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TRANSCRIPTION WITH SPEAKERS
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[00:00] SPEAKER_02: Welcome to Canada's podcast.
[00:05] SPEAKER_02: So much a welcome to Canada's podcast nice to meet you and I think as I normally do
[00:13] SPEAKER_02: What I want you to do is sort of
[00:16] SPEAKER_02: Tell everyone who you are you know what you do and where you are in your journey today, okay?
[00:23] SPEAKER_02: That it's you've got you've got an interesting story
[00:27] SPEAKER_02: So I think just just give us a five minute overview
[00:30] SPEAKER_01: Sure, yeah, no and it's a pleasure to be here
[00:33] SPEAKER_01: So my name is Machiaz Jamesky on the CEO and co-founder of Lie Metal
[00:38] SPEAKER_01: My background is technical background on the mechanical engineer by
[00:45] SPEAKER_01: By training and I often say by temperament as well
[00:48] SPEAKER_01: So I started my career with
[00:51] SPEAKER_01: Hatch which is a large Canadian engineering firm sort of be right from the nuts and bolts
[00:57] SPEAKER_01: designing pieces of equipment eventually equipment eventually larger projects mostly in the medical article space
[01:04] SPEAKER_01: And then eventually within a hash I found a group
[01:07] SPEAKER_01: to
[01:09] SPEAKER_01: Develop new technologies new products also
[01:12] SPEAKER_01: Primarily related to the metal space but but expanding a little bit beyond that as well and I think that's that's really what
[01:20] SPEAKER_01: You know, I didn't think of myself as an entrepreneur until he started doing that and
[01:26] SPEAKER_01: But if that that continued for a number of years and we have a few successes, which was great
[01:32] SPEAKER_01: And that got me really interested in the idea of
[01:36] SPEAKER_01: Founding a business from there. I can move
[01:39] SPEAKER_01: You might realize they needed to to develop what my business skills so I moved to very cool. I was
[01:47] SPEAKER_01: brought in to help commercialize some technologies that they have developed in house. I helped run their development facility in Vancouver and
[01:57] SPEAKER_01: Around this is about four years ago now. I reconnected with
[02:02] SPEAKER_01: an old friend of mine from Hatch
[02:04] SPEAKER_01: Who you know we had left not a year apart and
[02:09] SPEAKER_01: I was really quite on fire about the idea of
[02:13] SPEAKER_01: Doing an entrepreneurial venture and he had been quite a successful entrepreneur. He had started of us on the things high cycle, which is a
[02:21] SPEAKER_01: One of the largest North American lucky my own battery slightly companies
[02:25] SPEAKER_01: And so we started to look for before a problem we could help tackle together and one of the things one of the insights that Tim had
[02:33] SPEAKER_01: Was that there was huge disconnect, you know, there was obviously successor technologies to live in my own batteries were starting to become
[02:42] SPEAKER_01: The trend of that they would be commercialized soon and
[02:46] SPEAKER_01: There was also
[02:49] SPEAKER_01: You know, and most of them relied on on lithium metal in some form as
[02:54] SPEAKER_01: High again over to you, but then if you looked at what was going on on the supply chains side in particularly the lithium metal production side
[03:02] SPEAKER_01: If you had sort of elated technology very small production and we immediately solid be okay if these batteries are going to take off
[03:09] SPEAKER_01: We're going to need to scale up production of these materials and nobody's really looking at this in the serious way
[03:15] SPEAKER_01: So that's where we got our entry point
[03:18] SPEAKER_01: and that's something sort of a cliche start, but we really
[03:23] SPEAKER_01: You know, I had just
[03:25] SPEAKER_01: My first son had just been born and was about the same time that this idea came into
[03:31] SPEAKER_01: existence and so I was sort of spending my waking hours
[03:36] SPEAKER_01: Splitting my attention between those those two
[03:40] SPEAKER_01: New borings if you will and so we raised some money initially to help find
[03:47] SPEAKER_01: Esteele type development work and so forth
[03:51] SPEAKER_01: But very quickly realized one that the technology we were developing had legs and two that it wasn't the full solution
[03:59] SPEAKER_01: because when we started talking to the battery
[04:04] SPEAKER_01: Developers they said this is great. We're glad somebody's working on this lithium supply problem
[04:09] SPEAKER_01: You know something we see as a major obstacle but the bigger obstacle is actually in the in the anode materials and so
[04:17] SPEAKER_01: We started very quickly looking at those anode materials
[04:20] SPEAKER_01: We started that be opposed to midnight. I have strong technical backgrounds
[04:23] SPEAKER_01: So we started looking at what are some ways in which you could in the cost effective way produce the anode materials
[04:29] SPEAKER_01: was really transformed the lithium metal into those anode materials and
[04:34] SPEAKER_01: Pretty quickly we came to a house a viable solution started
[04:37] SPEAKER_01: testing and started sample material around and
[04:42] SPEAKER_01: That was where we really got on the roller coaster and
[04:45] SPEAKER_01: You know that it's been about I guess if we take it from that point two and a half or three years from that point
[04:51] SPEAKER_01: We're now a public leafless company we've raised about
[04:54] SPEAKER_01: 30 30 40 million dollars at all toll
[04:57] SPEAKER_01: And we're I think well on our way to
[04:59] SPEAKER_01: Mercializing those technologies. So it's been
[05:04] SPEAKER_02: You're talking like you know, I just raised 40 million dollars to this you know, but you know
[05:13] SPEAKER_02: For people that are listening you know
[05:17] SPEAKER_02: That's a lot of money to to raise okay
[05:23] SPEAKER_02: What made it possible I mean in terms of you know
[05:29] SPEAKER_02: Obviously you you guys follow yeah, I had a you know
[05:33] SPEAKER_02: a great great engineering kind of
[05:37] SPEAKER_02: innovation and and and you know to patents and everything else but
[05:43] SPEAKER_00: What made
[05:45] SPEAKER_00: people
[05:47] SPEAKER_02: Buy in they feel like because that's I think you know
[05:52] SPEAKER_02: It everyone has great ideas whether it be engineering whether it be commercial whether it be this one there'd be that
[05:59] SPEAKER_02: But everyone doesn't get to raise
[06:02] SPEAKER_02: You know 40 million so what made you or think you know, how did you get to that point?
[06:08] SPEAKER_02: It was it was it you know process you was it you know give us some give us some check
[06:13] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean I glossed over a lot of things there right as an necessarily one does
[06:20] SPEAKER_01: But I think there's there were a few things in our favor one was
[06:28] SPEAKER_01: Demence credibility you know, he had done so much work in the lithium space yet you started it two companies he was
[06:38] SPEAKER_01: In the process of scaling up a you know a very promising company
[06:43] SPEAKER_01: So there was there was already a
[06:45] SPEAKER_01: An network of individuals
[06:48] SPEAKER_01: interested in the space who wanted to invest in
[06:52] SPEAKER_01: In another venture that was that was kind of built on a similar model. So I think that was a I mean
[07:00] SPEAKER_01: I'm not being modest when I say that
[07:04] SPEAKER_01: That momentum that is was created by by Tim I mean you know
[07:09] SPEAKER_01: I I'm the technical founder and even though we're both the quite technical people I'm the technical founder so I drove the development
[07:17] SPEAKER_01: I drove a lot of that but
[07:19] SPEAKER_01: But especially in the early days
[07:21] SPEAKER_01: Tim was absolutely instrumental so I think that the lesson there is you know
[07:28] SPEAKER_01: Takes often that takes more than one to put together all the the set of skills and the expertise
[07:34] SPEAKER_02: Something off the ground. How did you manage? Yeah, you know
[07:40] SPEAKER_02: To generate that level of confidence was a presentation was it was it the technical I mean
[07:47] SPEAKER_02: How did you manage to do that? I mean you still got to go and pitch
[07:51] SPEAKER_02: Sure and convince was the sunken was a some kind of
[07:57] SPEAKER_02: process
[07:59] SPEAKER_01: That that worked that you can talk about I don't think we had any any magic formula
[08:05] SPEAKER_01: I think what we what we had is a good sense for what would build that credibility what you know at which at each stage what we need to have
[08:15] SPEAKER_01: Done in order for people to buy into
[08:20] SPEAKER_01: the viability of the of what we were doing I think another thing is you know this was also at a time when the
[08:29] SPEAKER_01: appetite for
[08:31] SPEAKER_01: For the space was very high and it continues to be high
[08:36] SPEAKER_01: It continues to be a massive in growth area, but I think we were starting to see in a way a little bit of turnover
[08:43] SPEAKER_01: Of of interest in that people were starting to look a bit further and further down the road besides just you know mining lithium
[08:50] SPEAKER_01: And so and so I think we were we were fortunate and we were there are investors have been fantastic especially
[08:58] SPEAKER_01: Every were along the range, but especially early on you to really have the vision to see okay
[09:04] SPEAKER_01: This is what's going to be needed in five plus years time. This is a good. This is the kind of technology that needs coming to
[09:11] SPEAKER_01: To exist and so I think you know a lot of credit goes into
[09:16] SPEAKER_01: Tim's efforts to knowing you know who would be interested in this type of story the foresight
[09:21] SPEAKER_01: Exhibited by the
[09:23] SPEAKER_01: The investors themselves and and of course you the the technical work that was done in support of that and validating
[09:30] SPEAKER_01: Yes, that by step the validating aspects of the technology
[09:33] SPEAKER_01: It's all has to come together and I would be lying if we said if I said that you know
[09:39] SPEAKER_01: We had it all figured out from the start and we just executed on that on the carefully laid out plan
[09:45] SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's just that's not how it happens, but I think you being able to draw on that experience and
[09:52] SPEAKER_01: and
[09:53] Speaker UNKNOWN:
[09:55] Speaker UNKNOWN: You
[09:56] SPEAKER_01: Do the work and present the work in an appropriate way he was definitely part of it
[10:01] SPEAKER_02: You know you and Tim both had great careers of you know
[10:08] SPEAKER_02: What I mean they can't it mean it
[10:12] SPEAKER_02: It's an entrepreneur's kind of weird. I think you know what made you step out of that safety zone
[10:20] SPEAKER_02: In the main cuz you're still stepping into something unproven
[10:27] SPEAKER_02: What you know
[10:29] SPEAKER_02: What was the thinking behind that was it was it achievement was it wealth was it both
[10:35] SPEAKER_02: What whatever
[10:37] SPEAKER_01: For me it's
[10:40] SPEAKER_01: It's always been you know, like I said a very technology oriented so I love a good problem and
[10:48] SPEAKER_01: You know as a technology oriented person as an engineer to
[10:54] SPEAKER_01: Like an industry doesn't come into existence every day, right?
[10:58] SPEAKER_01: And that's what we're seeing we're seeing a massive industry come into existence and transform before our eyes and
[11:05] SPEAKER_01: You know if you're an engineer and you're not excited to buy that there's probably something wrong with you
[11:10] SPEAKER_01: So I think that that was a big part of it
[11:13] SPEAKER_01: I think you know, I like I said I love a good problem and there's
[11:18] SPEAKER_01: There's certain limitations within the framework of a large company that
[11:25] SPEAKER_01: You just you just don't get the same breadth of activity that you get from from working on an entrepreneurial venture
[11:31] SPEAKER_01: You don't get to go after the same type of problem. I mean this is
[11:36] SPEAKER_01: admittedly it's a
[11:38] SPEAKER_01: You're you're hitting a moving target. You're not tapping into a market that already exists and trying to get you know two or three percent
[11:44] SPEAKER_01: Marketshare you're actually trying to help bring that market into existence by the technologies that that you're
[11:51] SPEAKER_01: Developing and so I think that's just a fundamentally an interest. It's an exciting problem that pulls you
[11:57] SPEAKER_02: Good so you know
[12:00] SPEAKER_02: Let's move away from the the pure business side of it which has been which is really interesting and certainly
[12:08] SPEAKER_02: Advice people go go look at your company and let's this you've got some very innovative technology there
[12:16] SPEAKER_02: You know, I always like to kind of cover mentorship. Okay. I don't know about you
[12:22] SPEAKER_02: From my perspective I've had a couple of mentors and you know
[12:28] SPEAKER_02: I carry their advice even now with me
[12:32] SPEAKER_02: Is there any kind of you know advice at the mentor kind of
[12:40] SPEAKER_02: Direction that you that you could share with those that sort of been you know
[12:46] SPEAKER_02: And continue to be kind of instrumental in your progression
[12:51] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I can and it's always it's an amalgam or
[12:57] SPEAKER_01: You know different ways different things to set different ways, but basically
[13:05] SPEAKER_00: That's sort of two elements one is
[13:09] SPEAKER_01: Distilled to the finest for the essence. It's keep going
[13:12] SPEAKER_01: You know whenever you're you're dealing with new technology or whenever you're dealing with a new venture. It's like
[13:19] SPEAKER_01: You're never working with the best possible information
[13:23] SPEAKER_01: Every next step gives you additional information that helps you improve your decision
[13:27] SPEAKER_01: And so
[13:30] SPEAKER_01: so
[13:32] SPEAKER_01: One element of that is it's basically like keep going understand
[13:37] SPEAKER_01: Whatever your challenges you happen to come across today are opportunities you come across today
[13:44] SPEAKER_01: You will have additional better information about them as you as you make progress and I think that's really
[13:51] SPEAKER_01: With me and an important element of that which is really the second piece of
[13:56] SPEAKER_01: advice, but it's
[13:58] SPEAKER_01: Instrumental in in allowing the operational on set is
[14:02] SPEAKER_01: It's something actually like co-founder said to me relatively early on
[14:05] SPEAKER_01: Which is that you got to hold these things gently and what that is is really an appeal to
[14:10] SPEAKER_01: Approaching the thing within the ego less
[14:13] SPEAKER_01: Type of approach you know as an entrepreneur you have so much tied up in the for adventure especially at the early stage
[14:19] SPEAKER_01: It's an embodiment of of your vision or what you and
[14:25] SPEAKER_01: But in order to see it clearly I to be able to keep going is you have to kind of hold it with a certain kind of ego less
[14:32] SPEAKER_01: And with a certain distance and look at the developments that happen every day and say okay
[14:37] SPEAKER_01: What does this mean how do I put this into practice?
[14:40] SPEAKER_01: I don't use this to improve
[14:42] SPEAKER_01: Either the technology or how we're running the business or
[14:46] SPEAKER_01: How we're approaching customers whatever it is
[14:49] SPEAKER_01: And I think those two are really powerful combination for anybody who's trying to do something yet
[14:56] SPEAKER_02: You what's what what you know what's the best thing you found
[15:01] SPEAKER_02: About being an entrepreneur
[15:03] SPEAKER_00: Oh, this heavy visit. This is a great things, but I think
[15:09] SPEAKER_00: For me it's it's
[15:13] SPEAKER_00: It's having
[15:15] SPEAKER_00: The freedom to choose the vision especially again at the beginning
[15:19] SPEAKER_01: To really decide which problem and what breadth you want to tackle for and then seeing that evolve over time
[15:28] SPEAKER_01: Through the different stages. You know as the company grows is more people coming and and as a as a founder as an entrepreneur
[15:34] SPEAKER_01: You have this really intimate perspective
[15:37] SPEAKER_01: I think because you really kind of been there along all all of those steps and through all the trials and you you understand the origin
[15:44] SPEAKER_01: And in a very intimate by just seeing that evolution is tremendously interesting and
[15:53] SPEAKER_01: I think just amazing a fodder for learning
[15:59] SPEAKER_02: So you know you obviously enjoy what you're doing you know
[16:06] SPEAKER_02: What don't you like to do?
[16:09] SPEAKER_00: What don't I like to do
[16:10] SPEAKER_00: um
[16:12] SPEAKER_01: Well, I have a pretty pretty simple it's it's a bit of a circular
[16:19] SPEAKER_01: Definition, but there's there's things that I voluntarily stay up, you know till 3 a.m. working on and those are the things that pull me along
[16:27] SPEAKER_01: There are things that are relatively
[16:33] SPEAKER_01: Neutral and then there's those things which I have to put on a ridiculous and
[16:38] SPEAKER_01: Force myself to do and so
[16:41] SPEAKER_01: You know that that category of things is more
[16:46] SPEAKER_01: You know of the administrative nature
[16:48] SPEAKER_01: it's more of
[16:53] SPEAKER_01: It's if I'm if I'm not telling the story if I'm not working on a little problem if I'm not working with the team
[17:00] SPEAKER_01: if it's a
[17:02] SPEAKER_01: If it's an activity that isn't
[17:07] SPEAKER_01: You know in a visceral way related to solving the
[17:10] SPEAKER_01: The business challenges that are in front of us. Those are the things that I you know
[17:15] SPEAKER_01: I have to force myself to do and everybody has those in every
[17:19] SPEAKER_01: In every professional capacity
[17:23] SPEAKER_01: But you know it's
[17:26] SPEAKER_01: If you're a family or you're you're fundamentally a creative you're likely a creative person
[17:32] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and so you like the tasks that are more creative
[17:34] SPEAKER_01: Uh, I think that's that's normal
[17:36] SPEAKER_01: A bit more fun you a morning or night person ask everyone that
[17:41] SPEAKER_01: I think I probably hinted at that but uh
[17:43] SPEAKER_01: The day of the night person
[17:46] SPEAKER_01: Definitely some of my best work is done sort of you have twiddling away on my phone and that trying to not wake up my my wife as um
[17:53] SPEAKER_01: That you know that it's just trying to crack something so it's like I said those are
[17:59] SPEAKER_01: Those are the moments when I know I'm doing
[18:01] SPEAKER_01: Uh exactly what I want to be doing because um
[18:04] SPEAKER_01: I'm uh for going to sleep for so it's uh
[18:07] SPEAKER_01: Definitely a night person
[18:09] SPEAKER_02: What books are you reading if you have any time? I mean or are the all engineering books? I mean that they're you know
[18:15] SPEAKER_01: No, no, they're not all engineering books. I I mean I used to be a huge reader
[18:20] SPEAKER_01: Uh
[18:21] SPEAKER_01: Less so now you know young family and young company
[18:26] SPEAKER_01: To eat up a lot of time. So I I find it do most of my reading as as audio books now
[18:30] SPEAKER_01: I do
[18:31] SPEAKER_01: A paper physical book but most of it is listening which is a bit of a different experience
[18:37] SPEAKER_01: Um the one I'm listening to right now is um the macchi of allians uh by uh James burnum which is a political tree. Yeah. Yeah
[18:48] SPEAKER_00: It's interesting
[18:50] SPEAKER_00: um
[18:53] SPEAKER_02: What's most exciting for you in your business? I mean you you know you're in that kind of
[19:00] SPEAKER_02: You know
[19:03] SPEAKER_02: Really at the forefront of change from from sort of
[19:09] SPEAKER_02: Although your background is is really in resources or whatever you're really kind of changing the way
[19:17] SPEAKER_02: We're we're going to use you know batteries and electricity and things like that. I mean
[19:24] SPEAKER_02: What's most exciting about that space you're you you you live you know
[19:30] SPEAKER_02: We've eaten whatever you know every every minute of the day every second of the day
[19:35] SPEAKER_02: What what can you pass pass on
[19:39] SPEAKER_02: That might be useful for us guys that are looking at it and and thinking about it
[19:45] SPEAKER_01: I think for me you know
[19:48] SPEAKER_01: Then there's there's two aspects one is um
[19:53] SPEAKER_01: You really pushing the what the company is doing really pushing the the boundaries of what's possible
[19:59] SPEAKER_01: With these materials you know, we're really working to enable
[20:04] SPEAKER_01: You know cheaper or cleaner better batteries um but
[20:10] SPEAKER_01: You besides that the focus on commission. I think what was really exciting is
[20:15] SPEAKER_01: You know batteries are a platform
[20:18] SPEAKER_01: There there's something you know, they're like oil was a hundred years ago. They're there's something
[20:24] SPEAKER_01: They're a they're a form of energy storage that makes things possible that weren't possible before
[20:31] SPEAKER_01: So I think one of the most exciting things for me is the
[20:37] SPEAKER_01: The applications that will be enabled by
[20:41] SPEAKER_01: By better batteries are things we don't you know, we either imagine scrubbing rough outline today
[20:48] SPEAKER_01: or
[20:49] SPEAKER_01: Don't imagine yet because the capability is just not
[20:53] SPEAKER_01: Quite there yet on not only that so I think you know things like
[20:57] SPEAKER_01: um
[20:59] SPEAKER_01: Electric air travel I think it's like you know more advanced robotics that are enabled by higher energy storage
[21:06] SPEAKER_01: wider adoption of electric vehicles like all those things will be transformational to to
[21:11] SPEAKER_01: To the economy and to our everyday
[21:15] SPEAKER_01: Lift experience. So I think to me that's what's really exciting about this space, you know, it's that
[21:20] SPEAKER_01: You know, yes from a from from an economic point of view. It's you know massive industry
[21:25] SPEAKER_01: It's an opportunity for countries like Canada and leverage there
[21:29] SPEAKER_01: There existing capabilities and then even better artists spend in the world economy and all of that is great
[21:36] SPEAKER_01: but from
[21:39] SPEAKER_01: Let's say
[21:40] SPEAKER_01: Technical and our perspective. I think what's really exciting is all the the things that we'll build on top of that
[21:47] SPEAKER_01: All the the technologies that will be enabled by these
[21:51] SPEAKER_01: By the next generation batteries and in turn by the materials that we're trying to produce so that's the best you if you want to be excited about
[21:59] SPEAKER_01: Getting up in the morning if you're faced with that prospect. It's pretty easy
[22:04] SPEAKER_02: So, you know one more question really and then we're kind kind of reaching our reaching our end and you know
[22:13] SPEAKER_02: If you had the big one word to describe yourself
[22:18] SPEAKER_02: Well, maybe two words
[22:20] SPEAKER_02: What would it be what would it be?
[22:23] SPEAKER_01: The they'll seem country victory, but I'll say practical and
[22:29] Speaker UNKNOWN: Conquerory
[22:31] SPEAKER_02: Okay, all right, it's been great meeting you and how can people get a hold of you?
[22:37] SPEAKER_02: You know we get a lot of people listening and some you know some of them on a connect basically sure
[22:42] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so linked and as the best
[22:45] SPEAKER_01: Is the best approach there's not a lot of people with my name involved in the lithium industry so I'm easy to find
[22:53] SPEAKER_02: Well, thanks very much for coming on with Canada's podcast and it's been great media
[22:57] SPEAKER_01: Likewise, thank you Philip. It's been it's been a pleasure
