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TRANSCRIPTION WITH SPEAKERS
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[00:01] SPEAKER_02: Today's podcast is sponsored by the cooperators. As part of your local community, their advisors
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[00:25] SPEAKER_00: find a local advisor today. Welcome to Canada's podcast, the number one podcast for entrepreneurs
[00:34] SPEAKER_02: by entrepreneurs. Good afternoon everyone and welcome to Canada's podcast. I'm Bonnie LG host
[00:41] SPEAKER_02: of Calgary's podcast here in Alberta. And today I am delighted to welcome author, speaker,
[00:48] SPEAKER_02: and executive coach Jason Kraus to the podcast. Jason is a former pilot for the National
[00:54] SPEAKER_02: Canadian Bob's lead team and is also the founder of Level 52, a leadership development and
[01:01] SPEAKER_02: executive coaching practice. Jason, welcome to the show. I'm so glad you could be here.
[01:06] SPEAKER_02: Thanks, Bonnie. It's great to be here. Yeah, well let's jump right in and can you tell our listeners
[01:12] SPEAKER_02: a little bit about yourself and in particular what has inspired this passion that you have for
[01:18] SPEAKER_01: leadership development? The passion for me started when I was a national team athlete.
[01:24] SPEAKER_01: Being in the world of constantly seeking to make things better, I was an avid reader. I was
[01:31] SPEAKER_01: also studying business during my, during my athletic career, but it was a close friendship with
[01:38] SPEAKER_01: another athlete named Steve Messler, where we'd speak about these things and about leadership,
[01:43] SPEAKER_01: high performance. And we thought, you know, we have access to a lot of interesting resources,
[01:50] SPEAKER_01: mindsets. How do we get these out into the world outside of sport? And that's when the wheel
[01:56] SPEAKER_01: started turning and then the experimentation began around taking these principles,
[02:02] SPEAKER_01: packaging them with some emerging science and helping leaders make a difference.
[02:08] SPEAKER_02: Right. Yes, do you spend, I guess, on the podcast as well? That's a great connection.
[02:15] SPEAKER_02: So can you dive a bit deeper into an example of maybe some of those principles that you
[02:22] SPEAKER_02: you learned on the Bob's Lead track that you've been able to apply now in this next iteration
[02:29] SPEAKER_01: of your career? The first one that jumps out to me is defining what high performance is.
[02:36] SPEAKER_01: A lot of people when they see high performance masterful leaders, they think they found something big,
[02:43] SPEAKER_01: like what's the big thing that they do when really in high performance, sport like Bob's Lead,
[02:50] SPEAKER_01: a hundredth of a second makes the difference between being on the podium or out of the race or
[02:55] SPEAKER_01: footballs, a game of inches. And high performance leadership is the same or what, you know,
[03:01] SPEAKER_01: we extended to meaningful leadership when it's the little things that make the biggest difference.
[03:07] SPEAKER_01: So while everyone else is waiting, hoping, chasing for the magic bullets that are going to save the
[03:13] SPEAKER_01: day or fix their environment, it's the high performance and meaningful leaders that are focusing
[03:19] SPEAKER_01: on the little things that most people step over or ignore. And so what would be an example of
[03:26] SPEAKER_02: a little thing that a lot of people ignore, but actually can be the difference maker.
[03:33] SPEAKER_01: Anything from taking a stance for clarity, you so many leaders, even when they don't think they do,
[03:40] SPEAKER_01: they do speak in short-hand or nebulous words. If you and I are on the same team and I say,
[03:49] SPEAKER_01: hey, Bonnie, I need you to take more ownership. And you go, yeah, yeah, I can do that. And I'm like,
[03:54] SPEAKER_01: okay, great, Bonnie is going to take more ownership. And then you leave based on your understanding
[04:00] SPEAKER_01: of what you think ownership is to me. And it's a guessing game. So much friction happens in
[04:08] SPEAKER_01: the business environment because of assumptions. Whereas I can employ a simple tool like one that
[04:14] SPEAKER_01: we call book ending where I talk about ownership. Okay, Bonnie, I need you to take more ownership.
[04:20] SPEAKER_01: This is what it looks like to me. This is what I would see you doing. These are the actions.
[04:25] SPEAKER_01: These are what I would hear you saying. And so really create that clear image so that we're
[04:31] SPEAKER_01: looking at the same idea of ownership. And then just as important, let's talk about what ownership
[04:38] SPEAKER_01: is it. Just to make sure these are the things that are really going to disappoint.
[04:44] SPEAKER_01: It's a little thing that's so simple that most people don't take the time to do.
[04:50] SPEAKER_02: We hear something and immediately move to action instead of clarification.
[04:55] SPEAKER_01: And then we figure we wonder how the heck did we get so far apart?
[04:59] SPEAKER_02: So our audience Jason is a broad range of entrepreneurs across North America. Some are our
[05:07] SPEAKER_02: smaller business owners, some run large organizations. I'm wondering, who are the clients that
[05:15] SPEAKER_02: you work with and how do you work with them or do you have different service offerings depending
[05:21] SPEAKER_01: on the needs of an organization? This is one of the things that has shifted since COVID.
[05:30] SPEAKER_01: A lot of our work usually came into two came in through two channels. One, we do enterprise
[05:37] SPEAKER_01: programs, deliver leadership programs inside the business or individual leaders would reach out
[05:43] SPEAKER_01: for one to one coaching. But now it's, we've opened up our programs where, whereas before we'd have
[05:52] SPEAKER_01: 15, 30 people in a program from one organization, we changed it to more open enrollment,
[05:59] SPEAKER_01: which has been a benefit to everyone where you have four people from, let's say, the head office
[06:06] SPEAKER_01: at Home Depot, two people from Google, three from ATB. Whatever it is, you have a wide cross-section
[06:14] SPEAKER_01: of industry from people from San Francisco, Boston, Edmonton, like everywhere. So that has been
[06:22] SPEAKER_01: a big shift. Primarily, businesses hire us to train their leaders or leaders hire us to elevate
[06:30] SPEAKER_02: their fitness, their ability. So obviously, when you're talking about working with organizations
[06:38] SPEAKER_02: all over the world and all over North America, you've had to pivot as we've gone into restrictions
[06:45] SPEAKER_02: associated with the pandemic. I'm curious, what did you have to do when the world started to change
[06:52] SPEAKER_01: less March? Our business, the way it was structured, so much of our work evaporated with travel
[07:02] SPEAKER_01: restrictions. Like I said before the call, we were flying everywhere to deliver our work. And
[07:09] SPEAKER_01: all of a sudden, with these restrictions, we had to change. And I'm so proud of the way the team
[07:15] SPEAKER_01: took our work, what we'd normally do in a couple of days in person. We created extended 12-week
[07:23] SPEAKER_01: programs, two hours a week, where there is no question that it is a better product.
[07:32] SPEAKER_01: Because now instead of exposing you to the concepts and having you work on it over two days,
[07:38] SPEAKER_01: we can spread it out over 12 weeks. Take a deeper dive into a specific area of content. So now you can
[07:45] SPEAKER_01: exercise it and apply it. That's what matters. Like the training is useless. If you don't apply it
[07:51] SPEAKER_01: to move the needle in your environment. And so we are forced to innovate, the program design,
[07:57] SPEAKER_01: the delivery, and it painful as it was, it we are much better off for it and so are our clients.
[08:07] SPEAKER_02: And I'm curious, working with your clients, what have been some of the greatest challenges?
[08:14] SPEAKER_02: They faced as we've had to adapt. The way that we do business, right down to the fact that,
[08:22] SPEAKER_02: teams cannot be physically together, the way that they once were. And I'm just curious, what are
[08:28] SPEAKER_02: some of those common themes or challenges that you've heard from your clients? And how have you
[08:34] SPEAKER_02: helped them adapt or move forward in their leadership role? The first one that jumps out is dealing
[08:42] SPEAKER_01: with uncertainty. We knew it was always a possibility that things can change, but a pandemic and
[08:48] SPEAKER_01: the extent was, I don't think on anyone's radar. And now it's sort of the waiting game. What will we
[08:55] SPEAKER_01: go back to? What are the elements of normal that we'll have that that will experience moving forward?
[09:02] SPEAKER_01: And there's just so much uncertainty. And working with leaders to create certainty, mile markers,
[09:12] SPEAKER_01: structures that help us focus our attention on what matters because we all know the entropy that
[09:19] SPEAKER_01: can happen when just our focus or creativity leaks because it we're getting pulled into the place
[09:27] SPEAKER_01: of uncertainty. And so working with leaders and their teams to identify, okay, there may be a lot
[09:34] SPEAKER_01: of things we don't know. But what do we know? How do we still make 2021? A great year, despite
[09:44] SPEAKER_02: the things that we don't know yet? How do they adapt to that stress? Like it's been an extraordinarily
[09:52] SPEAKER_02: stressful time for people, regardless of where they sit in an organization, but you know, we hear a
[10:01] SPEAKER_02: lot about mental health right now and the long-term impacts of uncertainty. How are you supporting
[10:09] SPEAKER_02: them or coaching them in dealing with their stress in a manageable way? So two things, maybe even three.
[10:19] SPEAKER_01: One, whether you're an entrepreneur, a leader in your business, working inside the business,
[10:28] SPEAKER_01: there's a concept that we enroll leaders to embrace. And that is the mindset of meaningful
[10:36] SPEAKER_01: masochism. Pains' challenges, turbulence are a part of being a leader or business owner.
[10:45] SPEAKER_01: And they can overwhelm us when it looks like a massive tsunami of pain, stress, irritations.
[10:53] SPEAKER_01: But a meaningful masochist in our language and our words is someone that identifies the pains
[11:00] SPEAKER_01: that they will pursue on the path towards their resonant vision. It's a reality we're going to
[11:07] SPEAKER_01: face these challenges. If we aren't, then that's actually when we got to start being careful.
[11:12] SPEAKER_01: And so a meaningful masochist finds the pains that are truly going to help us exercise and elevate
[11:18] SPEAKER_01: our fitness as a business, as a team. But then the big question is, like, what is the compelling vision
[11:26] SPEAKER_01: that has me want to exercise these? Without it, it can easily be sucked into the place of overwhelm.
[11:34] SPEAKER_01: Then it is the, you know, the exhilaration you get from the progress of engaging with the pain,
[11:40] SPEAKER_01: much like an athlete. But then a tangible tool that any leader or individual for that matter
[11:49] SPEAKER_01: can benefit from is what we call a CSPM Ventory. That take inventory of all of the things that
[11:57] SPEAKER_01: are turbulent in your environment. From the complaints, the things you wish would be different,
[12:02] SPEAKER_01: the stressors, the things that keep you up at night, and then like the big pains.
[12:09] SPEAKER_01: Then once we get them down and we can strategize around what we might want to engage with and
[12:16] SPEAKER_02: what we can put off for now. Today's podcast is brought to you by the cooperators. You can count on
[12:24] SPEAKER_02: them to support you and your business with a full range of insurance coverage options. Their
[12:30] SPEAKER_02: products provide the flexibility you want with the protection you expect. To find a cooperator's
[12:37] SPEAKER_02: advisor near you, visit cooperators.ca. A switching gears a bit here. I wanted to talk to you
[12:46] SPEAKER_02: about your book because one of the things that you mentioned in our pre-call was that the changes
[12:54] SPEAKER_02: that happened earlier this year. In a way, we could say that was part of the pain.
[13:01] SPEAKER_02: I allowed you time to get focused in and complete your book. Why don't you share with us a bit about
[13:07] SPEAKER_02: your book, The Science Behind Success, and what is the premise behind it? Getting the book done
[13:15] SPEAKER_01: was a good lesson. Sometimes the world gives you what you need and not what you want.
[13:23] SPEAKER_01: Because we were traveling so much or I was, the halton travel created this space to finally get
[13:29] SPEAKER_01: this done. The science behind success is the model that we use with leaders, the four elements
[13:35] SPEAKER_01: of science, as well as the specific tools we use with leaders to navigate turbulence and
[13:42] SPEAKER_02: deliver meaningful leadership into their world. Can you give us a bit more detail about those
[13:49] SPEAKER_01: pillars and what they entail? The four pillars. So there's the science behind success.
[13:56] SPEAKER_01: When we use the word science and success, people can assume it's one thing. Here's the way we frame
[14:03] SPEAKER_01: it. Science, we use the example of Ignoss Simulvice. A doctor in the 1800s saw a problem. Too many
[14:11] SPEAKER_01: women were dying when they were giving birth. When these women were delivering their
[14:18] SPEAKER_01: giving birth inside these clinics, the death rate was three times higher than working with a
[14:23] SPEAKER_01: midwife, for example. Simulvice obsessed over the solution, proposed it once he found a repeatable
[14:30] SPEAKER_01: solution and he was laughed at. He was committed to an insane assignment. What was this crazy thing he
[14:37] SPEAKER_01: proposed that, hey, all doctors have to do is wash their hands. Of course, that was validated
[14:47] SPEAKER_01: by Louis Pasteur after Simulvice passed on. But why we use that as an example is bad science is
[14:54] SPEAKER_01: when we seek to validate our own ideas, our expertise. Whereas real science is the pursuit of greater
[15:02] SPEAKER_01: understanding. With curiosity seeking to find out if I do this, what will the impact be?
[15:10] SPEAKER_01: And so if science is the pursuit of greater understanding, what is success?
[15:14] SPEAKER_01: Well, most people struggle thinking that success is a destination that when I get to this revenue
[15:22] SPEAKER_01: point, when I get to this senior vice president or CEO role, then I'll have made it. But that is a
[15:31] SPEAKER_01: trap that we call destinationitis. And we use success differently as success is simply progression
[15:38] SPEAKER_01: towards that vision that inspires you. And so we frame that and then use four elements of science
[15:45] SPEAKER_01: as a backdrop to make leadership, culture, influence, make sense. The quick coals notes version of each.
[15:54] SPEAKER_01: The physiology of growth, why no pain means no gain and why that matters. The pseudoccience of
[16:01] SPEAKER_01: medics and behavioral contagion. We've been working with viruses for the last 10 years as a leadership
[16:09] SPEAKER_01: tool. And now we just live in a world of viruses. The next one is epigenetics, the science behind
[16:16] SPEAKER_01: why culture eats strategy for breakfast and what leaders need to know. And then the last one is
[16:23] SPEAKER_01: neuroscience skill acquisition. What are the structures, the simple structures you can use to
[16:28] SPEAKER_01: accelerate your wisdom, your influence and impact inside the organization? Well, it sounds like
[16:35] SPEAKER_02: there is so much depth of material that we could probably spend a couple hours easily talking more
[16:42] SPEAKER_02: about about your book. And I'm wondering for listeners, if if this was something they wanted to
[16:48] SPEAKER_02: learn more about and to pick up a copy, where would they be able to do that Jason? It can visit us
[16:56] SPEAKER_01: level52.ca. There's information on the book. There are some resources you can download
[17:02] SPEAKER_02: and that they can also be in touch with me. Okay, perfect. And we'll make sure at the end of the
[17:07] SPEAKER_02: show to get all of your contact information as well. I'd like to talk with you a little bit more
[17:15] SPEAKER_02: now about your own personal journey as an entrepreneur. As you've built level 62, one of the things
[17:22] SPEAKER_02: that we really like to do for listeners is share stories of how businesses are built,
[17:29] SPEAKER_02: you know, regardless of industry and I'm just curious how long did it take you to build level 52
[17:37] SPEAKER_01: to where it is today? It's taken a very windy road from where I started in 2006, the vision I had,
[17:52] SPEAKER_01: there were peaks and valleys and there was a point in late 2007 where I was like I have to
[18:01] SPEAKER_01: abandon this and I went to apply for jobs. I sought a recruiter and I would I was so in need of a
[18:10] SPEAKER_01: job, some supplemental income to shift this vision to be a side hustle rather than my primary work
[18:16] SPEAKER_01: that I was applying for a job and you'd want to talk about rock bottom. I couldn't even get hired
[18:23] SPEAKER_01: to sell industrial racking for like a $30,000 annual salary. Like I was doing that just to help pay
[18:33] SPEAKER_01: the bills because I had eaten everything up. But it's funny how the world works because the next month
[18:40] SPEAKER_01: I just through connections ended up getting connected to a consultant that needed work and that
[18:48] SPEAKER_01: was extended work for multiple years so I could balance it. And so it's been a roller coaster.
[18:55] SPEAKER_01: I don't know if the peaks and valleys ever stop but the peaks just get a little higher.
[19:01] SPEAKER_02: And sometimes the valleys get a little deeper too.
[19:07] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, that's for sure. Well, I am wondering, you're so heavily focused on leadership.
[19:16] SPEAKER_02: Who is the leader that you would buy or why? The most remarkable leader I have ever worked with.
[19:25] SPEAKER_01: I was during the many iterations of level 52 before level 52 really became level 52. I took a
[19:35] SPEAKER_01: a senior leadership position for a firm down in San Francisco and I got to work with the kind
[19:41] SPEAKER_01: of leader that I aim to be. And her name is Michael Riggs Parche. When you talk like this, this is
[19:50] SPEAKER_01: a woman who gets the balance between the rigor around the business and the rigor around really
[19:58] SPEAKER_01: strong trusting relationships. And so from day one, the way she set the foundation of our relationship
[20:05] SPEAKER_01: to the way she pushed me, believed in me, I hope my kids get to experience a leader like that.
[20:12] SPEAKER_01: And she's been a, she's been the lighthouse for me when it comes to helping establish what is
[20:21] SPEAKER_01: the benchmark for a powerful leader, the kind of leader we need. Oh, that's a wonderful example.
[20:27] SPEAKER_02: Do you have favorite resources or podcasts or books that that either pick you up when you're
[20:36] SPEAKER_02: being a bit of a valley or just that you repeatedly will recommend to others and to clients that you
[20:43] SPEAKER_01: think may be helpful for listeners? There are so many. I'll tell you one of the latest books that
[20:50] SPEAKER_01: is fascinating to me is Upstream by Dan Heath. Just looking at the problems far upstream rather than
[20:59] SPEAKER_01: getting caught into the reactive trap. Two other books that I gift the most. One is the Alchemist
[21:08] SPEAKER_01: by Paulo Quelo, just a great example of process versus destination.
[21:15] SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's a wonderful book. And then another one, regardless if you're a parent or not,
[21:21] SPEAKER_01: I do tend to buy it for every person I know that's about to have kids, but it's called Secrets of
[21:26] SPEAKER_01: Happy Families. And it's by a gentleman named Bruce Filer and it has practical business tools
[21:36] SPEAKER_01: that you can apply to your family and with four kids. That's a great resource. But as far as
[21:44] SPEAKER_01: pick me up, I find my whenever you throw in a podcast or listen to a book on Audible, I like to do
[21:51] SPEAKER_01: it when I run. It's inspiring just learning. New elements of leadership or business tools that
[21:59] SPEAKER_02: can help you navigate the challenges you're facing. As you look ahead to 2021, what's giving you
[22:07] SPEAKER_01: hope right now or what's bringing you joy? What I say to my clients are teammates at level 52.
[22:17] SPEAKER_01: Progress is inspiring. What you focus your attention on expands. If it's where we aren't
[22:23] SPEAKER_01: what happened during COVID, like there's so much we can focus on that's not working that
[22:31] SPEAKER_01: what inspires me is the progress. The progress we made over 2020 with obstacles we never
[22:37] SPEAKER_01: thought would happen. And what we're continuing to do, the book reaching the audience. And so when I
[22:44] SPEAKER_01: look at 2021, I'm inspired at the progress and the momentum that we've created through helping
[22:50] SPEAKER_02: leaders navigate this. You will have stories to tell for the rest of your career, right? And
[22:57] SPEAKER_02: extraordinary circumstances that have definitely tested all of us. Before we wrap up, Jason,
[23:03] SPEAKER_02: I'm just wondering is there anything else that you would like to share with our listeners,
[23:07] SPEAKER_02: either about your work or even a message that you think would really resonate with Canadian entrepreneurs
[23:14] SPEAKER_01: right now? If we look at the story of Ignossimilvice, here's the irony in that whole thing.
[23:23] SPEAKER_01: What he discovered is that the physicians that we're trying to help people were ironically the ones
[23:30] SPEAKER_01: infecting the situation and making it worse. And so the message would be is to step back and look
[23:39] SPEAKER_01: at all of the challenges, the pains that I'm facing. In what way might I be infecting the situation?
[23:46] SPEAKER_01: I think I'm trying to solve. And if you can step into that place of owning your problems,
[23:53] SPEAKER_01: then you can do a lot of things from that place. That is great. Great advice or a challenge,
[24:01] SPEAKER_02: I think for all of us, to take that step back. And often at this time of year, it is a time of
[24:07] SPEAKER_02: reflection as we start to set goals for next year. So I thank you for sharing that and for giving us
[24:15] SPEAKER_02: something to ponder in the weeks ahead. So please tell us where where listeners can connect with you
[24:23] SPEAKER_02: online and how they can get a hold of you if they'd like to learn more about your very important
[24:29] SPEAKER_01: and meaningful work that you're doing right now. Yeah, thank you. They can find me on LinkedIn,
[24:36] SPEAKER_01: Jason Kraus, Jason with a Y, or visit our website that I mentioned before, level 52.ca. They
[24:44] SPEAKER_01: can reach out, get in touch with me there. Any questions about what I've discussed? I'm happy to
[24:49] SPEAKER_02: answer. Great. Well, Jason, I have so enjoyed having you as a guest today. Thank you so much for
[24:55] SPEAKER_02: your time and look forward to connecting again soon. Thank you, Bonnie. It's great to be here.
[25:04] SPEAKER_02: Today's podcast was brought to you by the cooperators, business insurance. They're here to help
[25:09] SPEAKER_02: make sure you and your business are protected today and into the future. Visit cooperators.ca to
[25:17] SPEAKER_02: find a local advisor today.
