Laura McKay

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[00:00] SPEAKER_00: It's Toronto's podcast on the Canada's podcast network.
[00:04] Speaker UNKNOWN: [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪
[00:19] SPEAKER_01: Hi everyone, I'm Phil Bliss, a business visionary,
[00:22] SPEAKER_01: and welcome to Toronto's Podcasts.
[00:24] SPEAKER_01: Part of the Canada's podcast network,
[00:26] SPEAKER_01: your source of the great insights
[00:28] SPEAKER_01: from entrepreneurs across Canada.
[00:31] SPEAKER_01: Laura, welcome to Canada's Podcasts.
[00:34] SPEAKER_01: It's really great to have you.
[00:35] SPEAKER_00: No, for having me, I love being here.
[00:38] SPEAKER_01: Tell us a little bit more about yourself
[00:41] SPEAKER_01: and what you do and, you know,
[00:44] SPEAKER_01: why you became an entrepreneur.
[00:47] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, sure.
[00:48] SPEAKER_00: So I am CEO and co-founder of PolicyMe,
[00:55] SPEAKER_00: which is a platform with a mission
[00:57] SPEAKER_00: to make it simpler and more affordable
[01:00] SPEAKER_00: to get life insurance for anyone who needs it.
[01:03] SPEAKER_00: So we use modern technology to build,
[01:07] SPEAKER_00: personalize, honest and smart recommendations
[01:09] SPEAKER_00: on how much life insurance you need
[01:12] SPEAKER_00: and what products make sense for you.
[01:15] SPEAKER_00: And then we make it simple to apply
[01:17] SPEAKER_00: and get insured right online with us.
[01:20] SPEAKER_00: When I started this company, it's funny.
[01:21] SPEAKER_00: It's not something I planned on.
[01:23] SPEAKER_00: There's some people that I've spoken to,
[01:26] SPEAKER_00: how have been entrepreneurs since the time they were six.
[01:30] SPEAKER_00: They were building companies just as children,
[01:34] SPEAKER_00: little lemonade stands and things like that.
[01:36] SPEAKER_00: But I followed a pretty traditional career path.
[01:40] SPEAKER_00: I studied mathematics at the University of Waterloo
[01:44] SPEAKER_00: and studied particularly actuarial science,
[01:47] SPEAKER_00: which has a focus on the life insurance industry.
[01:51] SPEAKER_00: I didn't end up pursuing a career in actuarial science,
[01:54] SPEAKER_00: although I did a few terms in it
[01:57] SPEAKER_00: as part of the co-op program at Waterloo.
[02:00] SPEAKER_00: What I did do is pursue a career management consulting.
[02:03] SPEAKER_00: So I spent about four and a half years in New York
[02:06] SPEAKER_00: working with very large kind of Fortune 500 size companies
[02:10] SPEAKER_00: on some of their biggest problems,
[02:12] SPEAKER_00: whether that be kind of regulatory
[02:14] SPEAKER_00: or new product development
[02:17] SPEAKER_00: or just new strategic initiatives that they had.
[02:22] SPEAKER_00: I enjoyed that time, but what I recognize
[02:25] SPEAKER_00: is that I found it to be a bit of a derivative career,
[02:28] SPEAKER_00: meaning that I was giving and helping these companies
[02:32] SPEAKER_00: with their strategies, but I wasn't actually doing
[02:35] SPEAKER_00: the execution or the implementation of those strategies.
[02:39] SPEAKER_00: Once the strategy was done, you kind of end up walking away
[02:42] SPEAKER_00: and just hoping that it gets executed
[02:45] SPEAKER_00: and that it is fulfills all the vision
[02:48] SPEAKER_00: that you had for that strategy.
[02:50] SPEAKER_00: And what I missed out on was just actually getting kind of
[02:53] SPEAKER_00: rolling out my sleeves and doing the work
[02:55] SPEAKER_00: and watching the journey, seeing the successes
[03:00] SPEAKER_00: and the failures based on what you originally thought
[03:03] SPEAKER_00: and your hypotheses and things like that.
[03:06] SPEAKER_00: So ultimately, after about four years
[03:09] SPEAKER_00: in management consulting, I started to think
[03:12] SPEAKER_00: about some alternative career paths
[03:14] SPEAKER_00: and met my current co-founder Andrew,
[03:19] SPEAKER_00: who had a pretty ambitious idea
[03:22] SPEAKER_00: to really disrupt the life insurance industry.
[03:25] SPEAKER_00: We both had been working in that industry for a while
[03:28] SPEAKER_00: and had noticed that there are a lot of problems
[03:31] SPEAKER_00: starting with just like the advice
[03:33] SPEAKER_00: that people were getting in terms of what products
[03:36] SPEAKER_00: make sense for you, all the way to actually getting insured,
[03:39] SPEAKER_00: which was a process that could take 12 to 16 weeks
[03:43] SPEAKER_00: and involved blood tests and urine tests and a lot,
[03:47] SPEAKER_00: a lot of kind of terrible customer pain points.
[03:52] SPEAKER_00: And we looked at that and said,
[03:54] SPEAKER_00: there's gotta be a better way with technology today
[03:58] SPEAKER_00: to get people the advice they need
[04:01] SPEAKER_00: and the protection they need a lot quicker,
[04:04] SPEAKER_00: a lot more affordably and more importantly,
[04:07] SPEAKER_00: a lot simpler so that they actually
[04:09] SPEAKER_00: understood that the product they were purchasing
[04:12] SPEAKER_00: and walked away from that experience
[04:14] SPEAKER_00: with kind of a good experience versus walking away
[04:18] SPEAKER_00: thinking that they were oversold or that it was 12 weeks
[04:22] SPEAKER_00: that they couldn't get back of their lives
[04:24] SPEAKER_00: or anything like that.
[04:25] SPEAKER_00: So we took the step, we talked about it for a very long time
[04:30] SPEAKER_00: and finally decided, you know,
[04:32] SPEAKER_00: either are we gotta stop talking about this idea
[04:35] SPEAKER_00: or are we actually have to do it?
[04:36] SPEAKER_00: So we decided to leave our jobs back in March,
[04:40] SPEAKER_00: not of this year but of last year.
[04:43] SPEAKER_00: So it's been about a year and a half since then
[04:46] SPEAKER_00: and we haven't looked back.
[04:48] SPEAKER_00: We've just been continuously building
[04:50] SPEAKER_00: upon that mission since we started.
[04:53] SPEAKER_01: So you know, you're a mathematician actually,
[04:57] SPEAKER_01: great amount of logic in there.
[04:59] SPEAKER_01: Tell me, was that kind of knowledge?
[05:01] SPEAKER_01: Did you say entrepreneurs are wired differently?
[05:04] SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's a good question.
[05:06] SPEAKER_00: I do think that they are more comfortable
[05:11] SPEAKER_00: with taking calculated risks than not entrepreneurs, for example.
[05:18] SPEAKER_00: I do, there is a lot of uncertainty in this career path.
[05:22] SPEAKER_00: There's uncertainty kind of month to month
[05:25] SPEAKER_00: and you just have to be comfortable with that
[05:28] SPEAKER_00: and realize that the risk is worth taking.
[05:30] SPEAKER_00: And so I just think, for example,
[05:34] SPEAKER_00: that most entrepreneurs are just maybe not wired differently
[05:37] SPEAKER_00: but they are way more comfortable taking risks
[05:42] SPEAKER_00: and dealing with uncertainty than most people are.
[05:46] SPEAKER_01: You know, so you've been at this for just over a year now,
[05:50] SPEAKER_01: a year and a bit.
[05:51] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but a year and a half.
[05:52] SPEAKER_01: What's the journey been like?
[05:53] SPEAKER_01: I mean, is there any significant challenges
[05:56] SPEAKER_01: that you've had to overcome
[05:58] SPEAKER_01: that you didn't expect in that year?
[06:00] SPEAKER_01: That you know, passing that knowledge on might be interesting?
[06:04] SPEAKER_00: I think the biggest challenge for me is overcoming kind of this idea
[06:11] SPEAKER_00: that everything needs to be perfect,
[06:13] SPEAKER_00: especially coming from a management consulting background.
[06:16] SPEAKER_00: We typically made sure that any final deliverable
[06:21] SPEAKER_00: was very much reviewed and looked at
[06:24] SPEAKER_00: and free of any bugs or issues
[06:27] SPEAKER_00: and what you come to realize in the entrepreneur space
[06:30] SPEAKER_00: and definitely in the technology space
[06:33] SPEAKER_00: is the quicker that you're able to get something out
[06:36] SPEAKER_00: and get feedback, the smarter you'll be about your product.
[06:40] SPEAKER_00: So it can be difficult when you associate kind of your success
[06:45] SPEAKER_00: with what you're putting out there for people to use and test
[06:48] SPEAKER_00: and you think, oh, this isn't as good as it could be.
[06:51] SPEAKER_00: I wish I could wait another two months and get it perfect.
[06:54] SPEAKER_00: But you come to realize that the benefit of getting kind
[06:58] SPEAKER_00: of a minimum viable product out there is so much better
[07:02] SPEAKER_00: because you would have probably built that product incorrectly
[07:06] SPEAKER_00: if you did it all at front.
[07:08] SPEAKER_00: The constant iteration and feedback from real customers
[07:11] SPEAKER_00: is key to making your product much better.
[07:15] SPEAKER_00: So definitely making sure that as we continue
[07:18] SPEAKER_00: to build this company that there is that ongoing feedback loop
[07:22] SPEAKER_00: from our customers is going to be very a big challenge
[07:25] SPEAKER_00: for us as we grow.
[07:27] SPEAKER_01: You're in this sort of Toronto kitchen
[07:30] SPEAKER_01: or legal wealth Hamilton business hub as I term it.
[07:37] SPEAKER_01: What are the benefits of doing business here versus elsewhere?
[07:42] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I would say the community is kind of a wonderful one here.
[07:47] SPEAKER_00: I'm currently sitting in 111,
[07:50] SPEAKER_00: which is a co-working space for scale up companies.
[07:55] SPEAKER_00: It has hosted a number of the big fintechs that we look to
[08:00] SPEAKER_00: as kind of mentors in this space,
[08:02] SPEAKER_00: including Boroughwell and WellSimple and Coho
[08:07] SPEAKER_00: and a number of others.
[08:08] SPEAKER_00: So being able to kind of have access to companies and founders
[08:14] SPEAKER_00: who may be 12 to 24 to 36 months of head of you
[08:19] SPEAKER_00: and have recently, you know,
[08:22] SPEAKER_00: in the last couple of years,
[08:23] SPEAKER_00: face the exact same challenges that you're facing
[08:25] SPEAKER_00: and can give you advice on how to how to overcome those challenges
[08:30] SPEAKER_00: has been tremendously helpful,
[08:32] SPEAKER_00: especially as a first time entrepreneur
[08:34] SPEAKER_00: who's kind of going through this for the first time for everything.
[08:40] SPEAKER_00: Obviously having other people out there
[08:42] SPEAKER_00: who have been facing the same challenges has been.
[08:45] SPEAKER_01: So what are some of the challenges
[08:46] SPEAKER_01: that we've been business here?
[08:48] SPEAKER_00: So there's a couple.
[08:50] SPEAKER_00: I think in our particular space in financial services,
[08:53] SPEAKER_00: one of the biggest challenges as a small new company
[08:56] SPEAKER_00: is building trust with your customers.
[08:59] SPEAKER_00: So obviously, you know,
[09:02] SPEAKER_00: dealing with sensitive private information,
[09:05] SPEAKER_00: dealing with payment is going to be something
[09:10] SPEAKER_00: that you need to constantly be aware of
[09:13] SPEAKER_00: and continuously try and build up brand and trust
[09:16] SPEAKER_00: for customers who are going to kind of use your solution,
[09:20] SPEAKER_00: use your advice and ultimately get insured through you.
[09:24] SPEAKER_00: So that's a challenge.
[09:25] SPEAKER_00: It's one we're working on
[09:27] SPEAKER_00: and constantly thinking of how do we continuously build
[09:31] SPEAKER_00: better trust with Canadians?
[09:34] SPEAKER_00: I think another one,
[09:35] SPEAKER_00: particular to Toronto is actually kind of finding talent.
[09:40] SPEAKER_00: It's a competitive space right now.
[09:42] SPEAKER_00: There are a lot of great, wonderful startup
[09:45] SPEAKER_00: companies looking for software developers and marketers
[09:50] SPEAKER_00: and all the key talent roles that most startups need
[09:55] SPEAKER_00: and just making sure that you're able to find
[09:59] SPEAKER_00: those talent, the kind of that type of talent
[10:01] SPEAKER_00: in this competitive market has been a challenge.
[10:06] SPEAKER_01: Obviously you like it here,
[10:07] SPEAKER_01: but let's sort of move along a bit from that.
[10:10] SPEAKER_01: You know, some of our best ideas,
[10:12] SPEAKER_01: come when we least expect them,
[10:15] SPEAKER_01: which is why we disconnect sometimes, you know, recharge.
[10:19] SPEAKER_01: How do you disconnect?
[10:21] SPEAKER_01: How do you get inspired?
[10:23] SPEAKER_01: Or do you disconnect?
[10:24] SPEAKER_00: I try to.
[10:27] SPEAKER_00: I've had to do recently.
[10:28] SPEAKER_00: I was actually starting off the notifications on my phone.
[10:32] SPEAKER_00: It just, it pulls you away from even if you're at work,
[10:37] SPEAKER_00: it can pull you away from the task that you're doing
[10:39] SPEAKER_00: and totally distract you and send you
[10:42] SPEAKER_00: in 12 different directions every day.
[10:45] SPEAKER_00: So that's one, I think just turning off,
[10:48] SPEAKER_00: setting aside time just to deal with email
[10:53] SPEAKER_00: versus dealing with it during your entire day,
[10:56] SPEAKER_00: 24-7 is helpful.
[10:58] SPEAKER_00: But more specifically, there's a few things I do one
[11:02] SPEAKER_00: as I really, I walk to work every day,
[11:05] SPEAKER_00: which is different from my commute when I was in New York.
[11:08] SPEAKER_00: I used to take the subway for 45 minutes
[11:10] SPEAKER_00: and I find the walk is incredible just to clear my head
[11:15] SPEAKER_00: and just have some time to myself to reflect
[11:18] SPEAKER_00: on what I'm about to do today
[11:20] SPEAKER_00: and at the end of the day, like how the days went
[11:23] SPEAKER_00: and if there's anything I could have improved on.
[11:27] SPEAKER_00: And then the second thing, I take pottery classes
[11:29] SPEAKER_00: and downtown Toronto and I love that.
[11:33] SPEAKER_00: One, it forces you completely to disconnect
[11:35] SPEAKER_00: because your hands are covered in clay
[11:37] SPEAKER_00: so you can't really be checking your phone
[11:40] SPEAKER_00: or anything like that during those couple of hours.
[11:44] SPEAKER_00: And it's just a great time to just pull away from work
[11:48] SPEAKER_00: and just do something completely different
[11:51] SPEAKER_00: and a little creative and be with a group of people
[11:55] SPEAKER_00: doing the same thing who aren't necessarily
[11:57] SPEAKER_00: within kind of your friend group
[12:00] SPEAKER_00: or your coworker group.
[12:02] SPEAKER_00: So it's a great activity I find to pull away.
[12:06] SPEAKER_01: So in the insurance business,
[12:09] SPEAKER_01: what do you see as the biggest opportunity
[12:12] SPEAKER_01: in the next five years or are you the biggest opportunity?
[12:16] SPEAKER_00: I think there's a few different things
[12:21] SPEAKER_00: that the insurance company is gonna need to address
[12:24] SPEAKER_00: in order to stay as relevant as they have.
[12:29] SPEAKER_00: One is definitely rethinking the distribution
[12:32] SPEAKER_00: of this product.
[12:33] SPEAKER_00: So today, about 95% of people are still buying
[12:38] SPEAKER_00: life insurance through face-to-face sales with a broker.
[12:43] SPEAKER_00: So going into someone's office
[12:45] SPEAKER_00: or inviting someone into your home to discuss your needs
[12:49] SPEAKER_00: and to basically give you a recommendation
[12:51] SPEAKER_00: on what products you need and to hand hold you
[12:54] SPEAKER_00: through the application process with your insurer.
[12:57] SPEAKER_00: I think our new generation, that's just not the way
[13:01] SPEAKER_00: we buy products anymore.
[13:04] SPEAKER_00: One, we like to educate ourselves.
[13:08] SPEAKER_00: We're used to doing that online.
[13:10] SPEAKER_00: So I think building content and the education needed
[13:15] SPEAKER_00: in order to kind of self-service a little more
[13:17] SPEAKER_00: in terms of learning about the product
[13:20] SPEAKER_00: and finding out what product makes that most sense for you
[13:23] SPEAKER_00: is gonna be important and shifting kind of some
[13:27] SPEAKER_00: of that just to the ocean to an online journey
[13:30] SPEAKER_00: is gonna be important.
[13:32] SPEAKER_00: And then the second thing is I think they're really gonna
[13:35] SPEAKER_00: need to rethink their underwriting process
[13:38] SPEAKER_00: to get someone insured.
[13:39] SPEAKER_00: Today, most people need a blood and urine test
[13:42] SPEAKER_00: in order to get life insurance.
[13:44] SPEAKER_00: There's no reason with the abundance of data
[13:46] SPEAKER_00: available on us today that that can't be done
[13:49] SPEAKER_00: using existing data versus requiring a medical,
[13:54] SPEAKER_00: the equivalent as like a doctor's checkup
[13:57] SPEAKER_00: in order to get insured.
[14:00] SPEAKER_00: So I think those two things really are gonna be
[14:02] SPEAKER_00: important in order to make sure that we don't see
[14:05] SPEAKER_00: a dip in the sales for this product.
[14:08] SPEAKER_00: And it's an incredible product for people.
[14:11] SPEAKER_00: It can be the difference of them,
[14:13] SPEAKER_00: their family being able to maintain their lifestyle
[14:16] SPEAKER_00: versus facing a huge financial burden
[14:18] SPEAKER_00: if someone in their family unfortunately passed away.
[14:23] SPEAKER_00: And so I wouldn't like to see a dip in sales,
[14:25] SPEAKER_00: but I do think if we can't address those two problems
[14:30] SPEAKER_00: in the market, I do think we'll struggle to
[14:34] SPEAKER_00: kind of service a new generation
[14:36] SPEAKER_00: that has very different expectations.
[14:38] SPEAKER_01: So what would you say of the top three things
[14:40] SPEAKER_01: on your bucket list vision board right now?
[14:45] SPEAKER_00: I would say the first is continuing to scale the team.
[14:49] SPEAKER_00: We've definitely seen a lot of traction in the market
[14:52] SPEAKER_00: for our product in order to keep building
[14:55] SPEAKER_00: better products and services for our customers.
[14:58] SPEAKER_00: We're gonna have to hire the right talent
[15:00] SPEAKER_00: to help us build those products and services.
[15:03] SPEAKER_00: So I spend at least 30% of my time today
[15:07] SPEAKER_00: on just recruiting and finding the right talent
[15:10] SPEAKER_00: to join our team.
[15:12] SPEAKER_00: The second thing I think would be on
[15:14] SPEAKER_00: continually evolving the products
[15:18] SPEAKER_00: that we're offering our customers.
[15:20] SPEAKER_00: So refinking whether these products make sense
[15:24] SPEAKER_00: based on what customers actually need.
[15:26] SPEAKER_00: And if there's a better way to service those needs
[15:29] SPEAKER_00: is gonna be pretty important.
[15:32] SPEAKER_00: The third thing would be continuously thinking
[15:35] SPEAKER_00: about expanding into new geographies
[15:38] SPEAKER_00: and what the steps it would take in order to do that.
[15:42] SPEAKER_01: On a personal level, you know,
[15:44] SPEAKER_01: we do find this as an entrepreneur's
[15:47] SPEAKER_01: in our hard-to-be plan.
[15:50] SPEAKER_01: We often get faced with unexpected challenges.
[15:53] SPEAKER_01: How do you handle them and come out alive on the other side?
[15:58] SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's a tough one.
[16:01] SPEAKER_00: I think it's become easier over time to be honest.
[16:05] SPEAKER_00: I think you at first any challenge that comes
[16:08] SPEAKER_00: you think is gonna be the biggest deal
[16:11] SPEAKER_00: in the history of your business
[16:13] SPEAKER_00: and you really gotta solve it in order to keep going.
[16:17] SPEAKER_00: I think you come to realize that this is a bit more
[16:20] SPEAKER_00: like a marathon than a sprint.
[16:22] SPEAKER_00: So you realize these challenges are gonna come up.
[16:25] SPEAKER_00: You gain confidence that you're gonna be able
[16:28] SPEAKER_00: to solve them as a team
[16:30] SPEAKER_00: and figure out a right solution to that.
[16:32] SPEAKER_00: So I think the first step is just realizing
[16:35] SPEAKER_00: we'll be able to solve this.
[16:37] SPEAKER_00: We need to spend the time to solve it obviously,
[16:39] SPEAKER_00: but it's not gonna be a deal breaker for you.
[16:42] SPEAKER_00: And then I think also, as I said before,
[16:45] SPEAKER_00: going back to your community of mentors and advisors
[16:49] SPEAKER_00: of other founders who have been through similar challenges
[16:53] SPEAKER_00: and really leaning on them to get their advice and support
[16:56] SPEAKER_00: and thoughts on how to solve it.
[16:59] SPEAKER_00: And I think there's a lot of people out there
[17:02] SPEAKER_00: who are very happy to offer that advice.
[17:06] SPEAKER_01: Speaking about advice,
[17:08] SPEAKER_01: what's the best piece of advice that you've received?
[17:12] SPEAKER_00: Ah, that's a good one.
[17:14] SPEAKER_00: From a founder when we were first starting
[17:16] SPEAKER_00: and when we were building our product that hadn't launched yet,
[17:20] SPEAKER_00: one piece of advice they gave us is,
[17:22] SPEAKER_00: if you liked the first product you launched,
[17:25] SPEAKER_00: you probably waited way too long to launch the product.
[17:30] SPEAKER_00: So again, there is just the benefit
[17:32] SPEAKER_00: of moving quickly, testing and iterating
[17:35] SPEAKER_00: and not be afraid of something that may have a few bugs in it
[17:40] SPEAKER_00: or doesn't work in every single edge case
[17:43] SPEAKER_00: at the beginning is a good piece of feedback.
[17:46] SPEAKER_00: Otherwise, you're gonna take way too long to learn
[17:49] SPEAKER_00: about your customers, about your products,
[17:53] SPEAKER_00: about the kind of the needs that you're meeting.
[17:56] SPEAKER_00: So trying to move as quickly as possible.
[17:59] SPEAKER_01: Since about the list of bit about lessons,
[18:02] SPEAKER_01: if you could go back in time,
[18:04] SPEAKER_01: what advice would you give your twin-year-old self?
[18:10] SPEAKER_00: Oh, what's a good question?
[18:13] SPEAKER_00: I think I would say, you know, spend time exploring your options.
[18:21] SPEAKER_00: I think when you're in high school and university,
[18:23] SPEAKER_00: you spend a lot of time thinking about the Zach career path
[18:27] SPEAKER_00: you're gonna pursue and just to realize that, like,
[18:31] SPEAKER_00: you may take some turns in the road,
[18:34] SPEAKER_00: just get your feet kind of dirty and,
[18:36] Speaker UNKNOWN: and you know, you're gonna be able to do
[18:37] SPEAKER_00: any career path, learn what you like,
[18:39] SPEAKER_00: and don't be afraid to kind of jump
[18:43] SPEAKER_00: as new opportunities present themselves.
[18:46] SPEAKER_00: I think it's been a lot of time university focusing
[18:48] SPEAKER_00: on my actual science career and trying to get the exams done.
[18:53] SPEAKER_00: And really, I wish I had spent more time
[18:56] SPEAKER_00: just kind of finding random internships
[18:58] SPEAKER_00: at different companies just to see what type of roles
[19:01] SPEAKER_00: and businesses I would be passionate about.
[19:05] SPEAKER_01: Let's speak about that.
[19:05] SPEAKER_01: If you were doing really some fairly rapid-far questions now,
[19:09] SPEAKER_01: if you were doing what you do for work now,
[19:12] SPEAKER_01: what would you be doing instead?
[19:15] SPEAKER_00: That's interesting.
[19:17] SPEAKER_00: I'm very passionate about financial literacy.
[19:22] SPEAKER_00: I think there is a huge gap in personal finance education
[19:27] SPEAKER_00: for a lot of Canadians.
[19:28] SPEAKER_00: And I think I would certainly be,
[19:30] SPEAKER_00: and I'm very confident that technology today
[19:33] SPEAKER_00: is gonna make financial advice and financial education
[19:36] SPEAKER_00: way more accessible to more and more people.
[19:39] SPEAKER_00: So I think I would be focusing on that
[19:42] SPEAKER_00: in a different industry, whether that be on credit
[19:46] SPEAKER_00: or banking or loans or anything like that.
[19:51] SPEAKER_00: I'd likely be focused on that.
[19:53] SPEAKER_01: Well, bookie economy reading or listening to
[19:55] SPEAKER_01: what some people say.
[19:57] SPEAKER_01: And there's really kind of particular book
[19:59] SPEAKER_01: that you've read in the last couple of years
[20:01] SPEAKER_01: that you would recommend.
[20:03] SPEAKER_00: Well, today I'm reading Michael Lewis's Flash Boys.
[20:07] SPEAKER_00: It talks about the high-frequency trading phenomenon
[20:12] SPEAKER_00: that happened after the market crash.
[20:15] SPEAKER_00: It's a great book.
[20:16] SPEAKER_00: I like Michael Lewis a lot,
[20:18] SPEAKER_00: but I'm only 20% through it,
[20:22] SPEAKER_00: so I can't give a final recommendation yet.
[20:24] SPEAKER_00: One of my favorite books I've read in the last five or six years
[20:29] SPEAKER_00: was The Glass Castle.
[20:33] SPEAKER_00: And this is about kind of a story
[20:36] SPEAKER_00: about overcoming a ton of challenges
[20:39] SPEAKER_00: and growing up in a very lower class income family in the US
[20:44] SPEAKER_00: and being able to be very successful,
[20:48] SPEAKER_00: even though you grew up in that circumstances,
[20:52] SPEAKER_00: but it's also very focused on kind of the importance
[20:55] SPEAKER_00: of family and unconditional love for your family.
[20:58] SPEAKER_00: So I love that book.
[21:00] SPEAKER_00: I think it's a great book to just put your own life
[21:05] SPEAKER_00: into perspective and see how other people
[21:08] SPEAKER_00: are overcoming challenges that were harder than anything
[21:11] SPEAKER_00: I had to do.
[21:12] SPEAKER_01: So this is really about your morning or night person.
[21:16] SPEAKER_01: I find that entrepreneurs tend to have routines
[21:20] SPEAKER_01: that they use and they generally at the beginning
[21:22] SPEAKER_01: well, the end of the day.
[21:24] SPEAKER_01: What do you think?
[21:26] SPEAKER_00: I think it's more of the morning.
[21:29] SPEAKER_00: I definitely, I kind of get up, as I said,
[21:33] SPEAKER_00: I walk to work every morning, so that's a really,
[21:36] SPEAKER_00: I loved that part of my day.
[21:38] Speaker UNKNOWN: Do you get a healthy rising?
[21:39] SPEAKER_01: Do you get a fully?
[21:40] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I get up around 7 a.m. every day, get ready for work.
[21:44] SPEAKER_00: I take my time getting ready for work.
[21:45] SPEAKER_00: I don't, I don't rush in by any means.
[21:48] SPEAKER_00: I walk to work, I pick up a coffee along the way.
[21:52] SPEAKER_00: And then when I get in, I would say my biggest focus
[21:54] SPEAKER_00: is trying to just clear my inbox
[21:58] SPEAKER_00: and just get all the quick responses and short emails
[22:01] SPEAKER_00: out of my way before kind of starting tackling
[22:04] SPEAKER_00: some of the bigger projects for the day.
[22:07] SPEAKER_01: So if you had to pick one word, I'll let you do two
[22:10] SPEAKER_01: if you want to describe yourself.
[22:13] SPEAKER_01: What would it be?
[22:15] SPEAKER_00: Usually I would say, I think I consider myself
[22:20] SPEAKER_00: pretty clear-headed, meaning I can take kind of challenges
[22:25] SPEAKER_00: and stride and make sure that I kind of stay unbiased
[22:31] SPEAKER_00: as I'm making a decision against those challenges.
[22:37] SPEAKER_00: So I would say that's probably the best word to describe me.
[22:40] SPEAKER_01: How's it keeping you up at night?
[22:42] SPEAKER_00: I think that's not being able to move fast enough.
[22:47] SPEAKER_00: Probably a lot of entrepreneurs say that.
[22:49] SPEAKER_01: You're gonna have to call anyone, yes.
[22:53] SPEAKER_00: You know, every space is a crowded space
[22:55] SPEAKER_00: and you know that you can be,
[22:58] SPEAKER_00: you have a lot of great ideas
[23:00] SPEAKER_00: and you just kind of want to get moving on them
[23:03] SPEAKER_00: as quickly as possible and not get too distracted
[23:06] SPEAKER_00: by Roblox along the way.
[23:09] SPEAKER_00: So definitely in just, in my head, I always think about
[23:13] SPEAKER_00: like how can we get things out quicker?
[23:15] SPEAKER_00: How can we find quicker ways to move?
[23:19] SPEAKER_01: What's your most favorite place in the world?
[23:22] SPEAKER_00: I love just being by the water, specifically lakes.
[23:28] SPEAKER_00: I try to get camping or decodages as often as possible
[23:32] SPEAKER_00: in the summer, especially in Ontario.
[23:35] SPEAKER_00: There's just some beautiful lake countries to go to
[23:39] SPEAKER_00: and just get a break.
[23:40] SPEAKER_00: So I would say that just a morning by the water somewhere
[23:46] SPEAKER_00: and in the Moscow country or the Corp is or something like that.
[23:50] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think that's just where they both came from
[23:52] SPEAKER_01: as we get near.
[23:53] Speaker UNKNOWN: 
[23:54] SPEAKER_01: So you probably heard this if you listened to it,
[23:57] SPEAKER_01: we all asked the question of, you know,
[23:59] SPEAKER_01: there's a small tropical island in the middle of the ocean
[24:02] SPEAKER_01: with only one phone and no internet.
[24:05] SPEAKER_01: We dropped your off there with no technology at all.
[24:08] SPEAKER_01: At any time you can use the phone
[24:10] SPEAKER_01: which has to be a boost on the island
[24:11] SPEAKER_01: to call the boat and we'll come pick you up.
[24:14] SPEAKER_01: How long would you last before making that call
[24:17] SPEAKER_01: and what would you do?
[24:19] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's it.
[24:21] SPEAKER_00: I have heard the question.
[24:22] SPEAKER_00: I love the question.
[24:23] SPEAKER_01: I love it because everyone has different answers.
[24:26] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, people come at it in such different ways.
[24:29] SPEAKER_00: I think for me, it would depend a little bit
[24:31] SPEAKER_00: about how much time I had to plan for this.
[24:36] SPEAKER_00: I don't describe myself as someone who could like
[24:39] SPEAKER_00: easily find a water source.
[24:42] SPEAKER_00: I'm like, you know, pick up some hunting skills,
[24:48] SPEAKER_00: just with no planning or reading up on that or anything.
[24:55] SPEAKER_00: I read sometimes some like apocalyptic books
[24:58] SPEAKER_00: and I always try and figure out where I fit in the scenario.
[25:01] SPEAKER_00: Am I going to be the person who survives
[25:03] SPEAKER_00: or the person who gets the disease the quickest?
[25:07] SPEAKER_00: I think I'm somewhere in the middle.
[25:08] SPEAKER_00: I think I could last, you know, two to three days
[25:11] SPEAKER_00: but at some point I think I would just pick up the phone
[25:15] SPEAKER_00: and go home.
[25:18] SPEAKER_01: Hey, Lauren, it's been great meeting you.
[25:21] SPEAKER_01: Is there anything that you want to say
[25:23] SPEAKER_01: that I might not have prompted you on?
[25:25] SPEAKER_01: Is there anything that I missed
[25:27] SPEAKER_01: that you would think had really important for entrepreneurs?
[25:30] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I would just say if anyone's considering it
[25:33] SPEAKER_00: just to take the jump and try it,
[25:36] SPEAKER_00: there's not too many in retrospect.
[25:39] SPEAKER_00: It's not too much of a risk
[25:40] SPEAKER_00: and in terms of your career path,
[25:43] SPEAKER_00: I think you're just going to be more knowledgeable
[25:46] SPEAKER_00: because of it, whether you fail or succeed,
[25:50] SPEAKER_00: you're going to learn so much along the way
[25:52] SPEAKER_00: that's going to help you in any future career
[25:55] SPEAKER_00: that you need to do.
[25:57] SPEAKER_00: So I think just in general,
[25:59] SPEAKER_00: it would be the recommendation to take the jump
[26:01] SPEAKER_00: for anyone who's thinking about it.
[26:03] SPEAKER_00: And just thank you for having me on.
[26:06] SPEAKER_00: It's been great.
[26:07] SPEAKER_01: So where can Melissa spying you online?
[26:10] SPEAKER_01: How can they get all of you?
[26:12] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so they just can reach me via email
[26:15] SPEAKER_00: at LauraLAURA.MKMCKAY at policyme.pliCYME.com.
[26:27] SPEAKER_01: Well, Laura, thank you once more
[26:29] SPEAKER_01: and thanks for coming on Canada's podcast.
[26:32] SPEAKER_00: Great. Yeah, thank you.
[26:34] SPEAKER_01: Thanks everyone for taking the time today
[26:36] SPEAKER_01: to listen to Toronto's podcast
[26:38] SPEAKER_01: on the Canada's podcast network.
[26:40] SPEAKER_01: I hope you enjoyed the podcast today.
[26:43] SPEAKER_01: Make sure you sign up for a newsletters
[26:45] SPEAKER_01: or write a review for us on iTunes.
[26:48] SPEAKER_01: You can connect with us on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram,
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[26:54] SPEAKER_01: where you can listen, discover and engage.
[26:57] SPEAKER_01: You can also check out what other entrepreneurs
[26:59] SPEAKER_01: are doing across the country.
[27:01] SPEAKER_01: I'll see you next time.