, for both of you, you know, after 20 years
[25:57] SPEAKER_02: and business together.
[26:01] SPEAKER_02: You know, what's the best thing about being an entrepreneur from each of your perspectives?
[26:10] SPEAKER_03: Hmm.
[26:12] SPEAKER_00: No, I mean, I think it's ultimately to be able to write your own chapter, right?
[26:16] SPEAKER_00: And so that you, you actually have that opportunity each and every day.
[26:20] SPEAKER_00: You get a clean page and you can write that chapter of your book of what you want to
[26:25] SPEAKER_00: do, right?
[26:26] SPEAKER_00: And so it's daunting because some days you start from scratch and, you know, some days
[26:32] SPEAKER_00: you've got a ton of problems and that, that to do list is not a fun list of things.
[26:36] SPEAKER_00: But at the same point, you write it when you're in charge of it and you can actually control
[26:41] SPEAKER_00: it.
[26:41] SPEAKER_00: And that lets you have some control so that if you want to, you know, stop working at
[26:46] SPEAKER_00: 330 so you can go hang out with your kids, you can do it.
[26:50] SPEAKER_00: No one's going to question and you can set your own priorities and that's really important
[26:55] SPEAKER_00: to be able to do that and, you know, find that balance.
[26:59] SPEAKER_00: But, you know, I think as we think about that and making our own decisions and being in control
[27:04] SPEAKER_00: of our own destiny, it's scary for sure, but at the same point it's so rewarding because
[27:09] SPEAKER_00: you can look back as we're doing today and talking about the past 20 years, look forward
[27:13] SPEAKER_00: to the next 20 years and know that you're ultimately in control of what you're doing.
[27:18] SPEAKER_02: Matt, what about your perspective on that?
[27:21] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I agree with Mark.
[27:22] SPEAKER_01: I mean, there's such a rich, a personal fulfillment and richness in being able to do what you
[27:31] SPEAKER_01: want to do for a living.
[27:33] SPEAKER_01: It's almost something you can't quite articulate to someone unless they've gone through it with
[27:36] SPEAKER_01: themselves because all of that other stuff that shouldn't make sense on paper, how much
[27:42] SPEAKER_01: risk, how stressful it can be, all of that.
[27:44] SPEAKER_01: It's just not, it's not even in, you don't even see it.
[27:47] SPEAKER_01: It doesn't matter because the fulfillment is so such a high and it is true that Mark and
[27:54] SPEAKER_01: others talk about like the highs are really high and the lows can be a little bit low sometimes.
[28:00] SPEAKER_01: And so I think you just, you feel very alive and you feel, you know, who doesn't want to
[28:06] SPEAKER_01: live their life to the fullest?
[28:08] SPEAKER_01: I think it's a privilege and, you know, Mark and I feel that we have that privilege to feel
[28:14] SPEAKER_01: so satisfied every day to have an idea and to have a bloody well-hard over many, many
[28:21] SPEAKER_01: years to suddenly have that idea be shared with hundreds of thousands, millions of people
[28:26] SPEAKER_01: around the world.
[28:27] SPEAKER_01: That's not an ego thing, that's just, but it is very, very satisfying for sure.
[28:32] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's a cool thing, though.
[28:33] SPEAKER_02: There's definitely guys who've been really good, I mean, some great insights there.
[28:38] SPEAKER_02: There's some really good answers to pretty pro-ing questions there.
[28:45] SPEAKER_02: And people listen to this and I always say, and how can people get a hold of you?
[28:49] SPEAKER_02: Because you may have said something, it sparks something and they want to get some more
[28:55] SPEAKER_02: insight from you guys.
[28:57] SPEAKER_02: It was the best way for people to get a hold of you.
[29:00] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
[29:01] SPEAKER_00: Well, we're on all the social media channels, Twitter, Facebook, everything else.
[29:05] SPEAKER_00: And then you can email us, connect at marblemedia.com, and that will get to us.
[29:10] SPEAKER_00: And we'd love to hear from people, so feel free to reach out.
[29:14] SPEAKER_00: Love to.
[29:14] SPEAKER_02: Okay.
[29:15] SPEAKER_02: Thanks for coming on Canvas Podcast.
[29:17] SPEAKER_02: We'd like to meet you guys.
[29:19] SPEAKER_00: Great to meet you too.
[29:20] SPEAKER_00: Thank you for the great questions, too, if you really enjoyed the conversation.