Building a hospitality empire

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TRANSCRIPTION WITH SPEAKERS
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[00:00] SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Canada's Entrepreneur, where we talk to the entrepreneurs who are making it happen
[00:05] SPEAKER_01: across Canada and deliver the news, trends, knowledge and opinions from entrepreneurs and business
[00:13] SPEAKER_02: influences across the country. Hello, I'm Mario Toneguzi managing editor of Canada's Entrepreneur,
[00:21] SPEAKER_02: joining me on Calgary's podcast is Sky McLean, who is founder and CEO of Everwild Nordic Spa,
[00:29] SPEAKER_02: as well as founder and CEO of Basecamp Resorts. Thanks for joining us, Guy.
[00:37] SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for having me today. All right, and you're based in Canmore, right?
[00:43] SPEAKER_02: That's right. Okay, let's talk a little bit about each of those entities, and let's start with
[00:51] SPEAKER_02: the Everwild Nordic Spa. Tell me a little bit about that, what that is.
[00:57] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, of course. So as the name would suggest, it's Nordic Spa, but back in time a little bit,
[01:05] SPEAKER_00: we have a hotel in Canmore that's currently called Mountain House Hotel, and we were going to
[01:11] SPEAKER_00: expand the hotel because the hotel itself came with an extra two acres of land. And I was standing
[01:17] SPEAKER_00: on the land and thought, why are we building more hotel rooms? We should build a spa. And so that
[01:22] SPEAKER_00: was the onset of the idea that since we've hired professionals and architects and engineers,
[01:27] SPEAKER_00: and we're actually opening November 20th, which is going to be Canmore's first Nordic Spa.
[01:31] SPEAKER_00: So we're really excited for the grand opening. It's well underway in terms of construction,
[01:35] SPEAKER_00: design, procurement, all of those things. Okay, and what is Basecamp Resorts?
[01:44] SPEAKER_00: The Basecamp Resorts is the name of the hotel company. So back in 2017,
[01:49] SPEAKER_00: I decided I wanted to build a hotel. So this whole thing started with me building a hotel called
[01:55] SPEAKER_00: Basecamp Resorts. That was basically a purpose-built Airbnb. So Stack Town Homes.
[02:02] SPEAKER_00: So there were
[02:05] SPEAKER_00: multi-pill different unit types. They all had their own full kitchen, different size bedrooms,
[02:12] SPEAKER_00: bathrooms, basically a home away from home. The company then evolved and started acquiring
[02:16] SPEAKER_00: different types of hotels, so motel conversions like Lamb House on Main Street, hotel conversions,
[02:23] SPEAKER_00: like Mountain House, and continued to grow. And now we're growing very various on the hot,
[02:31] SPEAKER_00: cold, rest, repeat. And that's the Thermo Cycle, which is kind of the basis of the Nordic Spa.
[02:38] SPEAKER_00: We're bringing that, but also the different sauna rituals and different Nordic Spa-inspired
[02:44] SPEAKER_00: experiences to our various locations with the first one being Canmore.
[02:50] SPEAKER_02: Well, that's the same. So you're not from Canmore, right?
[02:57] SPEAKER_02: No, not originally. I'm from Toronto. Okay, so when did you come out West and why?
[03:07] SPEAKER_00: So I graduated from undergrad and business and was like, you know what, I'm going to go to Calgary
[03:13] SPEAKER_00: for a year, work for Cadbury, sell chocolates, do sort of that like first job out of school thing,
[03:19] SPEAKER_00: move back to Toronto, climb the corporate ladder, do all that. But I never went back other than to do
[03:25] SPEAKER_00: my MBA in real estate development, which I did because I knew I wanted to be in real estate development,
[03:30] SPEAKER_00: came back to Calgary in 2012, worked for a series of different real estate developers before
[03:35] SPEAKER_00: starting my own real estate company in 2016. And why out here though, like all the places,
[03:45] SPEAKER_02: what attracted, what was the appeal of coming out this area?
[03:52] SPEAKER_00: Well, for me personally is the lifestyle. Like I thought Calgary was the best thing ever because
[03:57] SPEAKER_00: you could be in Calgary, you could have a corporate job, make lots of friends, do all the like
[04:01] SPEAKER_00: city stuff, but be an hour from the mountains, from skiing, from mountain biking, from all the things
[04:08] SPEAKER_00: I actually love to do from a lifestyle perspective. That's fundamentally how I actually ended up in
[04:12] SPEAKER_02: Canmore in the end, but it started in Calgary. Okay, and maybe talk about that journey to Canmore and
[04:19] SPEAKER_02: why did you end up there and living there and doing business there?
[04:27] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you bet. So when I was working for one of those
[04:30] SPEAKER_00: multitude of developers after my MBA in real estate, I wanted to buy a condo in Canmore,
[04:36] SPEAKER_00: which I did, and I commuted into Calgary three days a week and two days a week stayed with a friend,
[04:41] SPEAKER_00: and that condo had this very specific zoning that allowed me to rent it out on Airbnb or live
[04:48] SPEAKER_00: in it full time. So I did a hybrid of both, and that's how I got into hotels. I just still had this
[04:53] SPEAKER_00: random condo that I would put on Airbnb when I was either staying in Calgary or away from the weekends
[04:59] SPEAKER_00: for the weekend story, and then was like, oh my gosh, like this is actually really lucrative,
[05:04] SPEAKER_00: more lucrative than my real job. I'm going to build a hotel. And so long story short, that's how
[05:10] SPEAKER_00: this whole base camp resorts ever world spa started. What do you think the appeal is of Canmore,
[05:19] SPEAKER_02: and to people like, you know, I'm a big fan. I love going out there and spending time,
[05:27] SPEAKER_02: but you'll get people from all around the world. You walk down the main street and you see,
[05:32] SPEAKER_02: and you hear so many different languages. What's the appeal of Canmore?
[05:38] SPEAKER_00: Oh, it's just the best. The appeal, to be honest, it all started in BAMF, I think,
[05:45] SPEAKER_00: like that was always the original place people would visit before Canmore, before I was even born.
[05:52] SPEAKER_00: And people always heard about BAMF, heard about the mountains, heard about the majestic beauty of
[05:56] SPEAKER_00: the rock, the hiking, the skiing, all the things. And then that spilled over to Canmore. And then
[06:03] SPEAKER_00: over the years, Canmore has evolved into its own gem that doesn't rely on BAMF for tourism,
[06:08] SPEAKER_00: because it is, in fact, beautiful. There's amazing biking. There's amazing skiing really close by.
[06:12] SPEAKER_00: The Nordic Center for Cross Country skiing is amazing. And if you're not into those sports,
[06:17] SPEAKER_00: and you just want to hang out and observe the mountains, there's a ton of walking trails,
[06:22] SPEAKER_00: cute shops, great restaurants, all the things for people who might not be, you know, as adventurous,
[06:27] SPEAKER_00: but still want to have a really nice time in the mountains. And that was another reason for this
[06:32] SPEAKER_00: Nordic spa business, was that people love to have really great experiences and really beautiful
[06:37] SPEAKER_00: experiences in the mountains. And not everybody wants to, you know, hike for five hours,
[06:42] SPEAKER_00: and then mountain bike for another three hours. Like that's not for everyone. So the Nordic spa will
[06:47] SPEAKER_00: have, you know, that place in Canmore for people who want to relax, rejuvenate, look at the
[06:53] SPEAKER_00: mountains, but maybe not like go crazy. So I'm really excited about it. Yeah, you know, there's a
[06:59] SPEAKER_02: different vibe among people who live in a place like Canmore, or any mountain resort, whether
[07:08] SPEAKER_00: BAMP or Jasper, or any place like that. Oh, for sure. Yeah. I would say that if you're comparing
[07:18] SPEAKER_00: it to Calgary or Toronto or something like that, it's definitely way different people.
[07:22] SPEAKER_00: And you know, if you're going to live in one of these small towns, you're sacrificing certain
[07:27] SPEAKER_00: elements of like affordable living, because it doesn't exist in these small towns, amenities,
[07:32] SPEAKER_00: proximity to airport, like all these kinds of things that you get in the city, because you really
[07:36] SPEAKER_00: love the lifestyle. You're willing to pay, you know, the Canmore premium, right now I'm sitting in
[07:40] SPEAKER_00: Rubble Stoke, the Rubble Stoke premium to have this lifestyle, which, which to your question really
[07:46] SPEAKER_00: brings in a certain special type of person that's willing to do that because they want to be in
[07:51] SPEAKER_00: the mountains, they want to live that lifestyle, they want their kids raised, you know, close to the
[07:55] SPEAKER_00: ski hill or whatever it may be. So I think it really does drive an outdoor driven person to these
[08:01] SPEAKER_02: markets. Is it a feel that when you get there, like people are kind of chill, right there, they're
[08:11] SPEAKER_02: pretty relaxed and calm and you know, life just goes on at a normal pace, it's not like 100 miles
[08:20] SPEAKER_00: an hour. Yeah, a little bit, but I still think it's pretty fast pace because everyone's trying to
[08:28] SPEAKER_00: go biking, trying to go skiing, trying to do this, trying to do that. So I think it's chill, but it's
[08:31] SPEAKER_00: just different, right? Everyone's trying to do a million things, but maybe it's just a bit of different
[08:35] SPEAKER_02: things. Yeah. Now, being right at the doorstep of all this stuff and the outdoors, you think that
[08:44] SPEAKER_02: helps you as a business owner, just having the breaks, I guess. So like just from the mental
[08:55] SPEAKER_02: kind of a mental point of view that got the outdoors to chill out and relax and not be at your
[09:05] SPEAKER_00: job like every single second of the day. Yeah, I think so. If we compare myself to my colleagues
[09:12] SPEAKER_00: in Toronto, for example, where they're in the concrete jungle and everyone's working or
[09:17] SPEAKER_00: all downtown and it's total chaos, being in the mountains, you can go for a run up the trail
[09:23] SPEAKER_00: at lunchtime, go back to your desk and feel to your point like way better than you did before you
[09:27] SPEAKER_00: started. So having the experiences that I love in the backyard and soon to have the spa to
[09:35] SPEAKER_00: balance that all out, it's really great and does for me promote a better lifestyle and
[09:42] SPEAKER_02: work life balance. Tell me a little bit about, I guess, your attraction to real estate and
[09:51] SPEAKER_00: where did that come from and why real estate? Yeah, well, for me was one of those things that was
[10:00] SPEAKER_00: just just made sense. Like, you know, some people they understand physics or some other people
[10:05] SPEAKER_00: understand chemistry. Some people are really artistic and can sing and can play the piano and all
[10:10] SPEAKER_00: this stuff. Like, to me, real estate was naturally what made sense in my brain, the analysis, the
[10:17] SPEAKER_00: risk factor, like it's high risk business. But on top of all that, when I was a kid, my parents
[10:24] SPEAKER_00: always loved to look at different houses and my mom really wanted to buy homes and renovate them
[10:30] SPEAKER_00: and flip them and my dad was an engineer and she thought he'd be the perfect, you know, partner in
[10:35] SPEAKER_00: this endeavor and then he never wanted to do it because he was so risk averse. So they was
[10:39] SPEAKER_00: talked about this and then they never did it. And so as a kid, I was like dragged all over the
[10:44] SPEAKER_00: place to all these, you know, potential projects. And then we never did them. And I was like, this
[10:48] SPEAKER_00: is stupid. This would be a great project or this would be a great project. And I was like eight
[10:52] SPEAKER_00: years old. So I think I was exposed to all the thought processes and then never did the execution
[10:57] SPEAKER_00: as a kid. So had that sort of like ingrained in me and was like, okay, that's it. Like, when I grow
[11:02] SPEAKER_00: up, I'm going to execute on all these ideas that my parents never did. And so that's probably
[11:08] SPEAKER_00: where it came from. But I really wanted to do the education piece. So like the MBA and real estate
[11:12] SPEAKER_00: development because I felt that that would, you know, be a good foundation for a career and real estate.
[11:17] SPEAKER_00: And it was not just the education itself, but the people that I met, the jobs I got from that,
[11:21] SPEAKER_00: it all sort of like came to fruition. It wasn't always mapped out, but it all worked out in the end.
[11:30] SPEAKER_02: And sorry, where did you do the MBA? The MBA was in Toronto.
[11:35] SPEAKER_00: What school? As Schulik, which is the business school at York University.
[11:40] SPEAKER_02: Okay. And did you go to your regular university there as well?
[11:44] SPEAKER_00: I did actually. Yeah. Oh, okay. I specifically went back there because I would have liked to have
[11:48] SPEAKER_00: a different experience and do an MBA somewhere else. But I specifically went there because they had
[11:54] SPEAKER_00: this quite notable MBA and real estate development. And I knew that that's what I wanted to do.
[11:59] SPEAKER_00: So I didn't want to go just like do an MBA. I wanted to do this specific MBA.
[12:04] SPEAKER_02: Yeah. Okay. What was when you were starting out and you know, starting off your own
[12:11] SPEAKER_00: business, what was the biggest challenge for you? Oh my gosh, they're like 100. I suppose the
[12:19] SPEAKER_00: biggest challenge was raising money like for me and still is frankly. For me, you know, I didn't
[12:27] SPEAKER_00: have all this money to build the first hotel. We needed $8 million, $2 million in equity and
[12:32] SPEAKER_00: $6 million in debt. And you know, I had like five bucks. So it was like, okay, I got to figure out
[12:37] SPEAKER_00: how to get all this money together, phone people. I knew I had the idea. I knew I had the
[12:42] SPEAKER_00: pro forma and I knew I'd identified the piece of land. But I then had to find money for the deposit,
[12:47] SPEAKER_00: find money to acquire the piece of land, which was $800 grand, find the remaining equity required
[12:52] SPEAKER_00: to get a bank loan. And I couldn't get a bank loan because here I am this random person,
[12:56] SPEAKER_00: you know, with no collateral and all that. So I had to go to a private lender and get money from
[13:01] SPEAKER_00: a private lender. And so that was the hardest part was really just pulling all the money together
[13:05] SPEAKER_00: because I was confident in the idea, the design, the stag townhomes, the zoning, my ability and
[13:11] SPEAKER_00: real estate development. And Tim, my boyfriend at the time who's now my husband, I knew he could build
[13:18] SPEAKER_00: the thing. So I was like, Tim, let's build a hotel and he's like, okay, but I had to go and find all
[13:22] SPEAKER_00: the money. So that was the biggest challenge. What's the biggest challenge today?
[13:27] SPEAKER_00: Binding the money. It's a consistent thing. And instead of needing $8 million, we need like $800
[13:34] SPEAKER_00: million. So it's just like, it's just you add zeros as you go along. Yeah.
[13:40] SPEAKER_02: What, yeah, when you, you know, along your journey as an entrepreneur,
[13:46] SPEAKER_02: do you have any kind of mentors or role models that you looked up to and helped you along the way?
[13:57] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I had a few people on the way I would go to for, you know, various snippets of advice,
[14:03] SPEAKER_00: depending on what the topic was, but I didn't have, you know, like a specific defined mentor
[14:09] SPEAKER_00: the way some people didn't know I didn't have that. Yeah, what about in terms of looking up to
[14:14] SPEAKER_02: saying people out there that that were successful business people and entrepreneurs, you know,
[14:22] SPEAKER_02: in the world, anybody come to the note for you that you know, now there really isn't anyone that
[14:30] SPEAKER_00: comes to mind, but back in the day, I was sitting out and be like Barbara Corcoran, you know, like
[14:35] SPEAKER_00: the New York City woman who's on Shark Tank or whatever and she went from nothing to where she
[14:41] SPEAKER_00: is today and her story is, you know, quite, quite interesting and there's a few others like that,
[14:47] SPEAKER_00: but yeah, she always came to mind just because she was, you know, I guess,
[14:51] SPEAKER_00: semi-famous being on Shark Tank and I was like, I'd like to meet her because I kind of did the
[14:55] SPEAKER_00: same thing she did, but a bit different in development, but yeah. And I'm just curious, any
[15:00] SPEAKER_00: books that you read that helped you along the way? Yes, I'm really in a book now called diary of a CEO,
[15:08] SPEAKER_00: it's really good. And your couple of friends listened to the podcast and I'm in the middle of the book
[15:14] SPEAKER_00: and there's another one that's very notable and I'm like the title is escaping me.
[15:21] SPEAKER_00: If it was sitting over there, I'd go grab it, but there's a few, yeah, but the diary of a CEO is good,
[15:27] SPEAKER_00: so I do like to read those types of books for sure. What advice would you give a young person that
[15:33] SPEAKER_02: as, you know, they're come to you and say, hey, I'm having an idea, I want to be an entrepreneur,
[15:39] SPEAKER_00: what would you tell them? Well, if they really believe in the idea and they have some data, you know,
[15:46] SPEAKER_00: like when I started, I didn't have all the data, I didn't have all the experience in order to
[15:50] SPEAKER_00: have all the knowledge, but I had enough. And so if that person has enough, just enough in their
[15:55] SPEAKER_00: field or the ability and the money to hire experts depending on the field, that they just have to
[16:01] SPEAKER_00: do it. You know, you can really suffer from analysis paralysis. And if you're a true entrepreneur,
[16:08] SPEAKER_00: you do just do it. And if you can't do it because you're too risk averse and it's, you know,
[16:12] SPEAKER_00: you're losing sleep at night and it's just too painful, then go get a job, get paid every two
[16:16] SPEAKER_00: weeks, right? Like it's not for everybody. So I think a lot of people want to be entrepreneurs,
[16:21] SPEAKER_00: because it sounds so like magical, but then like they're innate self entrepreneurs, they can't
[16:26] SPEAKER_00: sleep at night, they can't handle the risk, they can't handle the stress, they can't pay payroll
[16:29] SPEAKER_00: on the credit card, which I've done. Like if you can't do that, then don't do it. Like don't think
[16:34] SPEAKER_00: you're a person that you're not would be my advice. And if you really are that person, then just
[16:38] SPEAKER_00: do it. And it'll work out. So that's what I would say. Outside of the spending time outdoors, what
[16:46] SPEAKER_00: do you have any other interests and hobbies that? Yeah, well, I've two kids. I have a six-year-old
[16:53] SPEAKER_00: girl and a four-year-old boy. So I do a lot of like storm lessons and soccer games and things like
[16:58] SPEAKER_00: that. So I find like their activities have of course become my activities. So it's but it's really
[17:04] SPEAKER_02: cute. Yeah. Now do you think of, you know, especially for entrepreneurs, as said, who are almost
[17:11] SPEAKER_02: always thinking about their company? How important is that to strike that balance in your life?
[17:21] SPEAKER_00: Oh, for me, it's really important. Like I have seen people and read books frankly about people who
[17:27] SPEAKER_00: just work too much and it's just I just it's not good and it runs well, right? It's like the
[17:32] SPEAKER_00: it's important to find that balance and that balance is different for each person. So there's no
[17:38] SPEAKER_00: right and wrong. But it's like for each person, they have to figure out what it is that they need
[17:43] SPEAKER_00: to feel fulfilled. And if you have kids, obviously, that's a huge part of it. If you don't have kids,
[17:48] SPEAKER_00: is it outdoor activity? Is it some form of meditation? Is it travel? Is it, you know, it's not being
[17:54] SPEAKER_00: all consumed and thinking that if you take a week off, the whole business is going to crumble because
[17:59] SPEAKER_00: if you're a good entrepreneur, the business shouldn't crumble if you go on holiday for a week.
[18:03] SPEAKER_02: No, that's true. But this tough though, isn't it for entrepreneurs to get away from their
[18:09] Speaker UNKNOWN: business? Because that's their baby, right? And uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh,
[18:13] SPEAKER_00: totally. Yeah. 100%. To your point, you never stopped thinking about it. You never stop.
[18:19] SPEAKER_00: Yeah. Even that I'm, you know, it's like 11 o'clock in the night and I was writing notes of things
[18:23] SPEAKER_00: that I was thinking of that, oh, I got to do this in the morning, that in the morning,
[18:26] SPEAKER_00: you got to think of this. Like, you know, when people put those out of office things on their email,
[18:30] SPEAKER_00: I always laugh. Like, oh, must be nice. Direct your emails to someone else. I've never done that.
[18:36] SPEAKER_02: But you got to wonder like how many times those, uh, like, like, keep checking them though, right?
[18:41] SPEAKER_02: The check of the email, even though they have the out of office thing, right?
[18:45] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I don't think they're checking them. My staff love them dearly, but I don't know if they're
[18:49] SPEAKER_00: checking their emails when they're out of offices. And no, do I want them to? It's just fine.
[18:54] SPEAKER_02: So, um, where do you see the, the business being in five years?
[18:59] SPEAKER_00: Well, in five years, we'll have a multitude of spas open, not just can, or because we're going to
[19:04] SPEAKER_00: start building it. We started building actually in Fernie, we're starting in Calgary. Hopefully,
[19:08] SPEAKER_00: start in Bayon. Um, we're looking at sites in Ontario. We definitely want to expand. Um, so I think
[19:14] SPEAKER_00: we'll have a bunch of different spas underway and hopefully still growing. Okay, wonderful. Well,
[19:20] SPEAKER_00: thanks so much, Sky, for joining us today. Well, thank you so much for having me. I really
[19:24] SPEAKER_02: appreciate it. Okay, that was Sky McLean, who is CEO and founder of Ever Wild Nordic Spa and
[19:32] SPEAKER_02: base camp resorts. I'm Mario Toniguzzi, managing editor of Canada's Entrepreneur. Thanks for
[19:38] SPEAKER_02: joining us today.