Amy Emberling’s radical ‘community of food business’ shares multi-million-dollar secrets on how to supersize your impact!

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[00:01] SPEAKER_01: Come to Lethbridge and join an innovative community for entrepreneurs.
[00:06] SPEAKER_01: With more than a quarter of the 100,000 population under the age of 34, Lethbridge brims with
[00:12] SPEAKER_01: energy.
[00:13] SPEAKER_01: We'll help you to kickstart, innovate, and grow.
[00:17] SPEAKER_01: We'll lethbridge.
[00:18] SPEAKER_01: Southern Alberta's help for innovation and technology.
[00:21] SPEAKER_01: It's the bright choice for business builders.
[00:24] SPEAKER_01: Go to chooselethbridge.ca slash entrepreneur and we'll help you move and grow in Lethbridge.
[00:32] SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Countless Podcasts.
[00:35] SPEAKER_00: The number one podcast for entrepreneurs by entrepreneurs.
[00:42] SPEAKER_02: An invasion of armies can be resisted, but not an idea whose time has come.
[00:48] SPEAKER_02: This quote by Victor Hugo, along with the line, Better Tomorrow Than Today, sets the scene
[00:53] SPEAKER_02: for today's podcast and the vision for the Zingermans community of businesses.
[00:58] SPEAKER_02: A little bit of a context in my quest to discover insights and provide some compelling solutions
[01:03] SPEAKER_02: for food security through food hubs.
[01:06] SPEAKER_02: I was actually quite dismayed that I couldn't easily find cases to report on.
[01:10] SPEAKER_02: And then I started wondering what was currently happening with Zingerlands, one of the most
[01:15] SPEAKER_02: compelling food-related business stories I've ever experienced.
[01:19] SPEAKER_02: And I discovered Canadian Amy Amberling is amongst the managing owners.
[01:25] SPEAKER_02: So Amy and I are joined coming together today, talking about how this radical community
[01:31] SPEAKER_02: food business shares their million dollar secret on how to supersize working tasks.
[01:38] SPEAKER_02: This is Angela Bay of Canada's podcast and founder of Future Bill, building and showcasing
[01:43] SPEAKER_02: properties, places, and village centers that are future.
[01:48] SPEAKER_02: So first of all, welcome Amy to Canada's podcast.
[01:52] SPEAKER_02: I can't hear.
[01:54] SPEAKER_02: Tell me a little bit about your Canadian roots.
[01:59] SPEAKER_03: Well, I grew up on Cape Breton Island. Have you ever been to Cape Breton?
[02:03] SPEAKER_02: I have, and it's funny because my mom grew up in Amherst.
[02:06] SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
[02:08] SPEAKER_03: I've got some maritime roots myself.
[02:11] SPEAKER_03: Oh, well great.
[02:12] SPEAKER_03: What should I grow up on Cape Breton?
[02:13] SPEAKER_03: My father's from Cape Breton and I lived there until I was 18 and then I left to go to college,
[02:19] SPEAKER_03: but my brother still lives there and my parents live in Halifax.
[02:24] SPEAKER_03: So I'm definitely Canadian.
[02:26] SPEAKER_03: I still get teased about my accent, so I think that that is proof that I have Canadian roots.
[02:32] SPEAKER_02: Absolutely, absolutely.
[02:34] SPEAKER_02: Well, and we are talking today again, and there's a reason why I say this radical community
[02:39] SPEAKER_02: of food business is that you're in the business of food.
[02:42] SPEAKER_02: But tell me a little bit about how food came to be a mainstay in what you do and what value
[02:50] SPEAKER_02: provide in the world.
[02:51] SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you know, it's pretty cool.
[02:53] SPEAKER_03: Well, sometimes I wish that my calling had been to be a hedge fund manager, but it wasn't.
[02:58] SPEAKER_03: I mean, I wonder, I just wish like, why did that happen to me?
[03:01] SPEAKER_03: But I have just always loved food.
[03:04] SPEAKER_03: And I did some really strange things when I was a kid, because when I was a kid,
[03:07] SPEAKER_03: I'll let you know we didn't have even microwaves until I was about 12.
[03:13] SPEAKER_03: So I was little, I found, I used to melt candy bars,
[03:17] SPEAKER_03: arrow bars, that proves that I'm Canadian, underneath the refrigerator.
[03:20] SPEAKER_03: Like how I figured that out, I don't really know.
[03:23] SPEAKER_03: I melted ice cream on our heater vents, because I thought it was better warm than cold.
[03:27] SPEAKER_03: So I was always into food, and I would make desserts.
[03:32] SPEAKER_03: So my family nickname was Baker Woman.
[03:35] SPEAKER_03: And after school, I watched the Galloping Gourmet, another
[03:39] SPEAKER_03: citizenship.
[03:43] SPEAKER_03: And then, so after I went to college, I honestly spent more time in restaurants than I did in
[03:49] SPEAKER_03: the library.
[03:50] SPEAKER_03: My parents may not have been thrilled, but I had a good time.
[03:53] SPEAKER_03: And then when I was done, I moved to Ann Arbor, where Zinger Mins is,
[03:57] SPEAKER_03: with my boyfriend at the time who has become my husband.
[03:59] SPEAKER_03: And I thought, I don't want to go to school.
[04:02] SPEAKER_03: I am just so tired of school.
[04:03] SPEAKER_03: I want to get a job in a restaurant.
[04:05] SPEAKER_03: And that was sort of the end for me.
[04:07] SPEAKER_03: And I decided that I would have a job in the hospitality field.
[04:11] SPEAKER_03: So I have a deep calling and interest in food.
[04:15] SPEAKER_03: But I also grew up in a family business.
[04:18] SPEAKER_03: And so I really also love business.
[04:21] SPEAKER_02: Well, and that is a perfect segue to sharing the first million dollar
[04:28] SPEAKER_02: secret to a super size or impact.
[04:33] SPEAKER_02: So first of all, you, you, the person and your purpose is really the number one asset to leverage.
[04:40] SPEAKER_02: It's been 90% of your time doing what you love and what you're good at.
[04:44] SPEAKER_02: And creating a super size.
[04:46] SPEAKER_02: Part of what I love about the Zinger Mins story goes back to the founders,
[04:50] SPEAKER_02: Arian Paul, who were convinced that focusing on what they loved and are good at.
[04:53] SPEAKER_02: And of course, everybody needs this food.
[04:56] SPEAKER_02: In a community that they love was more in line with their vision and scaling and maybe
[05:02] SPEAKER_02: homogenizing the deli taking it to multiple cities, you know,
[05:06] SPEAKER_02: the McDonald's or the McDonald's subway, you know, they were a deli.
[05:11] SPEAKER_02: So I guess my question for you is how do you leverage what you do, your purpose, your passion,
[05:19] SPEAKER_02: to contribute in a business?
[05:24] SPEAKER_03: Well, I mean, I think the biggest thing is that I'm in the right spot for me.
[05:31] SPEAKER_03: And I'm so excited about it that every day when I get up, I truly want to come into work
[05:37] SPEAKER_03: and continue to do the work that I love to do.
[05:40] SPEAKER_03: And because I have all of that energy, I have a lot to give to the other people that I'm working with.
[05:45] SPEAKER_03: Awesome.
[05:46] SPEAKER_03: I don't know how else to say it.
[05:48] SPEAKER_03: But if you can find the spot that really fits with your particular passion,
[05:53] SPEAKER_03: I think it's not possible not to leverage your energy.
[05:57] SPEAKER_02: And I think that's a great sort of, you know, energetically contributing, not just to yourself,
[06:02] SPEAKER_02: but to your clients, your community.
[06:05] SPEAKER_02: One thing I want to talk a little bit about
[06:09] SPEAKER_02: dingermans is and what makes it unique is you work there as an employee, but then you became a real owner.
[06:16] SPEAKER_03: Right.
[06:17] SPEAKER_03: So let's tell you one of the reasons that I'm here.
[06:19] SPEAKER_03: You know, sometimes people say, well, how did you get there?
[06:21] SPEAKER_03: And then I say, you know what that is in somewhat interesting question,
[06:24] SPEAKER_03: but I think the more interesting question is why am I still here?
[06:28] SPEAKER_03: And one of the reasons that I'm here is because of the business model that we have here at Dingerman.
[06:32] SPEAKER_03: So you kind of suggested that we don't replicate.
[06:36] SPEAKER_03: We don't, we're not franchising.
[06:38] SPEAKER_03: So let me, do we have time for me to tell you the story?
[06:40] SPEAKER_03: I would love to know.
[06:41] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, this is, yeah, absolutely.
[06:43] SPEAKER_03: So way back in 1982, these two guys, they were in their mid and late 20s.
[06:49] SPEAKER_03: They were kind of a little bit wild.
[06:50] SPEAKER_03: They met in some restaurants and they worked together and they had a good time together.
[06:55] SPEAKER_03: And they realized that they had a passion for Jewish-delly food.
[06:58] SPEAKER_03: And in an arbor at that time, they both had Jewish heritage and there were no delis.
[07:03] SPEAKER_03: So there was no place for them to go to eat.
[07:05] SPEAKER_03: And their names are Ari and Paul, as you already noted.
[07:07] SPEAKER_03: And they said, hey, let's get together and open up a delicate test.
[07:10] SPEAKER_03: So they did it.
[07:12] SPEAKER_03: And that that was 1982.
[07:14] SPEAKER_03: 10 years later, they felt like they had sort of achieved their vision.
[07:17] SPEAKER_03: Not that there wasn't more to do every single day at the deli, of course.
[07:21] SPEAKER_03: You know, the walk-in went down and someone didn't call in.
[07:24] SPEAKER_03: And there was a new olive oil to sell.
[07:26] SPEAKER_03: But essentially, the business was established.
[07:29] SPEAKER_03: So they said, well, how are we going to grow?
[07:31] SPEAKER_03: What are we going to do next?
[07:33] SPEAKER_03: And, you know, we have this really fortunate situation here in Ann Arbor,
[07:36] SPEAKER_03: where we have this fantastic university,
[07:38] SPEAKER_03: where there are 30,000 students every year.
[07:41] SPEAKER_03: And when they graduate, they leave town.
[07:43] SPEAKER_03: And then they say, hey, why don't you come and open up a deli in Chicago or in Arkansas,
[07:49] SPEAKER_03: or wherever they happen to have moved to.
[07:52] SPEAKER_03: And so Paul and Ari said, maybe we should just replicate and open up delis all over the country.
[07:57] SPEAKER_03: And they thought, you know, is that what I want to do?
[08:00] SPEAKER_03: And sort of getting back to that piece of my character,
[08:02] SPEAKER_03: the commitment that you spoke about.
[08:03] SPEAKER_03: And they said, no, that was not what they wanted to do.
[08:06] SPEAKER_03: They didn't want to spend their lives flying around and landing at, you know, store 45, store 47.
[08:13] SPEAKER_03: Now, not to say that that's not a good business model.
[08:16] SPEAKER_03: For the right person, that's a great business model.
[08:18] SPEAKER_03: We all know that financially, that can be a fantastic business model.
[08:22] SPEAKER_03: But what they cared about was making unique businesses and great businesses
[08:28] SPEAKER_03: and being connected to a community and providing opportunity for other people.
[08:33] SPEAKER_03: And so they developed what we refer to now in our organization is Vision 2009.
[08:39] SPEAKER_03: And in that vision, they said, let's create a community of businesses.
[08:43] SPEAKER_03: Each one being unique, each one with an owner in it, not just a VP,
[08:48] SPEAKER_03: you're not someone that they went out and hired.
[08:50] SPEAKER_03: But actually someone who came to them and said, I want to do this thing, this food thing.
[08:56] SPEAKER_03: And let's stay connected to the Ann Arbor community.
[08:59] SPEAKER_03: And so I had, as I said, I had moved to Ann Arbor.
[09:03] SPEAKER_03: I worked in some local restaurants.
[09:06] SPEAKER_03: I wasn't finding the spot that I really wanted to be in.
[09:09] SPEAKER_03: And then I saw Ari at Zingerman's Delicate Tesson.
[09:13] SPEAKER_03: And I don't know how I knew that it was Ari.
[09:16] SPEAKER_03: But he's a pretty distinctive looking guy.
[09:17] SPEAKER_03: He's about 65 and he's sort of unusual looking.
[09:20] SPEAKER_03: So somehow I knew who he was.
[09:21] SPEAKER_03: And it was like, you're the internet.
[09:23] SPEAKER_03: You know, there were no pictures on Instagram of Ari.
[09:26] SPEAKER_03: I don't know how I knew him.
[09:27] SPEAKER_03: I think back to those times, like, how did we know?
[09:29] SPEAKER_03: Anything.
[09:32] SPEAKER_03: I did.
[09:32] SPEAKER_03: So I went up to him.
[09:33] SPEAKER_03: I said, hey, where should I go and work?
[09:35] SPEAKER_03: I like, I love what you're doing here.
[09:36] SPEAKER_03: But I don't really want to make sandwiches.
[09:39] SPEAKER_03: I love them, but I don't want to do that.
[09:40] SPEAKER_03: Where should I go?
[09:41] SPEAKER_03: He said, oh, my friend Frank is opening up a bakery.
[09:44] SPEAKER_03: And so I, that was the second, the bake house is the second Zingerman's business.
[09:49] SPEAKER_03: And I went and I started to work at the bakery.
[09:52] SPEAKER_03: So I was there for four years and I loved it.
[09:55] SPEAKER_03: But my husband finished graduate school and we left town.
[09:57] SPEAKER_03: And so I left for four years.
[10:00] SPEAKER_03: And then as I, when I was away, I kind of realized what they were trying to do here.
[10:05] SPEAKER_03: I want to novel, radical place as you suggested.
[10:08] SPEAKER_03: And how it was a place where individuals, they really wanted you to say,
[10:12] SPEAKER_03: what is your vision?
[10:14] SPEAKER_03: What do you want to achieve and come back and we'll help you make it happen?
[10:18] SPEAKER_03: So that's why I'm here because it really supports people's personal development.
[10:23] SPEAKER_03: We really care about great service to each other, to the community, to our customers.
[10:28] SPEAKER_03: And we get to make really, really great food.
[10:31] SPEAKER_03: So doing all those things together is sort of why I'm here.
[10:33] SPEAKER_03: And that model of these unique businesses,
[10:37] SPEAKER_03: buying and selling between each other, but also cooperating, I think is really,
[10:42] SPEAKER_03: it's really creative, it's fascinating.
[10:45] SPEAKER_03: And it allows us to do some unusual things.
[10:48] SPEAKER_02: And I think you touched on some key themes, right?
[10:51] SPEAKER_02: Which is personal creativity, having the freedom to actually create your own thing
[10:59] SPEAKER_02: within the ecosystem is so critical.
[11:02] SPEAKER_02: And what to me stands out for the Zingerman story.
[11:05] SPEAKER_02: And you say, and also the buying and selling, let's just touch on that a little bit.
[11:09] SPEAKER_02: You made a great comment earlier, which is your own.
[11:14] SPEAKER_03: We are each other's customers.
[11:17] SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
[11:18] SPEAKER_03: I mean, you know, because we all know what our standards are, our standards of service,
[11:23] SPEAKER_03: our standards of food quality.
[11:25] SPEAKER_03: And so, you know, we keep each other on our toes.
[11:29] SPEAKER_03: And it's real buying and selling.
[11:31] SPEAKER_03: And you know what, if they, if Zingerman's Delhi doesn't like the ride bread that I'm making,
[11:36] SPEAKER_03: and they want to buy the ride bread from someone else, they can.
[11:40] SPEAKER_03: So it's a great market opportunity to be connected.
[11:44] SPEAKER_03: And the goal is to try to work together.
[11:46] SPEAKER_03: But if we're not doing our job, then we don't get the business.
[11:50] SPEAKER_02: So it keeps you on your toes for sure raising the bar constantly.
[11:55] SPEAKER_02: I love it.
[11:56] Speaker UNKNOWN: 
[11:57] SPEAKER_02: Well, and in all, you know, just to be fully authentic here, when I say it's their million dollar secrets,
[12:03] SPEAKER_02: I mean, at its peak, Zingerman's was at how many million?
[12:08] SPEAKER_03: And before the pandemic, we're at 65 million.
[12:12] SPEAKER_03: So we're about 10 businesses and 65 million dollars.
[12:15] SPEAKER_03: We've dropped a little bit now.
[12:16] SPEAKER_03: I say we're in the low 50s, but I'm confident that when this is over, we'll rebound back up.
[12:23] SPEAKER_03: And hopefully even more.
[12:25] SPEAKER_03: Well, and I want to touch up.
[12:26] SPEAKER_02: We've touched on it a little bit, but honestly, secret number two for 2021 and beyond,
[12:33] SPEAKER_02: to future fastest way to future proof your business portfolio is to stop focusing just on
[12:39] SPEAKER_02: network and start focusing on this evolutionary measure of now value, which I term relationship.
[12:47] SPEAKER_02: So I just want to dig a little bit deeper, Amy, if you could, on how does Zingerman team really,
[12:54] SPEAKER_02: like the actual functionality, both the mindset and the functionality of how you tap into collaboration,
[13:00] SPEAKER_02: relationships in your community, within your group of business.
[13:03] SPEAKER_02: Can you just elaborate a little bit more for us?
[13:06] SPEAKER_03: Sure. So one of the things about the home model is that we are staying in Ann Arbor.
[13:10] SPEAKER_03: So it wasn't just not replicating, but staying in the town.
[13:14] SPEAKER_03: So we, you know, we have intimate relations, safe, but intimate relationships with all of our
[13:22] SPEAKER_03: customers and lots of nonprofits in the whole community. I mean, we're constantly involved in
[13:29] SPEAKER_03: each other's support. Now, within the organization, we're partners. So I mean, we all have
[13:35] SPEAKER_03: separate businesses and they're not owned by anyone other than the, you know, the founders and
[13:40] SPEAKER_03: maybe a partner in the business, but we still collaborate and act as if we're partners. So every
[13:45] SPEAKER_03: two weeks, all the partners, like all the businesses get together and we have meetings and sort of make
[13:50] SPEAKER_03: big picture decisions for the entire organization. So there's a lot of collaboration and creative
[13:57] SPEAKER_03: creative work that happens there. But, you know, one thing that this pandemic show that is,
[14:02] SPEAKER_03: it's just been invaluable to have sort of the diversity of businesses and hold these
[14:08] SPEAKER_03: businesses. It really made us much more resilient because some of us are doing really, really
[14:13] SPEAKER_03: well right now. We have an online mail order business. As we all know, that's the business to be in
[14:19] SPEAKER_03: these days. And so they are helping those of us who are artists and producers, sort of the
[14:23] SPEAKER_03: whole sailors because they're buying a lot of our product. And then we have some restaurants that
[14:28] SPEAKER_03: are not doing so well. But thankfully, those of us who are doing well, we can be there to kind of
[14:33] SPEAKER_03: support the rest of the organization both financially and quite just sort of emotionally being
[14:39] SPEAKER_03: available to the other partners. So having those cooperative relationships has been essential
[14:46] SPEAKER_02: in the last year. And so really collaboration is key. And you skip, you touched on it, but I want
[14:53] SPEAKER_02: to go back to it because I think this is something that is easy to skip by, but you mentioned the
[14:59] SPEAKER_02: nonprofit is and I'm sure I've seen somewhere in the Zingerman story that you contribute an
[15:05] SPEAKER_03: ex amount of food products to, you know, outside of your business. Right. Well, actually, we have
[15:14] SPEAKER_03: agreed as partners and everybody contributes 10% of their net operating profit in donations
[15:19] SPEAKER_03: every year. And it's a combination of cash and food because of course, some people really want food.
[15:26] SPEAKER_03: Yeah, they're having a lot of meetings or big events or fundraisers or fundraisers and they want
[15:30] SPEAKER_03: to have food. So we send food. But some people, you know, they need cash to run their organizations.
[15:35] SPEAKER_03: Not everything is about the food, right? So we also contribute in the form of cash. Now Zingerman's
[15:44] SPEAKER_03: also started a one of the first food rescue organizations in our country and that's called
[15:53] SPEAKER_03: Food Gatherers. So we wanted to find a way to contribute to the community in that respect also.
[16:00] SPEAKER_02: Well, and to me, so can you just expand a little bit on what is food gatherers? Well, food gatherers
[16:07] SPEAKER_03: is an organization that collects food from primarily grocery stores now that they were not going
[16:14] SPEAKER_03: to sell anymore. And then we distributed to people who are in need in terms of our food insecure.
[16:22] SPEAKER_03: And now it's a it's a it's you know, a much bigger organization than anything we ever imagined
[16:27] SPEAKER_03: in this independent sonnet on its own and has its own very large budget, you know, lots of brands
[16:32] SPEAKER_03: and government support. And it serves all a large part of Michigan. So it's really a it's become
[16:38] SPEAKER_01: way to success. Tech Connect, a center for entrepreneurship and innovation and left bridge,
[16:45] SPEAKER_01: has been spring-blooding entrepreneurs to success for 10 years and counting. Our spirit of innovation
[16:51] SPEAKER_01: is a way of life. We have an incredible environment. Our innovators are not afraid to stand apart
[16:58] SPEAKER_01: because they know that in Westbridge we are brighter together. We are left bridge. Come and join us,
[17:06] SPEAKER_01: go to chooseleafbridge.ca slash entrepreneur and we'll help you move and grow in left bridge.
[17:13] SPEAKER_02: Million dollar secret number three to supersize your impact is leveraging this one valuable formula
[17:21] SPEAKER_02: can make you the most sought after and I say really stayed in town, which is villages are the
[17:27] SPEAKER_02: evolution of community living. The thing that keeps coming up in the Zingermans story and I guess your
[17:33] SPEAKER_02: contribution to the Zingermans story is that the ecosystem, the evolution of people living and
[17:40] SPEAKER_02: sharing and cooperating and supporting each other in good times and bad times really to me is you're
[17:47] SPEAKER_03: almost like a little village. Absolutely. It's like a little world and you know when I was in college,
[17:54] SPEAKER_03: I mean one of the reasons I love being a part of this organization is because you do get to
[17:59] SPEAKER_03: do good things or live with purpose and you know as I told you I grew up on Cape Retin Island as
[18:05] SPEAKER_03: many Canadians probably know it's not the most prosperous part of Canada. Probably one of the least
[18:10] SPEAKER_03: prosperous parts of Canada and I knew very well what it was like to live in a economically
[18:16] SPEAKER_03: struggling community and it's been a very big interest of mine to provide economic development.
[18:22] SPEAKER_03: My brother actually lives in Cape Retin and does economic development. My sister ended up
[18:27] SPEAKER_03: going to Africa and doing economic development and so even though I'm in a for-profit business,
[18:33] SPEAKER_03: a lot of what we do is about trying to provide opportunity for people in our community.
[18:40] SPEAKER_03: So you know when I went to college I studied American social movements and one of the areas that I
[18:47] SPEAKER_03: studied were sort of utopian early American communities and I'd have to say that for Zingermans,
[18:53] SPEAKER_03: we really I really remind we every day of like a little created utopian community because we're
[18:59] SPEAKER_03: trying to create the world that we really that we really won't want to live in and then we're trying
[19:05] SPEAKER_03: to share what we've learned so that if anyone else wants to create their own community adapted to
[19:12] SPEAKER_03: their environment, their you know core business, maybe it's not food who knows what it is that they
[19:18] SPEAKER_02: could possibly do that. And I love how you described it as saying you've created your own little
[19:27] SPEAKER_02: utopia, I hate to say food related utopia in this beautiful community of Ann Arbor and then
[19:34] SPEAKER_02: you are sharing everything that you've learned at all of your knowledge with the world. So I just
[19:40] SPEAKER_02: wanted to talk about a little bit about can you, the Zingermans experience right? It is way more
[19:46] SPEAKER_02: than just a little for granted and things like that. Can you tell me a little bit about the physical
[19:51] SPEAKER_02: bricks and mortar operties that are owned in Zermans? Does everybody have a physical bricks and
[19:57] SPEAKER_03: mortar to walk into and experience? Everybody does. Even our Zingermaler business has their own
[20:07] SPEAKER_03: little funny little shop and they do these warehouse sales so they do too. So let me describe
[20:11] SPEAKER_03: we're all over Ann Arbor. Ann Arbor is a pretty small town, it's about 150,000 people, but it goes
[20:17] SPEAKER_03: down to about 110,000 when this university is not in. I don't know exactly what the how many square
[20:25] SPEAKER_03: miles it is, but it's not very big. However, we're all over the city. So our flagship store is
[20:35] SPEAKER_03: Zingermans Delecateson. It was the first one. It's in what's considered the old Carvan Arbor,
[20:40] SPEAKER_03: which I think is kind of funny because Ann Arbor is not very old, but whatever.
[20:45] SPEAKER_03: And there is a cobbled street in front of it and it's an old grocery store and it's a really
[20:51] SPEAKER_03: funky fun building. And if anyone goes online to ZingermansDele.com or Zingermans.com, you'll see that
[20:58] SPEAKER_03: we have a really big visual presence. We have a very distinct of book and feel that wasn't
[21:03] SPEAKER_03: developing at agency. It was just developed over time by people who were working in the organization.
[21:09] SPEAKER_03: And now we do have rules to follow about it, but it was created completely organically.
[21:15] SPEAKER_03: So the Delec has all of that look and feel and it's kind of tight and cramped and bustling a little
[21:21] SPEAKER_03: bit like a New York place. And then you come to what we now call Zingermans Southside. And,
[21:27] SPEAKER_03: Angela, you may not even know about Zingermans Southside, but the bakery opened in 1992. And we're in
[21:39] SPEAKER_03: light manufacturing and we wanted to be close to the highway. But now Zingermans Baycows is here,
[21:47] SPEAKER_03: Zingermans Creamery is here, Zingermans Coffee Company and Roasting Company is here, Zingermans
[21:52] SPEAKER_03: Candy is here, and Zing Train, our company that teaches about our business practices,
[21:56] SPEAKER_03: we're all in this little neighborhood. And it's like this little gem. You wouldn't think that
[22:02] SPEAKER_03: it was there. And all of a sudden you turned down one of these driveways and there are all these
[22:06] SPEAKER_03: funky little businesses. So you can come to the producers, go into our tiny retail shops and
[22:12] SPEAKER_03: each shop there's a window into our production so you can see all the food being made. And then if
[22:17] SPEAKER_03: you drive about five minutes away you get to Zingermans Mailorder, which is in another warehouse
[22:22] SPEAKER_03: district and they have all these kind of, they have all these planters outside. It's sort of a fun
[22:28] SPEAKER_03: and unusual looking place. You're like, what is this that's in these buildings? But they're there
[22:33] SPEAKER_03: and they're an incredible business. And then we can drive 20 minutes out of town. That's the farthest
[22:39] SPEAKER_03: of that any of our businesses away. Does Zingermans Corn Man farm? And that is a really beautiful
[22:45] SPEAKER_03: wedding and event space on an old market where it's again relatively new business. On the west side
[22:51] SPEAKER_03: of Anomer and Arbor Zingermans Roadhouse, which is an all-American sit-down restaurant near the
[22:57] SPEAKER_03: Delhi, there's Miss Cam. I mean, so there are all these little businesses each that look unique
[23:02] SPEAKER_03: but have some of the Zingermans look and feel in them. And then a lot of, you know,
[23:07] SPEAKER_03: people being themselves and service roles, you meet a lot of characters when you come into our shop,
[23:12] SPEAKER_03: you get a sense of the place being kind of connected and the same, but each place also has a
[23:17] SPEAKER_03: slight different kind of feel and culture to it. Very cool. Question about the destination and Arbor.
[23:25] SPEAKER_02: And how Zingermans, we talked about the physical geography a little bit. How and why do you think
[23:32] SPEAKER_02: Zingermans becoming an institution there? What was the uniqueness about the geography that
[23:38] SPEAKER_03: is critical to the business success? You know, we talked about Tehrwar in wine and we talk about it
[23:45] SPEAKER_03: here also in sort of how we became who we are because of where we are. And I think a lot of it
[23:53] SPEAKER_03: has to do with being in a university town with that which has a lot of people coming and going.
[23:59] SPEAKER_03: So a lot of creativity and innovation because of that and a lot of ideas and conversation. And also
[24:05] SPEAKER_03: a pretty large international community. So people wanting their own, you know, in the food world,
[24:11] SPEAKER_03: wanting their own food, asking for their own food, making their own food and meeting those
[24:16] SPEAKER_03: ingredients. So I think all of that together kind of allowed us to be who we are. I mean, I think we're
[24:21] SPEAKER_03: kind of, you know, I wouldn't say nerdy, but slightly intellectual food people in a way or,
[24:30] SPEAKER_03: you know, really hung up on process and culture and the history of the food. We're very wordy.
[24:38] SPEAKER_03: If you look at a lot of our materials, they're long, they're in depth. And I think that's possible
[24:43] SPEAKER_03: because of where we are. And that's one of the reasons Polar I didn't want to move around.
[24:49] SPEAKER_03: That I don't think that we would be who we are if we were transplanted into another place.
[24:55] SPEAKER_03: We might be something just as wonderful as there are incredible places as we know all over the world,
[25:01] SPEAKER_03: all over North America, but it would be different. And so they thought we like who we are. Let's be
[25:07] SPEAKER_03: who we are in this town. Just one other point that I want to bring up because our world is
[25:15] SPEAKER_03: sensitive to this now. Another reason we don't kind of want to expand into other areas is that we've
[25:20] SPEAKER_03: talked a lot about it being sort of like colonizing. You know, we to move into this other community.
[25:27] SPEAKER_03: We don't know that community. And it feels like, you know, for us to come in and tell them what
[25:33] SPEAKER_03: they should eat or how, you know, what kind of business they should be doing with us in their
[25:39] SPEAKER_03: community just doesn't feel right to us. We would rather teach people what we're doing if they
[25:44] SPEAKER_03: want to learn it and allow them to kind of develop the sorts of businesses that fit in their world.
[25:52] SPEAKER_02: Well, that's a perfect segue. I mean, I'm a classic, you know, we wanted to, one of our goals today
[25:56] SPEAKER_02: was, you know, infuse a desire to visit zingermans. And ironically, or I guess part of the story is,
[26:04] SPEAKER_02: you know, I've never been to Ann order, but I feel like I'm a zingerman's champion, right? And
[26:10] SPEAKER_02: it came from when I had a guest house and was imagining a similar sort of, you know, community of
[26:17] SPEAKER_02: businesses drawing on a shared cause, right? And really contributing back to community. That's
[26:25] SPEAKER_02: where I found out about zingermans, but I've been a zingerman's champion for a long, long time.
[26:30] SPEAKER_02: And today, and yet I've never been, so I've never experienced the physical bricks in order,
[26:35] SPEAKER_02: but I definitely am a champion. And two is also, I'm very aware of how you share your knowledge.
[26:44] SPEAKER_02: So something I want, you know, that I'd love to listen, that we would love to partake in is,
[26:50] SPEAKER_02: how can we connect with zingermans now? When we know that we share a similar vision,
[26:55] SPEAKER_02: we share similar values to you, Amy, and your crew is, um, what's a good way to connect with you
[27:03] SPEAKER_03: now in this digital world? Wow, I gotta tell you, if there's any time that it would be easy to
[27:09] SPEAKER_03: connect with us, uh, virtually, this is the time because we are all now doing all kinds of the
[27:15] SPEAKER_03: things that we do, but online. So I think it's really pretty easy. So zing train for all of the
[27:22] SPEAKER_03: business people who are listening to this. If you're interested, are you, are inspired by what
[27:26] SPEAKER_03: I'm talking about or curious, you can go to zing train.com and you see that they have all these
[27:31] SPEAKER_03: seminars and they are short ones and long ones, um, that you can participate in. And we just share
[27:37] SPEAKER_03: what we do in the hopes that if there's something that sounds appealing to you, you can adapt it and
[27:42] SPEAKER_03: use it. Or if you want to enjoy our, um, our food or learn about, you know, how to cook some of what
[27:49] SPEAKER_03: we're doing at, uh, Bayquat zing.com. We have about 12 different classes on every single week.
[27:56] SPEAKER_03: Zoom is dealt with the test and you can go to their website and you'll see that they're doing
[28:00] SPEAKER_03: tastings. Uh, it's hard to ship food to Canada. They are companies are shipping food to, you know,
[28:07] SPEAKER_03: connect tastings, but I'm not quite sure it will make it. So I'm not sure I'd recommend that. But
[28:12] SPEAKER_03: there are, and then I just, one last thing that, uh, are rewinds wide has written many, many books
[28:18] SPEAKER_03: that really outline how we do our business. So for some of you who would prefer to read, if you go to
[28:24] SPEAKER_03: zingerman's press, you'll see the books that are, he has written. So you are well and truly a, uh,
[28:31] SPEAKER_02: an ecosystem around, you know, leveraging food as a cause, but the business of food. And, um,
[28:40] SPEAKER_02: I just, one thing I would, I'm curious about just, just, I guess pragmatically is
[28:46] SPEAKER_02: today with a little bit of drop in, in, you know, we're probably at about 52 million would be the,
[28:52] SPEAKER_02: sort of, sales of zingerman's right now. How much of that would be attributed to online?
[28:59] SPEAKER_03: They are estimating to do about 22 million dollars of sales. So they are, they have been at about
[29:07] SPEAKER_03: 17 million. And now in their typical annual. So they have gone up, um, tremendously. And,
[29:15] SPEAKER_03: you know, they're taking up a lot of the, what we're, we've lost in the restaurants because they
[29:21] SPEAKER_02: can't be open at full capacity. And so really a takeaway for me is that in order, I mean, you've
[29:27] SPEAKER_02: started pre, pre economic crisis of 2008, pre global pandemic, you demonstrated resiliency through
[29:36] SPEAKER_02: all of that. Uh, ecosystem thinking is definitely a key to, uh, resiliency in business,
[29:43] SPEAKER_02: but also that going forward to be future-proofed, you need to be online, right? You've been a big chunk
[29:50] SPEAKER_02: of businesses likely going to come from, of your champions, your advocates, your, your buyers,
[29:58] SPEAKER_02: your stakeholders, uh, maybe your next business owners, talking about 2032, you have a plan.
[30:04] SPEAKER_03: Right. You want to touch on that just quickly? Well, you know, we, we, um, we really care about
[30:12] SPEAKER_03: resiliency and we think that diversity is a big part of that. And also, you know, Ann Arbor can only
[30:17] SPEAKER_03: take so many food places. And there are many people now who are doing things not related to
[30:24] SPEAKER_03: zingermen's that are wonderful food, um, places. And so we, and we have people who are working with us
[30:30] SPEAKER_03: to have other passions that's not about food. And they want to open up other kinds of businesses.
[30:35] SPEAKER_03: So we just launched our vision of 2032. And in that it says that we've expanded into non-food
[30:41] SPEAKER_03: businesses. So I don't know what the first one will be, um, but we will, uh, we'll see. And, uh,
[30:48] SPEAKER_02: you'll be exciting. And so the best way to connect with you is likely, I do, I mean, are you ever a
[30:54] SPEAKER_02: teacher yourself on the baking school? Do you still get to do what you love every day?
[30:58] SPEAKER_03: I do. And sometimes I'm actually also with, uh, working with Singtrain. So,
[31:03] SPEAKER_02: very good. Is there any other way that we can connect with you, Amy Post, post podcast?
[31:09] SPEAKER_03: Sure. I mean, I am happy to, uh, communicate with anybody. So you can just email me at
[31:16] SPEAKER_02: aemberlingem.org at zingermens.com. Well, from these two maritime in our blood girls.
[31:28] SPEAKER_02: Yeah. My mom grew up in Amherst, Nova Scotia. So from Am, from Nova Scotia,
[31:32] SPEAKER_02: root to, you know, the future of, uh, ecosystems and business, I just want to say thank you for
[31:39] SPEAKER_02: joining us on Canada's podcast. Amy, you're so inspiring. Thank you for joining us. I know it's
[31:43] SPEAKER_02: a bit of a stretch being an N-arbor, but I love, love that you were able to make time for us.
[31:48] SPEAKER_03: Thank you, Angela. It was really fun. I was thrilled to have the invitation. And, you know,
[31:53] SPEAKER_03: Ann Arbor's not very far from Windsor. It's so true. It's so true. And what's going on in the United
[31:59] SPEAKER_03: States? Who knows? Maybe Michigan will be part of Canada someday. All right. Thanks for joining us.
[32:06] SPEAKER_01: Bye, Amy. Thank you. Bye, bye.
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