From Big Tech to Healthcare: Zameer Rizvi’s Mission to Improve Patient Care

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[00:00] SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Canada's podcast.
[00:05] SPEAKER_01: Hi everyone, I'm Fulblis, founder and CEO of Canada's podcast and I'm coming to you today from Toronto.
[00:13] SPEAKER_01: Today I'm going to meet an Ontario-based CEO, Xeméa Rispy, of Odessa.
[00:18] SPEAKER_01: He's got a great entrepreneurial story.
[00:22] SPEAKER_01: Patient care has been deeply neglected as healthcare systems are overburdened and underfunded.
[00:28] SPEAKER_01: Xeméa recognized this and realized he had to do something and he launched Odessa in 2017.
[00:37] SPEAKER_01: Odessa helps healthcare providers shift focus back to the patient by alleviating operational
[00:43] SPEAKER_01: challenges. The company powers some of the most notable players in North America's healthcare
[00:49] SPEAKER_01: industry today. So let's find out why he started the company, where it's at and how he's helping
[00:57] SPEAKER_01: to solve one of America's biggest challenges today. So Xeméa, what I'm interested in right away
[01:04] SPEAKER_01: is why you started Odessa instead of starting another new venture.
[01:12] SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's a great question. Well, first of all, thanks for having me with such a pleasure
[01:16] SPEAKER_02: to be here and being representing various Canadian entrepreneurs. I really appreciate what you do
[01:23] SPEAKER_02: here. Why Odessa started in 2017 and prior to that, I had found a company called BPM Group,
[01:34] SPEAKER_02: BPM Group, what a stand for business process management. My background, both educationally,
[01:43] SPEAKER_02: spiritually and emotionally, is in the aspect of streamlining everything I can possibly get my
[01:51] SPEAKER_02: hands on. And so if there's anything that is being done manually, if there's anything that is
[01:58] SPEAKER_02: a daily grind of getting from point A to point B and repeating that day to day, if there's anything
[02:06] SPEAKER_02: that's administrative that is being done, that becomes a focus of my attention. And I always like to
[02:15] SPEAKER_02: improve that from just an engineering, reengineering process engineering standpoint. I went to school in
[02:22] SPEAKER_02: Canada at the University of Western Ontario and London, I graduated with electrical engineering,
[02:29] SPEAKER_02: and that's really got even more and more engrained in me as I went to school is that I don't like to
[02:36] SPEAKER_02: see manual processes repetitive, administrative, little level tasks and the beautiful time of
[02:42] SPEAKER_02: human being, then doing that. When we have so many technological advances out there,
[02:47] SPEAKER_02: now it's really good for me and my career. It hasn't really posed that well in my personal life,
[02:52] SPEAKER_02: because it lends itself a little OCD behavior if you ask my two I used to ask now. But in terms of
[03:01] SPEAKER_02: the engineering passion, it's really paid off for me. When I founded my first company, it was more
[03:08] SPEAKER_02: around consulting process, reengineering, finding more efficiency that you're familiar with, the sixth
[03:15] SPEAKER_02: stigma, school of thought, being able to parameterize a lot of different human behaviors and system
[03:24] SPEAKER_02: behaviors, and then bring them into a more modern, technologically savvy system. That's where I focused
[03:31] SPEAKER_02: in on we just did consulting. We were consultants, so we'd get different things, we'd go out and fight for
[03:38] SPEAKER_02: new bid, and we'd win them. We grew to a large team of engineers like mine and engineers in the
[03:46] SPEAKER_02: process efficiency area, and won some good contracts in oil and gas manufacturing insurance, financial
[03:55] SPEAKER_02: tech, things, etc. We noticed over the five years or so doing that was that there's a lot of gas,
[04:03] SPEAKER_02: there's some gas in the marketplace. What we found that even the systems and tools that we were
[04:08] SPEAKER_02: implementing as subcontractors and contractors were just being implemented to conduct repetitive
[04:15] SPEAKER_02: processes. Instead of human doing it now, we insist on doing these repetitive processes. He
[04:21] SPEAKER_02: wishes a good thing, which is great. However, the real power of innovation was really in creating
[04:27] SPEAKER_02: a system of tools and agents that are able to assist in actually improving processes and being
[04:38] SPEAKER_02: intelligent about it, and not just doing the same old repetitive work over and over again.
[04:43] SPEAKER_02: And so, well, the answer was found on that intention and that premise. And it's the best
[04:49] SPEAKER_02: decision that I made back in 2017, because with that innovation and that innovative mindset,
[04:58] SPEAKER_02: they say necessity is the mother of all invention. In the five years prior to starting the
[05:05] SPEAKER_02: death, healthcare was the hardest business to implement newer technologies, more modern technologies,
[05:13] SPEAKER_02: more relatively untested technologies, because there's so much of a compliance, resistance,
[05:19] SPEAKER_02: and risk aversion in healthcare. The sentiments that the healthcare industry
[05:23] SPEAKER_02: is very, very different. And when we were just doing the mundane day-to-day technology implementation
[05:28] SPEAKER_02: for systematic improvements, healthcare wasn't that responsible. However, as soon as the
[05:36] SPEAKER_02: death zone was formed and we were focused on innovation using newer technologies like
[05:43] SPEAKER_02: a generative AI, large-language model, and hyper-automation. The healthcare industry just
[05:51] SPEAKER_02: opened up with Bloomberg's power, because in the sense, invention is the inventive thought
[06:01] SPEAKER_02: processes really drive and solve the important problems for the healthcare business.
[06:07] SPEAKER_02: So, really excited about that. To answer your question, a very long-winded way, you can tell
[06:11] SPEAKER_02: I'm very excited about my company and what we're doing here. That's why we focused on the death
[06:17] SPEAKER_02: zone to create an innovative product and bring it, cutting out its technology to the industry.
[06:25] SPEAKER_01: I just said, you're starting another venture. Why, why, why, why, you saw you were consulting,
[06:34] SPEAKER_01: which is kind of entrepreneurship, but there's a lot of difference between consulting and
[06:41] SPEAKER_01: building a product company and building a business around that. Why did you decide to build that route?
[06:53] SPEAKER_02: Creating a product lends itself more to the innovation aspect, just the way the industry is structured.
[07:02] SPEAKER_02: With the product, you're able to implement more innovative features, be able to implement more
[07:09] SPEAKER_02: cutting edge technology, newer technology within your framework of tool that you're able to implement.
[07:16] SPEAKER_02: And consulting, it's a lot more prescriptive. The bids come with a graphy, what needs to be done,
[07:22] SPEAKER_02: whereas with the product, you're solving a particular problem and solving and giving a solution.
[07:26] SPEAKER_02: The particular problem is that consulting, you're usually bringing broad end to continue operating
[07:34] SPEAKER_02: something that already exists or builds something that needs to be maintained.
[07:40] SPEAKER_01: For those who are listening, you've got that background of having run a consulting
[07:49] SPEAKER_01: business and run a product business. Let's look at the talk about the economics of the consulting
[07:57] SPEAKER_01: side versus the economics of the product side. Give us some insights on that.
[08:07] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, to really simplify the economics of a consulting business is based on climate materials.
[08:14] SPEAKER_02: And the economics of software product is based on a subscription licensing model.
[08:25] SPEAKER_02: That's the fundamental difference.
[08:26] SPEAKER_02: Yes, your question. And really, what for you prefer, what you sell out and where you want to land on that?
[08:34] SPEAKER_02: That's right.
[08:35] SPEAKER_01: Is one a bigger leap than the other? I mean, in terms of, as an entrepreneur,
[08:43] SPEAKER_01: going to a product business, is that more of a risk factor than consulting?
[08:54] SPEAKER_02: Yes, it is more of a risk and with that risk, you get a lot more reward because just the way
[09:03] SPEAKER_02: that the software and the license description business can scale and the economy to scale are very
[09:11] SPEAKER_02: complex, which is why they're risky, but they're also a lot more exponential, not as linear as
[09:18] SPEAKER_02: climate material. For climate material, you have a certain number of hours, you have a certain number of humans.
[09:24] SPEAKER_02: To be able to work a specific problem. With software, there's a lot more factors that go into it.
[09:33] SPEAKER_02: It's time to still a factor. You still have the resources that you're applying. That's still a factor.
[09:39] SPEAKER_02: But there's also a factor of scale of implementing that technology, whether that's on the hardware
[09:45] SPEAKER_02: or the middleware level. There's a lot of factors to the pricing model that's very complex.
[09:51] SPEAKER_02: And the value that's delivered
[09:56] SPEAKER_02: is scales a lot better than with humans. So a human, which is having a material consulting
[10:02] SPEAKER_02: scale essentially one to one. You have a problem becomes bigger. You throw another head at it.
[10:10] SPEAKER_02: Whereas with software, what we find is that you have a problem that gets bigger, you need to not
[10:16] SPEAKER_02: necessarily double. So imagine the problem doubles really in terms of scale. The software you
[10:22] SPEAKER_02: have to throw at it is probably a quarter more to solve that problem of double, the problem
[10:29] SPEAKER_02: doubling. Whereas in the consulting state, if the problem doubles, you have to double the resources
[10:34] SPEAKER_02: you throw at it. And so it's a lot more, it's all bent for the customer. It's a lot more economical
[10:40] SPEAKER_02: from that perspective. It also brings a lot more innovative and provides a little more of a
[10:46] SPEAKER_02: path of income string that allows you to push back some of those resources into R&D,
[10:54] SPEAKER_02: innovation research, and build and improve that product with better technology.
[11:24] SPEAKER_02: The biggest challenge is it's a great question. It's really very elementary. It may come
[11:35] SPEAKER_02: off with elementary rather. It's evangelizing and educating the marketplace. Right, about what's
[11:45] SPEAKER_02: possible. I may tech head. I may I've been in the technology space for 20 years in the
[11:53] SPEAKER_02: entrepreneur space, right, tech product. And so what I know is a deep well of information about
[12:01] SPEAKER_02: how technologies can improve for an intention like patient outcomes, right, and improving patient
[12:08] SPEAKER_02: outcomes in the healthcare space. For example, now when we're speaking to our customer base or
[12:16] SPEAKER_02: potential prospect and other peers in the industry, they have 20 to 30 years of domain expertise
[12:23] SPEAKER_02: in ambulatory care for emergency medicine or nephrology. That's their deep domain knowledge.
[12:33] SPEAKER_02: You're taking two very deep steps of information and helping men and marry that
[12:41] SPEAKER_02: those information sets together the fine synergy. That is the hardest challenge. That just
[12:48] SPEAKER_02: breaks down to communication, education, evangelism. In the specifically the healthcare space,
[12:56] SPEAKER_02: it's driven by so many different intentions about patient outcomes, about quality care,
[13:01] SPEAKER_02: about low risk to the patient's in population sets. Those conversations are a lot more sensitive
[13:12] SPEAKER_02: than if you're talking about a bank. In a bank, it's like profit margin. It's very mathematical
[13:17] SPEAKER_02: or looking for. And now it's fair it's a lot more nuanced. To be able to speak to that,
[13:22] SPEAKER_02: coming from not a medical background has been quite the challenge and overcoming it is just being
[13:26] SPEAKER_02: real and keeping it very simple and explaining things so that in general population can understand it.
[13:38] SPEAKER_01: You can aid your entrepreneur. Moving between Canada and the US and running the
[13:47] SPEAKER_01: built build a business in the US. Is there any, I mean people here building a business
[13:56] SPEAKER_03: look at the US. What's different about building a business in the US versus Canada?
[14:07] SPEAKER_02: That's a wonderful question. The intention that I carried to build starting a business in the US
[14:14] SPEAKER_02: was to scale with the principles and sentiments that I would like to carry in technology product
[14:24] SPEAKER_02: could be applied. And the scale of the problem. And so when you just premise things on scale like the
[14:37] SPEAKER_02: best that naturally lend itself to larger populations that are more fragmented healthcare systems like
[14:44] SPEAKER_02: in the US and more access to a capital and also technological innovation being able to be kind of
[14:54] SPEAKER_02: the cost of that. So to answer your question, it can be answered in many ways about why start in the US
[15:04] SPEAKER_02: as a social Canada. But the lens that we saw the marketplace through was, where's the problem
[15:12] SPEAKER_02: the bigger and where the most impact and most capacity for change that we could bring positive outcomes.
[15:22] SPEAKER_03: Interesting. You know, you've had a bunch of challenges. How did you typically,
[15:31] SPEAKER_01: you know, when you hit something unexpected, do you have a process in terms of how you overcome them?
[15:43] SPEAKER_02: Yeah. Generally speaking, the process that we carry forward is number one is a transparency and
[15:57] SPEAKER_02: understanding the solution. Right. And understanding the root cause. And so there's a couple of layers to it.
[16:03] SPEAKER_02: Right. Specifically in the text space when you're handling information, that carries a lot of value and
[16:12] SPEAKER_02: importance to a particular patient's life, for example, or patients well being. There's cyber security aspects.
[16:20] SPEAKER_02: There's systematic aspects you have to look at. And so the first step is transparency around it to
[16:26] SPEAKER_02: ensure that the stakeholders involved are taken care of. And any thing that's compromised from that,
[16:33] SPEAKER_02: either the customer base, the patients and the clinicians involved is taking care of some
[16:39] SPEAKER_02: communication standpoint. And secondly, it's understanding if there's an immediate acute problem
[16:47] SPEAKER_02: that needs to be addressed through a temporary solution. And that we don't understand with the
[16:54] SPEAKER_02: root causes, the root cause analysis is very important critical. However, those can take time sometimes.
[17:00] SPEAKER_02: Like for example, not that this has happened to us, but a data leak, for example, you stop the leak first.
[17:05] SPEAKER_02: Right. And then you go ahead and understand what the root causes. So understanding if there's a potential leak
[17:12] SPEAKER_02: and immediate actions to take care of that and then moving on to the root cause analysis.
[17:16] SPEAKER_02: And then, what's pulling all that learning back into your product framework to make sure that never
[17:22] SPEAKER_03: happens again, building the guardrails around that. What do you enjoy most about being an entrepreneur versus being an on payroll?
[17:33] SPEAKER_02: It goes back to the initial intention of founding of this company based on the premise that
[17:44] SPEAKER_02: every day repetitive tasks, predictable tasks that are being done on the daily basis
[17:54] SPEAKER_02: that are inefficient and not streamlined are inherently,
[18:02] SPEAKER_02: is that I believe that the awhile they get you from A to B, they do inhibit
[18:09] SPEAKER_02: progress and growth. And that even ingrained in me spiritually and also in a creative and career
[18:20] SPEAKER_02: way. And so the reason I'm really enjoying the path of being an entrepreneur is that
[18:28] SPEAKER_02: I get to live that value growth every day. As opposed to I did work for Bel Canada. I did work for
[18:38] SPEAKER_02: Blacknery. So I spent the first decade in my career working for companies in Canada. And
[18:44] SPEAKER_02: a lot of times my job was, hey, we have data coming in from this system,
[18:51] SPEAKER_02: we have data coming in from this system, we don't know how to merge it together.
[18:55] SPEAKER_02: You know, every day we have a team that merges us saying, let's do that.
[19:00] SPEAKER_02: Right. And so, and it was a wonderful six-figure salary and it's like here I am just doing
[19:04] SPEAKER_02: something every day because the system can't do it. And in my mind, the latest all that problem
[19:11] SPEAKER_02: is to create data connector and create an innovative solution that allows us to free up our time
[19:18] SPEAKER_02: to do more intelligent tasks and have a system actually agree that is. This is a long-winded
[19:22] SPEAKER_02: example just to say that I cannot survive in that environment in which if that is the task at hand,
[19:28] SPEAKER_02: even if I raise my hand in a corporate environment with a bureaucracy as you know, oftentimes it's
[19:34] SPEAKER_02: like, hey, no, you just keep doing what you're doing. Nobody asks you to build, you know,
[19:39] SPEAKER_02: us to an innovative solution near your job as a. So I like it the entrepreneur task for that
[19:44] SPEAKER_03: meeting. So you think we entrepreneurs wired differently?
[19:52] SPEAKER_03: I think you met a few. I have an interesting question.
[20:00] SPEAKER_02: I think it's wire in human color. I think it's just our tolerance for risk. I mean, that's
[20:11] SPEAKER_02: what it comes down to. I would love to sit on a desk for a couple of days and make a
[20:20] SPEAKER_02: under 60,000 years with a wonderful benefit package to a whole month of vacation and meet and
[20:28] SPEAKER_02: work with great people all day long. And you know, you get my savings, get my RSTs in line,
[20:35] SPEAKER_02: and I'm good. Play my kids so I want to do. I didn't choose that path in my risk tolerance
[20:43] SPEAKER_02: is higher because some days I'm pulling my hair out and some days I can't flee still. But then
[20:49] SPEAKER_02: some days I'm sleeping extremely well and I'm not pulling my hair out and my life is actually great
[20:55] SPEAKER_02: and we're actually having the fulfilling experience of creating something, right? And creation
[21:03] SPEAKER_02: is one of the things that I really get through. So I don't know if it's a different wiring,
[21:07] SPEAKER_02: maybe we can colloquialize it that way in language, but I think it's just just risk tolerance
[21:15] SPEAKER_00: for it comes down to. Stay ahead of the game with our expert tips and strategies that will help
[21:20] SPEAKER_00: your business thrive in a digital era. Canada's podcast.com subscribe now.
[21:27] SPEAKER_01: So moving on to mentorship, what's the best piece of advice that you've ever received
[21:33] SPEAKER_01: that you know doesn't go away, that you kind of keep in your, keep in your back pocket and
[21:38] SPEAKER_01: use it on a regular basis?
[21:42] SPEAKER_02: On necessity being a mother of all inventions is key. That I learned after you know just seeing
[21:51] SPEAKER_03: what's happening within the healthcare space using AI, right? That is one of them. I think
[22:01] SPEAKER_02: a lot of you know one of the mentorship advice that I give to a lot of my staff is just the
[22:08] SPEAKER_02: key. The importance of simplicity and communication. You know we have some really really smart folks
[22:16] SPEAKER_02: working in in multiple jobs where communication often, if you're, if I'm talking to again I've
[22:27] SPEAKER_02: always go back to the astrology. Even though I'm in my 40s, there in the 40s they have a deep
[22:33] SPEAKER_02: well of information, 30 years experience that 30 years experience. We also come, we're speaking
[22:38] SPEAKER_02: a different language. And so when communicating in an idea or a thought or an intention,
[22:48] SPEAKER_02: sometimes we overdo it. You know we use some specific, you know some vernacular that's specific
[22:55] SPEAKER_02: to our industry. We assume that there's this basic concept that I you know we've been
[23:01] SPEAKER_02: gladdened to last ten years that someone on the other side that's in the medical field would
[23:06] SPEAKER_02: understand. And oftentimes people think that they talk to people very slowly in a very simple way
[23:16] SPEAKER_02: that they may be taken as unintelligent or not known what they're talking about, but it's
[23:21] SPEAKER_02: the complete opposite. And so I always give that advice that it's not you know it's a virtue
[23:27] SPEAKER_02: to be able to speak patiently and to be able to use simple words and convey ideas like you're
[23:34] SPEAKER_02: talking to somebody who has no idea. It hasn't been the space you've been in for the last 30 years.
[23:40] SPEAKER_01: Oh, Simon, let's tune in down from the series side of it. Let's have some great, some some
[23:57] Speaker UNKNOWN: some of the things that I've been doing. I wasn't doing what I was doing now. I probably
[24:07] SPEAKER_02: be spending a lot more time by family. I you know being the OCD tech guy who can't ever do two
[24:18] SPEAKER_02: things twice. I tend to drive a lot of people away which is the which is one thing. The other
[24:25] SPEAKER_02: aspect of music I love writing songs and I express myself emotionally through that process
[24:32] SPEAKER_02: and writing. And so I not that's something I do that already. I do put out a lot of I share that
[24:40] SPEAKER_02: with the world a lot. I would if I wasn't doing what I was doing today, I probably do a lot more
[24:49] SPEAKER_01: traveling and taking the time. Okay. What book are you currently reading, listening to or podcasts
[24:59] SPEAKER_03: I would recommend to the audience? I am currently reading a book on
[25:10] SPEAKER_02: reading kids because of few C&Rs and I was told what between that and the next book that I
[25:16] SPEAKER_02: escalated is by an author who I am extremely fascinated by his name. You've all know
[25:24] SPEAKER_02: Ferrari. He wrote the book Sapien. He wrote the book called
[25:31] SPEAKER_02: He's in the last new book called Nexus. Next on my list. But I forgot to mention the book that I'm
[25:38] SPEAKER_02: writing in love right now. It's called a creative app. More of a spiritual book is by
[25:43] SPEAKER_02: gentleman named Rick Rubin who's a creative music producer and he is very interesting look on
[25:53] SPEAKER_02: life and how to take in the atmosphere around us and it's a very very good book.
[26:00] SPEAKER_03: So you're a morning or a night person?
[26:05] SPEAKER_03: I'm a morning person. My brain is on fire and finally balanced in the morning as I get more
[26:12] SPEAKER_03: at the night time. It's a little more volatile. If you had to pick one word to describe yourself,
[26:21] SPEAKER_03: what would it be and why would you choose it?
[26:26] SPEAKER_02: Persistent. To a fault. You know, people across the moon probably mentioned that I have some
[26:37] SPEAKER_02: pretty good ideas. Ideas that would really pan out if I just stated them to you today in words.
[26:48] SPEAKER_02: However, I have a strange map for pursuing those and for decades in continuing to pursue them
[26:55] SPEAKER_02: until there's a way to realize them. So you know, persistence and resilience is key.
[27:03] SPEAKER_01: Persistence is a common, a common answer. So that's something you can do with the entrepreneurial side of it,
[27:10] SPEAKER_03: I think. Let's keep it in your upper night.
[27:17] SPEAKER_02: Well, there's a couple of aspects. On the technology side, going back to being curious,
[27:27] SPEAKER_02: I apologize, but no, we're delapping. I'll give you a light-hearted answer also.
[27:33] SPEAKER_02: But on technology side, we're in some really high-stakes operations in our day-to-day,
[27:40] SPEAKER_02: as I mentioned, we're dealing with some really, really important data and processes that need to
[27:48] SPEAKER_02: be handled with extreme care. And we're using some newer technology, like large language models,
[27:57] SPEAKER_02: machine learning, and creating some of our own utilities to further that and improve it and get
[28:06] SPEAKER_02: better. So there's a lot of high-risk thoughtfulness that has to be able to be thought about and
[28:13] SPEAKER_02: and insured. And as a leader of our company, I take a big honest on that for some ability.
[28:22] SPEAKER_02: And I think that's what that was. It's a mess, really keeping me up, but it is at the forefront of
[28:26] SPEAKER_02: my brain to make sure that I'm thinking about everything all the time, in terms of keeping
[28:31] SPEAKER_02: our patients and our clients data and operations secure. On a lighter side,
[28:44] SPEAKER_02: I mentioned earlier that at nighttime, the day and the only activities around the day
[28:50] SPEAKER_02: co-let together, you start spending time with more family, you get your friends, you have a
[28:56] SPEAKER_02: block of wine or two, perhaps, right? And the day just becomes more real because at the end of the day,
[29:03] SPEAKER_02: I think most people will agree that family is the most important thing in the world and friends,
[29:08] SPEAKER_02: and that's really important. So we spend this entire day in the theoretical world of our career
[29:14] SPEAKER_02: path in the real, very real world also. And then the night ends with what's more even more important.
[29:20] SPEAKER_02: And then I just get excited and what keeps me up is I'll get into a conversation and so
[29:26] SPEAKER_02: it's one o'clock, it's two o'clock, I don't care. Let's keep going. Like let's connect a little more.
[29:31] SPEAKER_01: That's cool. So you're keeping yourself up at night. And your friends?
[29:38] SPEAKER_01: Yeah. That's great. That's a good thing to end on.
[29:42] SPEAKER_01: So if someone's listened to this, there's lots of good stuff in there. How can people get a hold of
[29:50] SPEAKER_02: you online? The best way is LinkedIn, Zimir Rizfi, is where I am at. And if you want to learn a
[30:00] SPEAKER_02: little more about our company or software, objective.com. Okay. Zimir, it's been super heavy. Thanks for
[30:09] SPEAKER_01: coming on Candace Podcast. Thank you for having me. Appreciate it. Thanks for listening, everybody.
[30:15] SPEAKER_01: Once again, I'm Phil Bliss and don't forget to subscribe to our newsletter on the website
[30:20] SPEAKER_01: or and subscribe on our YouTube channel as well. And on any of the major podcast channels.
[30:27] SPEAKER_01: Thanks for listening to Candace Podcast where you meet the entrepreneurs that drive Candace economy.