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TRANSCRIPTION WITH SPEAKERS
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[00:00] SPEAKER_01: It's VanCouver's podcast on the Canada's podcast network.
[00:05] SPEAKER_01: Hello everyone, I'm Angela Faye,
[00:09] SPEAKER_01: Hubb Builder and co-host of British Columbia's Podcasts.
[00:12] SPEAKER_01: Part of the Canada's podcast network,
[00:15] SPEAKER_01: your source for great insights from entrepreneurs from across Canada.
[00:19] SPEAKER_01: We talked entrepreneurs who are making it happen here,
[00:21] SPEAKER_01: so you can listen, discover and engage.
[00:24] SPEAKER_01: I am super excited to have Grant Lawrence with me today
[00:27] SPEAKER_01: from Valhalla Angels.
[00:29] SPEAKER_01: We're going to learn more about the company soon.
[00:31] SPEAKER_01: But a little bit above Grant,
[00:33] SPEAKER_01: he has 22 or more successful years in the software industry,
[00:38] SPEAKER_01: both in startups and establishing companies,
[00:40] SPEAKER_01: holding a number of different senior positions in sales and marketing,
[00:44] SPEAKER_01: and building and managing teams in the years of strategic alliance,
[00:47] SPEAKER_01: direct indirect sales,
[00:49] SPEAKER_01: and B2B environments in particular,
[00:51] SPEAKER_01: domestically and internationally throughout North America, Europe and Asia.
[00:56] SPEAKER_01: Grant has participated in an IPO,
[00:59] SPEAKER_01: and I confess that I had to actually ask what I know what it means,
[01:03] SPEAKER_01: but what does the actual words mean?
[01:05] SPEAKER_01: Is the initial public offering?
[01:07] SPEAKER_01: Of course, that means going public on,
[01:09] SPEAKER_01: in this case, the public stock market, like the MNAS deck.
[01:12] SPEAKER_01: And with that, the immense amount of challenges that go with going public.
[01:19] SPEAKER_01: So he said quite a broad range of it,
[01:21] SPEAKER_01: experience in the investing field,
[01:23] SPEAKER_01: and now as founder of Valhalla Private Capital,
[01:28] SPEAKER_01: president of Valhalla Angels, Kelona,
[01:32] SPEAKER_01: and co-president of Valhalla Angels Vancouver.
[01:36] SPEAKER_01: He is definitely in the ecosystem,
[01:38] SPEAKER_01: building the tech community,
[01:40] SPEAKER_01: and while he's also mentoring and guiding startups through business operations and sales.
[01:44] SPEAKER_01: So Grant's awesome, super amazing experience coming to the podcast.
[01:48] SPEAKER_01: We look forward to hearing from you.
[01:51] SPEAKER_01: But first of all, tell us a little bit about the journey.
[01:53] SPEAKER_01: How did we end up here?
[01:56] SPEAKER_00: Well, the startups were all in Ottawa
[02:00] SPEAKER_00: for the first few that I was joined on.
[02:02] SPEAKER_00: The one that went public and assisted me in that,
[02:04] SPEAKER_00: it was the beginning of my career in the software space.
[02:08] SPEAKER_00: And it was good enough to have the executives that said,
[02:11] SPEAKER_00: give us a hand here, and I did,
[02:12] SPEAKER_00: I got down to New York's Wall Street a couple times,
[02:16] SPEAKER_00: helped up along the way.
[02:18] SPEAKER_00: And then the next one, the RFCFO,
[02:21] SPEAKER_00: a few years later after the IPL
[02:24] SPEAKER_00: and successfully running the business,
[02:26] SPEAKER_00: went over to another one and asked me to join them and help out there.
[02:30] SPEAKER_00: And then the third one,
[02:31] SPEAKER_00: in Ottawa was a couple of guys that had decided to move from being a service company
[02:35] SPEAKER_00: to a product company.
[02:37] SPEAKER_00: And there was about eight or ten of us that all came in at the same time,
[02:40] SPEAKER_00: and took positions to help grow that company,
[02:43] SPEAKER_00: and that got bought by a firm in California.
[02:46] SPEAKER_00: So that was my journey on the startup side.
[02:50] SPEAKER_00: Then moved out to the West Coast, here in Colona area,
[02:55] SPEAKER_00: and did some volunteer work for seven years to help the community.
[02:59] SPEAKER_00: And it was good, you know,
[03:00] SPEAKER_00: lucky enough to have some folks ask to give them hands,
[03:04] SPEAKER_00: a startup for this relinquent, another one in Sweden.
[03:07] SPEAKER_00: And then the Angel Group asked if I could join.
[03:10] SPEAKER_00: And you know, there's nine founders of the Hall of Private Capital,
[03:14] SPEAKER_00: and then I'm in the Angel Group, which is there's five of us,
[03:17] SPEAKER_00: helping to provide that ecosystem,
[03:19] SPEAKER_00: build community, and help out startups, and help out investors.
[03:22] SPEAKER_01: Super cool. I mean, I'm having this kind of mental image of the seven Silicon Valley founders
[03:28] SPEAKER_01: that, you know, we're expanding.
[03:30] SPEAKER_01: So there's a little bit of story, similar story like that in Colona, is there not?
[03:34] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's quite a few startups here that have had some very good exits.
[03:39] SPEAKER_00: And we're just going through something called Angel Summit right now,
[03:42] SPEAKER_00: which is bringing together companies from mostly from Western Canada,
[03:46] SPEAKER_00: and they're going through the process of learning to be an investor ready,
[03:52] SPEAKER_00: learning to what are the steps to do diligence,
[03:55] SPEAKER_00: which can be quite intense for a startup.
[03:58] SPEAKER_00: And then at the end of it, they're going to win a big purse about 170K.
[04:02] SPEAKER_00: On the flip side, the investors is about half of the investors are experienced angels,
[04:07] SPEAKER_00: and the other half are new angels.
[04:08] SPEAKER_00: So the goal there is to have them rub shoulders, work in teams,
[04:13] SPEAKER_00: go through the due diligence process from an investor point of view,
[04:16] SPEAKER_00: and come out at the end of it as new angel investors,
[04:19] SPEAKER_00: and they have to decide whether this is their path going forward.
[04:23] SPEAKER_00: But ultimately, we hopefully have, you know, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten new angel investors,
[04:29] SPEAKER_00: which means there's more access to capital for the startup,
[04:31] SPEAKER_00: so building the community on both sides.
[04:33] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's pretty exciting and intense.
[04:35] SPEAKER_01: Well, and I'm totally curious, what is there a typical problem of a new angel investor?
[04:45] SPEAKER_00: Well, the Canadian government dictates that they have to be either eligible,
[04:48] SPEAKER_00: which is a definition of your wealth or a credit, which is the higher definition.
[04:53] SPEAKER_00: And so any private company that wants you to invest,
[04:57] SPEAKER_00: you have to claim that you are one of those two,
[04:59] SPEAKER_00: other than if you're a friend and family of the founders,
[05:02] SPEAKER_00: which you can still invest in, even if you're not accredited or eligible.
[05:05] SPEAKER_00: So accredited definition in Canada is you've earned 220 grand a year for the past two years,
[05:12] SPEAKER_00: or you've got a million dollars in equity outside of your home,
[05:15] SPEAKER_00: and then there's other deafness.
[05:16] SPEAKER_00: There's probably another eight options that you can select,
[05:19] SPEAKER_00: which one works for you, you know, what do you and your spouse have,
[05:22] SPEAKER_00: is joint assets or income.
[05:24] SPEAKER_00: So there are other ways to qualify for that.
[05:27] SPEAKER_00: And then eligible is just a slightly step down from that.
[05:29] SPEAKER_00: So you can still invest. And of course, the big head around is the family and friends with the founders.
[05:35] SPEAKER_01: Right. Okay. So accredited is the, that's the criteria and that's a federal.
[05:41] SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
[05:42] SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
[05:42] SPEAKER_00: Yeah. Yeah. If you type in the credit investor, Canada,
[05:45] SPEAKER_00: you'll see the definition will come up.
[05:47] SPEAKER_00: Cool.
[05:48] SPEAKER_01: And then the, and the wealth thing that's a different profile.
[05:52] SPEAKER_00: Now, the wealth is just one of the definitions are qualified as a credit.
[05:55] SPEAKER_00: Okay. Yeah.
[05:55] SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
[05:55] SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
[05:56] SPEAKER_01: Very good. Do you think we need more angel investors in Canada?
[06:00] SPEAKER_00: Yeah. They play a critical role between the first round of funding,
[06:04] SPEAKER_00: which is friends and family and the founders.
[06:07] SPEAKER_00: So once those have been maxed out,
[06:10] SPEAKER_00: your credit cards maxed out as a founder.
[06:14] SPEAKER_01: You're on a credits, you've done.
[06:16] SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
[06:17] Speaker UNKNOWN:
[06:18] SPEAKER_00: Then where do you go to next?
[06:20] SPEAKER_00: You can't jump to the bank.
[06:22] SPEAKER_00: There are typically not going to fund or touch.
[06:24] SPEAKER_00: There's no assets yet for us.
[06:26] SPEAKER_00: Let's say a SaaS company.
[06:28] SPEAKER_00: And the venture capital is a VCC is looking for a little more traction,
[06:32] SPEAKER_00: a little more stability.
[06:34] SPEAKER_00: The banks are, you know, there's BDC as well,
[06:36] SPEAKER_00: which will come in earlier than one of our big banks.
[06:40] SPEAKER_00: The big banks are making changes.
[06:42] SPEAKER_00: So they're getting a little bit more.
[06:43] SPEAKER_00: A viable for the, you know, founders to go to,
[06:46] SPEAKER_00: but they're also saying I want to see a monthly rather Korean revenue of,
[06:49] SPEAKER_00: you know, 60, 80, 100 grand.
[06:51] SPEAKER_00: Well, startups don't have that revenue.
[06:54] SPEAKER_00: So that's the gap where the angels are coming in.
[06:57] SPEAKER_00: And recently we've seen a trend that have joined as members for us of venture capitalist fund fund managers that are early stage.
[07:06] SPEAKER_00: We've had one joined from Toronto, one from Montreal, one from Vancouver,
[07:10] SPEAKER_00: and one that's from China as the source of money,
[07:13] SPEAKER_00: but they're in Vancouver as well.
[07:15] SPEAKER_00: So we've recently got four managers.
[07:16] SPEAKER_00: Wow.
[07:17] SPEAKER_00: I mean, looking because they want to either one of them,
[07:20] SPEAKER_00: I believe one or two of them will actually invest at the same stage as angels.
[07:24] SPEAKER_00: The other ones want to create a relationship and see the progress because the companies will come back multiple times.
[07:29] SPEAKER_00: And go, here's what we did with your money last time.
[07:31] SPEAKER_00: Here's the milestones we met.
[07:33] SPEAKER_00: Here's the hurdles that we struggled through.
[07:35] SPEAKER_00: And here's now our new valuation.
[07:37] SPEAKER_00: And here's the money that we're requesting today as investment to go forward to the next milestones in our growth.
[07:44] SPEAKER_01: Interesting. Well, and sorry if I can dig a little bit here.
[07:46] SPEAKER_01: This is interesting for me. It's new for me and I'm sure it's going to be new for some listeners.
[07:50] SPEAKER_01: But so in that in that angel investor profile, you've got maybe just the,
[07:57] SPEAKER_01: the, I'll call it the passive investor, the person that wants to sit here's my money.
[08:01] SPEAKER_01: I don't want to return on investment.
[08:02] SPEAKER_01: You've got the active ones I'll call them, which are they want that relationship.
[08:06] SPEAKER_01: They want to maybe.
[08:08] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's a good definition.
[08:10] SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
[08:11] SPEAKER_01: Give me an idea of what kind of ROI that a passive investor can expect.
[08:19] SPEAKER_00: So if I can jump into the types of investors for one more second.
[08:23] SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
[08:24] SPEAKER_00: So the, we have a wide range of people that have joined angel that,
[08:28] SPEAKER_00: that members are amazing because we're looking for people that want to give back in some fashion,
[08:32] SPEAKER_00: not only provide capital.
[08:34] SPEAKER_00: So about 70, 75% of our members are pass founders.
[08:37] SPEAKER_00: So they do understand they can empathize, they go, hey, somebody gave me a hand,
[08:42] SPEAKER_00: they can ask good questions.
[08:43] SPEAKER_00: Maybe they don't know the industry that the new founders that are pitching are from,
[08:47] SPEAKER_00: but they understand operations, they can understand metrics,
[08:50] SPEAKER_00: and they can give some good advice.
[08:52] SPEAKER_00: So they can end up being on the board of directors, advisory board,
[08:56] SPEAKER_00: they can make introductions, help with networking, provide some guidance and advice.
[09:01] SPEAKER_00: So some of them actually there are thesis for investing is I only invest.
[09:04] SPEAKER_00: If I can play a role others are going, here's my check, call me in six months, right?
[09:10] SPEAKER_01: So many interest check.
[09:12] SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
[09:13] SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
[09:13] SPEAKER_00: So, so four startups, we see anywhere from a, you know, maturation and getting to a liquidity event is going to take three, five, seven, going on 10 years.
[09:24] SPEAKER_00: So investors recognize that and they are wanting to ensure that there's a good trip going on.
[09:31] SPEAKER_00: And what I mean by that is you're going to be in the same boat going the same direction with the founders for the next five, seven, ten years.
[09:39] SPEAKER_00: So there's that that interplay of personalities and trust each other and then try to get integrity becomes key.
[09:46] SPEAKER_00: You know, one of this sort of test litmus test for investors, what I take a call midnight from this founder on Friday night.
[09:53] SPEAKER_00: Right.
[09:54] SPEAKER_00: Great.
[09:54] SPEAKER_00: Great.
[09:54] SPEAKER_00: If you say, yes, then you know, you're in the right boat with the right people and you're going to have, you know, they'll be ups and downs for sure.
[10:02] SPEAKER_00: But you're going to be, you know, on a journey together for that amount of time.
[10:06] SPEAKER_01: So the response thinking about that, well, I've got your back concept, right?
[10:10] SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
[10:11] SPEAKER_00: Then communication becomes critical.
[10:14] SPEAKER_00: The founders have to be good enough to reach out and talk about, okay, nothing's going right today.
[10:18] SPEAKER_00: Or stuff is going really good.
[10:22] SPEAKER_00: But basically you cannot come to the 11th hour and ask if, you know, your investor is to go, I need help.
[10:28] SPEAKER_00: I can't meet payroll next week.
[10:30] SPEAKER_00: What?
[10:31] SPEAKER_00: I can't react and, you know, that amount of time.
[10:34] SPEAKER_00: So that communication becomes really critical.
[10:36] SPEAKER_00: But when we turn point of view, there's different, different structures to deal.
[10:42] SPEAKER_00: So if you're doing debt venture money, that's really alone.
[10:46] SPEAKER_00: So you can, you can get your quarterly investment payments.
[10:49] SPEAKER_00: If you're doing a convertible note, you may be converting the three years down the road.
[10:54] SPEAKER_00: And typically you're not getting an interest.
[10:55] SPEAKER_00: That interest will be swung back into.
[10:58] SPEAKER_01: Okay.
[10:58] SPEAKER_00: Into operations.
[10:59] SPEAKER_00: There's.
[11:00] SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
[11:00] SPEAKER_00: So you get, you know, the base principle plus the interest converted.
[11:04] SPEAKER_00: It could become, could come back as, as interest for sure.
[11:07] SPEAKER_00: That's not uncommon as well.
[11:09] SPEAKER_00: It could be a structured deal where you're going to get preferred shares and common shares.
[11:14] SPEAKER_00: And once the company is in revenue, they may back by back preferred shares.
[11:17] SPEAKER_00: So you could have all your capital back in three to five years, but you still own common shares.
[11:22] SPEAKER_00: So there's multiple ways that it can be structured.
[11:25] SPEAKER_00: But of course, we're looking for that big liquidity event.
[11:28] SPEAKER_00: So the longer you, the money's within the company to hire the return, you're looking for, you know, five times, three times, ten times.
[11:34] SPEAKER_00: I don't think we're expecting huge unicorns up here to be okay, here's 500 times a return, 300 times a return.
[11:42] Speaker UNKNOWN:
[11:42] SPEAKER_00: Those are the exceptions.
[11:43] SPEAKER_00: People are looking for singles and doubles and triples, which has become more common.
[11:49] SPEAKER_01: And just what would be a, but there's probably.
[11:54] SPEAKER_01: It's probably rhetorical question because the public isn't an answer, but what would be a minimum amount that somebody should consider, you know, if you're going to.
[12:03] SPEAKER_01: You're going to be a member of Valhalla.
[12:07] SPEAKER_01: What do you want to return? What would you be starting with as an angel investor?
[12:11] SPEAKER_00: So for new investors, what we recommend to them is to get in due diligence, learn who the other investors are.
[12:19] SPEAKER_00: Don't write checks immediately.
[12:20] SPEAKER_00: You know, recognize patterns, understand what the process is.
[12:26] SPEAKER_00: And then start to invest in areas where you feel comfortable and you're investing money where you're saying, hey, if I lose this money, I'm not at risk at my, you know, hurting my family or my lifestyle, I will have you.
[12:36] SPEAKER_00: Right. So that's that's sort of the starting point.
[12:38] SPEAKER_00: So people can come, founders can come and be asking, I need to raise $2 million.
[12:44] SPEAKER_00: Or we have arranged anywhere from 150 to 200 K to $2 million.
[12:48] SPEAKER_00: So we're in that area, that sweet spot.
[12:51] SPEAKER_00: And the angels may say, okay, well, here's the minimum check size is 50 K, but I'm willing to put in 10 or 15.
[12:58] SPEAKER_00: So in that case, they're going to group together, create a whole company and go, here's one check for 200 K from 20 of us.
[13:04] SPEAKER_00: Right. So that's that's one way.
[13:07] SPEAKER_00: Others are very much independent and they'll make their own decisions.
[13:10] SPEAKER_00: They don't have to get together with the rest of the members and say, you know, here's a check for 500.
[13:16] SPEAKER_00: So it really does range on the individual, the thesis that they have for their investment thesis and approach.
[13:25] SPEAKER_00: So there is no categorically, here's, here's a group of angels and they all have the same. No.
[13:31] SPEAKER_00: Okay.
[13:32] SPEAKER_00: All individuals and someone will have good friends across that so they may be working together.
[13:37] SPEAKER_01: And how, like I'm, I'm, of course, you know, fast tracking to dragons, Dan, right?
[13:44] SPEAKER_01: It's because we all know it. Thanks to CBC.
[13:49] SPEAKER_01: And the, do the angel investors typically say, listen, you know, here's $100,000. I want to share the company and or but adheres how,
[13:58] SPEAKER_01: how I can leverage my network or my expertise to contribute.
[14:03] SPEAKER_00: Correct.
[14:04] SPEAKER_01: Often happens.
[14:05] SPEAKER_00: Yes. And very often we want to ensure as the founders are going through our deal screen process, they'd be able to get in front of the angel investors that you're here for cash.
[14:15] SPEAKER_00: Everybody knows that.
[14:16] SPEAKER_00: So what else are you asking for? Please ask for that. So that the network of angels in there say, oh, I need to be introduced to these four people.
[14:24] SPEAKER_00: Does anybody know those four people?
[14:25] SPEAKER_00: Yes.
[14:26] SPEAKER_00: I just, I just had that recently from one of the founders. There was a CEO of a company in England. I didn't know the person.
[14:32] SPEAKER_00: But you know, he put it out to like, I guess, 50 or 100 people.
[14:35] SPEAKER_00: So I'm hoping that one of them does can, can make that crucial introduction.
[14:40] SPEAKER_00: So definitely the networking asks the support and request for assistant asked.
[14:46] SPEAKER_00: Yes, for certainly.
[14:47] SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
[14:48] SPEAKER_01: Okay. So now I'm totally curious. So Grant, when you're sitting in front of an investor, what's your, what's your offer?
[14:54] SPEAKER_01: Where's your unique skill set and network of influence?
[15:00] SPEAKER_00: So I'm actually one of the investors.
[15:03] SPEAKER_00: And so my, the most often calls and questions that I'm dealing with is founders calling up me.
[15:09] SPEAKER_00: So already today I've had two companies that have requested, how can we get in front of the angel group?
[15:14] SPEAKER_00: Are we ready to get in front of the angel group? What's your ask? What's your value?
[15:17] SPEAKER_00: What's your way? So I'm helping them go through what the process is.
[15:20] SPEAKER_00: So if a company comes, we have one of them came to me and said they need to raise $30 million.
[15:25] SPEAKER_00: And I said, okay, well, how long is that going to last you?
[15:27] SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's for five years. So well, an angel investors don't invest that way.
[15:31] SPEAKER_00: They're looking for milestones.
[15:33] SPEAKER_00: So if you can, you can break that up into chunks of, hey, I need 300 grand today.
[15:37] SPEAKER_00: That's going to last me eight months. And here's the milestones.
[15:40] SPEAKER_00: I'm going to come back for the next, you know, million.
[15:43] SPEAKER_00: That's what we're looking for. So we're actually providing guidance to the startup founders to help them along this journey.
[15:50] SPEAKER_00: And with, with the mentoring that can come from our, our membership or a, a, a, angel group or some of the, the, the, the, the partners, as well as the train that we do.
[15:59] SPEAKER_00: We actually show them how do you build a capital plan? What is your strategy for that?
[16:05] SPEAKER_00: And what does that mean for you for delusion or potential exits in the future?
[16:11] SPEAKER_00: And what the, what type of money when it comes in are the ties that expectations of that money.
[16:17] SPEAKER_00: So friends and family, well, you may have awkward dinners or Christmas.
[16:23] SPEAKER_00: Right?
[16:23] SPEAKER_01: Suddenly getting charcoal in your Christmas stockings.
[16:26] Speaker UNKNOWN:
[16:27] SPEAKER_00: So it's a different one. Like how, how much do diligence is your mom going to do when they go, yeah, here's some money, right?
[16:33] SPEAKER_00: But if that money doesn't come back, they go, okay.
[16:38] SPEAKER_00: Right versus angels who have set expectations based on what you've promoted to be done. And then, thanks.
[16:44] SPEAKER_00: They have like, you better pay the interest back. You may get 12 months free with no interest. You got the money.
[16:50] SPEAKER_00: But they're expecting their interest back.
[16:53] SPEAKER_00: So depending on what type of capital you're taking, there's expectations there. And you just have to be, you know, a lot of startups founders aren't aware of that necessarily.
[17:03] SPEAKER_00: So they have to be, we have to train them on. What does that mean when you take VC money? What does that mean? You're on a rocket ship now.
[17:09] SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
[17:10] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, and I think this is one of the fun parts of me for this interview is, is, there's this perceived.
[17:21] SPEAKER_01: And I say definitely perceive this perceived wall or this, you know, profile that the, oh, they're, they're angel investors.
[17:29] SPEAKER_01: Like I can't ask for angelic help yet because, you know, I'm not quite sure if, if I'm ready, right? This, this, and I wouldn't even so much is to say it's weird.
[17:40] SPEAKER_01: It's really just you don't know what you don't know.
[17:43] SPEAKER_01: And, and right as is, if I could turn around and say to, to four entrepreneurs, I know some locally who are in manufacturing, you know, real estate commercial real estate building, you know, tech.
[17:58] SPEAKER_01: Who really, and I can't have to talk into grant. It's like, you know what, I think you're ready.
[18:04] SPEAKER_01: You know, I think you might be ready at the very least pick up fun and have a conversation.
[18:08] SPEAKER_00: Yeah. And I would say it's doing that homework. You're, you're right. You know, hey, you look like you're ready.
[18:14] SPEAKER_00: But what, what does a haul invest in? Right. Right. Where's their sweet spot? Where's the sweet spot for the VCs where if you go across Canada with other angel groups, where they invest in there's some that are dedicated just to impact investing.
[18:27] SPEAKER_01: What does that mean impact investing?
[18:31] SPEAKER_00: So impact investing is saying, I'm going to put my money into companies that are going to make a difference to the world.
[18:36] SPEAKER_00: Or the local community, you know, they're, they're in clean tech, they're in green tech, they're helping, you know, say developing countries, get better access to power lights, education, you know, something that's right.
[18:50] SPEAKER_00: They feel that they're passionate about. Right. So there's the dedicated groups that just do clean, sorry, just do impact investing.
[18:59] SPEAKER_01: And what does Valhalla, what's your, what's your good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good.
[19:03] SPEAKER_00: So we're pretty agnostic.
[19:06] SPEAKER_00: We'll see anything.
[19:08] SPEAKER_00: We'll accept, you know, people coming into, founders come into us and saying, here's what we do, except for pure extraction.
[19:15] SPEAKER_00: So we don't invest in oil and gas, pumping paper, etc.
[19:20] SPEAKER_00: Unless it's technology to help those industries.
[19:22] SPEAKER_01: Okay.
[19:23] SPEAKER_00: Okay.
[19:23] SPEAKER_00: And we don't invest in real estate similarly, unless it's technology.
[19:27] SPEAKER_00: So there is property tech.
[19:29] SPEAKER_00: So to speak real estate tech that we've, we've seen and we've invested in.
[19:33] SPEAKER_00: So the other one is the stage.
[19:36] SPEAKER_00: So companies come in there at the product stage is just about done or is done.
[19:41] SPEAKER_00: And then they've got some sort of traction that traction could be revenue. It could be downloads.
[19:46] SPEAKER_00: Could be letters and tent MOUs.
[19:48] SPEAKER_00: So there's a wide range of what traction is defined as.
[19:53] SPEAKER_00: And then the sort of outlier to all this is products that take a long time of human trials.
[20:01] SPEAKER_00: So if there is a medical device or pharmaceutical device.
[20:05] SPEAKER_00: And then the, the, the angels are angel group typically doesn't invest in it.
[20:10] SPEAKER_00: If those human trials are just starting because that could be seven, eight, nine, eight.
[20:14] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's long haul.
[20:15] SPEAKER_00: Right. So if they come back and say, hey, we got the FDA approval.
[20:18] SPEAKER_00: We got Kennedy and health approval.
[20:19] SPEAKER_00: We're good to go.
[20:21] SPEAKER_00: Then that's when we'll,
[20:22] SPEAKER_01: That's the trigger.
[20:22] SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
[20:22] SPEAKER_00: That's when they could, you know, they'll get the higher chance of getting some money.
[20:27] SPEAKER_01: Well, just taking, taking the conversation a little bit higher.
[20:30] SPEAKER_01: Where do you see Canada as a whole?
[20:35] SPEAKER_01: Carving out in niche when it comes to.
[20:38] SPEAKER_01: You know, on the back of angel investing.
[20:40] SPEAKER_01: Is there any particular sector that you think we are either doing now and where we should be doing?
[20:47] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's, there's, I think it's quite regional. So Vancouver has got some really good tech startup to companies there to have done well.
[20:54] SPEAKER_00: We've seen some good exit exits. There's some areas in the garment space.
[20:59] SPEAKER_00: You know, garment technology is is growing. You know, the what type of materials should be used in garments.
[21:06] SPEAKER_00: So we were seeing that.
[21:08] SPEAKER_00: Northern Alberta. There is good artificial intelligence.
[21:12] SPEAKER_00: There's a good center up there for that, which is.
[21:15] SPEAKER_00: So it's Edmonton. I'm sorry, not way north, but.
[21:20] SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
[21:20] SPEAKER_01: I grew up something Calgary. So it's pretty far north.
[21:24] SPEAKER_01: But actually central Alberta right. Yeah.
[21:27] SPEAKER_00: So we're seeing pockets across Canada.
[21:30] SPEAKER_00: And there's a very good study that you can pull up that's created by NACO, which is the National Angels Capital Organization.
[21:38] SPEAKER_00: So I believe the website's NACO Canada.
[21:41] SPEAKER_00: Maybe it's dot CA or dot org.
[21:44] SPEAKER_00: And they're they're an industry representative for angel groups.
[21:48] SPEAKER_00: So as a.
[21:50] SPEAKER_00: As a supporting group, we try to report back to them through surveys of our members.
[21:56] SPEAKER_00: What have you invested in and what exits have happened and provide that to them so they can gather that across Canada.
[22:01] SPEAKER_00: And if ideally affect policy.
[22:04] SPEAKER_00: So that the Canadian government goes like, Hey, here's how we're going to support innovation.
[22:08] SPEAKER_00: Here's a good how we're going to help founders and angels move forward.
[22:11] SPEAKER_00: So whatever that could be tax tax breaks for investing in early stage companies.
[22:16] SPEAKER_00: Right.
[22:17] SPEAKER_00: Or could be here's some money to help build innovation in those startups.
[22:22] SPEAKER_00: And we have lots of programs already.
[22:24] SPEAKER_00: You know, I wrap NRC to my tax with the.
[22:27] SPEAKER_00: With the universities and colleges to give backs for doing research and development as a tax tax check back to you.
[22:36] SPEAKER_01: Is there any interest in attracting foreign investment to Canada through the angel investment network.
[22:42] SPEAKER_01: And if so, what would be our unique value proposition there?
[22:46] SPEAKER_00: So that that again is.
[22:48] SPEAKER_00: All these questions are going to be depends.
[22:50] SPEAKER_02: Okay.
[22:51] SPEAKER_00: So if the founder says they're looking for money that is we'll call it smart money.
[22:56] SPEAKER_02: Okay.
[22:57] SPEAKER_00: So smart money is somebody that can not only give you money, but they can help move the needle and bringing you forward.
[23:04] SPEAKER_00: So you know, a lot of founders want smart money.
[23:07] SPEAKER_00: So I may not be the right founder to go and help with a property tech company.
[23:12] SPEAKER_00: So they may say grant.
[23:12] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we can give some money, but you know, you're not the right fit for us.
[23:16] SPEAKER_00: We want somebody who's got this huge real estate investment portfolio experience where somebody say, hey, I've got B2B enterprise sales.
[23:24] SPEAKER_00: You know product here that they go, okay, I'm the right person to help out with that.
[23:29] SPEAKER_00: You know, so my money would be looked at if the founder is looking for this again as a little bit more higher level for them.
[23:35] SPEAKER_00: Because they go with that person can help me move forward in our structure, perhaps with introductions, et cetera.
[23:42] SPEAKER_00: So foreign money could be looked at as just, okay, it's just cash.
[23:47] SPEAKER_00: And it's not smart money.
[23:48] SPEAKER_00: So it really depends on what the founders are looking for.
[23:51] SPEAKER_00: Because they have to go on that journey for seven to 10 years.
[23:54] SPEAKER_00: Right.
[23:55] SPEAKER_00: Right with that other other group in there.
[23:58] SPEAKER_00: And they want to have help along the way.
[24:00] SPEAKER_01: And I'm just wondering about the whole opening access to trade routes.
[24:07] SPEAKER_01: So I am manufacturing company here and I see potential to export my, you know, my oxbox to, you know, on shipping tenors to Asia.
[24:17] SPEAKER_01: Right.
[24:17] SPEAKER_01: You know, if could we pick up the phone and say, hey, grant, you know, if any angel investors in Asia that would not only be money, but they'd be smart money because I want to help them open up some doors for me.
[24:29] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and there's definitely the Vancouver economic group.
[24:33] SPEAKER_00: You know, the one that's run by Vancouver, they do that. They have a lot of interaction with, with Asia.
[24:40] SPEAKER_00: You know, contacts, of course, in China, Hong Kong, and so forth.
[24:44] SPEAKER_00: And then we've got a number of our members.
[24:47] SPEAKER_00: And I've had, I've just had to reach out just this week. A fellow that moved from cloning to Honduras.
[24:52] SPEAKER_00: And they've got some amazing manufacturing setup.
[24:55] SPEAKER_00: So it's a hardware. So if one manufacturer, they can, they can do this. So if somebody says I want to get to Southeast, sorry, to Central America, South America, and do manufacturing there.
[25:07] SPEAKER_00: Well, you know, here's, here's a resource of people that could do that for you.
[25:10] SPEAKER_00: So, so definitely there is contacts that we can help point them to do.
[25:14] SPEAKER_00: We don't know them all know, but we have a good, good leads of please say, hey, you know, go, go point over here and try, try reaching out to these people.
[25:22] SPEAKER_01: When you reference, Neko, which I think is an awesome resource, I'll check it out after today. Is there like a conference or anything that if you're, you know, even intrigued a little bit about angel investing that a company founder can go to and maybe meet multiple angel investors to find the right one.
[25:40] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's a good point. So last year, Neko ran their annual event. They go by region. So they brought it out to Alberta and asked us to host it.
[25:51] SPEAKER_00: So it was a joint event with Neko and their counterparts in the US. So the ACA American Capital Association. I think it is.
[26:00] SPEAKER_00: I'm sure the acronym for that one. And so there was their Northwest group. So we had the Americans up here. We had the Canadians from across Canada and allowed investors to your rub shoulders without the startups and other investors and allowed startups to get into a crowd and see that it was also with another program.
[26:20] SPEAKER_00: Another so as three conferences and one there's another one on innovate. I think it's all our innovation. And that's running again this summer in Calgary. So if you want to go to the Neko site and see where they're running it, the next location across Canada.
[26:33] SPEAKER_00: So from a local point of view for our four chapters, Edmonton Calgary, Clona and Vancouver, you can just go to our about how I angels calm site and ask for a guest seat as a founder.
[26:46] SPEAKER_00: So we set aside a number of limited number of guest seats. So they can actually sit in before they need to raise ideally they're looking to raise in three to four months and go through what is an angel investment form look like.
[26:58] SPEAKER_00: And how is it run and then to see what the pitches happen. So it's a series of four pitches, 10 minutes each with 10 minutes Q&A and then all those founders leave.
[27:10] SPEAKER_00: And then it's an angel only discussion. So these guests founders get to sit down on the angels only discussion and actually see what takes place now we take we take notes for that.
[27:21] SPEAKER_00: And we have a summary recording everything so the founders when they come back in they actually get the notes.
[27:29] SPEAKER_00: Wow.
[27:30] SPEAKER_00: And then we point them to here's the angels that have stated an interest go talk with them during the social time. So we really want to create an interaction between the founders and the angels and allow them to have discussions live there, but also have follow up discussions and get the feedback because we're trying to help those founders get better and better and better.
[27:50] SPEAKER_01: That's a fantastic opportunity. So just going back to now you personally are based in Kelowna that.
[27:56] SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes, how long have you been in Kelowna.
[28:00] SPEAKER_00: I moved from Ottawa 15 years ago. So since 2005.
[28:05] SPEAKER_01: It's a little warmer in Kelowna.
[28:07] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, little less humus.
[28:10] SPEAKER_00: And a little less buggy.
[28:12] SPEAKER_00: I haven't seen a horse white here yet.
[28:15] SPEAKER_01: I'm kind of excited about the fact that you've got different, you know, your four chapters, if you like.
[28:21] SPEAKER_01: Can you just reiterate those again?
[28:24] SPEAKER_00: Yes, certainly so Edmonton and Calgary. So that's our Alberta chapters and then Vancouver and Kelowna for BC and there's other chapters opening up.
[28:34] SPEAKER_01: So do you find that the way that business is done? So maybe the culture, the, the idiosyncrasies, the subtleties are different for community.
[28:51] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, if you look at the Calgary location, there's a lot of oil and gas people there, right?
[28:59] SPEAKER_00: Okay, not so much in Edmonton, but there's still that influence.
[29:03] SPEAKER_00: If you look at Kelowna, well, what do you think about Kelowna? Do you think of sunshine? You think of outdoor sports? You think of perhaps retirement?
[29:10] SPEAKER_00: So there's a lot of wealthy people that have come here, moved here, and then now they want to give back to the community.
[29:17] SPEAKER_00: So they may not be from, they may be from Alberta, they could be from the coast, they could be from outside.
[29:22] SPEAKER_00: There could be some refugees coming up from the States as Trump will got voted in. So we've had some of that.
[29:29] SPEAKER_00: And then out in Vancouver, it all seems to be new people that have moved there as well.
[29:35] SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
[29:36] SPEAKER_00: So there is, there is a personality with each of those cities for sure.
[29:40] SPEAKER_01: Well, and I think that's, I think that's part of the magic to of maybe the angel investing is, is you find a community or you want to invest in the community as those people can help broker that those nuances, right?
[29:56] SPEAKER_01: Because how you do business, even just thinking about products that, you know, I lived in Australia for seven years and products that do well in Australia, may or may not do well in Canada, or they'll do great in Vancouver, but maybe not so much and white horse.
[30:10] Speaker UNKNOWN:
[30:12] SPEAKER_01: And having that local intelligence.
[30:15] SPEAKER_01: I think I see as one of the benefits of potentially hooking up with an angel investor.
[30:21] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, definitely. And on top of that, you're looking for people that have international experience. So strictly talking from a software site.
[30:30] SPEAKER_00: You know, Canada, you know, the companies are with represented two to five percent of our revenue. So you can look at Canada as a growth area as a staging area as a test area and then to expand out because of course, south of the borders, you know, one of the biggest consumers and buyers of tech.
[30:48] SPEAKER_00: And then start to move into other areas. And of course, a lot of the firms that are doing SaaS models, I don't have barriers, right? They don't have brick and mortar to set up. They may not have manufacturing to set up. So it's how they reach in these different potential customers in different time zones, different languages, different cultures.
[31:06] SPEAKER_00: And they can start off locally and get that under their belts. And then they can expand some jump right into international because they've targeted that. But finding that product fit and match with the market can be an experiment before they go, we got it. People are just starting to buy quicker, easier faster and then taking off.
[31:24] SPEAKER_00: So having the local angels here that have international experience, we just had some that have moved here from Germany.
[31:30] SPEAKER_00: And they were they were running billion dollar companies in Germany. So somebody that's got that experience to help you out.
[31:37] SPEAKER_00: What is the answer is yes. Yes.
[31:40] SPEAKER_01: And then how we'll figure out the how.
[31:42] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and he's already jumped he's already jumped into a company to help out like, wow, awesome.
[31:47] SPEAKER_01: I think I have a question about if you can wave a magic wand and, you know, suddenly reduce a piece of say legislation or or red tape that would accelerate the angel investing movement in Canada. What, what would you eliminate?
[32:10] SPEAKER_00: Oh, geez.
[32:12] SPEAKER_01: Magic wand, magic wand, not not worry about having to do what would what is one of the biggest barriers or constraints to more money circulating in the in the angel investing field.
[32:26] SPEAKER_00: That's a tough one because I know it's not so much the angels is what the founders have to deal with for the angels. It's what are the incentives.
[32:37] SPEAKER_00: So and that seems to be provincially driven. So we have, you know, eligible companies in BC that if they're defined as eligible and the founders of applied for and being accepted by the BC government, you can get 30% of your money back right away from you.
[32:52] SPEAKER_00: And that's different across each of this, the communities, each of the provinces.
[32:59] SPEAKER_00: If there was money that was put into say more angel groups to help with the type of training that we do, then that might be able to accelerate some of the founders experience going forward as well.
[33:12] SPEAKER_00: But there's a huge community out there trying trying to do that as founders institute. There's accelerators, accelerators, there's incubators. They're trying to help.
[33:22] SPEAKER_00: So I can't think of one piece of, you know, legislation that would change maybe some of the taxes for startups that they get a little bit of a tax more of a tax break on that.
[33:33] SPEAKER_02: Okay.
[33:33] SPEAKER_00: There is a, you know, the founders need to go out and hunt for that non-deludive income from grants and tax returns and so forth.
[33:40] SPEAKER_01: Okay. Cool. So I feel like I'm missing a little bit of who is grant. So just, you know, tell me a little bit of, do you have a motivational quote on your computer or your wall or something that gives us some insight on, you know, what motivates you?
[33:54] SPEAKER_00: I think what motivates me the most is having a founder come back three months later, six months later, go, you know, that little tip he gave that saved me time effort, pain, and it helped us accelerate us that when they, when they come back and volunteer that without, you know, unsolicited, they go, yes, that was killer.
[34:13] SPEAKER_00: And we got a lot of that actually this weekend with the training that was going on where we said, okay, ready, we want you to do your 10 minute pitch tomorrow.
[34:22] SPEAKER_00: They all know we learned so much to stay our 10 minute pitches being revamped totally.
[34:28] Speaker UNKNOWN: Right.
[34:29] SPEAKER_00: So they just came away saying, wow, we learned learned a lot and see them and do that and helping them mature and not have to go down through some cul-de-sacs or big bumps or holes in the future.
[34:41] SPEAKER_00: It's really open their eyes and we need, I think we need more of that. So I would love to see some more mentoring taking place from experience, you know, founders experienced investors.
[34:54] SPEAKER_01: And what what described your day for me, you're you're in Colona, there's it, I wake up in New York in the morning kind of thing, what what what keeps you fit.
[35:04] SPEAKER_00: I worked out seven days a week, but it rotates, you know, there is one day of yoga slash stretching, there's there's hiking, I try and get some cardio in, I do two sports in the evenings a week and then I do high intensity interval training just because I'm trying to reduce the amount of time that I'm working out.
[35:21] SPEAKER_00: So I got it down to 30 minutes a day doing that plus trying to walk around and I really try and follow the blue zones, which is no favor seen that but it's a measurement of people in five or six areas around the world that have lived healthy lives well past their 80s.
[35:37] SPEAKER_00: There's only six.
[35:38] SPEAKER_01: I do not know if that it's called blue zone.
[35:40] SPEAKER_00: Blue zones, yeah.
[35:42] SPEAKER_00: So it's a big study that's been going on for a long time, probably 20 years now. And so they've got what are the seven things that are common among those groups in there, there's a group in Japan, a group in Costa Rica, one in California, one in Sardinia, so there's nothing common about they all have different totally backgrounds, cultures, religions, food.
[36:01] SPEAKER_00: So if their food's all different, what is it that they're they're doing to have a healthy meaningful life and surviving without dementia, kicking in without problems with their bodies kicking in, so I try and follow that to some degree, which is hard little ones on cloud around.
[36:19] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's a really good.
[36:21] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
[36:24] SPEAKER_00: And just just keep inactive. So my day will look like, you know, some exercise calls with startups today already.
[36:31] SPEAKER_00: And then this this afternoon there's there's events for you, the show.
[36:36] SPEAKER_00: The angel summit that's that's being run. We're doing due to a job and so we're talking with founders there.
[36:41] SPEAKER_00: And we have thankfully we have a culmination of both the UBCO finalists, which is next Thursday in Cologne and it's how angels actually doing all the judging for that will be a fun event.
[36:54] SPEAKER_00: And then the week later is the finals for the angel summit.
[36:58] SPEAKER_00: So the we get to see 10 minute the final 10 minute pitches, we go back into a situation room.
[37:04] SPEAKER_00: And we argue with we argue and convince each other for an hour and a half of why we think which company deserves the deal.
[37:11] SPEAKER_00: Then there's also all sorts of side deals that come out of that. The people, you know, that that was the winner, but I really like these two companies. I am going to invest in them as well.
[37:19] SPEAKER_01: That's so much fun.
[37:21] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I only have it on my bucket list now to come. Is there any like public opportunity to well, maybe a founder seat one day and what I'd like to.
[37:30] SPEAKER_00: We'll be doing a nonconference as we call it. We do want every three years. So we're targeting September for that. That'll be in Cologne this time. We had an bam.
[37:39] SPEAKER_00: Last time and they'll be open to members and to non members as well.
[37:44] SPEAKER_01: Cool. There's. I think I think a podcast needs to be there. Don't you think?
[37:49] SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
[37:50] SPEAKER_01: On conference in Cologne.
[37:52] SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
[37:53] Speaker UNKNOWN: And then we're going to see a lot of people who are in the wine region. What can you go wrong?
[37:54] SPEAKER_01: You can't go wrong.
[37:57] SPEAKER_01: Awesome. Well, and granted. Do you have any kind of last sort of words of wisdom for our audience keeping in mind that many of them might be angel investors or there and lots of founders here.
[38:10] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that you'd love to leave them.
[38:12] SPEAKER_00: Certainly. So so for founders, I would say don't be shy to ask.
[38:17] SPEAKER_00: You know, always an ask for guidance. You know, once you're trying to do your capital raise and you're asking for money.
[38:25] SPEAKER_00: People have their back up a little bit, but you can go and ask for guidance. Say, you know, here's what we're working. What do you think? What would you do different?
[38:31] SPEAKER_00: How would you you change this? Because you want to create that long term relationship and just be.
[38:35] SPEAKER_00: Just be worried that your your fund your raising capital is going to take could take up to six months.
[38:42] SPEAKER_00: So you ready to create a relationship.
[38:45] SPEAKER_00: Yep.
[38:46] SPEAKER_00: And and for new investors, it's you know, get out into the community where whichever one you're in, you know hunt for those other angel investors or angel groups.
[38:56] SPEAKER_00: Figure out if that angel group does business like you want to do it. So for instance, our group we're looking at giving back a lot to the community.
[39:03] SPEAKER_00: So that's why we're judging for you. You know, participating in the angel summit. We've got open on college calls us up and says, hey, is there a third and second year students finishing off their business cases.
[39:12] SPEAKER_00: Can you come and help out with the their final presentations.
[39:16] SPEAKER_00: So we're always looking to give back into the community.
[39:20] SPEAKER_00: So just figure out what what angel group works for you if you want to do that and getting engaged really. There's lots of tech out there. There's lots of exciting startups.
[39:29] SPEAKER_01: Super off. So after today, grant, what is the best way to connect with you?
[39:35] SPEAKER_00: Okay. So email would be great. It's my Valhalla private capital email, which is just grant dot Lawrence at Valhalla private cap dot com.
[39:49] SPEAKER_00: And then you know, phone is, I don't know what you want the phone number like you're prepared to give your phone number to 30,000 active listeners. Let's do it.
[39:58] SPEAKER_00: Sure. It's 250 766 525 zero.
[40:03] SPEAKER_01: And I'm going to get you to repeat that one more time.
[40:05] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, 250 766 525 zero.
[40:09] SPEAKER_00: And of course, you can go into Valhalla angels dot com. And there's places in there to register to request a seat or to go through the pit, pitch application or there's a course spots for angels also say,
[40:23] SPEAKER_00: and I'm interested to get involved with this.
[40:26] SPEAKER_01: Awesome. Well, I have learned a ton today that it was not expecting it. I think I will benefit lots of communities and lots of founders and lots of entrepreneurs.
[40:37] SPEAKER_01: So grant, I really appreciate your time for joining us here today with Canada's podcast.
[40:42] SPEAKER_00: Thank you. Angie is a pleasure. And if there's any other questions in the future, feel free to ask.
[40:46] SPEAKER_01: Sounds great. Thanks, Grant. All right. You're welcome. Bye.
[40:50] SPEAKER_01: Thanks for taking the time today to listen to British Columbia's podcast on the Canada's podcast network.
[40:57] SPEAKER_01: We hope you enjoyed the show today. Make sure you sign up for our newsletters and write a review for us on iTunes.
[41:03] SPEAKER_01: Connect with us on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn or at Canada's podcast dot com.
[41:10] SPEAKER_01: You can check out what other entrepreneurs are doing across the country.
[41:13] SPEAKER_01: I'm Angela Faye. See you next time.
