Putting a Human Face on Tech with Faye Pang

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[00:00] SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Canada's podcast.
[00:05] SPEAKER_01: Hi, this is Celine Williams hosting for Montereo for Canada's podcast.
[00:09] SPEAKER_01: My guest today is Fay Pang, who is the Canada Country Manager for zero, the global small
[00:15] SPEAKER_01: business platform with more than 2.7 million subscribers worldwide that's dedicated to
[00:20] SPEAKER_01: making business beautiful.
[00:22] SPEAKER_01: Fay brings nearly 15 years of experience building businesses from the ground up to her
[00:26] SPEAKER_01: role.
[00:27] SPEAKER_01: Welcome, Fay.
[00:27] SPEAKER_01: Hi.
[00:29] SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much for having me.
[00:30] SPEAKER_02: I'm excited to be here.
[00:31] SPEAKER_01: I'm excited to talk to you.
[00:33] SPEAKER_01: You have a very interesting background in story and I'd love for you to start by sort
[00:38] SPEAKER_01: of sharing with our listeners how you got to do what you're doing today.
[00:43] SPEAKER_01: What has your journey but been thus far?
[00:47] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
[00:48] SPEAKER_02: I think I might take us all the way back to explain a little bit about my why.
[00:53] SPEAKER_02: And so the story to know about me is I'm the daughter of immigrant entrepreneurs.
[01:00] SPEAKER_02: They came to Canada and settled in Mississauga and started their own business which they ran
[01:05] SPEAKER_02: for 23 years.
[01:06] SPEAKER_02: And so I watched them come with not very much classic Canadian Dream story and build that
[01:12] SPEAKER_02: business up over two decades.
[01:16] SPEAKER_02: And to this day, the thought of them toiling away, trying to make it without a lot of support,
[01:22] SPEAKER_02: you know, really try to figure out do we have the cash flow?
[01:25] SPEAKER_02: Can we pay our team?
[01:26] SPEAKER_02: You know, what do we need to grow?
[01:28] SPEAKER_02: Those are the fundamental questions that small businesses today still wrestle with.
[01:32] SPEAKER_02: And it's what I'm particularly excited about in terms of zero's ability to have that impact
[01:37] SPEAKER_02: in the Canadian market.
[01:38] SPEAKER_02: So it all starts from us coming from China way back in the 80s and settling here and
[01:44] SPEAKER_02: living that Canadian dream.
[01:46] SPEAKER_02: In terms of my career path, I started in marketing.
[01:49] SPEAKER_02: So I went to Queens University for commerce and graduated and took up a job in CPG where
[01:56] SPEAKER_02: I absolutely loved the consumer psychology element of it.
[02:00] SPEAKER_02: I loved the brand building and strategic thinking.
[02:03] SPEAKER_02: But I knew that I was missing some of that entrepreneurial spark, the speed and the pace.
[02:09] SPEAKER_02: And so I actually ended up taking a step back.
[02:12] SPEAKER_02: I have what I call my quarter life crisis in my early 20s and said, I don't know if I
[02:19] Speaker UNKNOWN: have any companies.
[02:19] SPEAKER_02: I'm going to do what everyone does when they don't know what they want to do.
[02:22] SPEAKER_02: And I'm going to move to Vancouver.
[02:24] SPEAKER_02: And so I did that for a summer and you know, absolutely loved it.
[02:29] SPEAKER_02: Took a step back and just tried to think about what do I want to do with my career?
[02:33] SPEAKER_02: And is there a place that maybe is a bit more of a fit with my values and entrepreneurial
[02:37] SPEAKER_02: spirit that I have grounded in me?
[02:41] SPEAKER_02: Ended up working for a great little Canadian company.
[02:44] SPEAKER_02: I say a little now tongue in cheek called Marc Anthony brand.
[02:47] SPEAKER_02: So you know brands like Palm Bay, Mike Sardinay, White Claw, you know, phenomenal brand building
[02:55] SPEAKER_02: capability, you know, really strong, obviously Canadian focus.
[02:58] SPEAKER_02: Absolutely loved my time there.
[03:00] SPEAKER_02: But I was still hunting for, you know, even more innovation and pace.
[03:05] SPEAKER_02: And in 2015, an opportunity came up to join Uber Canada.
[03:09] SPEAKER_02: They were launching and scaling a little product called Uber Eats, which in its current
[03:14] SPEAKER_02: form then was basically a lunch product.
[03:17] SPEAKER_02: And you may remember this, they used to have cars driving around downtown Toronto and you
[03:21] SPEAKER_02: could, you know, open up the Uber app and order, you know, one of three dishes that day.
[03:26] SPEAKER_02: And I just thought this product was going to set the world on fire.
[03:29] SPEAKER_02: I said, this is incredible.
[03:31] SPEAKER_02: You know, I can get my lunch in 30 seconds.
[03:33] SPEAKER_02: It turned out that was truly MVP of what we were eventually going to build, which became
[03:38] SPEAKER_02: the Uber Eats app.
[03:39] SPEAKER_02: And so it was very, very lucky to be on the original launch team that actually brought
[03:44] SPEAKER_02: Uber Eats to Toronto as a global first.
[03:47] SPEAKER_02: And we launched, you know, December 2015 kind of shutter eyes and hit go and said, you
[03:53] SPEAKER_02: know, is this going to be something that people want to use?
[03:55] SPEAKER_02: And it turned out obviously to be an incredibly influential product, something that really
[04:02] SPEAKER_02: upended delivery in the Canadian market.
[04:04] SPEAKER_02: And I think ultimately really sort of charted a new course for restaurants and how they
[04:09] SPEAKER_02: can make money and generate an incremental revenue and awareness.
[04:12] SPEAKER_02: And for consumers, you know, just a new way of exploring and enjoying the communities
[04:17] SPEAKER_02: around you.
[04:18] SPEAKER_02: So that was my journey kind of from CPG into tech.
[04:22] SPEAKER_02: And then about a year ago, I got a call from zero.
[04:25] SPEAKER_02: And to be very honest, I didn't know that much about the organization.
[04:28] SPEAKER_02: But as I dug in and learned about the passion for small businesses and the opportunity within
[04:34] SPEAKER_02: the Canadian market, I just got really, really excited.
[04:37] SPEAKER_02: So all the same ingredients of that recipe that we had with Uber Eats back in 2015 and
[04:43] SPEAKER_02: really feeling like we're in an inflection point for the industry.
[04:47] SPEAKER_02: And so that's why I made the move and just really excited to be on team zero these days,
[04:52] SPEAKER_02: helping to think about how we help small businesses, you know, really build up and build
[04:57] SPEAKER_02: that better.
[04:59] SPEAKER_01: That's fascinating.
[05:01] SPEAKER_01: And I did not know that Uber Eats sort of globally.
[05:07] SPEAKER_01: I didn't know that Toronto was an inflection point.
[05:09] SPEAKER_01: So even just that, I was like, that is so interesting.
[05:11] SPEAKER_01: I had no idea about that.
[05:15] SPEAKER_01: So I have a lot of questions inside of this, but I want to, I'm guessing and I could be
[05:22] SPEAKER_01: very wrong.
[05:23] SPEAKER_01: And I'm fully going to own that this could be a very wrong assumption.
[05:25] SPEAKER_01: But I'm guessing that Uber, even Uber Eats Uber, what was quite a large organization by
[05:33] SPEAKER_01: the time you left and that zero is maybe not quite as large and it may and I appreciate
[05:39] SPEAKER_01: it's growing, but maybe not as large is that it is that a safe assumption to be making.
[05:47] SPEAKER_02: It's an accurate assumption.
[05:49] SPEAKER_02: So you know, they're actually the two companies are pretty close in age.
[05:53] SPEAKER_02: You both started about 15 years ago.
[05:55] SPEAKER_02: When I joined Uber, I was in and around employee 4,000 globally and that's just about where
[06:01] SPEAKER_02: we are at with zero globally today.
[06:05] SPEAKER_02: So yes, it's obviously different scale, totally different business, right marketplace
[06:09] SPEAKER_02: business versus obviously a lot more the B2B focus here at zero.
[06:15] SPEAKER_02: But there are a number of similarities in terms of moving from that startup phase to
[06:21] SPEAKER_02: a scale up and how do you harness the the energy and excitement and rapid iteration in
[06:27] SPEAKER_02: the early days, but actually build a process and a platform that allows, you know, the 5,000,
[06:32] SPEAKER_02: 10,000, 15,000 employee growth.
[06:35] SPEAKER_02: That's that's the aspiration at a lot of similarities in the two organizations sort of
[06:40] SPEAKER_02: navigating that at the structure of their maturity.
[06:43] SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
[06:44] SPEAKER_01: So I think it's really I appreciate that because I was going to say I think it's really
[06:47] SPEAKER_01: interesting that Uber was has such a consumer, a direct to consumer focus, right?
[06:55] SPEAKER_01: And zero clearly has a B2B focus.
[06:58] SPEAKER_01: It's focused on small businesses.
[07:00] SPEAKER_01: And so what in your role or in your experience, what has, what are some of the differences
[07:10] SPEAKER_01: that come with that?
[07:11] SPEAKER_01: What are some of the opportunities that come with that?
[07:13] SPEAKER_01: What are some of the, because that's a big divide and tech in general.
[07:16] SPEAKER_01: And I think that it's have an experience on both sides and how it affects internally,
[07:21] SPEAKER_01: how it affects the impact it has on the client, whether it's individuals or businesses.
[07:27] SPEAKER_01: So I'm curious what your observations of the differences are and what's great or challenging
[07:32] SPEAKER_01: about each of them.
[07:34] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, for sure.
[07:36] SPEAKER_02: It's obviously two very different business models, right?
[07:39] SPEAKER_02: Whenever you look at Uber, whether it's on the ride sharing side or the Uber Eats
[07:43] SPEAKER_02: side, you know, we talk about marketplaces, whether two or three-sided.
[07:46] SPEAKER_02: And in those cases, balance is really important, right?
[07:49] SPEAKER_02: If you drive a ton of consumer demand, but you don't have enough restaurants or delivery
[07:55] SPEAKER_02: folks to help deliver that, you actually create the perfect storm of a bad customer experience.
[08:02] SPEAKER_02: And similarly, when we talk about zero, we always talk about this idea of a dual flywheel,
[08:07] SPEAKER_02: right?
[08:07] SPEAKER_02: So not only do we need to be increasing awareness and consideration and customer experience
[08:13] SPEAKER_02: on the small business side, but we're almost just as focused if not more so in a lot of ways
[08:17] SPEAKER_02: on the accounts and bookkeepers that serve them.
[08:20] SPEAKER_02: Because we know two-thirds of Canadians, business is actually work with an account and a bookkeeper
[08:26] SPEAKER_02: at some point in the year.
[08:27] SPEAKER_02: And so that's their most trusted advisor when it comes to, hey, what accounting software
[08:32] SPEAKER_02: should I use?
[08:32] SPEAKER_02: Or I've got this particular business challenge or lack of visibility to cash flow.
[08:37] SPEAKER_02: What would be your recommendation?
[08:39] SPEAKER_02: That recommendation is really powerful.
[08:42] SPEAKER_02: And so if we were to just focus on small businesses, we'd be missing out a huge swath of potential
[08:47] SPEAKER_02: promoters and advocates for us.
[08:49] SPEAKER_02: And if we were just to focus on accounts and bookkeepers, we'd be, you know, pushing water
[08:54] SPEAKER_02: up hill because the small businesses would say, well, you know, I don't know a lot about
[08:58] SPEAKER_02: zero.
[08:58] SPEAKER_02: I'm more comfortable doing something else, right?
[09:00] SPEAKER_02: Or sticking to pen and paper or using Excel, et cetera.
[09:03] SPEAKER_02: So it's not either or it's actually, we need to do both.
[09:07] SPEAKER_02: And that's really similar to marketplace businesses where you need to ensure, you know,
[09:11] SPEAKER_02: you're rising supply or demand equally at all times were possible.
[09:18] SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
[09:19] SPEAKER_01: And I love that.
[09:20] SPEAKER_01: So I think it's a very interesting approach to be dealing with both individual or, you
[09:30] SPEAKER_01: know, bookkeepers, I'm calling them individual.
[09:32] SPEAKER_01: Like, recognizer may not always be and small businesses.
[09:35] SPEAKER_01: And I'm curious what you see.
[09:39] SPEAKER_01: What you, I mean, are you seeing trends in terms of where small businesses are going or
[09:46] SPEAKER_01: what they're thinking about or when they're, you know, where the accountant bookkeeper becomes
[09:51] SPEAKER_01: really key because I think that it's a really unique lens to have visibility in both
[09:57] SPEAKER_01: of those places.
[09:58] SPEAKER_01: And, you know, a lot of our listeners and viewers are small business owners.
[10:04] SPEAKER_01: And they're curious.
[10:05] SPEAKER_01: They're, you know, listen, I think a lot of us who are small business owners have cobbled
[10:10] SPEAKER_01: together what we do.
[10:12] SPEAKER_01: There's a whole bunch of duct tape and string and hope for the best.
[10:16] SPEAKER_01: And, you know, you have a lens on some of the trends or opportunities or potential that's
[10:21] SPEAKER_01: out there that we may be going, I thought about doing it that way.
[10:25] SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
[10:26] SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
[10:27] SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
[10:28] SPEAKER_02: I think, you know, obviously goes without saying last year and a half has been incredibly
[10:33] SPEAKER_02: difficult.
[10:34] SPEAKER_02: Our research shows us that, you know, it's never been more top of mind for small businesses
[10:39] SPEAKER_02: around resiliency.
[10:41] SPEAKER_02: And this idea of digitally mature businesses are more resilient.
[10:46] SPEAKER_02: They can react faster.
[10:48] SPEAKER_02: You know, if you think about things like government grants, you know, access to capital, the
[10:53] SPEAKER_02: more that you have your business digitized, the quicker you can respond to the black
[10:58] SPEAKER_02: swan events, the quicker you can take advantage of that new opportunities, you know, the easier
[11:03] SPEAKER_02: it is for you to determine where you should pivot when you get when you get thrown a curveball.
[11:09] SPEAKER_02: And so our research has shown that, hey, small businesses really top of mind really want
[11:13] SPEAKER_02: to focus in on that.
[11:14] SPEAKER_02: And where their turning is to these accountants, bookkeepers and advisors.
[11:18] SPEAKER_02: And more and more, we're seeing this switch from, hey, I'm just going to come to you
[11:23] SPEAKER_02: once a year so you can help me do my taxes at the end of the year and that I'm not going
[11:26] SPEAKER_02: to talk to you for 364 days and then I'll see you next year.
[11:30] SPEAKER_02: We're seeing that shift too.
[11:31] SPEAKER_02: And maybe we should chat monthly, right?
[11:33] SPEAKER_02: Or maybe I can, I've got a big business decision instead of feeling like every entrepreneur,
[11:38] SPEAKER_02: which is I'm going to have to figure this out myself and Google is my best friend.
[11:42] SPEAKER_02: There actually are experts and there are people that are in your court and have your back.
[11:47] SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, obviously that's a bit of a different mindset shift and behavior shift.
[11:52] SPEAKER_02: But we are seeing that more and more where small businesses are increasingly, you know,
[11:57] SPEAKER_02: embracing this idea of do it together, right, with an accountant or bookkeeper advisor versus
[12:02] SPEAKER_02: I've got a DIY, everything myself.
[12:06] SPEAKER_01: Um, so I want to, you mentioned digitally mature.
[12:09] SPEAKER_01: It's one of the, you know, words, pieces of language that you use.
[12:14] SPEAKER_01: Can you, for those who are listening who may not fully understand what that means?
[12:18] SPEAKER_01: Can you give a sense of what you mean when you say digitally mature?
[12:21] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so we actually partnered with the Brookfield Institute to do a study around this.
[12:28] SPEAKER_02: And they looked at a whole bunch of data around, you know, how connected small businesses were,
[12:34] SPEAKER_02: right, what percentage of their operations were in cloud-based technologies,
[12:38] SPEAKER_02: how many apps do they use to power their business?
[12:40] SPEAKER_02: And here at zero, we're super focused on the ecosystem, right?
[12:44] SPEAKER_02: We want to be a small business platform.
[12:46] SPEAKER_02: And so we actually plug in with over a thousand connected apps,
[12:49] SPEAKER_02: everything from expenses to accounts payable accounts receivable reporting.
[12:55] SPEAKER_02: You know, you've got a business problem.
[12:57] SPEAKER_02: There's probably someone in our ecosystem that has an app to solve that for you.
[13:02] SPEAKER_02: And one of the really cool things that we saw coming out of COVID was, you know,
[13:06] SPEAKER_02: small businesses that had five or more connected apps into zero actually saw a lower revenue decline
[13:14] SPEAKER_02: and a greater ability to pay their staff, right?
[13:17] SPEAKER_02: Because we have visibility on the back end to all that information.
[13:20] SPEAKER_02: And so for us, you know, the more connected you are, the more digitized your operations,
[13:25] SPEAKER_02: the clear takeaway was, you know, we expect you to be more resilient to those types of
[13:30] SPEAKER_02: unforeseen circumstances.
[13:32] SPEAKER_02: You've got that data at the tip of your fingertips and you're able to action that more quickly.
[13:38] SPEAKER_01: I think that's a really important lesson for anyone who's listening.
[13:42] SPEAKER_01: And I don't want to skip over it because there's so much.
[13:46] SPEAKER_01: Listen, I have been in the position where I was very hesitant to, you know, attempt to learn
[13:51] SPEAKER_01: a new piece of software or, you know, add something to the mix.
[13:56] SPEAKER_01: And there's the access to data and information and, you know, speed and ease and all those things.
[14:03] SPEAKER_01: Once the initial, you know, setup happens, which is true for any change, right?
[14:08] SPEAKER_01: Is extraordinarily different.
[14:10] SPEAKER_01: And that's really what I hear you saying is,
[14:13] SPEAKER_01: regardless of, I'm talking about the resistance, but regardless of any of that, once the data is
[14:17] SPEAKER_01: there, once it's connected, once people have access, it is easier and it does make a difference.
[14:23] SPEAKER_01: And it's getting over that initial fear of change or the unknown or the new as a small business
[14:29] SPEAKER_01: owner to be able to be in, to be in a better position and be more resilient when things are hard.
[14:38] SPEAKER_01: And things are going to be hard off and on.
[14:40] SPEAKER_01: There should be challenges all the time, whatever they might be.
[14:44] SPEAKER_02: Absolutely. And just to build off that, you know, we think of ourselves sort of two main things
[14:50] SPEAKER_02: that we're really passionate about. One is change management, right? So yes, zero is a tech company,
[14:55] SPEAKER_02: but we're built by humans and we're used by humans. And so you have to have that lens on what it
[15:00] SPEAKER_02: takes to implement change management well and to know those mental blockers and to know about
[15:06] SPEAKER_02: that trough of despair on the tech adoption curve. Like, you know, our team studies that pretty
[15:11] SPEAKER_02: fanatically because the better we can do that, the better we can help our partners actually
[15:16] SPEAKER_02: implement the change and do it successfully. And then the second thing that we're, you know,
[15:22] SPEAKER_02: extremely passionate about my husband will tell you my love language is efficiency. And that's
[15:26] SPEAKER_02: true for a lot of accounts and bookkeepers. But it all comes down to time, right? If time is your
[15:34] SPEAKER_02: most valuable resource as an entrepreneur, how can you use technology to get time back so that you
[15:39] SPEAKER_02: can actually focus on doing the things that you love, right? You can feel free to jump in and
[15:43] SPEAKER_02: correct me, but I don't think you got into doing your own things so that you can balance your books
[15:48] SPEAKER_02: at the end of every month. That's probably not the thing that you get pumped about. No,
[15:54] SPEAKER_02: there are tools that do that for you. And they do it using ML and AI, they do it in an automated
[15:59] SPEAKER_02: way, they do it while connected to all of your bank accounts and other systems. And just,
[16:06] SPEAKER_02: you know, we talk about business being beautiful and we really believe that. We think technology can
[16:11] SPEAKER_02: enable, you know, that seamless workflow that happens in the background and allows you to just
[16:16] SPEAKER_02: focus on building your business, you know, servicing your customers and doing what it is that you love.
[16:21] SPEAKER_02: So the efficiency component is really important to us to the extent that when we bring on a new partner,
[16:28] SPEAKER_02: you know, we do things like efficiency reviews, just say, how much did you say per file versus how
[16:33] SPEAKER_02: you were doing it before? Now that we've implemented this tech, right? So those are the types of things
[16:38] SPEAKER_02: that are hero metrics around, you know, it isn't going well. Is it working for you? Yeah.
[16:44] SPEAKER_01: So I'm and this may not be linked, but you mentioned earlier as well, this idea of build back better.
[16:50] SPEAKER_01: And I'm curious because you spoke about building a few times in there. It may not be linked and it
[16:54] SPEAKER_01: might just be my brain putting the two together. I recognize that. But I'm curious if build that,
[17:00] SPEAKER_01: like what build back better means for you and for zero. And if it is linked to what we're talking
[17:04] SPEAKER_01: about here somehow, or maybe it's something entirely different, which I'm very open to
[17:10] SPEAKER_02: having created a link that's only for me. No, I think there's I think we can talk about that in the
[17:19] SPEAKER_02: context of listen, just to draw the parallel with Hubert again, right? Yeah. Before Uber Eats and,
[17:26] SPEAKER_02: you know, a lot of these other delivery platforms really exploded. If you were going and talk to
[17:31] SPEAKER_02: a mom and pop restaurant, you know, and say, hey, we can do delivery, they'd probably say, you
[17:37] SPEAKER_02: know what? Actually, we're good. We have our neighborhood around us. We've been here for 25 years.
[17:42] SPEAKER_02: We've got our regular customers. We don't necessarily want to grow. And that just seems like
[17:48] SPEAKER_02: too big of a change and a shift. And then, you know, COVID happened and it sort of forced the hands
[17:54] SPEAKER_02: of a lot of those restaurant owners to say, okay, actually, I do need another revenue stream.
[17:59] SPEAKER_02: Now I need to reconsider, you know, how I go to market, give it all of the obviously challenge
[18:04] SPEAKER_02: and reality around me. Right. And so they were able to pivot quickly. And now this is just such an
[18:12] SPEAKER_02: interval part of a lot of businesses. And as it exposed them to a lot of new customers and revenue
[18:18] SPEAKER_02: streams, right? I think the same can be set of small businesses where COVID really forced a lot of
[18:24] SPEAKER_02: them to say, wow, that like that improvement that I was thinking about, the new system that I've
[18:29] SPEAKER_02: been humming and hawing over, you know, I've been saying I wanted to get payroll onto this thing
[18:34] SPEAKER_02: for years now and just never happened. All of those things suddenly came right to the fore.
[18:39] SPEAKER_02: And it's like, you have to right now, you've got no choice. But at the end of the day, once you go
[18:45] SPEAKER_02: through that adoption and that change, it's going to be better, right? It's going to be more efficient.
[18:49] SPEAKER_02: It's going to be more seamless. It's going to give you more time back to focus on doing what you
[18:54] SPEAKER_02: love. And so when we talk and think about building back better, it's really the silver lining of
[18:59] SPEAKER_02: the last year and a half and all the challenge has been it's really for small businesses to rethink
[19:05] SPEAKER_02: how they operate and to really kind of focus and hone in on the core core thing, right? Anytime
[19:11] SPEAKER_02: there's a lot of noise, it's really about prioritization and focus. And that has spurred a lot of really
[19:18] SPEAKER_02: interesting conversations around, okay, yeah, maybe it is time to take that leap. Maybe it's time to
[19:23] SPEAKER_02: move my accounting and my books into the cloud. I've been thinking and considering it for ages
[19:28] SPEAKER_02: and now feels like the right time to take that leap. Listen, I love the idea of rethinking in general.
[19:34] SPEAKER_01: I'm a big fan of unlearning, rethinking, challenging the assumptions that we have and have made to
[19:41] SPEAKER_01: date. And so I think that it is unfortunate that it has taken a pandemic for a lot of people to get
[19:48] SPEAKER_01: to the point and a lot of business that are just getting to the point where they're willing to do that.
[19:51] SPEAKER_01: And I think it's really important that it is happening and that
[19:56] SPEAKER_01: there that, you know, in order like quite frankly, an organization like zero is so mindful and
[20:01] SPEAKER_01: thoughtful about that awareness and encouraging that and supporting that, you know, with the small
[20:09] SPEAKER_01: businesses on the platform, off the platform, I think that's a really incredible thing because it's
[20:14] SPEAKER_02: important. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And if I could build on just what you said, I think that
[20:20] SPEAKER_02: other really interesting sort of element of building back better is we've been working from home
[20:26] SPEAKER_02: now for, you know, a year and a half, right? This was at such a novel concept before, there's this
[20:32] SPEAKER_02: notion that only a small percentage of the workforce is ever going to be able to work from home
[20:37] SPEAKER_02: permanently successfully and not have it drop in productivity. Well, I think the last year and a
[20:42] SPEAKER_02: half is really popped that bubble in terms of, hey, actually, there's probably a way to build back
[20:48] SPEAKER_02: better as well as we think about the employee experience. And I'm super passionate about diversity
[20:54] SPEAKER_02: inclusion and zero is all about creating an environment where people can do the best work of
[20:59] SPEAKER_02: their lives. And so what I get really excited about is rethinking to your point what that
[21:06] SPEAKER_02: proposition looks like for, you know, progressive companies, right? And how can we embrace
[21:12] SPEAKER_02: all the learning that we've gotten from the last year and a half and create worlds where, you know,
[21:17] SPEAKER_02: a single mom of two, you know, can still hold a great job and not feel like she's making sacrifices
[21:24] SPEAKER_02: because she can't come into an office five days a week, right? We've just seen such an opening here,
[21:31] SPEAKER_02: I think, for people of all backgrounds to be able to work at companies that they really have
[21:37] SPEAKER_02: and feel a values alignment with because of this embracing of work from home and hybrid,
[21:42] SPEAKER_02: you know, flexible work schedules. So I'm really excited about that as well.
[21:47] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and so I love this because I'm going to, I want to shift into sort of the,
[21:53] SPEAKER_01: let's call it the experience of zero as an employee or zero as an organization, not necessarily what's
[21:58] SPEAKER_01: doing in the world with its platform, which is great. But, you know, there is a, the tech world
[22:05] SPEAKER_01: is bigger conversation. I'm curious, where do you see zero specifically, but let's also say tech
[22:14] SPEAKER_01: companies in general, we're starting to rethink some of these things. And what is the opportunity
[22:19] SPEAKER_01: or what are the trends that you're seeing there? Because listen, if there's one thing that has also
[22:23] SPEAKER_01: become even more important in the past year and a half, unfortunately, because of some of the things
[22:28] SPEAKER_01: that have happened in the States is like DEI belonging, having equitable workplaces as much as
[22:35] SPEAKER_01: possible and being conscious of what that looks like. And so I'm curious where, what you're seeing
[22:41] SPEAKER_01: inside zero in general and tech, because I think you have a really unique lens on this.
[22:47] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely. I think there's, there's a few things I'd want to share there. One, and
[22:53] SPEAKER_02: so Rachel Powell is a chief customer officer for zero. And you know, one thing that she always
[22:59] SPEAKER_02: talks about is this idea that in that traditional sort of who are your shareholders models and who
[23:05] SPEAKER_02: do prioritize zero has always been about prioritizing our internal team or zeros and employees
[23:11] SPEAKER_02: first, because if you do that and you prioritize, you know, their well-being and how they're
[23:16] SPEAKER_02: feeling about the organization, they'll take care of our partners and our customers and at the end of
[23:21] SPEAKER_02: the day, that'll take care of the business. And so that really resonated with me even before I joined
[23:26] SPEAKER_02: zero. And I certainly feel that while I've been here, there's two main things that I would call out.
[23:32] SPEAKER_02: One is, is this notion of well-being. So zero actually has a global head of well-being and we were
[23:38] SPEAKER_02: really focused on this before it became like a pretty big buzzword over the last year and a half,
[23:44] SPEAKER_02: but it's, it's been something that's been super core to how zero has been built. Every zero has
[23:49] SPEAKER_02: 10 well-being days a year that they can use at their discretion above and beyond sort of vacation
[23:55] SPEAKER_02: days off. You know, whether it's about taking care of your family or you just feeling like, hey,
[24:00] SPEAKER_02: I'm, I'm not doing okay this week and I need a day to myself. No questions asked those days are
[24:06] SPEAKER_02: yours and we try and do our best to encourage our teams to take those. And then no shortage of
[24:13] SPEAKER_02: programming internally just really focusing on how do we help our zero's craft their perfect day,
[24:19] SPEAKER_02: find those focus breaks during the day, take lots of breaks, get outside, you know, applying all
[24:24] SPEAKER_02: of the science that we have around, you know, what makes someone's well-being and how do you sort of foster
[24:30] SPEAKER_02: that and how do we create an environment again where people can really do the best work of their
[24:35] SPEAKER_02: lives. So well-being is super top of mind for all of our people leaders up to our executive team
[24:40] SPEAKER_02: and then the other component is flexibility, right? So they kind of go hand in hand,
[24:45] SPEAKER_02: but the more you can formalize and encourage flexibility around flexible working arrangements
[24:50] SPEAKER_02: around, you know, this notion of work from home and having all the tools and processes that you
[24:55] SPEAKER_02: need to do that well, the more we can enable our teams to really make work work for them and work
[25:01] SPEAKER_02: for their schedules and work for their families if they have, you know, commitments there. And so
[25:06] SPEAKER_02: we've really been focused on that. Recently, zero actually launched a permanent remote roles program
[25:12] SPEAKER_02: for our product and tech teams, which is really exciting and applicable here in Canada as well.
[25:16] SPEAKER_02: So folks can actually apply specifically for our most friendly role. And then, you know, with that,
[25:23] SPEAKER_02: I have the clarity and the flexibility that they need again to do the best work that they can do.
[25:28] SPEAKER_02: So we've really been focused on those two things, well-being and then the flexibility to enable
[25:33] SPEAKER_01: our teams. And I want to, you know, fully put on my biased hat right here and say, I really hope we
[25:40] SPEAKER_01: see more of that not only in the tech world, but in the world of employment in general, because I think
[25:48] SPEAKER_01: that flexibility and the ability to work hybrid is going to, I think it's more and more important
[25:54] SPEAKER_01: for people. And when organizations are intentionally creating opportunities where that is built into
[26:02] SPEAKER_01: whatever the opportunity is and it's not someone having to go and advocate because
[26:07] SPEAKER_01: it can be really hard for people to do that. And it's not, you know, there are fears of what
[26:13] SPEAKER_01: the repercussions could be false or not. It doesn't make a difference. They exist. So when organizations
[26:17] SPEAKER_01: are really intentionally saying, we are creating these opportunities with flexibility that are remote
[26:24] SPEAKER_01: that are for, you know, are for the people that this matters in a specific way to, it encourages
[26:30] SPEAKER_01: other organizations to do the same because now it is, it's now, let's, the part of the norm,
[26:37] SPEAKER_01: it's part of the norm that's out there. So I really, my biased hat is I love hearing that. I really
[26:44] SPEAKER_01: hope we see more and more of that because I think that is, you know, a huge component of attracting
[26:52] SPEAKER_01: the best people, retaining the best people, enabling people to move around an organization effectively
[26:57] SPEAKER_01: that in a way that works for them in their stage of life and their time of life. So I love that
[27:02] SPEAKER_01: that program exists and I want to, you know, really emphasize how much I love it. Yeah, yeah,
[27:08] SPEAKER_02: meet me too. And you're right. It's going to become table stakes, right? You see the odd
[27:13] SPEAKER_02: company or two these days that are saying, now, you know, it's everyone back in the office, 100%
[27:17] SPEAKER_02: no, no flexibility is just, to me, it's shortsighted. There are always going to be those roles that
[27:23] SPEAKER_02: lend themselves to remote work. And, you know, we should do everything that we can to keep great talent,
[27:29] SPEAKER_02: especially given how competitive the market is these days. So I am very proud of how Hasero has
[27:35] SPEAKER_01: been showing up there. Well, and I think it's a, it's a real, it's, it's a, an obvious way to show
[27:44] SPEAKER_01: a, a real not just the words that we're using commitment to diversity, equity and inclusion,
[27:51] SPEAKER_01: right? By saying, there are, you don't have to live in a specific city. You don't have to be doing
[27:57] SPEAKER_01: this in a specific way. This enables people who, for whatever reason, whether it's preference or
[28:03] SPEAKER_01: a need or whatever it is to really feel a sense of belonging in an organization. I think that's
[28:10] SPEAKER_01: really important because there's a lot of verbiage and language around, you know, DEI and
[28:16] SPEAKER_01: belonging out there in the world in the tech world as well. And there's not always the action and
[28:21] SPEAKER_01: behaviors that back it up. Yeah, in very obvious ways. And this is a great way of, of putting your
[28:28] SPEAKER_01: money where your mouth is. Yeah, yeah, couldn't agree more. I'm, I'm, I know that, you know, we
[28:37] SPEAKER_01: talked about DEI and that's something that you're very passionate about. And I want to, before we wrap
[28:41] SPEAKER_01: this up, I want to ask the question of how, where do you see changes happening? What do you see the
[28:51] SPEAKER_01: opportunity as now at the, I was going to say end of the pandemic, but not end of at this stage.
[28:59] SPEAKER_01: In the pandemic, because I think a lot has come to light in the past year and a half and a lot has
[29:05] SPEAKER_01: changed. And I, I'm curious because of your passion around the topic, what you're seeing, or either
[29:13] SPEAKER_01: that's not working or is changing or is an opportunity, but kind of where do you see things at right
[29:21] SPEAKER_02: now? Yeah, I think, you know, what was, what was probably a bit demoralizing at the start of the
[29:29] SPEAKER_02: pandemic, because when you looked at the data of what jobs were most impacted throughout the Canadian
[29:35] SPEAKER_02: economy and sort of how that disproportionately impacted women, it really sort of took us back,
[29:42] SPEAKER_02: right? There had been some good momentum, some good progress. There's obviously a lot of commitments
[29:46] SPEAKER_02: from many organizations at every level. And then, you know, when the stuff hits the fan, it's like,
[29:53] SPEAKER_02: it's sort of the first thing to drop, right? It's okay, focus on business critical initiatives.
[29:58] SPEAKER_02: And DEI things tend to get put on the backburner. So at the start of the pandemic, it was pretty,
[30:04] SPEAKER_02: I would say, from my perspective, you know, it's demoralizing to say, okay, well, we're seeing this
[30:09] SPEAKER_02: outsized impact on women and people of color. How do we, again, back to this notion of building
[30:14] SPEAKER_02: back better and actually using this as a way to reimagine a new, a new normal? I would say I've
[30:27] SPEAKER_02: got to talk about bigger focus more, you know, female lead startups, female funding, right? There's
[30:32] SPEAKER_02: just a lot of really incredible momentum within the Canadian market. Obviously, we could use as much
[30:39] SPEAKER_02: of that as, as we'll get, but I do think that there's a lot of really good momentum and a focus
[30:44] SPEAKER_02: on it and it is going to take a focus, right? Diversity and inclusion is a journey. There's no
[30:49] SPEAKER_02: silver bullet. Do this thing and all your problems are solved and all of a sudden you're, you know,
[30:55] SPEAKER_02: your set. It's a constant battle against systemic bias, you know, systemic challenges and
[31:03] SPEAKER_02: organizations just have to be really committed to that. So from the zero perspective, we've got a
[31:08] SPEAKER_02: full DEI program that is led by Matthew Coons out of our Denver office and he's just doing an
[31:14] SPEAKER_02: incredible job really putting pillars into place to make sure on things like recruiting on interviews,
[31:21] SPEAKER_02: on, you know, promo cycles. We are systematically looking at places where there might be bias
[31:27] SPEAKER_02: in rooting that out. Where possible, we're taking data and informing our decision making with that data.
[31:33] SPEAKER_02: We are partnering with external third parties to make us better challenge and poke and, you know,
[31:39] SPEAKER_02: really educate us internally about where we should be focusing our efforts. And so there's a lot
[31:45] SPEAKER_02: of really amazing energy happening at zero, particularly across the US and Canada these days,
[31:51] SPEAKER_02: that I find really inspiring, but it definitely is a journey and not a one and done initiative that
[31:59] SPEAKER_01: will solve all those problems. And I think that I appreciate that and I think it's really important to
[32:06] SPEAKER_01: to recognize and call that out because it is there's going to be new things that we need to learn
[32:11] SPEAKER_01: and unlearn that we are not aware of right now that will come up in the next six months,
[32:15] SPEAKER_01: year, five years, 10 years because it is dismantling the systems and biases and assumptions that we have
[32:23] SPEAKER_01: that are so inherent and we're all, you know, not, I say we all, but let's say North America,
[32:29] SPEAKER_01: we're socialized in a particular way. We don't, most people don't even question them.
[32:33] SPEAKER_01: We're not aware of how deep they are and we're not aware of the bias that it creates. And I think that
[32:39] SPEAKER_01: I love that zero has such a very clear commitment to challenging and changing that and we're all
[32:47] SPEAKER_01: going to make mistakes and it's not going to be perfect and isn't this one specific outcome that
[32:52] SPEAKER_01: is going to, we all know we're there at this moment in time. If only it was that easy. Yes, there is no,
[32:57] SPEAKER_02: there is no finish line on this. But that's actually what gets me excited too because I think there's
[33:03] SPEAKER_02: just so much opportunity and yeah, we have an opportunity to meet at so that once in a lifetime
[33:11] SPEAKER_02: at the moment of just crafting with that new normal looks like and really sort of building back from
[33:16] SPEAKER_01: the ground up. Yeah, I agree. I think it's really, I think it's very cool. Before we wrap this up,
[33:22] SPEAKER_01: I want to ask the question I always end with, which is there's something that we didn't get to that
[33:26] SPEAKER_01: you want to make sure we talk about or something that you mentioned that you want to emphasize before
[33:32] SPEAKER_01: we wrap this up or you're good and that's also an okay answer as well. Maybe that I'll just like
[33:39] SPEAKER_02: put an exclamation mark beside a point that you and I talked about earlier, which is, you know,
[33:45] SPEAKER_02: for all the entrepreneurs and small business owners that are listening to this podcast today,
[33:50] SPEAKER_02: really encourage you to reach out if you're not already connected to an account to enter bookkeeper
[33:57] SPEAKER_02: and advisor. Yeah, I've been there, started my own businesses, seen my parents do it. There's
[34:02] SPEAKER_02: always this roll up your sleeves, mentality and just put your head down and get it done and I love
[34:08] SPEAKER_02: that and appreciate it and you know, that's what makes entrepreneurs so special. But one thing that
[34:15] SPEAKER_02: we're really passionate about is you don't have to do it on your own. And so, you know, make that call,
[34:21] SPEAKER_02: find out how someone can help you really rethink what tech tools you're using to power your business
[34:27] SPEAKER_02: in other areas where you can get one, two, three hours back a week. I mean, time is your most
[34:34] SPEAKER_02: valuable resource as an entrepreneur, right? And so, how do you just get the time to focus on doing
[34:38] SPEAKER_02: what you love? We firmly believe that in concert with that advisor and concert with tools like zero,
[34:45] SPEAKER_02: you can actually get a lot of time back in your day and your week again to focus on building your
[34:50] SPEAKER_02: business. So, it always feels like you don't have time to find more time, you don't have time to
[34:56] SPEAKER_02: build a new system or take on a new tool. But I strongly recommend people take this opportunity to
[35:04] SPEAKER_01: rethink that and challenge you to do so. Yeah, I think that's a great place to put an
[35:10] SPEAKER_01: exclamation point. I think it's a really important point to emphasize. So thank you for that. And
[35:13] SPEAKER_01: Faye, thank you for your time today. It's been really great chatting with you and I appreciate
[35:18] SPEAKER_01: you sharing your perspective and experience and speaking into the realities of many small business
[35:24] SPEAKER_01: owners experiences in Canada. Thank you so much. It's great to be on. And for our listeners,
[35:31] SPEAKER_01: thanks for listening to Canada's podcast. Like comment and subscribe to all our channels to get
[35:35] SPEAKER_01: the latest podcasts from entrepreneurs across Canada.