Andrew Novak

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[00:00] SPEAKER_00: It's Toronto's podcast on the Canada's podcast network.
[00:28] SPEAKER_01: Hi there. I'm Phil Bliss, the business visionary and co-host
[00:33] SPEAKER_01: of Toronto's podcast of the Canada's podcast network. Today, I'd like you to meet
[00:42] SPEAKER_01: Andrew Novak. Andrew founded his own digital marketing company after a career in
[00:48] SPEAKER_01: the financial services industry. Andrew is from Hamilton and is now an entrepreneur.
[00:54] SPEAKER_01: He's a passionate innovator, a digital marketer, and an expert in search
[00:59] SPEAKER_01: and optimization. He's now president of Thinker Digital, the new digital division
[01:05] SPEAKER_01: of Hamilton Ontario's largest full service marketing agency, Thinker Marketing.
[01:10] SPEAKER_01: Thinker Digital focuses on high performing digital marketing campaigns that are
[01:16] SPEAKER_01: fully integrated into the larger marketing plans of medium to large-sized
[01:21] SPEAKER_01: companies across North America. So without further ado, Andrew, why don't you tell us a
[01:29] SPEAKER_01: little bit more about yourself, you know, away from giving us the details on your current
[01:35] SPEAKER_01: business, you know, just, you know, a three to five minute, who the heck is Andrew Novak?
[01:42] SPEAKER_03: Yes, sounds good. So, personally, I'd like to thank you for having me on the podcast
[01:45] SPEAKER_03: here, Phil. It's a great opportunity to reach out and tell everybody what we're all about.
[01:52] SPEAKER_03: So, I found that Novak Digital, about four years ago now, time seems to go so fast,
[01:59] SPEAKER_03: yet so slow at the same time. It's this weird kind of situation that happens when you're
[02:04] SPEAKER_03: doing these type of things. I'm sure you've been done the same path. So, founding the company,
[02:11] SPEAKER_03: building it up, building a client base, and, you know, trying to figure out, okay, what do I do next?
[02:16] SPEAKER_03: It's kind of like an adventure of, you know, kind of an unmapped journey. So, you kind of just
[02:25] SPEAKER_03: take the plunge and you just kind of roll over the punches. And either you learn really fast what
[02:31] SPEAKER_03: to do, or you learn really fast what not to do. Thankfully, you know, those, those lessons of what
[02:37] SPEAKER_03: not to do didn't come as many as the what to do lessons. So, that's great. We were able to grow
[02:44] SPEAKER_03: the team and really establish ourselves as a more of a niche type of marketing firm where we focused
[02:51] SPEAKER_03: only on digital, only on very specific disciplines within digital, and to really build that, build
[02:58] SPEAKER_03: the performance and the name for ourselves. Fast forward to earlier this year in 2018, and we were
[03:05] SPEAKER_03: approached by the group here at Thinker Marketing, and a couple of different ways. Finally,
[03:12] SPEAKER_03: I would say the early summer, we came to an agreement and came in house here and joined up with
[03:19] SPEAKER_03: the the finger team. So, it's been quite the journey, you know, 2018's just wrapping now, and I'm
[03:26] SPEAKER_03: looking back and it still feels like back in August when we joined. So, just time is going on so
[03:32] SPEAKER_03: fast the past couple of months. It's it's pretty wild. Cool. Cool. Okay, so I'm just going to move into
[03:39] SPEAKER_01: some questions that, you know, talk a little about how you became an entrepreneur. So, the first
[03:45] SPEAKER_01: question I always like to ask is, you know, you we were having a little chat before, you know, you
[03:50] SPEAKER_01: thought you started it in financial services in the tech area. So, what was your stop moment, you
[03:58] SPEAKER_01: when you started, I wanted to become an entrepreneur. I kind of got you here.
[04:05] SPEAKER_03: Right, that's a great question. I think it was one of the moments where, you know, I kind of took
[04:11] SPEAKER_03: stock on my current situation. You know, I was, I mean, I was young. You know, I had some
[04:19] SPEAKER_03: one of an ability, and I figured, you know what, now is the best time to try to build something.
[04:24] SPEAKER_03: I'm not going to get another chance. I can't roll back the clock. Just move forward and try and build
[04:29] SPEAKER_03: something and kind of, you know, throw the dice. So, you know, just kind of taking that leap of
[04:35] SPEAKER_03: faith, just believing in yourself as much as you can and just going full out, you know, you can't
[04:42] SPEAKER_03: really tiptoe into it. You either take the plunger you don't. There's no, there's no middle ground
[04:48] SPEAKER_03: if you really want to do it. Unfortunately, there isn't. I mean, sure, there are some people who
[04:54] SPEAKER_03: can probably figure out how to make that happen, but I think for the majority of us, it's kind of an
[04:58] SPEAKER_01: all in play. So, you, you, you, you thought you wanted to be an entrepreneur, but, you know,
[05:06] SPEAKER_01: I had this approach called Stunton Focus XQ. I mean, you had to think about it before you made the
[05:12] SPEAKER_01: jump. So, what I'm trying to get, what I like to find out is what that thought process was
[05:18] SPEAKER_01: that sort of made you think, you know, I can jump off the high board and not kill myself.
[05:28] SPEAKER_03: Good analogy. You know, I think what it comes down to is believing in yourself. You know,
[05:42] SPEAKER_03: you know, at the end of the day, the way I saw it was, you know, you only have one real chance at
[05:47] SPEAKER_03: doing something like this. You know, and there's no better time than the present. Worse case scenario,
[05:53] SPEAKER_03: you know, you close up and you do something else. I mean, that's the worst case scenario. It's
[05:58] SPEAKER_03: really not that bad when you, you know, consider the prospect of going 10 years down the line and
[06:04] SPEAKER_03: then thinking, what if, you know, and that would be my biggest fear is, you know, sitting 10 years
[06:09] SPEAKER_03: down the line, not making this journey. And then, you know, telling my kids, well, I could have
[06:15] SPEAKER_03: done this or thinking, you know, why I should have done that. And, you know, that type of
[06:22] SPEAKER_03: thought process of kind of playing that scenario out, it was far scarier than trying it and not
[06:28] SPEAKER_03: having it work. So, I think that was part of the process. Other than that, it was just kind of
[06:35] SPEAKER_01: reactionary. So, sometimes you just, but why, you saw your, like, your tech head in the financial
[06:41] SPEAKER_03: services industry. Why digital marketing? So, it was something that I was dabbling in as well
[06:47] SPEAKER_03: as the time. There was a good friend of mine who had an accounting firm here in Hamilton.
[06:54] SPEAKER_03: And he was looking for help with a lot of his digital marketing. So, it was something that, you know,
[07:00] SPEAKER_03: naturally progressed and started working with him. And after getting his campaigns running,
[07:05] SPEAKER_03: he said, oh, man, you know what? You should do this for people. You're really good. My campaigns
[07:10] SPEAKER_03: are bringing me leads on closing business. Like, they can sales. We should really think about
[07:15] SPEAKER_03: doing this. And even to this day, you know, Richard, he's a, I would say, an advisor of mine.
[07:24] SPEAKER_03: He's installed his accounting practice and moved out less. And started a new accounting
[07:28] SPEAKER_03: practice. And even to this day, you know, we'll still connect. I was hope to see him this summer.
[07:35] SPEAKER_03: But yeah, it's definitely one of those things that you kind of, you get your, your
[07:40] SPEAKER_03: tablet went a little bit in that industry. And for me, I really enjoyed it. Being able to see
[07:45] SPEAKER_01: an impact, right? So, you found, you found this digital marketing thing that you were really good at.
[07:53] SPEAKER_01: Okay. And then, law and build four years later, you've done it so well that somebody bought you, okay.
[07:58] SPEAKER_01: What kind of focus did that take? Because, you know, I think we all know by execution, the
[08:07] SPEAKER_01: launch of a measure, you know, like, you know, there are already bunnies that keep going and going,
[08:12] SPEAKER_01: and going. But successful entrepreneurs, I think, focus before it. How did you get from like one
[08:20] SPEAKER_01: year to four years later? How did you maintain that focus? That's a great question.
[08:28] SPEAKER_03: You know, put your head down and staying as in tune with the industry as you can.
[08:34] SPEAKER_03: You know, I'm always reading. I'm always following up with things. I'm always checking
[08:38] SPEAKER_03: out what the latest and greatest is. But at the end of the day, you know, I was no stranger to
[08:43] SPEAKER_03: pulling, you know, 14, 15, 18 hour days in some cases, just to push forward. You know, it's
[08:49] SPEAKER_03: something that I really enjoyed. I'm not going to say it was always easy. Any entrepreneur,
[08:55] SPEAKER_03: or anybody who started their own business knows that that first little bit is a grind. It's not easy.
[09:02] SPEAKER_03: So, you know, it's just kind of keeping your eye on the big prize, knowing where you want to go.
[09:08] SPEAKER_03: And, you know, just kind of put your head down and getting with it.
[09:12] SPEAKER_01: So, everyone, the people think about being an entrepreneur and everyone, you've been worried
[09:18] SPEAKER_01: about how do I afford it. But did you need financing to start the company? How did you get from,
[09:24] SPEAKER_01: you know, A to S, if you like, in terms of what first stretch, you know, what's the being did you
[09:32] SPEAKER_01: did? We've self-funded. How did you manage that financially? Does councilors?
[09:39] SPEAKER_03: Of course. So, yeah, when I started the company, it was literally myself a laptop and I was
[09:47] SPEAKER_03: sitting on my living room couch. I self-funded everything from the beginning. And, you know,
[09:53] SPEAKER_03: started growing clients. As soon as we had revenues coming in, you know, you kind of work your cash flow
[09:58] SPEAKER_03: in that regard. So, a lot of the process I was doing the beginning was completely manual,
[10:03] SPEAKER_03: just because, you know, looking at automation or looking at more software was an expense that,
[10:09] SPEAKER_03: you know, at the time, was a little out of reach. You know, I was trying to operate the,
[10:13] SPEAKER_03: you know, string budget. Thankfully, we had clients come on board immediately, that cash flow that allowed
[10:20] SPEAKER_03: for, you know, investing into software, investing into our tools, and eventually it just continued to grow.
[10:27] SPEAKER_03: So, I was very fortunate that, you know, I was able to grow the company in kind of that organic fashion
[10:32] SPEAKER_03: of, you know, one client at a time building the cash flow up to finance the continued growth of the company.
[10:42] SPEAKER_01: So, now you've gone through that sort of first phase of entrepreneurship. You built something,
[10:49] SPEAKER_01: you've been unresolved. What typical day looked like for you now? I mean, how do you maintain
[10:56] SPEAKER_01: the kind of focus it needs to keep succeeding, but still on fund?
[11:02] SPEAKER_03: Well, I think my idea of fund is a little bit different than what
[11:05] SPEAKER_03: I, I typically wake up at about 5 a.m. And I have one heck of a commute right now. So,
[11:17] SPEAKER_03: I typically leave at 5.20 a.m. I'll leave my house. I'll get to the office shortly to 4.7.
[11:26] SPEAKER_03: And from 7 to 9 a.m., I take care of anything from, you know, like internal,
[11:31] SPEAKER_03: internal things or like invoicing or planning or if I have, you know, reviews or demos of software,
[11:38] SPEAKER_03: I'll take a look at anything that really isn't something that's a money maker that needs to be done
[11:42] SPEAKER_03: in the business or a new organization. You know, the exact type of tasks that I'm talking about,
[11:47] SPEAKER_03: the things that are available, right? So, that'll go up 9 a.m. till I would say noon.
[11:55] SPEAKER_03: I could be anywhere between, you know, client meetings running around the province. I could be
[12:00] SPEAKER_03: virtually meeting with clients. I could be in internal meetings or, you know, you know,
[12:07] SPEAKER_03: even just getting my hands down and dirty back into the basics of working on a campaign.
[12:13] SPEAKER_03: But afternoons typically are reserved more for the actual production work. So, I still am
[12:20] SPEAKER_03: quite hands on with some of our larger accounts, as well as very hands on the planning of campaigns
[12:28] SPEAKER_03: for existing clients and immediate prospects. So, I'm still kind of wearing all hats as we transition
[12:34] SPEAKER_03: over to the new company. But it's, you know, it's something that I really enjoy. So, I typically
[12:43] SPEAKER_03: wrap up here between 5 and 6 and then I head back to home and get home just before the kids go to bed
[12:53] SPEAKER_03: and rinse and repeat. So, my day is pretty full. And I like to just unwind,
[12:59] SPEAKER_03: spread it with the family. And, you know, my, I would say the way that I know fun is when the weather
[13:05] SPEAKER_03: is good and it's nice and warm out there, just try and do some fishing for a couple of hours,
[13:10] SPEAKER_01: reset myself and then I'm good to go. Good. So, you see your company expanding into other areas in
[13:18] SPEAKER_01: Canada or elsewhere, is it really the focus Hamilton, Toronto, Ontario kind of thing? Well, we are,
[13:25] SPEAKER_03: we are kind of an anchor here in the city. We want to be known as Hamilton's Agency.
[13:32] SPEAKER_03: So, a lot of the campaigns we work on, there's a lot of the clients we work with are very Hamilton
[13:38] SPEAKER_03: focused. And we love being a part of Hamilton. So, that's a special city. I think that, you know,
[13:45] SPEAKER_03: being born and raised here, you know, I've seen the city go through a major transition in the past
[13:52] SPEAKER_03: even 10 years. And it's exciting to be a part of it and it's exciting to see it happening.
[13:58] SPEAKER_03: You know, back 15 years ago, a lot of people joke about the city, they they caps in a negative light.
[14:03] SPEAKER_03: I mean, some people still do. But, you know, that time has come that people are certainly
[14:09] SPEAKER_03: take the city seriously and it's great to see that other people from outside of the region are
[14:14] SPEAKER_03: starting to see it as well. In terms of the business, we have clients all across North America
[14:21] SPEAKER_03: and operate campaigns across North America. So, you know, we are Hamilton focused. We do have
[14:28] SPEAKER_01: Nashors as well as North Korean folks. So, you talked about relaxing, you know, we do some of
[14:35] SPEAKER_01: our best work outside the office. And you talk about fishing. This is our place in Hamilton
[14:43] SPEAKER_01: or the general area, but close to the town and where you like to reach out, you know, get inspired.
[14:52] SPEAKER_03: Just think, you know, that kind of thing. Right. I think that as far as the fishing goes in the area,
[15:02] SPEAKER_03: I'm not too well versed. I typically had a head further up North, but
[15:07] SPEAKER_03: in terms of finding some time to think and just kind of reflect on, you know, maybe it was the day
[15:15] SPEAKER_03: or maybe it's the week, the month or whatever it is. You know, I spent a ridiculous amount of time
[15:22] SPEAKER_03: on the highways and, you know, a lot of people think that driving can be a waste of time. But if
[15:28] SPEAKER_03: you're if you're able to do it and able to reflect during that time, it can be a very powerful
[15:33] SPEAKER_03: means of self-reflection. So, I would say that either the QEW or the 401 would be that
[15:40] SPEAKER_01: I had the same thing. It's part of my reflective time on the cars. I kind of think that's a good point.
[15:48] SPEAKER_01: But the other thing is, I mean, you think entrepreneurs have to be weird or unique in a positive way.
[15:54] SPEAKER_01: Are they wired differently?
[15:58] SPEAKER_03: I think that you need to be more open-minded. People who are open-minded from what I can see in
[16:06] SPEAKER_03: the entrepreneur world follow more opportunities. You know, having hindsight is one of those things
[16:14] SPEAKER_03: where you can look back and see opportunity. Typically, opportunity doesn't look like opportunity
[16:20] SPEAKER_03: when you're faced with it. And I think that's a misconception that a lot of people have and,
[16:25] SPEAKER_03: being open-minded allows you to capture more of those opportunities or explore more of them
[16:31] SPEAKER_03: in order to make things happen. So, I think a lot of entrepreneurs are far more open-minded to
[16:38] SPEAKER_03: just kind of the normal type of person that is out there. That's not to say that
[16:46] SPEAKER_03: only open-minded people can become entrepreneurs. I think anybody can, but you just need to stay open-minded
[16:51] SPEAKER_03: and stay mindful and really understand yourself.
[16:57] SPEAKER_01: So, thinking of things, I mean, I know we're all busy, but what books are you reading now?
[17:03] SPEAKER_01: Even more listening to, I mean, but audio books especially in the car. I mean, I do tend to do that.
[17:09] SPEAKER_01: And if you're reading or listening, joining, can you recommend any to discuss this?
[17:15] SPEAKER_03: That's a great question. Typically, I'm on forums and reading blogs and that sort of thing in my
[17:23] SPEAKER_03: industry. So, in terms of recommending a book or anything like that, I wouldn't be able to do that.
[17:31] SPEAKER_03: If anybody wants a list of great resources for SEO or anything like that, I definitely have
[17:39] SPEAKER_03: my go-to list. So, I'm too more than happy to share that, but in terms of books, I'm not reading any
[17:45] SPEAKER_01: concurrently now. Okay. If you weren't doing what you do now, what would you like to do for a profession?
[17:57] SPEAKER_03: I always kind of joke about it, but I think it would be right on my alley. I think definitely a,
[18:06] SPEAKER_03: obviously not doing it for the money, but looking at being a fisherman, just something about when I'm
[18:11] SPEAKER_03: on the water, I mean, it's complete. I don't know, I just feel so comfortable. Regardless of how
[18:19] SPEAKER_03: choppy the water is and everything like that, I think that being a charter guide or something like
[18:26] SPEAKER_03: that would be right on my alley. So, what kind of job wouldn't you like to do?
[18:33] SPEAKER_03: Well, I don't think I would want to be in the tech support industry again. It's one of those things
[18:40] SPEAKER_03: that, you know, when everything's running fine and everything is going well, everybody kind of
[18:48] SPEAKER_03: looks at you and says, well, what are we paying you for? And then the moment that everything breaks
[18:52] SPEAKER_03: and you're fixing everything, everyone kind of looks at you and goes, what are we paying you for? So,
[18:57] SPEAKER_03: it's one of those thankless jobs that I don't think I would want to go back in that industry.
[19:03] SPEAKER_03: Maybe that's just my experience in it, but yeah, I would say that type of tech support gig. If
[19:09] SPEAKER_03: anybody's doing that, I mean, all the power to you, the total respect.
[19:15] SPEAKER_01: Okay, so if you're going back to words again, what's your favorite word in business, or quote,
[19:22] SPEAKER_01: or sentence that you like to use, the one that everyone gets fed up with you saying?
[19:31] SPEAKER_03: I'm sure there's some out there, but I don't think anybody's told me. What should a least favorite
[19:36] SPEAKER_03: word? It was probably my first word, no. For a number of reasons, I think, I think no, when you
[19:45] SPEAKER_03: when you use the word no to somebody, it can kill whatever momentum is there. And I mean,
[19:51] SPEAKER_03: it comes back to being open-minded. If you're not sure where something is going to go. So,
[19:56] SPEAKER_03: shutting somebody down or closing an opportunity before it even has a chance to to to bloom into
[20:02] SPEAKER_03: something, it's something we do every day. And I think that if we just take the time to listen a
[20:09] SPEAKER_03: little bit, it can make a big impact on, if you're trying to do your own business, make a big
[20:15] SPEAKER_03: impact on your business. If you work for somebody or you're working a job, you can make a big impact
[20:19] SPEAKER_03: in your career as well. So, I would say the word no. So sticking to the words, you know, when I,
[20:27] SPEAKER_01: my interest to this podcast is I call myself a business visionary, okay? If you have to pick one
[20:34] SPEAKER_01: or two words to describe yourself, what would they be and why? Well, that's a tough one.
[20:41] SPEAKER_03: You know, I'm not quite sure. I know a lot of people would say that I know
[20:48] SPEAKER_03: SEO expert or something along those lines. But at the end of the day, you know, I'm always,
[20:55] SPEAKER_03: always learning. So, you know, it's, I guess, a matter of perspective. I wouldn't really have
[21:01] SPEAKER_03: words that I would call myself right now other than, you know, somebody who's really working hard
[21:08] SPEAKER_03: to try and make a vision happen. You know, looking back at the path that I've came from, you know,
[21:17] SPEAKER_03: it's funny to look back and reflect. You know, you look back and you're like, wow, I've come a
[21:21] SPEAKER_03: long way. But then you look forward and you keep, you know, pushing forward and it doesn't feel like
[21:26] SPEAKER_03: you you're moving that much farther forward. So I don't want to really put myself into a position
[21:32] SPEAKER_03: of that. I'll leave that to to everyone else.
[21:36] SPEAKER_03: Right. Now I feel bad about being called a bit of a...
[21:44] SPEAKER_01: So what do we talk three things on your inspired lifeless? So, you mean, maybe fishing is one of them
[21:52] SPEAKER_01: based on what you were saying. But I mean, if you have to say what inspires Andrew, okay? What
[21:59] SPEAKER_01: would be three things that where you pull your inspiration from? Oh, and that's a that's a tough one.
[22:06] SPEAKER_01: Don't make it, it's not a difficult. I mean, just think, you know, you're a wife, you're kids.
[22:12] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think it's just the... The inspiration doesn't have to be, to be pretty simple,
[22:18] SPEAKER_03: the things that inspire you to do stuff. Yeah. I mean, of course, you know, the family is a huge
[22:25] SPEAKER_03: inspiration, but I think that just the presence of growing up in the city and that, you know,
[22:34] SPEAKER_03: coming from from the beginnings I came from, you know, I've always wanted to really push the
[22:39] SPEAKER_03: boundaries of what I'm able to do. So just kind of always keeping that in check in terms of
[22:46] SPEAKER_03: my own abilities, wanting to surpass and be the best to my standard. It's definitely something that
[22:55] SPEAKER_01: continues to drive me forward. So I wonder if you have any advice that you would want to pass on to
[23:01] SPEAKER_01: entrepreneurs? Might mean that one of the greatest piece of advice that I got given by somebody
[23:08] SPEAKER_01: when I was probably by your age just sort of moving into that entrepreneur's phase was, you know,
[23:17] SPEAKER_01: tidy desk, tidy mind because I used to have a desk that was like ridiculous. And it was a bad thing
[23:25] SPEAKER_01: and guess what? He was right. You know, I have a fairly ordered mind and my desk now looks the same,
[23:35] SPEAKER_01: you know. So it's I think like that that you think, you know, that you've found that other people
[23:44] SPEAKER_03: might find useful. Other than, you know, keeping an open mind and exploring your opportunities,
[23:50] SPEAKER_03: I think the most valuable piece would be to prepare for the worst day. Have a plan ready to execute
[23:59] SPEAKER_01: for your worst day. That's pretty cool. That's that's pretty cool. I like that. So this is one I ask
[24:06] SPEAKER_01: everyone and it's fun. So you might have heard of you, doesn't it? So there's a small tropical island
[24:12] SPEAKER_01: just off Fiji that only has one phone booth with no internet, which is pretty, pretty, at LH for you.
[24:21] SPEAKER_01: We drop you off there and you won't have a computer or a smartphone or tablet or anything like that.
[24:27] SPEAKER_01: You can use the phone booth located there anytime to call the boat and we'll come pick you up.
[24:33] SPEAKER_01: How long would you last before you made that call and what would you do there while you were there?
[24:39] SPEAKER_02: Okay, so it's just myself. You know, I'd probably take I'd probably take a good three days
[24:47] SPEAKER_03: just to unwind and soak in some sun. You know, working working in this area, you know, our sun seems
[24:55] SPEAKER_03: to set at three o'clock in the afternoon. So picking up some of that sunshine would be pretty nice.
[25:02] SPEAKER_03: I'd say enjoy some of the water and then you know, make the call and see if the boat will keep me out there
[25:08] SPEAKER_03: for an extra day to drop a line of water. So I think that's not going to be good. I wouldn't be too worried
[25:20] SPEAKER_03: about things, you know, back home. I know my wife is super woman. So, and you know, the team here
[25:28] SPEAKER_03: would be able to keep things on lock. So I'd feel pretty good about everything else.
[25:33] SPEAKER_01: Okay, well, listen, this has been great. And you know, how can our listeners get hold of you
[25:40] SPEAKER_01: if there's anything or if there's anything you'd like to add before we, you know, call it a day?
[25:47] SPEAKER_03: Yeah, of course. You can find me on LinkedIn. You can search for me. Andrew Novak.
[25:51] SPEAKER_03: You can also check out our website, thinker digital. So THINKR digital.com. And you can also
[25:59] SPEAKER_01: email me at edru at thinker digital.com. Is there any more you'd like to add before we call
[26:06] SPEAKER_03: Cuts today? Well, I just want to thank you for giving me a shout and having me on the program.
[26:13] SPEAKER_00: That's great, Andrew. Well, thank you very much. I really enjoyed it and everyone
[26:18] SPEAKER_00: I hope you enjoyed this again on the next and just podcast.