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TRANSCRIPTION WITH SPEAKERS
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[00:00] SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Canada's Entrepreneur, where we talk to the entrepreneurs who are making it happen
[00:05] SPEAKER_01: across Canada and deliver the news, trends, knowledge and opinions from entrepreneurs and business
[00:13] SPEAKER_01: influences across the country. Hi everyone, I'm Phil Bliss-Bandran CEO of Canada's Entrepreneur
[00:21] SPEAKER_01: coming to you today from Toronto. Cathy Cown is an entrepreneurial success in marketing
[00:27] SPEAKER_01: communications with more than two decades of it, agency leadership. She now collaborates
[00:34] SPEAKER_01: with nonprofits, agencies and socially conscious businesses. She began her career, her career,
[00:41] SPEAKER_01: actually working for me and then moved to nonprofits and PR agencies, including big brothers
[00:46] SPEAKER_01: of big sisters of Canada, Babishandwick and CGI Group. She founded Cown and Company Communications,
[00:55] SPEAKER_01: a full service marketing communications where she ran for nearly 30 years and led many award-winning
[01:04] SPEAKER_01: campaigns. Her work earned more than 15 industry awards and she was named IABC's Toronto's
[01:12] SPEAKER_01: boutique PR Aises of the Year four times between 2007 and 2017.
[01:21] SPEAKER_01: She now focuses all skills and skills and passives for doing good.
[01:29] SPEAKER_01: She leads integrated marketing communications for nonprofits and corporate social impact programs.
[01:36] SPEAKER_01: Her ongoing goal is to help purpose-driven organisations transform their communications
[01:43] SPEAKER_01: and maximise their social impact. Welcome to Canada's Entrepreneur, Cathy. It's been a while since
[01:52] SPEAKER_01: we worked together, but let's leave that alone. Before we get much deeper, let everyone find out
[02:02] SPEAKER_01: a bit more about you and your entrepreneurial journey. Give us a quick four minute summary.
[02:08] SPEAKER_00: Great. Well, it's so lovely connecting with you again, Phil. It has been a number of years,
[02:13] SPEAKER_00: as you say. Since we worked together once upon a time, I started my own agency, which I ran for
[02:23] SPEAKER_00: about 20 years, specialising in marketing communications for big brands. We worked with a range of
[02:29] SPEAKER_00: brands like Laurel Paris and Jameson vitamins and craft and carer restaurants,
[02:35] SPEAKER_00: food banks, Canada. It was a fantastic experience. We had a small virtual team, which back in the day
[02:42] SPEAKER_00: was innovative. Of course, it's more of the norm, but we won a lot of awards for the work that we
[02:48] SPEAKER_00: had done for our clients and with our clients. My agency was named PR, the ER Agency of the Year,
[02:55] SPEAKER_00: four times over the year, so we had a great deal of success. Then, as you had a business for a number
[03:01] SPEAKER_00: of years, Phil, perhaps you can relate to this, and took a step back. Some of our contracts were
[03:06] SPEAKER_00: ending and I was like, what do I really love about what I'm doing? What gets me excited? What I
[03:11] SPEAKER_00: really loved was the nonprofit work and the corporate social responsibility work that I was doing
[03:16] SPEAKER_00: for some of these clients. We made a bit of a pivot to focus on those areas, which we had started
[03:23] SPEAKER_00: to build up more of that CSR focus, for social responsibility focus, and then COVID-19.
[03:30] SPEAKER_00: So, of course, all the work we had done to build up took a pause and then realized what I
[03:37] SPEAKER_00: wanted to do really was more being independent versus having an agency and the team and all the
[03:42] SPEAKER_00: things that go with that. The first client that I pitched as an independent was the Canadian Mental
[03:49] SPEAKER_00: Health Association York Region. I went in there as a consultant on a part-time gig to be their
[03:56] SPEAKER_00: head of communications, but I loved it so much that I ended up going full-time and being there for
[04:01] SPEAKER_00: three years, which I really loved the team and we kind of applying my entrepreneurial skill and
[04:09] SPEAKER_00: applying my big brand experience were able to really move the needle and create some fantastic
[04:15] SPEAKER_00: results. But I missed those agency experiences. I missed having multiple clients and getting to work
[04:21] SPEAKER_00: in multiple industries. So, last year, I left CMHA and became an independent,
[04:26] SPEAKER_00: I consolved focusing on nonprofits and corporate social responsibility. And so, that's what I'm doing today.
[04:33] SPEAKER_01: So, you know, your work as an employee, not just for me, but for some very big organizations.
[04:43] SPEAKER_01: What's best, you know, why are you still an entrepreneur? What's best, you've been an employee,
[04:51] SPEAKER_01: you've been an entrepreneur. What's your like best about being an entrepreneur?
[04:57] SPEAKER_00: What I like is I like the initiative. I like being able to take an idea and run with it.
[05:06] SPEAKER_00: And sometimes you can do that as an employee. It just depends on the organization and who the
[05:11] SPEAKER_00: leadership is, but that's the thing I like the most is just being able to take that idea and run with
[05:18] SPEAKER_01: it. Okay. What's the greatest challenge you've faced in your business today? I mean, you know,
[05:27] SPEAKER_01: it sounds like you've gone through that situation where you had a bunch of clients,
[05:31] SPEAKER_01: some of them left and you got to make decision-thousands, that's one challenge. But I guess
[05:38] SPEAKER_01: what's the greatest challenge and how did you overcome it? That's a great question.
[05:47] SPEAKER_00: So many challenges.
[05:53] SPEAKER_00: You know, one of one of the challenges, especially when I had my agency,
[05:58] SPEAKER_00: is people, you know, I think having a great team and finding those people and keeping those people
[06:05] SPEAKER_00: is one of the biggest challenges that any entrepreneur faces as an independent consultant. I don't
[06:16] SPEAKER_00: have a recurring issue of, you know, bringing in the right people, keeping the right people and I was
[06:22] SPEAKER_00: fortunate to have an amazing team, who many of them stayed with me for most of the term of the
[06:31] SPEAKER_00: agency, which was almost 20 years. But people are the hearts part. People, people that's interesting,
[06:39] SPEAKER_01: and well, how do you handle those people?
[06:44] SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's a challenge.
[06:47] Speaker UNKNOWN:
[06:47] SPEAKER_00: And so it's interesting, right?
[06:50] SPEAKER_00: Because there's a lot of talk these days about,
[06:55] SPEAKER_00: Gen Z's and how do you manage them?
[06:58] SPEAKER_00: And I've been, I've managed incredible Gen Z's.
[07:03] SPEAKER_00: But I remember I'm Gen X and I remember back,
[07:06] SPEAKER_00: in the day and people would be like,
[07:07] SPEAKER_00: Gen X's are terrible.
[07:09] SPEAKER_00: You can't hire them and they don't want to do anything.
[07:11] SPEAKER_00: Did you just make a face?
[07:13] SPEAKER_00: Did you think that about Gen X's you did?
[07:15] SPEAKER_01: You guys work really hard as Gen X.
[07:19] SPEAKER_01: I never had that view.
[07:22] SPEAKER_00: You were and you were in a, and you were always a great manager,
[07:25] SPEAKER_00: but I've very young business too, right?
[07:28] SPEAKER_00: So I mean, it kind of was designed for youthful people.
[07:34] SPEAKER_00: But to need how you manage them,
[07:36] SPEAKER_00: whether they're, whether they're 20 or whether,
[07:39] SPEAKER_00: whether they're 20s or whether they're in their 50s is, you know,
[07:43] SPEAKER_00: it's about their professional development.
[07:44] SPEAKER_00: I think at the end of the day, if you can tie their personal development
[07:48] SPEAKER_00: to the broader goals of the organization,
[07:51] SPEAKER_00: and if you can have conversations about how you're going to help them achieve
[07:55] SPEAKER_00: the goals that they want to achieve, that's, that's the common meeting ground.
[07:59] SPEAKER_00: That's the success that I've had in managing people is, you know,
[08:03] SPEAKER_00: let's have conversations about how you're going to advance while we advance the business.
[08:08] SPEAKER_01: You know, you're on the business for 20 years.
[08:12] SPEAKER_01: Very successful. Lots of awards.
[08:18] SPEAKER_01: What would you, if you could think about when you started out?
[08:24] SPEAKER_01: What would you say to people were the three major reasons
[08:31] SPEAKER_01: why you were able to build and run it successfully for 20 years?
[08:40] SPEAKER_00: So when I started my agency, I didn't want to start my agency.
[08:44] SPEAKER_00: I called myself a reluctant entrepreneur because it wasn't what I think it wasn't,
[08:50] SPEAKER_00: you know, my plan was I specialize in the technology industry at that point.
[08:55] SPEAKER_00: The tech amount down happened.
[08:56] SPEAKER_00: My agency that I was with got by another agency.
[08:59] SPEAKER_00: I got laid off, but I was interviewing for a gig.
[09:04] SPEAKER_00: I wanted a full time job and I thought I was going to be, you know,
[09:08] SPEAKER_00: ahead of one of the internationally, you can see Centuronto.
[09:11] SPEAKER_00: That was my background.
[09:13] SPEAKER_00: And so I was out interviewing, but as I was interviewing,
[09:17] SPEAKER_00: I had clients, previous clients come to me and say, Hey, can you do this?
[09:21] SPEAKER_00: When I started subcontracting for one of the big agency Centuronto,
[09:26] SPEAKER_00: I was bringing subcontracts in to do work.
[09:29] SPEAKER_00: We were working with Costco.
[09:30] SPEAKER_00: We were working with Loria.
[09:32] SPEAKER_00: We had all this great work, but I was still interviewing for a job.
[09:35] SPEAKER_00: Because in my head, I was like, I want a paycheck.
[09:39] SPEAKER_00: And it wasn't until I think I was on a third interview for a great gig.
[09:44] SPEAKER_00: But I just come from a photo op with global TV and Loria for International Women's Day.
[09:50] SPEAKER_00: And I was in this job interview.
[09:53] SPEAKER_00: And the very kind man looked at me and said, you're not really interested in this.
[09:57] SPEAKER_00: Are you? And I was like, Oh, my God, I'm so sorry.
[10:00] SPEAKER_00: I thought that I wanted this, but as you know, sitting there, I was like,
[10:04] SPEAKER_00: no, this isn't what I want.
[10:05] SPEAKER_00: So I went home to my partner or my husband and said, I think I'm going to try this.
[10:11] SPEAKER_00: I'm going to make a go of this.
[10:13] SPEAKER_00: You know, I've got people working for me.
[10:14] SPEAKER_00: I've got clients.
[10:15] SPEAKER_00: My husband now just sort of like, about time.
[10:19] SPEAKER_00: How did it take you this long?
[10:22] SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I mean, in terms of how I started things up, it wasn't all straightforward in the beginning, for sure.
[10:29] SPEAKER_00: The three things that I think that asked that for success is definitely the people.
[10:36] SPEAKER_00: I was incredibly fortunate to work with some amazing team members.
[10:43] SPEAKER_00: And they're really the ones who created the results that enabled us to keep the clients for as long as we did.
[10:52] SPEAKER_00: I think we had a really unique business model because we were a virtual at a time when agencies weren't virtual.
[11:00] SPEAKER_00: So that enabled us to provide the best value because we didn't have to charge clients to cover our overhead.
[11:07] SPEAKER_00: So they were getting the big agency talent for a fraction of the price, which was a huge advantage for them.
[11:15] SPEAKER_00: Obviously.
[11:15] SPEAKER_00: And then the day we just got results, we were really focused on just the work we did was exceptional.
[11:22] SPEAKER_00: And it tested into that with many of our clients, stayed with us for 10 or 15 years.
[11:28] SPEAKER_00: Because we can in a very competitive business where they were constantly being pitched because everybody wanted to work with those brands.
[11:35] SPEAKER_00: So just continually getting results at a good price, but just blowing away the competition with the results we were getting.
[11:44] SPEAKER_00: I think those are the three main things that enabled us to stay alive as long as we did.
[11:51] SPEAKER_01: So that's really good advice, is it?
[11:54] SPEAKER_01: I mean, so let's think of communications, which is your specialty.
[12:00] SPEAKER_01: And you know, you've just said how you did it at a particular time.
[12:08] SPEAKER_01: What advice would you give somebody an entrepreneur like you, like me, looking to begin to make that leap from, you know,
[12:20] SPEAKER_01: being a good, high, high achieving employee to independence and, you know, and running the wrong thing?
[12:33] SPEAKER_00: So I'm a communications person.
[12:36] SPEAKER_00: So my first piece of advice is always going to be on the communication side of things, which is
[12:42] SPEAKER_00: no, no, your key messages, no, your value proposition.
[12:45] SPEAKER_00: What do you do better than anyone else?
[12:48] SPEAKER_00: And think about it in the context.
[12:51] SPEAKER_00: And I think some of the entrepreneurs that I've worked with and are working with now that one of the challenges is
[12:58] SPEAKER_00: not according to you, but according to who you're trying to sell to.
[13:02] SPEAKER_00: So really put yourself in the shoes of your target audience.
[13:06] SPEAKER_00: And what value will they find in your business and your services?
[13:11] SPEAKER_00: Because sometimes what you want to sell isn't what they want to buy.
[13:14] SPEAKER_00: So really thinking through what do you do better than anyone else?
[13:18] SPEAKER_00: And how can you help your target market?
[13:22] SPEAKER_00: And I, you know, the question always is, you know, think about your target, think about your audience,
[13:27] SPEAKER_00: and think about if they're looking at what you're saying or what you're offering and saying,
[13:32] SPEAKER_00: what's in it for me?
[13:33] SPEAKER_00: That's what you need to answer is, what's in it for them?
[13:36] SPEAKER_00: How are you going to help them?
[13:37] SPEAKER_00: And how can you help them better than all of the other organizations out there who maybe are doing a similar thing to you?
[13:44] SPEAKER_01: It's really good advice.
[13:47] SPEAKER_01: So the fact is really good advice.
[13:50] SPEAKER_01: What's the best piece of advice, you know, from a mentor, whatever that you've received,
[13:56] SPEAKER_01: that you, you know, it's always there.
[14:00] SPEAKER_01: It's always in the back of your head.
[14:04] SPEAKER_00: Can I do two?
[14:06] SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
[14:06] SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
[14:08] SPEAKER_00: So one is that an executive co-shape someone I told him that has really helped me.
[14:19] SPEAKER_00: It's always a yes until it's a no.
[14:21] SPEAKER_00: So I think we come up with a lot of reasons to say no.
[14:25] SPEAKER_00: And sometimes you need to make yourself say yes.
[14:27] SPEAKER_00: There's going to be a point that you're going to have a concrete reason to say no.
[14:31] SPEAKER_00: But until you get to that reason, that concrete reason to say no,
[14:36] SPEAKER_00: then it's a yes.
[14:37] SPEAKER_00: Keep yourself open to opportunity and you can see where it goes.
[14:41] SPEAKER_00: And the other piece of advice, which is a more recent one for me in this new chapter that I'm in,
[14:47] SPEAKER_00: and specializing in social impact communications, is
[14:52] SPEAKER_00: build a life you're excited about.
[14:54] SPEAKER_00: So whether it's your business, your personal life, all of the things, what excites you?
[14:58] SPEAKER_00: And I think that's for me with social impact communications.
[15:01] SPEAKER_00: This I'm excited about how helping nonprofits amplify their social impact and get more
[15:07] SPEAKER_00: out of the work that they're doing.
[15:10] SPEAKER_00: And so I'm bringing that excitement to my work every day.
[15:14] SPEAKER_00: And so that's really guiding a guiding principle for me.
[15:20] SPEAKER_01: So if you were doing, we'll have some fun now, just some quick rapid-far questions.
[15:26] SPEAKER_01: If you weren't doing what you're doing now, and I've been doing all your life,
[15:31] SPEAKER_01: okay, what would you be doing instead?
[15:34] SPEAKER_00: I love the idea of writing cheesy novels, like not like, you know,
[15:43] SPEAKER_00: not like great works of fiction, but like just be good quality beech reads.
[15:49] SPEAKER_00: I think that would be great.
[15:51] SPEAKER_01: And speaking about that, what book are you currently reading?
[15:56] SPEAKER_01: Not this is a reading, but would you recommend to the audience?
[16:02] SPEAKER_00: I've got a few on the go right now.
[16:04] SPEAKER_00: One night just reread was Lean in Vice-Sharon Sandberg, which talks about women in the workplace.
[16:11] SPEAKER_00: And it really, I hadn't read it for a number of years, and I just reread it recently,
[16:16] SPEAKER_00: and had still has a great advice for women in the workplace.
[16:20] SPEAKER_00: So I would highly recommend that.
[16:23] SPEAKER_01: Are you, I can't remember, are you a morning or a night person?
[16:26] SPEAKER_00: I am a night person who is trying to become a morning person, but it's not going well.
[16:36] SPEAKER_01: If you had to pick one word to describe yourself, what would it be?
[16:42] SPEAKER_01: And just as important, why would you choose it?
[16:47] SPEAKER_00: My word would be a hyphenated word, which would be true blue.
[16:54] SPEAKER_00: And the reason I would choose that as many years ago, we did this big project for long comb,
[16:59] SPEAKER_00: and it was profiling a thousand amazing women in Canada, and at the time, I chose the word integrity.
[17:07] SPEAKER_00: There are so many people who chose the word integrity, it kind of lost its power.
[17:11] SPEAKER_00: So true blue is a phrase my dad always says, you know, it just, it means good, it means integrity,
[17:20] SPEAKER_00: and I think for this new chapter of my life where I'm focusing on social impact,
[17:25] SPEAKER_00: it's just helping to do more good in the world.
[17:30] SPEAKER_01: That's it, that's, I haven't heard that one before. That's really interesting.
[17:35] SPEAKER_01: What's keeping you up at night?
[17:38] SPEAKER_00: Funding for nonprofits.
[17:41] SPEAKER_00: I work with a lot of nonprofits and you know,
[17:45] SPEAKER_01: Off time.
[17:45] SPEAKER_00: It is a really tough time.
[17:48] SPEAKER_00: And so for me, trying to think of ways to help them increase their revenue and their fundraising,
[17:54] SPEAKER_00: especially amidst all the chaos that's happening right now, that's definitely keeping me up at night.
[18:00] SPEAKER_01: Well, Kathy, it's been great seeing you.
[18:04] SPEAKER_01: Been a lot of fun.
[18:08] SPEAKER_01: And as usual, you're a very concise and you thought about this.
[18:15] SPEAKER_01: So that it was some great input in our conversation.
[18:21] SPEAKER_01: Thanks for coming on the canvas on the internet.
[18:23] SPEAKER_00: Thank you for having me.
[18:24] SPEAKER_00: Pleasure to speak with you again.
[18:27] SPEAKER_01: Well, that was fun for me.
[18:28] SPEAKER_01: You know, just so good seeing Kathy and you know, realizing how accomplished she is.
[18:37] SPEAKER_01: And she has such great communication insights for entrepreneurs that are thinking about making
[18:48] SPEAKER_01: going independent in the communications business.
[18:52] SPEAKER_01: I'm Phil Bliss.
[18:54] SPEAKER_01: Don't forget to subscribe to our newsletter on our website.
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[19:07] SPEAKER_01: Thanks for listening to Canada's entrepreneur.
[19:11] SPEAKER_01: Where you meet the entrepreneurs that drive the Canadian economy.
[19:16] SPEAKER_01: See you soon.
