Surrounding myself with good people – Toronto, Canada’s Podcast

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[00:01] SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Canvas Podcast.
[00:12] SPEAKER_01: Only there.
[00:13] SPEAKER_01: I'm Phil Bliss, founder and CEO of Canvas Podcast.
[00:16] SPEAKER_01: Coming to you today from Toronto.
[00:19] SPEAKER_01: We're going to meet Shane Murphy, CEO of owner, Adventure of RBX, that makes it easier and
[00:26] SPEAKER_01: more affordable for businesses to incorporate, register and comfortably handle ongoing legal
[00:32] SPEAKER_01: compliance.
[00:34] SPEAKER_01: Shane has almost a decade of experiences alloyered and initially co-founded Founded Technologies
[00:39] SPEAKER_01: in 2017 as an innovative or-in-mont technology platform that provided businesses with
[00:46] SPEAKER_01: the ability to automate sophisticated legal tasks such as in corporations, equity management
[00:53] SPEAKER_01: and legal agreements.
[00:55] SPEAKER_01: Founded Roads are acquired by owner in 2020.
[01:00] SPEAKER_01: We're Shane moving initially into the role of COO and now into the role of CEO.
[01:11] SPEAKER_01: So Shane, welcome to Canvas Podcast.
[01:14] SPEAKER_01: A great to meet you.
[01:16] SPEAKER_01: So as I normally do and I've only listened to some of the podcasts, before you get too
[01:21] SPEAKER_01: deep into conversation, why do you first of all tell us a bit about who Shane Murphy is,
[01:26] SPEAKER_01: what you do and how you got here basically.
[01:30] SPEAKER_01: And yeah, three minutes.
[01:33] SPEAKER_00: That's good, I'm here.
[01:34] SPEAKER_00: Thanks so much for having me.
[01:35] SPEAKER_00: First of all, Phil, if I've really enjoyed getting to know the show and you do a great
[01:38] SPEAKER_00: job for entrepreneurs in Canada.
[01:40] SPEAKER_00: So great to be here and great to meet you too.
[01:42] SPEAKER_00: So yeah, Shane Murphy, CEO of owner.
[01:46] SPEAKER_00: Owner is a venture that operates within RBC or RBCX, which is really the part of the
[01:53] SPEAKER_00: Roa Bank of Canada, which is mandated to drive innovation and new initiatives.
[01:59] SPEAKER_00: So what we do at owners, we operate a bit like our own startup within the broader bank
[02:03] SPEAKER_00: and we help entrepreneurs register or incorporate a business.
[02:09] SPEAKER_00: So I'll start by that and then I'll get to your question, which is, you know, who
[02:13] SPEAKER_00: mind where do I come from.
[02:14] SPEAKER_00: So today I'm operating an online portal where entrepreneurs can register or incorporate
[02:21] SPEAKER_00: their business, but it comes from my background as a lawyer.
[02:25] SPEAKER_00: I practiced corporate law for about six or seven years after finishing law school at McGill.
[02:31] SPEAKER_00: And what I found from practicing law was that it's a really antiquated industry.
[02:38] SPEAKER_00: It's probably maybe the most traditional career path you could possibly be on is being
[02:42] SPEAKER_00: a lawyer.
[02:42] SPEAKER_00: And I saw so many areas of law, which were just very ripe for disruption.
[02:48] SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I still have the utmost respect for the legal profession and lawyers.
[02:52] SPEAKER_00: I'm still a member of the bar, but there's so many ways that technology can be a value
[02:58] SPEAKER_00: add to the legal process, especially for small businesses, startups, entrepreneurs, because,
[03:05] SPEAKER_00: frankly, they don't have the money to pay for people like myself who were six or seven years
[03:10] SPEAKER_00: at law school every year.
[03:12] SPEAKER_00: I was charging more on an hourly rate.
[03:14] SPEAKER_00: There just had to be a better way for these early stage businesses to get that sort of legal
[03:19] SPEAKER_00: support they needed.
[03:21] SPEAKER_00: So the path to get from A to B was convoluted and there was a lot of trial and error and pivoting
[03:27] SPEAKER_00: and I can get into all the different iterations.
[03:29] SPEAKER_00: But the short version has started a company, which was called Founded Technologies.
[03:35] SPEAKER_00: We found that sweet spot in helping startups get off the ground, getting them incorporated
[03:40] SPEAKER_00: and getting a proper minute book set up.
[03:42] SPEAKER_00: Some of the early stage financing documents helping them create those.
[03:46] SPEAKER_00: So it wasn't me as a lawyer anymore.
[03:48] SPEAKER_00: It was me operating a technology platform with a team of software engineers helping
[03:53] SPEAKER_00: with really automated and streamlined these processes.
[03:57] SPEAKER_00: Eventually, we developed a commercial relationship with RBC because they realized that the minute
[04:03] SPEAKER_00: you get incorporated, the next question is, how do I open a bank account?
[04:07] SPEAKER_00: Where do I go?
[04:07] SPEAKER_00: So we had that commercial partnership and then the business really took off around early
[04:13] SPEAKER_00: 2020, around the time of the pandemic.
[04:16] SPEAKER_00: A lot of business owners were looking for new services to try online.
[04:21] SPEAKER_00: People really opened to online solutions.
[04:23] SPEAKER_00: The business took off and eventually we came to an agreement with RBC where they would
[04:27] SPEAKER_00: acquire Founded.
[04:29] SPEAKER_00: We merged the two companies together.
[04:31] SPEAKER_00: That was about three years ago.
[04:32] SPEAKER_00: I was working as the chief operating officer in the merged owner entity.
[04:39] SPEAKER_00: I just took over as CEO about four months ago.
[04:42] SPEAKER_00: I'm fairly new in the CEO chair, but still very enthusiastic about the work we do for
[04:48] SPEAKER_00: entrepreneurs in Canada.
[04:52] SPEAKER_01: So you move from practice into a startup in the legal side, technology side of things.
[05:05] SPEAKER_01: And then you know, got snapped up by owner if you like.
[05:11] SPEAKER_01: Aren't you back to having more of a job versus being an entrepreneur if I can ask that?
[05:18] SPEAKER_00: Well, there's certainly a lot more stability when you have the largest in all this bank in
[05:24] SPEAKER_00: the country at your back.
[05:27] SPEAKER_00: But luckily, I've been given enough independence within RBC X and as the leader at owner, that
[05:35] SPEAKER_00: it still feels like a startup.
[05:37] SPEAKER_00: It still feels like I have an ambitious mandate to grow this business.
[05:42] SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
[05:43] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, to be totally frank about it.
[05:45] SPEAKER_00: Running a startup was the most stressful thing in my life that I've experienced because
[05:50] SPEAKER_00: I had the financial stability of a job at a law firm to zero and everything was on me
[05:56] SPEAKER_00: to kind of make sure myself, my partners, my employees could pay the bills.
[06:03] SPEAKER_00: Now, yeah, some of that financial stress is off.
[06:06] SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
[06:07] SPEAKER_00: But then the mission is still there.
[06:10] SPEAKER_00: So as long as the mission is still there, I think that that's enough of a spark that
[06:14] SPEAKER_00: kind of keeps me engaged and excited about this.
[06:17] SPEAKER_01: So maybe we can sort of talk about where you are and getting to see a bunch of entrepreneurs,
[06:27] SPEAKER_01: entrepreneurial businesses in what are fairly demanding times.
[06:34] SPEAKER_01: And some sort of perspective you can give entrepreneurs out there in terms of, you know,
[06:49] SPEAKER_01: what that entrepreneurial climate, if you like, is from, you know, never though.
[06:59] SPEAKER_01: Yes, it may be a very venture innovative side of RBC, but it's still RBC.
[07:07] SPEAKER_01: So where are you guys looking at it and seeing things that are positive versus negative, if
[07:15] SPEAKER_01: you like?
[07:16] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's a really good question because I think it almost asks, what are we talking about
[07:21] SPEAKER_00: when we talk about entrepreneurship and startups and small business?
[07:25] SPEAKER_00: We use these terms sort of interchangeably, but there's a big difference between the typical
[07:31] SPEAKER_00: small business owner and a scaling tech company.
[07:35] SPEAKER_00: And I'm really here to serve Canadian small business owners.
[07:39] SPEAKER_00: I think it's the niche we've found like we've, at owner, we've incorporated or registered
[07:44] SPEAKER_00: but 135,000 businesses across Canada today.
[07:49] SPEAKER_00: So it's an impressive number, but most of those businesses are not scaling tech companies.
[07:55] SPEAKER_00: We're talking about a lot of trades people.
[07:58] SPEAKER_00: So you know, you're electrician, your plumbers, important entrepreneurs.
[08:03] SPEAKER_00: They're there, a thousand percent.
[08:05] SPEAKER_00: These are, these are Canadian entrepreneurs.
[08:07] SPEAKER_00: That's the core of what we're talking about.
[08:10] SPEAKER_00: So to kind of get back to your question, like these business owners, these solo printers,
[08:15] SPEAKER_00: micro businesses, they've been through hell and back in the last three years, navigating
[08:19] SPEAKER_00: COVID, it's never been easy to run a small business, but it's been incredibly challenging.
[08:26] SPEAKER_00: And I think it's added to their skill set and their adaptability in the last few years.
[08:32] SPEAKER_00: So we recently ran a survey across the country of entrepreneurs.
[08:37] SPEAKER_00: We surveyed about a thousand entrepreneurs as sort of a check-in.
[08:41] SPEAKER_00: And the funny thing is despite the current macro environment with high interest rates,
[08:47] SPEAKER_00: inflation, everything that they're dealing with, there's a surprising amount of optimism right
[08:53] SPEAKER_00: now that we're seeing with these entrepreneurs and going back to the small business owner of
[08:58] SPEAKER_00: micro businesses. I think they just, they really feel like they've been through the worst of it.
[09:03] SPEAKER_00: And now despite all the challenges, they are ready to turn the corner.
[09:06] SPEAKER_00: They see light at the end of the tunnel and are really ready for to grow and thrive and
[09:13] SPEAKER_00: invest into their businesses.
[09:14] SPEAKER_00: So from our temperature check, entrepreneurs are doing okay now because they've
[09:21] SPEAKER_00: partially because they've been through so much, it couldn't get any worse, but they are saying that
[09:26] SPEAKER_00: they've found the way to adapt to the challenges of inflation and high interest rates.
[09:31] SPEAKER_00: So we think that the next couple of years will be good for entrepreneurs and having
[09:37] SPEAKER_00: technology tools and learning new skills to operate online,
[09:41] SPEAKER_00: kind of modernizing their businesses through COVID has really given them that boost to kind of
[09:46] SPEAKER_00: move to a hopefully some stability in the coming years.
[09:49] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I mean, can you, can you with the sort of the present, you've got such a large
[09:55] SPEAKER_01: picture of the present, can you give us some perspective of what, you know,
[10:01] SPEAKER_01: what do you see about, you know, that's exciting about the future of entrepreneurship and Canada,
[10:06] SPEAKER_00: obviously. Yeah, I think the, they're kind of build on what I was saying about new tools and
[10:15] SPEAKER_00: just that it's never really been easier to start a small business. So there is something that's
[10:20] SPEAKER_00: like a golden age, a launch, entrepreneurship happening because, you know, you cannot, with all
[10:26] SPEAKER_00: these tools, ranging from, you know, square for payments or, you know, QuickBooks for bookkeeping
[10:32] SPEAKER_00: and of course, like owner for incorporation, there's just like so many ways that you can quickly
[10:37] SPEAKER_00: and affordably set up and manage your business. So I think now that those tools have become
[10:42] SPEAKER_00: kind of mainstream in a way where they used to be niche and reserved for tech companies and tech
[10:48] SPEAKER_00: people, having that democratized in a way is making people more confident in starting a business
[10:56] SPEAKER_00: and entrepreneurship becoming a little bit more like a profession and something where I think
[11:01] SPEAKER_00: you know, kind of the old days, it was like the ambitious, your project, prodigal, sons and daughters
[11:10] SPEAKER_00: would be the doctors, the lawyers, the engineers, I think now it's very, very mainstream, very
[11:16] SPEAKER_00: acceptable and encouraged to start a business, you know, give it a shot and that, that I think is
[11:22] SPEAKER_00: a cultural shift that comes partially just from how quickly and easily you can spin up a business and
[11:28] SPEAKER_01: get started. Canada's podcast, the number one podcast for entrepreneurs, by entrepreneurs.
[11:36] SPEAKER_01: You tell me a bit about, you know, owner because it's interesting, I mean, you've said
[11:43] SPEAKER_01: you help people start up, do you do any more than that? I mean, you know, you know, you're
[11:47] SPEAKER_01: a parent is a financial powerhouse, so do you connect the docs? I guess that's what I'm saying.
[11:58] SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, you know, that's a lot of the reason why RBC was so interested in this, getting into
[12:04] SPEAKER_00: this business of registration and incorporation because it's almost like a series of questions
[12:09] SPEAKER_00: that small business owners ask themselves. Yeah, first of all, like, what is my business? What am I
[12:14] SPEAKER_00: going to do? Second of all, how do I incorporate a register that business? Third might be, where am I
[12:19] SPEAKER_00: going to bank that business? How do I open a bank account for it? So that's, you know, to answer that
[12:25] SPEAKER_00: question, that is our streamlined account opening process. So once you incorporate on owner, we have a
[12:31] SPEAKER_00: clear pipeline inside the platform where you can open your RBC banking account, but we're always
[12:38] SPEAKER_00: pushing ourselves to go deeper and get to more innovative solutions. So we just recently, like,
[12:44] SPEAKER_00: six weeks ago, roughly launched owner insurance, which is a sub product within the owner platform,
[12:51] SPEAKER_00: this is a way for a small business owner to get an instant quote for insurance for their
[12:56] SPEAKER_00: business, customized for the type of business they're operating. So we matched them to the
[13:02] SPEAKER_00: right insurance product, give them a quote for that insurance product on the spot. That might not
[13:08] SPEAKER_00: sound revolutionary when I say it aloud, but it was actually really hard for early, early micro businesses
[13:15] SPEAKER_00: and small businesses to get insurance in the past because insurance agents and brokers weren't
[13:20] SPEAKER_00: really catering towards this market. They were sort of like, wait till you have a clear or risk profile,
[13:27] SPEAKER_00: a couple of years of operating, then we'll talk about the right insurance product for you, but we can
[13:30] SPEAKER_00: now match you with insurance the day you incorporate to get started. So it's a huge boost for entrepreneurs,
[13:38] SPEAKER_00: and that's why I think insurance is again, just it's just one more example of where we can go.
[13:43] SPEAKER_00: The next question, we can go down the list of things that entrepreneurs will be asking as they
[13:48] SPEAKER_00: grow and develop their business. I think we'll be offering more products in the future than match those
[13:53] SPEAKER_00: needs. So owners more than just getting started, it's about making your business more successful and
[13:59] SPEAKER_01: getting the support we can offer. What's the greatest challenge you faced in, as you stepped into
[14:11] SPEAKER_00: entrepreneurship, if you like? There's such a steep learning curve. You can study this stuff
[14:19] SPEAKER_00: academically, all you want, and you still won't know exactly how the market is going to respond to
[14:27] SPEAKER_00: your business once it's up and running. So I'll provide an anecdote, but the first business I launched
[14:35] SPEAKER_00: quit my job as a lawyer, and I, with my two business partners who are close friends and still work
[14:41] SPEAKER_00: with me, but we launched, effectively it was Uber for lawyers. We called them law scout, but it was
[14:48] SPEAKER_00: a very simple interface where you can describe the service that you're looking for, a legal service,
[14:55] SPEAKER_00: be it in corporation, a shareholder agreement, whatever it is, and we would match you with a lawyer
[15:00] SPEAKER_00: who would deliver that service for a fixed fee rate. That's what I thought was going to be my business
[15:06] SPEAKER_00: on day one. It was a marketplace. There's inherent challenges to building a marketplace business.
[15:13] SPEAKER_00: You have the whole chicken and egg issue about do you have, do you have enough lawyers? Do we have
[15:18] SPEAKER_00: enough consumers? But anyway, that was where I started, and where I ended up, where am I seven or
[15:27] SPEAKER_00: eight years later, I'm now operating the business within RBC, something I never anticipated at all
[15:33] SPEAKER_00: when I started that sort of Uber for lawyers idea. So I think really, I can't emphasize enough
[15:41] SPEAKER_00: the idea of the journey of the entrepreneur, the idea that you have to seize opportunities that
[15:48] SPEAKER_00: are presented to you as they come up. And your question was more about the challenges, but I think
[15:57] SPEAKER_00: the challenge is in a lot of ways to let go of what you thought was your brilliant idea and the way
[16:01] SPEAKER_00: you thought you were going to thrive. Being able to put that aside and saying, no, there's an opportunity
[16:06] SPEAKER_00: here that is that's where the long-term journey is taking me and I'm going to pursue that opportunity.
[16:12] SPEAKER_00: It's a fine balance between being focused and committed to your plan, but also being able to
[16:19] SPEAKER_00: adapt when opportunities arise. So if you get that fine balance wrong, you can either be pursuing
[16:27] SPEAKER_00: every little idea that comes off and comes your way and then you have no core value or core business
[16:34] SPEAKER_00: or if you're too focused on what you thought was your initial plan, you don't get to pivot and adapt
[16:38] SPEAKER_00: and seize opportunities that arise. So that was the challenge in a long-winded way. That's what
[16:45] SPEAKER_00: I've kind of come to to realize you have to navigate that. Well, again, you're looking at a lot of
[16:51] SPEAKER_01: new business at the moment and leave out the own piece of it. What advice would you give an entrepreneur
[16:59] SPEAKER_00: looking to start a business in 2023-24? Yeah, it is a tough time to start a business, I think, that
[17:08] SPEAKER_00: that is for sure. I feel like I almost started out at a time where startups were just catching on and
[17:18] SPEAKER_00: Airbnb and Uber were sort of new ideas and there was a lot of enthusiasm. There's a little bit more
[17:23] SPEAKER_00: skepticism about startups specifically. So I'll talk mainly about tech startups where I've kind of
[17:29] SPEAKER_00: spent most of my time. So when I started out, you honestly didn't need to think about making money.
[17:36] SPEAKER_00: There was quite a free flow of venture capital at the time, which was just based on growth, growth,
[17:44] SPEAKER_00: growth. So now that is completely out of fashion. You can't walk into a room with a grow, grow, grow mindset
[17:56] SPEAKER_00: without thinking about core income for your business, profitably. You need to have these discussions
[18:04] SPEAKER_00: earlier. So I think really, and especially with the uncertainty we're seeing right now,
[18:10] SPEAKER_00: if I was to start a business from scratch at the moment, I would look at making sure that the
[18:16] SPEAKER_00: business was sustainable early, even at the expense of growth. I would prove it on a sustainability
[18:23] SPEAKER_00: basis and then grow with caution just because I'm not going to make any predictions about the
[18:29] SPEAKER_00: economy, despite seeing signs of optimism. I would say make sure that business is sustainable,
[18:34] SPEAKER_00: then the right people will notice and you can talk about growth at that point. But I wouldn't
[18:38] SPEAKER_00: jump ahead to that grow at all costs mindset because there's too much uncertainty and you'll be
[18:45] SPEAKER_00: just too dependent on outside money and potentially too diluted to even succeed. Should you come to
[18:51] SPEAKER_01: the point where you could exit that business? What's the best piece of advice that you've received?
[18:58] SPEAKER_01: You know, that you keep going back to kind of thing.
[19:04] SPEAKER_00: Very good question. I hate to be stumped that there's
[19:14] SPEAKER_00: okay. There's really not, there's not one single piece of advice I can say I go back to
[19:21] SPEAKER_00: all the time. I think usually I think surrounding myself with good people, creative people and
[19:30] SPEAKER_00: you know, optimistic people has been probably the key and they're telling me things all the time
[19:34] SPEAKER_00: that they kind of motivate me to keep me going. That's a great thought. I mean, it's really
[19:40] SPEAKER_00: important thought I think. So, you know, I've been very lucky on that since day one to have to find
[19:46] SPEAKER_00: find not necessarily formal mentors that they people often look for a mentor who will like
[19:51] SPEAKER_00: save them somehow and provide wisdom from from from above. But it's really just about being in an
[19:58] SPEAKER_00: environment where there's there's smart, interesting creative people who can inspire you and I've
[20:03] SPEAKER_00: always managed to from being in a co-working space by serendipity surrounded by good people have
[20:10] SPEAKER_00: great co co-founders, early stage employees who were just like on board from day one.
[20:17] SPEAKER_00: That's been a real real benefit to me apart from any nuggets of advice I can come up with at the
[20:24] SPEAKER_01: moment. Okay, let's move on to some lighter questions. Okay. Which I ask everybody, what book are
[20:33] SPEAKER_01: you currently reading or listening to or whatever and what what if you read recently that you
[20:42] SPEAKER_01: would recommend and there's something that's definitely worth a read. Great questions. So,
[20:49] SPEAKER_00: I'm currently reading a book called Scaling People. This is I actually read quite a lot of fiction,
[20:56] SPEAKER_00: but this is this is a very on topic because it's a book Scaling People by Claire Claire Hughes Johnson.
[21:03] SPEAKER_00: It's formerly a stripe for people operating officer to strive for quite some time as they were
[21:11] SPEAKER_00: giving them business going. So, it is the single most practical book I think I've ever read about
[21:17] SPEAKER_00: running an organization and as the title says Scaling People really as your organization grows and
[21:24] SPEAKER_00: you have more people, how do you keep a team aligned, how do you set goals that make sense, how do you
[21:30] SPEAKER_00: integrity and credibility as a leader. Really, really enjoying this this book very much like almost
[21:37] SPEAKER_00: like a textbook, you can just kind of flip through various chapters and get suggestions for things
[21:41] SPEAKER_00: like how to run it one on one with an employee you feel like he's underperforming. How do you
[21:47] SPEAKER_00: like what are some strategies for do that we all end up in that situation. So, a great book for you
[21:52] SPEAKER_00: and I wouldn't say I agree with 100% of it, but just to be able to pick that up and brainstorm
[21:57] SPEAKER_00: all this with someone who's been through it all it seems like has been great. So, that's currently
[22:06] SPEAKER_00: what I'm reading. Another business book that I really enjoyed that's been around for a little
[22:12] SPEAKER_00: bit longer called So Good They Can't Ignore You by Count Newport who's fairly well known for his
[22:20] SPEAKER_00: sort of time management and personal organization kind of grew deeper. His big concept. So,
[22:28] SPEAKER_00: So Good They Can't Ignore You. I really enjoyed that because it what he encourages in a nutshell is
[22:35] SPEAKER_00: taking almost like a view of your career as a trade no matter what you're doing. But really like
[22:44] SPEAKER_00: looking at what are the skills you need to thrive in your career. Focus on developing a building
[22:49] SPEAKER_00: those skills and then get so good at those skills that you won't be ignored. I feel like too many
[22:55] SPEAKER_00: people are sitting around waiting for you wait till the CEO notices me or wait you know if I maybe
[23:01] SPEAKER_00: if I play enough golf with somebody bill it'll give me a job. I love just parking all that and just
[23:07] SPEAKER_00: focusing on on skills development in a real and deliberate way. So, that was an interesting one.
[23:14] SPEAKER_00: I've recommended it to a few of my team members here at owner but just just get so good that
[23:20] SPEAKER_00: they can't ignore you and your career will be in good shape. So, I like that one a lot too.
[23:26] SPEAKER_00: Better yeah I can go on. I try to look at one business book and one fiction book in front of me
[23:33] SPEAKER_00: at all times. So, but those were two that I've really been enjoying lately. Are you a morning or
[23:40] SPEAKER_01: night person? Very much a morning person. Earlier the better. Yeah, okay. Most of most of
[23:47] SPEAKER_01: us most of us aren't as on but there are exceptions. So, that's fun. And if you had to pick one word
[23:54] SPEAKER_01: to describe Shane Murphy what would it be and why would you choose that word? I'd try to prefer
[24:04] SPEAKER_00: someone else and get to you to provide that word and get their opinion but they often tell me
[24:08] SPEAKER_00: ahead. I think I've always loved adventure. So, if it sounds a little self-aggrandizing and
[24:14] SPEAKER_00: but adventurous I would take as a quite a compliment because adventure like a venture is something
[24:23] SPEAKER_00: I've always I've always tried to pursue whether it was my legal career or my business. I like to
[24:27] SPEAKER_01: think that these are all different adventures. I'm most keeping in what but night.
[24:35] SPEAKER_00: Well, if you mean that in a business way not too much I think overall this is a very high
[24:41] SPEAKER_00: performing team. The business doesn't keep you up at night. There's always something to do next.
[24:47] SPEAKER_00: But you know I could provide a literal answer. I have a dog that has been keeping me up at night
[24:55] SPEAKER_00: but that's a whole other story. I think it's a smart or something. It's a literally
[25:02] SPEAKER_00: issue last night where the dog can be helpful night but that's probably not. No, I feel like yeah,
[25:08] SPEAKER_00: I'm always I am always thinking about ways to to build the business and to keep this team together
[25:15] SPEAKER_00: and basically keep keep the employees aligned and happy with their their jobs here. It's something
[25:24] SPEAKER_00: that honestly I'm I'm sleeping well but always thinking about ways that we can make that better.
[25:30] SPEAKER_01: Shane, I'd like to thank you for coming on. It's been great meeting you and you know it's
[25:37] SPEAKER_01: an interesting interesting venture you're involved in. Thank you. Thank you so much Bill.
[25:42] SPEAKER_01: It's a real pleasure to shout you.
[25:47] SPEAKER_01: So I'm Phil Bliss and once again thanks for listening to Canada's podcast.
[25:53] SPEAKER_01: Where you meet entrepreneurs that are driving the Canadian economy.
[25:58] SPEAKER_01: Doctor, you soon. Canada's podcast, the number one podcast for entrepreneurs, by entrepreneurs.